Topic: How tied are you to the existing canon?

[X]

Well more then not, I strongly feel the Stoker's Dracula and the Historical Dracula are on and the same, even if the author didn't start it out that way, but it did become such in the end. And I felt strongly betrayed when some noobie not-Dracula replaced the traditional true CV Dracula the fans grew up with. The fact the I felt betrayed tells me how much I loved the old canon. How tied am I to the existing old canon? kinda like this;

CV classic canon -acknowledged as the true canon-

the IGAvania canon -relegated to a separate universal existence which shares the original games in mention only-

CV Judgement canon -out of sight, out of mind-

LoS canon -out of sight, out of mind-

[Belmontoya]

You and I have always seemed to see eye to eye on this one X.

But I've been inching towards a place where it doesn't bother me as much because I'm starting to feel that the moment Vlad the Impaler becomes fictionalized into a vampire, he instantly becomes less terrifying to me. The fact that someone was really capable of what he did is just insane, and no lonely, lovesick vampire version of him can ever compete with that.

But I still do feel that the character of Dracula the vampire is exponentially better as Vlad the Impaler. I just think Vlad is scarier kept in reality.

Not sure if I'm making sense, I hope I am.

Anyways, it will be very interesting when Mig and I start back on Wallachia with the real Vlad no fictional monsters motto. I can't wait to start developing that concept again with him. Should make for an interesting action game!

[X]

I just think Vlad is scarier kept in reality.

Oh he is! Truth is stranger then fiction. Absolutely no arguments here. And I've always found that having both the vampire and the real life counterpart being the same in CV, brings out the ultimate version that is Dracula.

[zangetsu468]

Vlad III himself is scary in mythology, but the truth of it is that many contemporary Romanians consider him a national hero in the epilogues of history. Admittedly he did some fucked up shit, but in comparison to what other people of power were doing back then, there wasn't a massive discrepancy. Gruesome, yes, but plenty of powerful leaders have killed. Killing and torture have been around for a long time.

[X]

Also too true. It's kinda the same thing as the British view Oliver Cromwell as a hero while the Irish view him as a man whom raped and pillaged his way across Ireland. One peoples' villain is another peoples' hero. Vlad did what he did mainly because Romania at that time was very unpredictable. He had to rule it with an iron fist as to maintain some for of order since the political climate was so unstable. That, and the threat of the Ottoman Empire warring its way across eastern Europe. But Vlad also partook in his favourite pastime and viewed it as necessary (torture, impalement, etc). To me Dracula is a the ultimate villain in CV while his real life counterpart is something to be admired, as well as feared. I honestly can't help be feel some form of a bit of admiration for Vlad. He had a very though life when you think about it and the end result was him trying to take some form of control over it so as to have it not seem so chaotic.

[zangetsu468]

True X.
I think Dracula and Vlad are actually the perfect allegorical fusions of mythology and history.
On one hand you have Vlad, who did all the impalement etc and when he was finally brought to justice his remains were nowhere to be found (with accounts varying). Then we have Dracula, possibly the most iconic figure in history, somewhat still shrouded in mystery.

The two are like the yin and the yang, the fact that both retain some form of mystery and uncertainty - though with a mainly consistent context - actually makes their "union" more complete. People want to believe Dracula is real>people want to believe Vlad didn't die>people want to believe Vlad is Dracula. There is something alluring and sexual to the vampire's kiss/bite and it has ties to bloodlust which fits nobody better than it fits Vlad.

[chainsawmidget]

There are a lot of things I like about Castlevania, but when it comes down to it, it's the game elements rather than the story one that draw me in. 

It's got a great atmosphere, music, enemy selection, and all that.  It's just that whenever they feel the need to try to give anything an origin, it seems to me like they blow it completely.   

I really didn't need to know that the whip was created with alchemy and continated somebody's soul or that Dracula wasn't really Dracula, for example.

[justin312]

#calamitycanon

Just a little?
CV's timeline is only convoluted if you count the games which were retconned. Even so the timeline is fairly straightforward.

That works both ways, you know. You could also say the timeline is only convoluted if you count the IGA games. If you stick to the Castlevanias released before he became series producer, the story was fairly simple to follow.

[justin312]

I agree with most of X's points. I don't like that they took a character that was iconic in pop culture, and decided to make him into something else. Why bother using Dracula as your villain then, if he just ends up being some guy named Mathias?

Also, I'm not concerned about what was written in instruction manuals of 8-bit games, whether Japanese manuals or English. Back in the 8-bit days, the games told their stories by showing, rather than telling, and your imagination filled in the blanks. If the original story intent was to invoke Satan, then why did you also clearly have Frankenstein and Mummies featured as bosses, if they weren't going for traditional pop culture Dracula as the big bad guy?

[chainsawmidget]

Ghost and Goblins got the idea of a guy fighting Satan across perfectly. 

For starters, he actually FOUGHT SATAN. 

Then he fought demons and things that looked like Satan. 

On top of that, he went through areas that were clearly meant to resemble Hell. 


Simon on the other hand, he fought the Universal Monsters in a creepy old castle.  If they were going for a satanic angle, they really really missed it. 

[justin312]

Yes, agree 100%, chainsawmidget. Ghosts N Goblins was about a warrior battling Satan and other minions from Hell. Castlevania took most of its cues from classic monster movies, like Universal and Hammer, and even Harryhausen.