Topic: Concepts to explore in Metroidvania

[zangetsu468]

What if we were to steal a page from Castlevania 3 to merge it with the Metroidvania stuff?  Let's say instead of getting the Double-jump boots, the Morph ball, the thing that let's you breath under water, etc etc you instead rescued other vampire hunters that each had a unique skill. 

For exstance, you're playing through a level but there's  pathway you can't get to because your character can't jump that high.  A little while later, you fight the Cyclops boss monster and rescue a character that double jumps.  You go to the nearest save point (which is the only place you can switch characters,) change into Jump-Guy and go forth into your new area. 

That stops any one character from being overpowered and sets things up so story-wise there isn't just ONE person out to get Dracula alone.

This could work.
If I understand correctly, you're saying that you can indeed switch characters at the next save point, meaning:
- Beat Cyclops boss with Protagonist, rescue jump guy, switch characters..(Point A)
- Play as jump guy only in the new area
- Reach the next save point in the new area (Point B)
- Play as either character in the new area
This is a pretty fair trade-off considering you have to play from point A - B with jump guy first, but then you're free to change.
It still involves a challenge because the new character may be weaker or have lower stats, yet you get granted freedom at the next save point.I don't mind this idea at all.

What I thought was very ingenious about OOE's areas were that the way the stages were designed (nearly all of them) could almost be played from any entry point>exit point. If you went back to a level you could pick either entry but it kept the challenge. For a CV game with a hub, those kind of design elements sit well with me.

[X]

They used a similar concept in the PCE game Valis IV. Each character you could use had different abilities that helped you progress through the game.

That stops any one character from being overpowered and sets things up so story-wise there isn't just ONE person out to get Dracula alone.

I'd personally rather have the lone Belmont warrior face Dracula. It's more meaningful in that way, but each to their own. I do however like the idea of rescuing/finding others who will help upgrade your abilities in order to progress and get stronger.

[Claimh Solais]

What if we were to steal a page from Castlevania 3 to merge it with the Metroidvania stuff?  Let's say instead of getting the Double-jump boots, the Morph ball, the thing that let's you breath under water, etc etc you instead rescued other vampire hunters that each had a unique skill. 

For exstance, you're playing through a level but there's  pathway you can't get to because your character can't jump that high.  A little while later, you fight the Cyclops boss monster and rescue a character that double jumps.  You go to the nearest save point (which is the only place you can switch characters,) change into Jump-Guy and go forth into your new area. 

That stops any one character from being overpowered and sets things up so story-wise there isn't just ONE person out to get Dracula alone.

I like this idea. However, I think it'd be better if we had two characters active instead of just one, i.e. CV3 again. I'd imagine we could have a cool roster of 5-6 characters, and you can have two active at any given time. This opens up more possibilities for exploring, such as...

• You have Double Jump Guy and Puppet Master Guy
• There's an area up above that only DJG can reach, so you double jump up.
• There's a small hole that you can't pass through, so you switch to PMG and throw a puppet through to pass.
• On the other side is a point where you can switch characters. So you exchange PMG for Wall Jump Guy.
• Up above is a platform that only DJG can reach, so you jump up and switch to WJG.
• Going vertically is an area that requires you to wall jump to reach, so you go up as WJG and find a treasure up above.

Of course, they could be longer and more treacherous and stuff, but that's just an example. And instead of save points being where you switch, just have like a little totem that allows you to change characters. This way the Character Change things can be more frequent than save points, so you can have character changing be a huge element to exploration, but less save points so there's actual punishment for failure.

[Belmont Stakes]

Actual "Pitfalls" in a Metroidvania game, even if it's only on the hardest difficulty.

Remember LOD days where platforming was harder on harder difficulties ie disappearing platforms and the like moved faster? Good times were had... Although OOE did also incorporate some of this too on the harder setting.

Please, no. Pitfalls don't really have a place in games like these. While games like Shantae did have them, they were reserved for outside areas that were purely flat areas, and were never used in dungeons and other areas. If we're talking outside areas, alright, I can get behind that, as long as there's an indicator letting you know "hey, you're gonna die if you fall down here" like Shantae has (because it'd be cheap otherwise).

Also, instant death itself is cheap in these games. Have it do a good chunk of damage and send you back to the beginning of the screen or something. Instant death doesn't belong in a game like this.

Faster moving platforms on higher difficulties would be great, though. Harmony of Despair did this and I loved it, to the point where playing on normal felt so slow and boring in comparison. I'd love that.

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If there's one thing I personally want in a Metroidvania, it's either a Continue option or the game just taking you to the last save point immediately when you die. I'm a bit spoiled by modern games but sitting through a game over screen and then being sent back to the main menu only to load my save data up and then be at my last save point kinda feels extremely tedious. Simply sending you back to the last save point (or even the point when you entered the current area, if we're generous) would dramatically shorten wait time and easily increase the pacing of the game.

I don't see the issue with the instant death traps. That is what the first Castlevania game did. Either have it as a highest difficulty setting or some kind of an Easter Egg for us NES Hard Masochists. I'm of a mind for breaking controllers and yelling obscenities and inanities so loud my neighbors will lock their doors in fear every time I walk down the street.

[zangetsu468]

I don't see the issue with the instant death traps. That is what the first Castlevania game did. Either have it as a highest difficulty setting or some kind of an Easter Egg for us NES Hard Masochists. I'm of a mind for breaking controllers and yelling obscenities and inanities so loud my neighbors will lock their doors in fear every time I walk down the street.

I'm all for this. That's good design to me or accounting for things on higher difficulties. It's the same as how Skyward Sword had no heart spawns on hero mode but still had benches which restore health scattered throughout. Normal mode = spikes, Hard = pitfall with instant death