Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [ID] Topic: Castlevania's future  (Read 23963 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline shelverton.

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2085
  • Awards The Retro Gamer: Has a heated passion for the oldschool VG Titles. One-Time Show: Not quite a lurker, but posts infrequently and in only few areas. Capable of resolving arguments/fights peacefully without mod/admin intervention.
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2016, 01:46:10 PM »
0
I think a new 2D CV makes sense.

A game in the $30.00 price range that brings the series back to its glory days.

No remakes or reboots. Just a good new 2d CV.

CV needs its identity back. Anything else at this point would be a mistake in my opinion.
They've taken the series way of course and are hemorrhaging fans.

Well that is what I personally want too. I'm just not seeing it happening anytime soon, if ever again, and definitely not for console. But I hope I'm soooo wrong here, I really really REALLY do. I'm just curious if Konami is even interested in anything between AAA blockbuster and casual mobile games. A 2D Castlevania would fall right between these two, in a segment Konami is not exactly known for anymore.

Seeing them trying to cater to the Dark Souls fans seems more logical, even if it crashes and burns and it's the very last time we hear from Castlevania ever again. It'd be like the last big AAA attempt for CV. (Unless LoS2 was, in fact, just that...)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 01:52:01 PM by shelverton. »

Offline Sumez

  • Hunter in Training
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Only at the Castle Gate...
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2016, 02:41:09 PM »
0
A Dark Souls style game is definitely the most likely approach. A lot of companies are putting out Dark Souls "clones" now, but still surprisingly few, so with the continued success of these games, I'm sure that's a market more AAA companies are still waiting to tap into.

Also, in regards to this whole thread, and honestly a lot of this board, I really wish people would stop requesting MORE plot in their Castlevania games. Nobody plays Castlevania for the story. Sure, give it a basic tale to weave together some amazing setpieces and gives us the tales of classic gothic horror that we like, but the series is better off without any crazy attempts at tidying up all the lore and timelines, and making every story canon. It's like people who insisted on giving the Zelda games a time line.

If Castlevania needs to go anywhere, it needs to TEAR DOWN the current lineage. I'm all for a reboot, though not a Lords of Shadow one. I would prefer to keep the basic mythos intact - Bram Stoker style Dracula, classic horror monsters, and a family with a whip, go!

edit: Also, barbarian Belmonts
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 02:44:06 PM by Sumez »

Offline theplottwist

  • Canon Literalist
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1848
  • プロットツイスト君
  • Awards 2018-06 Sprite Contest First Place 2017-07-Sprite Contest 2nd PLace 2016-09-Sprite Contest First Place 2015 - Christmas Award First Place 2015 - Halloween Sprite Contest - Second Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania Adventure Rebirth (Wii)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2016, 02:59:31 PM »
0
Also, in regards to this whole thread, and honestly a lot of this board, I really wish people would stop requesting MORE plot in their Castlevania games. Nobody plays Castlevania for the story.

[Citation Needed]

Also:



People will request whatever the hell they want from the series. This "the series needs to be like this and like that and nobody plays Castlevania for this and that" mentality sure is a drag to read. As if it weren't more obvious, I like my video games plot heavy, and this includes Castlevania. But I don't go around telling people what Castlevania should be and how bothersome it is for people to think differently from my tastes.

I understand people liking their Castlevania simpler, but I don't understand they wanting to take from me what made me a fan of the series to begin with. It's not like my "more plot" tastes are detracting from your "more gameplay" enjoyment.

Why can't we have both? Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne :)

Quote
It's like people who insisted on giving the Zelda games a time line.

You say that as if it were a bad thing. People who liked Zelda before still keep their Zelda experience, while fans of an overarching plot got their own treat. Everyone's happy.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 09:55:33 PM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline X

  • Xenocide
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 9361
  • Gender: Male
  • Awards SuperOld Dungeonite: Members who have been around since the oldOLD days. The Unfazed: Never loses his/her calm, even in the most heated arguments. The Retro Gamer: Has a heated passion for the oldschool VG Titles.
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2016, 11:38:20 PM »
0
Quote
I think a new 2D CV makes sense.

A game in the $30.00 price range that brings the series back to its glory days.

No remakes or reboots. Just a good new 2d CV.

CV needs its identity back. Anything else at this point would be a mistake in my opinion.
They've taken the series way off course and are hemorrhaging fans.

I'm surprised I haven't died due to this kind of haemorrhage yet  :P

And I agree that CV needs to go back to what it was and then Konami can take it from there without relying on what has already been done (ie remakes of existing titles). Also the story doesn't need to be complex. Sure I too like a good complex story however CV is one of those games where it is not necessary. It can be complex, or simple, or even in between. However I definitely feel that the reason why the CV series suffered prior to MS taking the reigns is because it became way too complex for its own good. It got out of hand because everything had/needed to be explained. Even iconic villains/heroes needed to be explained rather then be left alone for us to have our beloved mysteries.
"Spirituality is God's gift to humanity...
Religion is Man's flawed interpretation of Spirituality given back to humanity..."

Offline Sumez

  • Hunter in Training
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Only at the Castle Gate...
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2016, 01:07:23 AM »
0
This "the series needs to be like this and like that and nobody plays Castlevania for this and that" mentality sure is a drag to read. As if it weren't more obvious, I like my video games plot heavy, and this includes Castlevania. But I don't go around telling people what Castlevania should be and how bothersome it is for people to think differently from my tastes.
I'm very sorry if I offended you, but you're reading it wrong if you see my post as an attack on people focusing on the story of the game. You are obviously allowed to play Castlevania for the plot, but subjective opinions aside, I still think it's very safe to say that none of the CV games have a particularly interesting or well crafted story - a majority of them don't even have any plot development at ALL that's not in the manual. If it weren't for everything else making the games great, I don't believe anyone would have cared about the story in the first place.

Are you seriously going to tell me that the story is the main reason why you play any Castlevania game? And do you seriously think making the story more and more convoluted and depending on other iterations of the series, is the way to bring back Castlevania and make the series strong again? To me that sounds more like the wet dream of a fandom, than a realistic way to reinvigorate a game series.

Quote
I understand people liking their Castlevania simpler, but I don't understand they wanting to take from me what made me a fan of the series to begin with. It's not like my "more plot" tastes are detracting from your "more gameplay" enjoyment.

Why can't we have both? Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne :)
I'm not saying the games shouldn't have a good story. In fact I would love to have more of a story, I just don't want to see it expand much further than the borders of the game in which it exists, and I don't want it to subtract from the flow of the game experience. Most CV games already do it like that.
What I'm saying is that trying to build further on the existing canon, and trying to take it to new places is only going to make the story more and more convoluted and cringeworthy. There's only so much you can do with what we have at this point.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 01:10:24 AM by Sumez »

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
  • God bless the hustler, curse the first sleeper
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2016, 01:15:24 AM »
0
Let's all be honest, story isn't the 1) selling point of CV, it's gameplay first and foremost.
However, some stories are engaging as hell.. AOS for its time was the closest thing to a suspense/ thriller I'd ever seen in CV.

I would say the overall timeline is less important and not necessarily as interesting as say, Zelda. But there is a sense of wanting to keep playing to uncover what happens next. There's always a twist in CV and that keeps me interested and entertained as I'm playing. It also helps when the characters are gud. 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

  • Canon Literalist
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1848
  • プロットツイスト君
  • Awards 2018-06 Sprite Contest First Place 2017-07-Sprite Contest 2nd PLace 2016-09-Sprite Contest First Place 2015 - Christmas Award First Place 2015 - Halloween Sprite Contest - Second Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania Adventure Rebirth (Wii)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2016, 02:40:17 AM »
+1
I'm very sorry if I offended you

No offense taken, really. It just appeared to me as if you disliked that people focused on the series' plots for no reason other than "I don't care for the plot, therefore you shouldn't also."

Quote
You are obviously allowed to play Castlevania for the plot, but subjective opinions aside, I still think it's very safe to say that none of the CV games have a particularly interesting or well crafted story - a majority of them don't even have any plot development at ALL that's not in the manual.

You can't really say "subjective opinions aside" and then lay down a subjective opinion. You dislike the story and think it's not well-crafted, and you're allowed to think so. But I don't think like this, and many more also don't. I'll leave this one aside since this will devolve into another converstation already present on this board and is not the focus of what we're discussing.

Quote
Are you seriously going to tell me that the story is the main reason why you play any Castlevania game?  And do you seriously think making the story more and more convoluted and depending on other iterations of the series, is the way to bring back Castlevania and make the series strong again?

Again: I became a fan of the series because of the story. May make zero sense on your mind, but this is exactly because you don't care for the plot at all. And I started on the old ones, mind you. The ones where "the plot goes nowhere except on the manuals." The games themselves gave little plot development sure, but the plot development that was present on the manuals did positivelly affect the experience for me, and it only got better when this plot received bigger focus.

If someone gives me a Castlevania where the "plot" is an excuse to have someone trying to whip Dracula's head off, no problem, I'll play it and weight its strengths on this alone (Adventure Rebirth is my favorite on this regard). But if you give me a Castlevania where someone actually spent their time writing a story so the scenario makes sense and is not simply a rehash of the same idea over and over (or explains why it's a rehash of the same idea), I'll like it much better. It'll enhance my enjoyment of the product.

As far as I'm aware, the plot was never a major point of criticism. It's not something that, when removed, instantly increases the quality of the games. So again I ask: Why do you feel that the story is an issue? If you dislike it, it's not something that is detracting from your enjoyment of the gameplay, or is it? The story of LoS2 was shit-tier, and even so people criticize it mostly for the gameplay.

The story of Castlevania is a magical thing that, when it's good, it enhances the experience. When it's bad, but with good gameplay, nobody gives a shit. It's not something that makes the product worse if it's bad, for the majority.

The overarching plot of the series, to me, doesn't feel convoluted at all. I feel that the stories are actually fairly simple to comprehend, and pretty straight forward as they are, giving the series the ability to slightly spin its most basic premise (someone climbs there and whips Dracula's face) every time. And it surprises me how people want to simplify even those.

Quote
To me that sounds more like the wet dream of a fandom, than a realistic way to reinvigorate a game series.

I don't think of a plot in such a grand way as to "reinvigorate the series", and I don't think many do. But then again -- why keep it kindergarden level when you can go for something more involved that is actually well done?

When removing something doesn't change the equation but adding it makes it better if well done, what the hell is the issue on adding it, then? It's not like adding a plot to Castlevania actually shat all over it.

I get this funny impression that, while people defend that the plot isn't relevant, they are at the same time defending that Castlevania IS about having a barebones, writen-on-a-napkin plot. If it's not relevant, leave it alone for those who care about it, why the fuzz? When did the supposedly irrelevant story get on the way of your enjoyment of the gameplay?

Quote
I'm not saying the games shouldn't have a good story. In fact I would love to have more of a story, I just don't want to see it expand much further than the borders of the game in which it exists, and I don't want it to subtract from the flow of the game experience. Most CV games already do it like that.

Why?

I agree entirely with you that the story shouldn't detract from the game's flow -- it should be weaved intelligently through the gameplay and never force the rhythm of the game (once started) to come to a halt. You're sitting to PLAY the game, after all.

But then, this specific bit of "the story shouldn't expand further than the game it's in" is what I don't get. What will be the issue with the gameplay if the story expands beyond one game? If the story is good and is coupled with good gameplay, why shouldn't it expand with further good writing and further good gameplay?

You fear that the writer will corner himself like IGA running out of spaces in the timeline to create games, is that it? If this is what you're afraid of, know that IGA thought gameplay FIRST, story SECOND, to the point of creating things like Harmony of Despair and Judgment -- two games that obviously don't have where to stand on the canon, but got made anyway because IGA wanted to experiment with gameplay ideas, and ended up giving them excuse plots just for formalities.

If the gameplay is good, fuck the timeline -- the game is happening. And, as far as I'm aware, IGA's plots never got in the way of the gameplay's enjoyment (but DID get on the way of people actually interested on the story from making sense of it).

Quote
What I'm saying is that trying to build further on the existing canon, and trying to take it to new places is only going to make the story more and more convoluted and cringeworthy. There's only so much you can do with what we have at this point.

Well, I'm not even saying the current canon should be used anymore. My argument hinges entirely on: If adding the story is not a problem and can increase the game's overall experience quality, why do you want to take the story factor away? Argumentum ad populum? I'm having a hard time understanding the "story for Castlevania is not relevant but it shouldn't be worked on." Either it's relevant or it's not.

If you want, you can just tell me "if you want a story go read a book" right now, and I'll leave you alone with no hard feelings.

TL;DR: The story isn't Castlevania's selling point. That said, when it's good it enhances the experience and is remembered. When it's bad, nobody uses it as determinant of the gameplay (the selling point). So, why apply even smaller focus on the story if it makes no negative difference?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 03:10:33 AM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
  • God bless the hustler, curse the first sleeper
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2016, 02:55:21 AM »
0
You wouldn't be Plot without loving a good one too ;)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Sumez

  • Hunter in Training
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Only at the Castle Gate...
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2016, 03:19:09 AM »
0
@theplottwist

You keep making it sound like I'm not interested in a good plot in a Castlevania game, which is never what I said.
What I said is that I want the plot to be good [for what it is], and not go over bounds for what actually works in a game like this. What I don't like is the fanfiction level of "plot development" that people continously seem to consider the best direction for the Castlevania series to go. (but actually, going through this thread again, it's not that rampant here)
You also make it sound like I'm not happy with the plots in the existing games, which is also not true. Sure, I said that they aren't particularly well crafted (and you even just admitted yourself that they are mostly excuse plots!), but I think they did it right in all of these games.

Here's the tl;dr of the entire point I was making with my original post: The pre-existing "canon" doesn't matter, and there is no reason to use it as a base to build further and further on in any theoretical future games.

Quote
The overarching plot of the series, to me, doesn't feel convoluted at all.
It gets convoluted when you reach a point where Dracula has been resurrected 30+ times within a time span of around 500+ years, and you feel a need to lampshade it every single time. The games don't really have a problem with it, but when a Sonic-like fandom arises and people try to make sense and headcanon out of everything, I feel like they are missing the point, and are unwilling to accept that everything doesn't have to be canon. This is also why Bloodstained could end up being a perfectly fine "Castlevania sequel" provided they don't pull a Mighty no. 9.
Hell, they could easily put Dracula into the game without risking any lawsuits from Konami.

Offline theplottwist

  • Canon Literalist
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1848
  • プロットツイスト君
  • Awards 2018-06 Sprite Contest First Place 2017-07-Sprite Contest 2nd PLace 2016-09-Sprite Contest First Place 2015 - Christmas Award First Place 2015 - Halloween Sprite Contest - Second Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania Adventure Rebirth (Wii)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2016, 04:00:44 AM »
0
@theplottwist

You keep making it sound like I'm not interested in a good plot in a Castlevania game, which is never what I said.

OK. This was not my intention, sorry for misrepresenting you. Point taken. I'll put my further responses on Spoiler Tags because nobody cares for my wall of texts:

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 01:32:35 PM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

  • The Dark Prince
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1506
  • Gender: Male
  • Your dark prince has arrived.
  • Awards Permanent Resident: Seems to always be around to post/reply. The Great Defender will always defend the object of his or her fandom.
    • Castle Modding
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS1/SS)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2016, 12:39:59 PM »
+2
Just want to throw it out there that I to am one of those people who played the series further than I normally would have because of the story, I remember initially not being to into the story itself around playing CVIV and Castlevania 64, but once I played SOTN and found its story connection to CV3 that was what made me go back and start playing other games just to see how they all intertwined with one another.

Granted a lot of them did not have much to do with others but some like LOI,DOS,AOS and even COD connected enough with the previous games that I had played within the series storywise to give me enough incentive to check them out.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 12:44:13 PM by DarkPrinceAlucard »


Castlevania Modding Forum http://castlevaniamodding.boards.net/

Offline Belmontoya

  • Composer/ Voice Actor
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1619
  • Gender: Male
  • Awards 2016-09-Sprite Contest 3rd Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2016, 01:31:05 PM »
0
It's really a silly thing to quarrel over, isn't it?

Everyone has different things that drew them into CV. For me it was more the atmosphere and the music. And oh yeah my lifelong obsession with Dracula!

The cool thing is that here were all are under the same umbrella 30 years later still obsessed with this amazing series.

We're all under the same umbrella, stuck in the rain, hoping for Konami to make CV shine again. Let's all hope for the best!

If Konami doesn't do it, no worries becuase we can and are doing it ourselves, eh Plot?

The worst monsters are human.

Offline theplottwist

  • Canon Literalist
  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1848
  • プロットツイスト君
  • Awards 2018-06 Sprite Contest First Place 2017-07-Sprite Contest 2nd PLace 2016-09-Sprite Contest First Place 2015 - Christmas Award First Place 2015 - Halloween Sprite Contest - Second Place
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania Adventure Rebirth (Wii)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2016, 01:38:57 PM »
0
It's really a silly thing to quarrel over, isn't it?

Everyone has different things that drew them into CV. For me it was more the atmosphere and the music. And oh yeah my lifelong obsession with Dracula!

The cool thing is that here were all are under the same umbrella 30 years later still obsessed with this amazing series.

We're all under the same umbrella, stuck in the rain, hoping for Konami to make CV shine again. Let's all hope for the best!

If Konami doesn't do it, no worries becuase we can and are doing it ourselves, eh Plot?

I find the plurality of ideas in this forum awesome. There's a bit of everything for everyone, each of us enjoying the franchise in our own way. Which is why I find it strange when someone says that an specific group on the fanbase is "missing the point."

I hope I'm not coming off as an inquisitive dick. I'm truly interested on understanding Sumez's point, but I'm willing to drop this if anyone is feeling unconfortable.
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline zangetsu468

  • Master Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 3128
  • God bless the hustler, curse the first sleeper
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (NDS)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2016, 02:32:08 AM »
0
I'll tell you all a story.

As a child my parents woke me up early on weekends telling me I was "missing the best part of the day." I sat on that for a a few years....
Fast forward to a night when I'm 18, shit drunk on a Friday night, I stumble home at 2am to get changed before hitting a party that's still going. I open my parents' door and wake them, telling them I'm sloshed, just had the best night of my life and I've just had sex in my car with some hottie I met. "You're missing the best part of the day!!!" I exclaim...

They thought I was missing the point, I thought they were missing the point. The 2 viewpoints cancel one another out. C'est la vie.  8)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline EstebanT

  • Vampire Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
  • Favorite Game: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS1/SS)
  • Likes:
Re: Castlevania's future
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2016, 08:52:38 AM »
0

Tags: