Topic: Metroid: Samus returns

[RichterB]

What are we talking about here? Is this another nostalgia-driven "Super Metroid Revisited"? I have no doubt from what I've seen that this is a competent and solid game, but is it basically the Zero Mission (Metroid 1 + Super Metroid) of Metroid II? That's the overall impression I've been getting. I mean, it's great to have a new Metroid like this in many ways, but from afar, it feels like it sits in such a middle ground that it's basically fun but forgettable. I just feel the franchise should be beyond this kind of thing by now, so I'm torn.

What's weird is that Metroid and now Metroid II have gotten their identities altered to fit better with the mold of Super Metroid...but conversely, it means that Super Metroid's mix of abilities, areas, music, etc. is becoming diluted. The individual entries are losing their individuality and sense of progression; previously, each game had its own take on things that widened the definition of a Metroid game. And while this happens, the series just stagnates.

Metroid Fusion was the last time they tried to move the series forward...with iffy results in my mind, but at least they went for it. In many ways the Prime sub-series struggles with the ghost of Super Metroid, too. It seems like the whole franchise hinges on Super Metroid and Metroid Prime 1, and I'd love to see it be able to make its next big statement. (I don't believe Metroid Prime 4 will be that game, either. It's going to come down to what happens with Metroid 5.)

[X]

RichterB@

I do agree with this as well. Dispite having fun with the game there is the feeling of Prime here and there, and the reuse of elements from Super Metroid is also noticeable. Nintendo might be a little afraid of moving the series forward after the backlash with Other M, but who knows.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I don't know who keeps telling Nintendo that it's nice to lock the controls down.
I absolutely --HATE-- using the Analog Stick to move, when there's a perfect D-pad for me to use below it, but noooooo that's the Power-Switcher.  How about let me use the analog for that and the Dpad for precision control, like Metroid has always had?

I'm sick of areas where I need to quickly turn around and/or/aim/morphball only for the game to decide due to the analog input, that I want to crouch or some other nonsense.

[knightmere]

Not sure if you are aware but you can also tap the touch screen to go into morph ball instantly. Maybe they can Dpad control in a future update?

[PFG9000]

I haven't had as many issues with the analog stick as I thought I would.  But I'd go for D-Pad controls in a heartbeat if they were offered.  Some of the puzzle rooms where speed is important get obnoxious with the analog stick.

I'm quite a bit further in now -

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Area 6, I believe, and I just got the gravity suit with 50% completion per the file select screen.

  I still have positive thoughts overall about Samus Returns, but I'm really getting annoyed by the convoluted level designs.  The level layouts feel more like a fan hack than an official title, like they're as complicated as possible with no regard for believable world-building.  Also, I feel like the character progression is pretty uneven, like I'll go for long stretches with no upgrades, and then I'll get a bunch within a minute or two.  But that might just be my impression because I've been backtracking quite regularly trying to access previously missed items.

The game is obviously HUGE.  It seems like one or two areas in Samus Returns are the size of the entire original Metroid 2.

I'm annoyed by the repetition of older Metroid BGMs too.  Would it have killed Mercury Steam to come up with some new music instead of rehashing the same themes we've heard in so many other Metroid games?  It's like they went the completely opposite direction from the Lords of Shadow OSTs.  Instead of totally ignoring the source material, now they're afraid to stray from it.

[Aridale]

I havent played much of it but so far I like it. What I wanna know is... why the FUCK isnt it on the goddamn Switch!??!?!?! Stupid fuckin Nintendo!!

[X]

Well... I just had a rage-quite moment.

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That f@#king mining robot you activate chases you through several segments of tunnels and if you're not quick, you're f@#ked. I'm not impressed with that at all. Metroid doesn't need that shit going on, Jesus!

[knightmere]

Well... I just had a rage-quite moment.

(click to show/hide)

That f@#king mining robot you activate chases you through several segments of tunnels and if you're not quick, you're f@#ked. I'm not impressed with that at all. Metroid doesn't need that shit going on, Jesus!

That sequence is not that much different from the SA-X chase scenes in Fusion which I believe is what they are going for.

[X]

I remember the SA-X chase and it is not the quite the same. There was only SA-X and no auto-screen movement to catch/kill you. That and you could stall the SA-X with your charged ice beam or ice missiles. No such thing here. It's a death gauntlet that you can't mess up or you start over again. Having to tap the screen to equip the necessary items in order to get through the gauntlet -while going through it- is a recipe for disaster. I've done similar gauntlets in other games, but I wasn't juggling with the stylus in order to equip what I need while trying to control Samus to keep ahead of the grinder. It is ridiculous.

[zangetsu468]

I seriously don't know why people are complaining that the game is taking visual and audio cues from other Metroid games like it's gaming blasphemy. Zelda ALBW basically ripped the overworld from ALTTP, and it ripped music from OOT, and it's a Nintendo game! But you don't hear that getting slammed. Not that I think either are bad games (Metroid SR isn't thus far).

The only gripes I have are the dpad not being useable, and the game would've looked much better with a higher framerate, but it still looks decent. 

[X]

But you don't hear that getting slammed.

That's cause we already slammed it, lol.

[knightmere]

I thought the music in this game was good. I especially like the ambient remixes of the original metroid 2 tracks.

[X]

I especially like the ambient remixes of the original metroid 2 tracks.

I noticed this as well. Much of Metroid II was very little music except for maybe three tracks, Metroid larva track, the game ending track, the Metroid fighting sequence, and the Metroid Queen fight, while the rest was digital blips and such. It's nice to hear that they were kept intact and enhanced rather then replaced outright.

[RichterB]

I picked this up earlier today -and yes- I am enjoying it. Nintendo must have been supervising Mercurysteam for this title as they did with Team Ninja in Other M as I'm not seeing their shenanigans either.

You know, Other M was the experiment that Metroid needed after the Prime series had been explored for four games (counting the DS entry). The initial trailer hyped me so much to see a 3rd-person 3D Metroid. It wasn't a flat-out success, but the overstated narrative issues and the lack of sales have buried the fact that it started to explore how to handle 3D Metroid beyond Prime. It will likely never happen, but I would love for Prime 4 to take a look at what was done and try to create a better hybrid experience; either that, or a future 3D Metroid project (Metroid 5...6?). My two biggest issues with Other M, which I had a lot of fun with, was 1.) that it was a little too insecure in the way it handled the mixture of 1st-person, 3rd-person, and over-the-shoulder perspectives. (I'd love to see it have a camera system like Breath of the Wild.) And 2.) it kept the same problem as most recent Metroid games in that it relied on the series' laurels, this time being a pseudo-remake of Metroid Fusion, and being too linear as a result. That actually bothered me more than anything else in the game. Samus almost always had a sensitive side (since Metroid 2's ending) and a reflective side (Super Metroid and ESPECIALLY Metroid Fusion). It may not have been handled gracefully in Other M, but it didn't deserve to be the only point of discussion that came from Other M. I'm concerned the lack of acknowledging anything positive from Other M will hold Metroid back into a box of nostalgia. I mean, again, Other M was sort of the "first experiment" to get Metroid's mainline up and running for a modern age (in 3D) in the same way that Samus Returns is a "first experiment" to get Metroid's mainline up and running again (in 2D). Both cover familiar ground with a new, unlikely team in hopes of getting to a major new mainline entry.

[zangetsu468]

@RichterB
There are some fundamental problems with Other M though. Forget the story elements and narrative, there are a few things inherently wrong with the game which could've been easily solved:

- FPS puzzle sequences, including the final boss fight (notice I didn't lump firing missiles in with either of these); remove entirely
- Slow walking sequences; remove entirely
- "Recharge" ability; remove entirely
- Spammable dodge mechanic; solve by adding a meter which depletes
- Extremely Short Campaign; lengthen the game legitimately
- Poor graphics compared to previous console 3D Metroid games (they were still using billboarding for some of the blast effects); invest more in polishing the game.

These things alone are enough to make me dislike the game as a Metroid game. It strayed too far from the original series imho.

Some redeeming factors imo were:

- Melee elements
- Switching between 3rd and 1st person was interesting
- Generally the game played well

The linearity is a matter of opinion, the issue here with Other M is that everyone wanted a 3D version of a Super Metroid/ Zero Mission, but what we got was a linear 2.75'D Metroid Fusion. (Don't get me wrong, I don't hate fusion, but it's not one of my favourites.)

With Samus Returns I'm about 11 hours in now and as X said, I'm not seeing any bullshit here. I'm surprised the level of challenge is decent and stays pretty true to the original game. The semi-cinematics which occur only during Metroid fights in a moment of "meleeism" are handled well, and it doesn't take away the players viewpoint etc. (so they've taken something from Other M and it's worked). I can see where MS have put in their two cents in certain places (pulling the blocks with the grapple for one is reminiscent of Gabriel in LOS1 wrapping the combat cross around objects and pulling, for example) but it doesn't detract from the experience of being "Metroid". Enjoying it quite a lot thus far. It makes me want to go back and finish the original at some point.