Topic: Castlevania LoD 2D homebrew anyone?

[Archdemon]

As of now, I am conceptualizing a homebrew project, specifically: a remake of LoD in 2D.
This doesn't quite mean "What would LoD ~look~ like in 2D?" but rather "What would LoD be like had it been ~developed~ in 2D?"

Keeping this in mind, I get the impression that since LoD was developed after SotN, and if, say, the developers hadn't had to cope with a new 3D setting, the game could have been kind of similar to SotN in some ways, perhaps retaining the RPG-ism, the metroidvania levels (as opposed to LoD's more linear levels), and the smooth controls.

The fighting system might have been more complex. I might eventually take some liberties with the design, and implement a number of features such as a 'move combo' system. I thought that it might be different to have a castlevania game sporting a fighting-game styled combat system.
Initially, I want to focus on improving the aspects which received more criticism.

This project does not imply that I also am a critic of the original LoD. I am, in fact, a fan of both N64 titles, and to me they are like works of art. I, however, see tons of potential in the games, so I think they deserve a remake.

I'll be using this thread as a hub for any ideas, which will be added to the list below:

General Ideas
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-make the stories slightly more involved and less cheesy.
-last subweapon stays on the stage for a little while. The game remembers what lvl each subweapon was, unless you die. also, if you save, it still remembers.
-cornell's transformation will be cooler and more effective. It will be able to be toggled. the other characters will have item crashes or something.
-increase the number of day/night puzzles, and make it like CV2 where stronger monsters come out at night.
-cornell's village when he comes back from training, as a playable level.
-enemy health bars
-kojima's drawing style (currently teaching self...), pics needed (a lot!):

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

You could ask Darkmoon at the Inverted Dungeon/CVRPG.
He could give you hosting if you're doing Castlevania-related stuff.

You can find his site at www.inverteddungeon.com
or www.cvrpg.com

[Reinhart77]

How do you envision Cornell's basic moves?  Would he use the ranged claw attack, how far would it go?  There could also be more melee moves for him like in the LoD town intro.  And then of course there's the claw slash and the moves he has in Judgment.  Basically, which of those moves would you assign the normal "attack" button to, and how would the other ones come into play if at all?

[Archdemon]

ok, thanks, i'll look into that, but first i better get a good concept going.

How do you envision Cornell's basic moves?  Would he use the ranged claw attack, how far would it go?  There could also be more melee moves for him like in the LoD town intro.  And then of course there's the claw slash and the moves he has in Judgment.  Basically, which of those moves would you assign the normal "attack" button to, and how would the other ones come into play if at all?

well i'm thinking about making the fighting system more complex, so i think i'll allow for combos.
the basic fighting controls will be split into the primary and secondary attacks like in LoD, a slower, strong, ranged primary attack and a faster, weaker, short range secondary attack, and you use the two controls in a certain sequence to utilize different combos (of about 5 moves), each of which will have a different finishing move which can be drawn from the moves in judgement or whateva, how does that sound?
 this way, it will also give the game a fighting system similar to that of some simple fighting games. i think thats a good thing, because there isn't really much to be built on in the ways of fighting systems in this game, since there are no spellbooks, or souls, or ds cards, etc.
the ranged claw attack will probably go as far as reinhart's whip maybe? it will be cornell's primary attack as in LoD. his secondary attack will be his claw slash (which is his 'secondary' attack in LoD), but when you press a certain sequence of these moves, he will execute different things, like kicks, punches, etc.
in addition to that, there will be the unique toggled move, (cornell's will be the beast-form), reinhart's could be maybe imbuing the whip with some element? i need some ideas here...and there will also be the subweapons.
so, all in all there are no big changes to the controls other than the move combo system. there are still only four buttons to use: primary, secondary, subweapon, special toggled move.
i'm also thinking that the 'upgradeable subweapons' system from LoD can be improved on (as in, the more subweapons you collect, the stronger they are). i find a flaw with that system, being that if you get a large number of one subweapon, then decide you want to use a different subweapon, then you have to start collecting all over again. can anyone think of a way to improve this?

i'm also thinking about retaining the LoD's 'interact' control, so when you run into items or doors or levers, they don't get picked up, or don't open automatically, or get activated.

i haven't actually played judgement yet, i might watch some vids or something of it, so i can get some combo ideas.

[uzo]

so i think i'll allow for combos.

I believe some of LoD's charm, and a reason some people like it, is that it was simple one hit moves that were reminiscent of 2D Castlevania.

I would be weary to tamper with that aspect of the game.

[Aridale]

For some reason I thought this was 2D LoI...

[Archdemon]

I believe some of LoD's charm, and a reason some people like it, is that it was simple one hit moves that were reminiscent of 2D Castlevania.

I would be weary to tamper with that aspect of the game.

hm, yeah you've got a point there, well then first i'll just make it as similar to the original as possible; then i might deviate and play around with the systems a bit.
its going to be a 2d remake of the game, but i also want to add something more to it.
if, say, i didn't add this proposed move combo system, what else could i implement into the game, if anything at all, that would make it more interesting? or is it really that necessary?

[uzo]

I think transitioning the game into 2D is quite enough change in itself.

I believe it would be interesting if you adopted the DX movement style for this game. You cant move back in the air much anyway in CV64.

[Archdemon]

I think transitioning the game into 2D is quite enough change in itself.

I believe it would be interesting if you adopted the DX movement style for this game. You cant move back in the air much anyway in CV64.

you have a point there, and the characters walk with stiff movements as well.
however, another point to note is that LoD and 64 came out after SotN, where the awkward controls had been fixed. if I keep to my original question, you could presume that the games would have been rather like SotN in style, had they been 2d. this also means that a lot of LoD's systems would have been far more complex, much like SotN. I mean, in LoD, they didn't retain SotN's rpg aspect at all, they didn't have equippable accessories and weapons etc, and the levels were linear. I'm presuming, that they thought the transition to 3d was enough to deal with, let alone making it like SotN. if this hadn't have been the case though, they would have improved certain things such as making the levels more metroidvania-styled, and adding random features, such as bossrushes etc.

so, really the question 'what if LoD had been 2D?' does not really mean 'what would LoD look like as a 2D game, retaining all its original characteristics', but rather 'what would LoD have turned out like, had it been developed in 2D instead of 3D?'

[uzo]

Ah, I see what you mean there. There is a lot of room for leeway there. Including bringing back hearts

[Aridale]

I got a relatively barebones engine for GM6 if ya need a jumpin point

[fallenangel86]

The way it was setup, I would have figured it makes more sense to make a platformer out of it. Then again, with those stages with the stores, I suppose I could see where the current direction of the series might sound like a better idea.

[Archdemon]

sorry, guys, i haven't been active for a couple of days, study<<< bleh.

Ah, I see what you mean there. There is a lot of room for leeway there. Including bringing back hearts

so you think i should bring the hearts back? i'll consider that, however i find them just a little bit random, and they could be detrimental to LoD's horror-ish atmosphere.

I got a relatively barebones engine for GM6 if ya need a jumpin point

cheers man, i did make my own platform engine in GM7, but if your engine is more castlevania-geared, then i'll have a look at it. thanks a heap. ah, this brings me back to something i've been contemplating: how to go about actually making the game. i have two options in mind.
-i can use GM7 proficiently, but i'm concerned about gfx features and speed.
-i could use another 2d engine (perhaps with 3d capabilities like the SotN engine) which could perhaps be faster, more compatible, and have more features. 2 i can think of are allegro and HGE. both use c++, which is my language of choice.

The way it was setup, I would have figured it makes more sense to make a platformer out of it. Then again, with those stages with the stores, I suppose I could see where the current direction of the series might sound like a better idea.

yeah, i know what you mean, but i think it will be okay, since the layout of the LoD world isn't really metroidvania, its more like CV2 where there is no real central 'hub', so i think making it a challenge to try and find the store in each level would be something to build on maybe.


ok, i've got another point for discussion: certain levels such as the maze level, would be hard to redesign in 2d. As for the maze, I could perhaps make the maze have layers, but that sounds a bit weird for a hedge maze, or i could make kind of passages and doors which you can travel into, by pressing the interact button. this comes to yet another question: should i keep the linear passage structure of other castlevania games (i.e. entrance at either end of the passage), or should i have doors inside the level (in the background) which you can walk through?

[uzo]

I found the Abandoned Mine creepy as shit, despite that hearts still came out of the candles.

As for doors, and such. I believe it would be fine to add in background doors, much like Castlevania 2 did, and OoE did in the village. In fact, I would encourage it to be done.

[Archdemon]

I found the Abandoned Mine creepy as shit, despite that hearts still came out of the candles.

As for doors, and such. I believe it would be fine to add in background doors, much like Castlevania 2 did, and OoE did in the village. In fact, I would encourage it to be done.

ok, are there any more reasons why you'd prefer the hearts over crystals?

ok, thanks, i'll add background doors to the list.