Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Flame]

That was a chance event where it followed Dracula through the portal.

Its overall purpose is to show us it isn't just a hallucinations or something.  A fact later cemented by the second acolyte encounter

[darkwzrd4]

That was a chance event where it followed Dracula through the portal.

Its overall purpose is to show us it isn't just a hallucinations or something.  A fact later cemented by the second acolyte encounter

Yeah, that surprised me. I kept thinking that when you went to the castle, you were going back in time. But, that wasn't the case at all. The castle seems to exist in some form in it's own dimension.

And, also like Flame said, the city enemies were too generic. Mutated humans who all looked the same except for their weapons. Again, as Flame said, why couldn't there be some variety in the mutations. Given that no one has the exact same body chemistry, I would think that the gas would effect people in different ways giving them different appearances and abilities.

It was like MS half-assed the city parts. The castle, at least, was done right. It had a variety of enemies placed in areas that made sense and it actually felt like a CV when in the castle. Too bad MS didn't make the city sections feel the same way.

[Claimh Solais]

It was like MS half-assed the city parts. The castle, at least, was done right. It had a variety of enemies placed in areas that made sense and it actually felt like a CV when in the castle. Too bad MS didn't make the city sections feel the same way.

^Pretty much this. To me, the game felt like 1/2 Castlevania, 1/4 half-assed Metal Gear, and 3/4 half-assed Darksiders II.

The Revelations DLC, though? That was pretty damn awesome. I enjoyed the hell outta that.

[Anglachel]

I had expected the city to be slowly overrun by classic enemies after Dracula woke up. Wargs, mermen, minotaurs, werewolves, and lesser demons would swarm the streets, killing humanity all over the earth. It's too bad we didn't see more of the world outside of the city.

I think the castle was done well, but I have a craving for a bigger castle. I mean, monstrous. Of course, hardware limitations get in the way...but just imagine a SOTN style castle done in sprawling 3D. Imagine the Alchemy Laboratory, with its gold pillars and grand statues brought to 3D. Or think of the Royal Chapel! Walking down pews towards a reverent cross, with stain glass windows filtering in the moonlight's beams to shower color over the church floor.

[darkwzrd4]

I had expected the city to be slowly overrun by classic enemies after Dracula woke up. Wargs, mermen, minotaurs, werewolves, and lesser demons would swarm the streets, killing humanity all over the earth. It's too bad we didn't see more of the world outside of the city.

I think the castle was done well, but I have a craving for a bigger castle. I mean, monstrous. Of course, hardware limitations get in the way...but just imagine a SOTN style castle done in sprawling 3D. Imagine the Alchemy Laboratory, with its gold pillars and grand statues brought to 3D. Or think of the Royal Chapel! Walking down pews towards a reverent cross, with stain glass windows filtering in the moonlight's beams to shower color over the church floor.

Now that would be epic.

[DragonSlayr81]

I had expected the city to be slowly overrun by classic enemies after Dracula woke up. Wargs, mermen, minotaurs, werewolves, and lesser demons would swarm the streets, killing humanity all over the earth. It's too bad we didn't see more of the world outside of the city.

I think the castle was done well, but I have a craving for a bigger castle. I mean, monstrous. Of course, hardware limitations get in the way...but just imagine a SOTN style castle done in sprawling 3D. Imagine the Alchemy Laboratory, with its gold pillars and grand statues brought to 3D. Or think of the Royal Chapel! Walking down pews towards a reverent cross, with stain glass windows filtering in the moonlight's beams to shower color over the church floor.

I really wanted more classic monsters returning too.

And yeah, your description of a 3D CV is what my ideal CV would be like. That and LOTS of vertical areas(with REAL platforming). Interesting thing about SotN's castle and the Alchemy Lab in particular, if you pay careful the background, it's like a city within the castle itself. When I used to create my own Castlevania areas in high school, I always took this into consideration. I created a version of the Marble Gallery that, in it's center, had a massive marble fountain that depicts a battle between demons and mankind, at the least, being 5 storeys high. YOu'd also be able to enter it(the lower level has flood gates that allow access into inner chambers, as well as a tunnel to the water area of the castle).

[crisis]

I think the castle was done well, but I have a craving for a bigger castle. I mean, monstrous. Of course, hardware limitations get in the way...but just imagine a SOTN style castle done in sprawling 3D. Imagine the Alchemy Laboratory, with its gold pillars and grand statues brought to 3D. Or think of the Royal Chapel! Walking down pews towards a reverent cross, with stain glass windows filtering in the moonlight's beams to shower color over the church floor.

dont let everyone saying "that would be awesomely perfect" fool you, rest assured even if they did exactly that we'll still find a reason(s) to complain about it. its the nature of the cv fan lol

[Anglachel]

dont let everyone saying "that would be awesomely perfect" fool you, rest assured even if they did exactly that we'll still find a reason(s) to complain about it. its the nature of the cv fan lol

The problem that I had with the castle was the same with the city: it was all too dark, and not in atmosphere but in design. Some more color and variety would have been neat. Agreus' garden should have been expanded, perhaps with some evil owls, demon trees, and satyrs patrolling the forests. It would have been cool to have the Castle Treasury from Harmony of Dissonance, or the Eternal Corridor from CotM. So many cool locations would look fantastic in 3D.

[Claimh Solais]

Agreus' garden should have been expanded, perhaps with some evil owls, demon trees, and satyrs patrolling the forests.

No, man, you don't understand the realism of having THAT FUCKING MANY LEAVES ALL OVER THE FLOOR. LIKE SERIOUSLY.

[Flame]

anyone got that LoS1 teaser that someone put Cv music to? i think it was the Cv64 bloody tears or something, and then VK

nevermind I found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIu0ywRazGg

[Anglachel]

I think it would be cool if the Paladin's cross was somehow actually important to defeating Satan. Or maybe at the end, when Dracula returns to God's side and fights the Devil, he, Alucard, and Victor all recite the Paladin's prayer (Dracula saying it in faith and not mockery this time) and the power from the angels is what throws Satan into the pit.

[crisis]

since this topic was resurrection, i jsut wanted to bring up something thats been on my mind for a while:

for one, the initial idea presented concerning the castle itself was very unique & different for the series. the fact that after centuries of misery & revenge, Dracula finally wants out of eternal life. i like this particular line: "This castle has been my home for many centuries.. now all I want to do is escape." the fact that the very essence of the castle itself would cry out to Dracula "we are your family now.. dont leave us!" was creepily awesome. That's nearing Shakespearian territory man. i kinda wish the "canon" Dracula wouldve gone through a similar arc (he kinda did in Symphony, but thats another debate). i loved how at first the game made it unclear whether the castle segments were just part of draculas psyche, another dimension, or him somehow travelling to the past. they shouldve def kept that up, without actually giving us a definitive answer. it started off as a unique psychological aspect to the series we haven't seen before, and probably wont see again. wouldve been great speculation & debate here, on what was "real" and what wasnt. i really wish they would explore this kinda stuff further in future games, so castlevania would finally have a real interesting perhaps thought-provoking narrative paired with excellent platforming & beautiful graphics/music

anybody else agree/disagree?

[Anglachel]

I agree with what you said and I disagree with how the game handled it.

Aside from being the coolest looking portion of the game, the castle had great moments worthy of Castlevania. The Inner Dracula boss was a perfect boss for the series. The blood of the castle was a unique plot device for the game. It was very unsettling to hear the voices of the demon blood beg Dracula to not go then summon monsters to fight him.

While I don't think Castlevania is a series with profoundly deep messages, descending into Dracula's psyche even further would have been neat. That could have further amplified the craziness and horror that Lords of Shadow 2 could have delivered. Revelations did this well with the Forbidden Wing, hearing Dracula's cries and writings in blood on the floors. (Note: Should have been used to present...bloody tears.  )

Now that I think about it, the castle and the city both feel like two separate games that MercurySteam couldn't decide which one to fully develop so they just meshed the two together without thinking all the knots through.

[The Silverlord]

i wouldnt go so far to say it's AWFUL, there are certainly worse games out there than los2. but it does have its redeeming qualities, such as the castle which was simply breathtaking the first time i experienced it, the little nuances such as Dracula slitting his wrist on those sharp stone objects to offer blood, him eating beating hearts for energy, the way his gauntlet glows, etc. if you ignore the wack ending & other annoyances and just look at it for these aspects i listed for a second, they prevent the game from being downright awful because those things they did right were so awesome and perfect for a 3D Castlevania. also, the Alucard DLC. but to each his own of course

Just completed the game, and agree with you crisis.

The game features so many characters with differing temperament and motive (Satan, Death, Dracula, The Castle itself, Victor, Agreus, Carmilla, Marie/Young Trevor, Alucard?), it’s no surprise the game feels at times all over the place.  It doesn’t seem to tie much down.

I think they did rather well with Dracula as protagonist.  You get a genuine sense you have awoken from a deep slumber.  Alien environments, stealth sequences, mechs, and all manner of sinister motive at play as forces fight the moment.  The castle setting almost serves to awaken Dracula even as it awakens and familiarises the player.  I didn’t really know where I stood in terms of the plot: pretty much led down a path and having to hold strong to Dracula’s vision of ending it all.  The game really showed Dracula’s great strength in presence and will.  And those pain item boxes, sacrificing blood to open doors and such were marvellous touches which helped bring home the character.

I didn’t think the twist with Alucard was half bad, even if the underlying premise of their pact wasn’t too apparent.

[The Silverlord]

i loved how at first the game made it unclear whether the castle segments were just part of draculas psyche, another dimension, or him somehow travelling to the past. they shouldve def kept that up, without actually giving us a definitive answer. it started off as a unique psychological aspect to the series we haven't seen before, and probably wont see again. wouldve been great speculation & debate here, on what was "real" and what wasnt

Agreeing, and yeah, it was certainly something else.  What I said in my last post: while the castle was familiar to the player in some respects, it was 'cos of this element that you couldn't quite be sure what was going on.  Odds seem all stacked against Drac, everyone else has motive while Drac is apparently in the dark.  While it seems like you're forced down a set or chain of events with Marie and Trevor (and that wolf), I guess in a sense he is forced in that direction, given the late twist, hence to remember events.  Dracula's presence and will might fly in the face of this contradiction, but it's like his strength was in following fate and some sense of inner honour.