Topic: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?

[theplottwist]

Sarcasm doesn't suit this situation since you obviously missed the point and misconstrued what I was saying,

I did not say they where EXACTLY the same on all levels, only that Soma was more akin to Alucard than Juste is considering his gameplay is pretty darn similar, something many big name sites as well as fans make note of as well.

True Alucard did not have a "soul system" like Soma did (although he did have a soul steal ability), but everything else about Soma is pretty darn similar to Alucard from the kind of weapons he can collect to the type of armor and items he can find in the castle.

Does not matter if it expanded upon what symphony did with its new soul system, the fact remains that the game still felt very darn similar to SOTN in every other aspect, even more so then HOD.

That being said I'm not saying its a bad thing that It did that, but I felt the need to point out the double standards I'm seeing all around these days to throw hate at certain games, the game this time being HOD for it being to much like SOTN.

Did you read the rest, under the sarcasm, where I agree with you?

The main issue I have with your argument is that you pretend that HoD looks nothing like SotN, where 80% of it does, even the map layout, that not while 100% identical, carries strikingly similar portions of it, both in layout and level detailing.

[Lelygax]

Alucard had his fair share of magic, in many forms, that make the spellbook system look like a "rehash" of the same thing, to me.

Even so you didnt mentioned it. Also these speelbooks works in a different way, since you dont use a motion and you need to equip it. Its more a "rehash" from DSS card system than Alucard magic, since Alucard could use spells anytime without equipping or enabling anything.

But even so, spellbooks changed effects based on your sub-weapon, a thing that isn't in your inventory to choose, so you needed to explore to change it, while with DSS you only needed to collect cards once. But oh, wait, a "thing" that enemies drops and you collect once and it will be forever with you, its like the Tactical Souls system from AoS, but primitive. Instead of cards, its souls, and they gave each enemy a different one, so it isnt 100% a idea that came on AoS too.

Also

I will grant you this, but you're ignoring that the problem is the aesthetic, and not so much the gameplay. Juste was a Belmont that could equip things, and forgetting Simon's limited equip system on CVII, and Nathan, he was the first to actually be a Belmont that could equip things and make for a cool twist.

Why? Because its convenient? In every Metroidvania the main character could equip things, so thats only natural that he would too. Castle B was obviouly a attempt to mimic the inverted castle, but its also like what they do on Silent Hill bizarre world, its creepy and have that "different aura" and they atleast gave a good explanation in the story, while there is none to why there is a Inverted Castlevania floating above another Castlevania.

Im being impartial here, I could point a lot of flaws in a game that I still love the same and pointing facts that even harm my argument, so please, if I can ask, dont look at only one side of the coin. Like in HoD, you need to explore the 2 sides to progress

[DragonSlayr81]

I enjoyed it, and loved someo f the areas(Skeleton Cave is probably my favorite, and I love how some of it has a really HR Giger look to it). Though, to be quite honest, I would've liked it a WHOLE lot more if it was a direct follow-up to SotN, on home consoles(with just as much graphic detail and sound quality).

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

The main issue I have with your argument is that you pretend that HoD looks nothing like SotN, where 80% of it does, even the map layout, that not while 100% identical, carries strikingly similar portions of it, both in layout and level detailing.

And did you read the part of my post where I note that there is enough different about the game to hardly call it a simple copy and paste?

I never denied to the contrary, only said that you simply can not call it a copy and paste game given traits the game has going for it apart from SOTN.

That is the problem I'm having with you now, your sitting here calling this game bad for being to similar to SOTN while giving praise to AOS despite the fact that it has just as much in common with SOTN than the game you are being so critical of.

AOS has the soul system to mainly differentiate itself from SOTN while HOD has the whip based focused combat and spell books.

[theplottwist]

Why? Because its convenient?

Nope. Because Juste was the first to be a whip user with a decent equip system, even though it was directly lifted from SotN.

Don't play me silly, Lelygax. If I wanted to intentionally overlook Simon and Nathan, I'd simply not mention them at all. But their equip system is terrible, and they are whip users, thus this is a point in favor of Juste, not against..

In every Metroidvania the main character could equip things, so thats only natural that he would too. Castle B was obviouly a attempt to mimic the inverted castle, but its also like what they do on Silent Hill bizarre world, its creepy and have that "different aura" and they atleast gave a good explanation in the story, while there is none to why there is a Inverted Castlevania floating above another Castlevania.

That's why I excluded Simon and Nathan from the mention, since they were bad equipment systems for whip users. For Simon because it was an archaic system, and for Nathan because it is limited when the hardware allows for a better thing (without mentioning the quite small and uninventive inventory of the game).

And about the castle, well... Story doesn't excuse bad gimmicks, and IGA already stated that he works gimmicks first, and story last. The story in this game will never justify why the second castle is a copypasta from the first beyond "Fake Longevity".

Since IGA got this out of the way, both castles are on the same "storyless" level (meaning that they both had no story-intent, Symphony's because it hadn't for whatever reason, and HoD's because IGA said so). Going by this, I think it's pretty safe to say that HoD's is the poor-man-that-must-deliver-a-long-game's copy from SotN's idea, but shittier.

Im being impartial here, I could point a lot of flaws in a game that I still love the same and pointing facts that even harm my argument, so please, if I can ask, dont look at only one side of the coin. Like in HoD, you need to explore the 2 sides to progress

I honestly think you're not being impartial. Not only you, but also DarkPrinceAlucard.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I honestly think you're not being impartial. Not only you, but also DarkPrinceAlucard.

Lol on the contrary, I feel you are holding clear double standards here, faulting one game for being to similar to the other while giving another a pass and even praise.

Your making excuses here and there to veil this double standard but its obviously still there.

[theplottwist]

And did you read the part of my post where I note that there is enough different about the game to hardly call it a simple copy and paste?

I did, and pointed out why the argument doesn't work, including pointing out that it does have many differences, but the similarities are way too glaring to overlook. The intent to make this into a handheld SotN is obvious and shameless, and this is one of the reasons why the game is not very well received.

I never denied to the contrary, only said that you simply can not call it a copy and paste game given traits the game has going for it apart from SOTN.

If you exclude all the similarities and glaring copypasting, of course only the differences will remain, right?

That is the problem I'm having with you now, your sitting here calling this game bad for being to similar to SOTN while giving praise to AOS despite the fact that it has just as much in common with SOTN than the game you are being so critical of.

It has much in common in mechanics, as expected from metroidvanias, much like I mentioned, and Lelygax mentioned. But the aesthetic shouldn't be so obvious, and that's where AoS and CotM stands above HoD.

AOS has the soul system to mainly differentiate itself from SOTN while HOD has the whip based focused combat and spell books.

And I agree, that's why I said that the gameplay is not so much the problem, whereas the aesthetics are the real issue. Too much lifted straight from SotN, aesthetics wise, which makes you think that you're playing SotN, where Alucard wields a whip.

[theplottwist]

Lol on the contrary, I feel you are holding clear double standards here, faulting one game for being to similar to the other while giving another a pass and even praise.

Your making excuses here and there to veil this double standard but its obviously still there.

Well dude, if you dismiss valid arguments ("mimimi time is a worn out argument and I won't explain why, it is because I say so mimimi!"), you can think anything you want, no? Already explained the point. Can't teach you to read.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

And I agree, that's why I said that the gameplay is not so much the problem, whereas the aesthetics are the real issue. Too much lifted straight from SotN, aesthetics wise, which makes you think that you're playing SotN, where Alucard wields a whip.

But you can use that very same argument for AOS.

Put Alucard in that game and simply add a storyline mechanic of Alucard unlocking new levels of dark power now has a soul system and you have a game that would pretty much be SOTN in 2035.

Soma has equipment as well as abilities that could very easily fit Alucard like a glove in AOS and no one would notice a difference.

But you get Alucard swinging a whip around and people would think to the contrary.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Can't teach you to read.

And I can't teach you to pull your head out of your a$$.

If you want to take it there to insults than by all means.

[theplottwist]

And I can't teach you to pull your head out of your a$$.

If you want to take it there to insults than by all means.

I'm not insulting you. I explained the time argument three times now, and it's valid. Some things worked before, some things won't work now, simply because one of the major factors is that things change over time. What you did to defeat it? "It's worn out because I say so", and proceeded to state the same thing as if the argument didn't exist. You lead me to deduce that you either can't read, or is dishonest. I prefer to believe that you can't read, but if you want to dress up the "dishonest" accusation, I'll gladly call you accordingly next time.

[VladCT]

Alright guys, enough is enough. Either agree to disagree or take it to the PMs. I already have enough of a headache dealing with stuff in my life, now I have to watch you guys have a petty squabble? Fucking. Quit. It.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I'm not insulting you. I explained the time argument three times now, and it's valid. Some things worked before, some things won't work now, simply because one of the major factors is that things change over time. What you did to defeat it? "It's worn out because I say so", and proceeded to state the same thing as if the argument didn't exist. You lead me to deduce that you either can't read, or is dishonest. I prefer to believe that you can't read, but if you want to dress up the "dishonest" accusation, I'll gladly call you accordingly next time.

And I disagree with what you said and see it as nothing more than excuses, that just my way of looking at your actions here of blasting HOD for being similar to SOTN but praising AOS.

Its not so much as me not reading your posts or being dishonest, its me seeing you for what I honestly feel your doing here, which is keeping a double standard firm in place.

[VladCT]

Goddammit, did you just skip over my post? TAKE IT TO THE PMS OR JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Jeez.

[theplottwist]

But you can use that very same argument for AOS.

Yeah can I? Tell me how many things on AoS are aesthetically similar to SotN, enough to surpass HoD. I'm open to change my mind.

Put Alucard in that game and simply add a storyline mechanic of Alucard unlocking new levels of dark power now has a soul system and you have a game that would pretty much be SOTN in 2035.

Put Alucard in HoD and give him a whip and... Oh, it's already been done.

Soma has equipment as well as abilities that could very easily fit Alucard like a glove in AOS and no one would notice a difference.

But you get Alucard swinging a whip around and people would think to the contrary.

And that's a metroidvania base mechanic. Already explained that this is not the issue with this game, but does aggravate the "similarity" issue.

Besides, give Alucard a whip and you have HoD.

For your "Soma is just like Alucard" argument to work, you have to redraw the character ground up. For the "Juste is just like Alucard" argument to work, you just have to give Alucard a whip.