Topic: Do you really think SCV4 is as good as everyone says? (I do)

[son_the_vampire]

I hold it in high regards simply because that 8-directional whip. That element along with the gorgeous graphics makes the most solid in the classicvanias. And Simon is capable of being Tarzan of Castles as well so what's not to like about that?

[Belmontoya]

I hold on to my cross until a get a triple cross. Then I just destroy for the rest of the game. It's usually level traps later in the game that end up killing me a few times. I've come really close to beating it on 1 life. Some day...

[X]

Everything I want to say about this game has already been said, but I'll say it anyways. Yes, this game is THAT good, is how I feel about it. Do I feel it's underrated? Yes, by those who're new to the series since SotN onward, although some if not all would appreciate SCV4 as the best of all the classicvania. Is it overrated? Not in my book. It was simply made very well at the time in the SNES' early career. Today I can still pop that sucker into my SNES and play it from beginning to end without feeling bored even though I've beaten it hundreds of times. The music, graphics, gameplay, sounds, stages, etc. all of it was done right the very first time. Is it the easiest out of all the classicvania. Yes, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest. This game introduced the multi-directional whipping so it's completely understandable if the whip is overpowered or what-not. It was the first time for that and no way can I fault it. I would also recommend this game to anyone who's never played a classicvania once in their life. Even though I use the whip most frequently throughout the game I still find a use for the sub-weapons. Mine's the Axe. get an axe, triple shot and max out my hearts and I'm ready to cut mean wake through my foes. It's also very handy in the latter half of the clock tower stage since the whip is used for grappling the ascending hooks.

Another slightly negative thing I can think of is the removal of alternate paths and characters from the previous game.

This doesn't bother me in the slightest because SCV4 is about Simon's trek to Castlevania and he was alone when he did it. Simon's always been the solitary Belmont vampire hunter throughout the entire series. It's to be somewhat expected of him. The alternate paths would have added greatly to the game's replay value but I also like a game where I can go through every single awesome stage in one go. There are times where I'd like to have this experience with CV III. Maybe someday...

[Lelygax]

I'll say the same thing that I said before and started this conversation:

I prefer Dracula X for SNES over SCV IV.

I've my motives, since it was my first CV game, it had and still has a special meaning to me, also I like the way these subs works and the difficulty would be right if it was a "Hard Mode". This game have some flaws, but have some pros.

IMHO they did a control so good in SCV IV, that they couldnt research how to do challenge at par with it, maybe thats why it doesnt is one of my favs (I still like it).

[darkwzrd4]

Best CV ever? No.

Best Classicvania? Yes.

It nailed everything that you want in a CV. It had great area design which was enhanced by the music. Other games like SotN and LoI had great music too, but they didn't enhance the atmosphere like in SCV4 (exception being the Ghostly Theater in LoI). Not to mention that the Treasury level was pure eye candy (the music in the area is the only one that I didn't like and failed to enhance the atmosphere of that area).

In terms of difficultly, the game started out easy and gradually got harder in a logical progression. That is until you reach the actual castle where the enemies get stronger, which is understandable. When I first got to stage 6 (the first stage that is actually inside the castle), I noticed a significant spike in difficulty. It's not as difficult as CV3, but it's still rewarding the first time you beat the game. And, let's not forget that after you beat the game, you get to play through the game on a harder difficulty.

As for the whip, I have no problem with it being multi-directional. Overpowered in terms of damage? I could see that a little. It does seem to eliminate the need for most of the sub-weapons, but to abandon the concept for the other games, that should not have been done. The only mistake that was made with the whip in my opinion is that they gave it too much reach with the second power up, which doubled its range and upped the attack strength. All that really needed to be done was debuff the that second power up in future games so that the length only increased by 50% instead of 100%. Shorter reach = greater need for sub-weapons for the axe, dagger, and boomerang. The stopwatch is always useful and fire bomb (holy water) has never widely useful except on certain situations (my opinion).

[Belmontoya]

Really if you think about it, there's nothing wrong with the sub weapons being a little less useful. Theres more incentive to level your sub weapon up. CV4 could should have had a higher difficulty, but not by much.

The fact that Simon is the only Belmont who realized he can whip up and down is just dumb. It makes no logical sense that a nimble whip would only be able to strike directly forward. That contradicts the whole point of what a whip is.

Watch how someone fights with a Chinese chain whip. CV4 made huge progress that should have set new standards. Instead every game that followed took steps backwards until the franchise went in whole other direction with the metriodvanias, which I still feel was the wrong direction.

[Lelygax]

I kind of understand your side, a thing that was lost in metroidvanias is that in classicvanias almost never you could flee from enemies, while in metroidvanias you can do it at the moment that you acquire a second jump onwards in most parts.

Noticing these things and looking at the 2 sides of the coin seems to be the best way to understand how to do a better game.

[Abnormal Freak]

I honestly think that no developer has been able to match what Treasure did with CV4. Not even close. And this games music is also miles above all the rest.

Treasure, uh, didn't make it. I think maybe one of the guys who went on to form Treasure did something on the game; think he was a programmer, might have been the main whip programmer, I don't remember.

Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?

Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.

[Dracula9]

I totally think it does. It's not my favorite of the series for nothing.

I'm not going to touch on any of the classic reasons it's so loved (dat atmosphere, dat music, etc.), but I'm noticing a lot of complaining about the whip. While the points are by no means false, there's a certain degree of redundancy in them. The whip's overpowered and the subweapons are underpowered; but if the whip was the same as before CVIV, with the subweapons getting a little more limelight, then it would be a matter of the subweapons being more powerful than your main weapon.

And that's really what it is. Your main weapon. I don't understand why it's a quality-affecting factor for the centuries-old family whip (which has been imbued with power and strengthened many times over) to, I dunno, live up to its name? I mean if the Vampire Killer is made to have great advantage and power over the LORD of all these monsters, why is it a problem if the lesser creatures succumb to it far more easily?

And I have a problem with saying that the 8-directional aiming should not be relied on. It's there for a reason, and if I had to fight hordes of monsters and choose between a timelessly good ranged weapon that can easily cover all my blind spots, or a boomerang/flask of water/knife/etc...I'm gonna go with the damn whip. It just makes sense. It's a little unfair to suggest not to use something because your gameplay style doesn't suit it, IMO.

[Ratty]

Treasure, uh, didn't make it. I think maybe one of the guys who went on to form Treasure did something on the game; think he was a programmer, might have been the main whip programmer, I don't remember.

Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?

Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.

They're two totally different game genres (linear/level based action and exploration adventure respectively) that just happen to share the same setting and continuity. That's like saying "Well if walking, running and jumping mechanics are essential to the original Super Mario Bros. games, how come they drive cars in the Kart series? Check and mate."

[Maedhros]

It deserves all the praise it gets.

Best in the series? Perhaps not.
The best Classicvania? You bet your hilt it is.

Nope.

Both Rondo and CVIII are better than it. No one will convince me otherwise.

[Briraka]

I was thinking about how to make the sub weapons more useful and I thought of this:

Make the whip the most versatile, yet weakest weapon and by making enemies either stronger and smarter. The whip can still swing eight directions and brandish, but it can't block projectiles in brandish mode. The enemies take more hits or require different strategies to defeat , like skeletons taking three, or the Axe Armors being protected from the whip while their shields are up.

As for my thoughts, I think a lot of the additions to the classicvania formula were nice, but could have used more planning. I don't know, just go watch Egoraptor's Seqeulitis on CV1 vs SCV4.

Other than that, you know the same old song and dance. DAT-MUSIC DAT-ATMOSPHERE DAT-GRAPHICS-DAT SIMON!

[Lelygax]

Anyway, if the multi-direction whipping breaks the game, why is it you never hear complaints of double jumping and mid-air direction changing breaking SOTN, et al.? I suppose you could say "because there's no pitfalls or hard jumping," but how is that not also considered a broken mechanic?

Well, it's not, so fuck all y'allz' bullshit.

Thats for me, Montoya or both?

but it can't block projectiles in brandish mode.

So its better make it even weaker when brandishing and make it still block, since brandishing was made for block attacks.

[Maedhros]

I agree that SCV4 does have, indeed, the best atmosphere of the series. So many little details that it's still astounds me every time I play. The music compliments the game really well too (even though I don't like it that much, something to do with the instruments used I guess).

[Briraka]

Actually, Lelygax scratch that. I was just thinking out loud about it, lawl.