Topic: CV4 art - Tom Dubois

[bronty]

Yes, you're right, I do sound defensive.   Perhaps not so surprising when one is attacked by several people at once, yes?

As I say, if I had it to do over I would have done differently, but at the end of the day we all appreciate the artwork and are now in a better position to do so, no?

[Dracula9]

That may be so, but if multiple people are going after you for more or less the same thing, that's generally a good reason to take into consideration that what they're going after you for is something worth attacking.

Plus, as has been mentioned, there are a lot of artists on this board, many of whom are said people going after you--I can't speak for them and won't try to, but I at least would take a grievous amount of offense and insult if I were given the same sort of treatment. That can probably explain much of why you're being hounded--other artists having a problem with how you've handled things from the perspective of being artists.

We may be more-equipped as you say, but that doesn't erase what mistakes you've made and certainly doesn't eliminate people's right to express their discontent with those mistakes.

[bronty]

That can probably explain much of why you're being hounded--other artists having a problem with how you've handled things from the perspective of being artists.

With all due respect, artists aren't one homogenous pool, so I don't buy that argument.    I've dealt with dozens of professional illustrators, and my experience has been that they come in all shapes and sizes and temperaments.    They don't agree on everything much the same way 30 bankers or accountants or lawyers wouldn't agree on everything either.   They all have different opinions and perspectives and what annoy some artists, others don't worry about at all.

To give a real life illustration to your discussion of wanting credit.   Certain artists approached for the documentary have wanted nothing to do with having their name public and have refused.   Others, like Tom, have welcomed it.

I think Abnormal Freak said it well when he/she said that it just initially rubbed people the wrong way.  Fair enough, I can understand that and was to blame for that.

[Dracula9]

Cherrypicking part of my statement doesn't do your defense any good when I specifically stated just prior to it that "I can't speak for them and won't try to, but I at least would [reaction]," as well as deliberately using the word "can" in that statement rather than something like "does"--I'm speaking for myself and what I've come to know about a lot of folks here, and I made the necessary clauses to clarify as such.

It doesn't matter if you "buy" the argument or not--you cherrypicking it suggests that you're ignoring the parts of it that clearly differentiate it from the argument you're claiming me to have made.

[Belmontoya]

D9 is hitting the nail on the head. That was a helluva long read but you have to understand Bronty, that a lot of spent our childhoods playing games with his artwork, gazing at the covers and dreaming.

This is a tender, tender topic for a lot of us. I've spent a lot of time trying to contact him (never knowing if it was a him).

Anyways...

So contra 3... That must be his work too right?

Let's make this about Tom and not about Bronty.

The cv4 art is so surreal. Dracula in the background flowing with the mist always blew me away. He looks so menacing and dark, yet there is a touch of beauty about him too. He really, really nailed Dracula.

[bronty]

Cherrypicking part of my statement doesn't do your defense any good when I specifically stated just prior to it that "I can't speak for them and won't try to, but I at least would [reaction]," as well as deliberately using the word "can" in that statement rather than something like "does"--I'm speaking for myself and what I've come to know about a lot of folks here, and I made the necessary clauses to clarify as such.

It doesn't matter if you "buy" the argument or not--you cherrypicking it suggests that you're ignoring the parts of it that clearly differentiate it from the argument you're claiming me to have made.

No cherrypicking.

You made, as I saw it, two points.

1) that I could have handled it better - to which I agreed

2) that "artists" view it a different way - to which I disagreed.

[bronty]

D9 is hitting the nail on the head. That was a helluva long read but you have to understand Bronty, that a lot of spent our childhoods playing games with his artwork, gazing at the covers and dreaming.

This is a tender, tender topic for a lot of us. I've spent a lot of time trying to contact him (never knowing if it was a him).

Anyways...

So contra 3... That must be his work too right?

Let's make this about Tom and not about Bronty.

The cv4 art is so surreal. Dracula on the background flowing with the most always blew me away. He looks so menacing and dark, yet there is a touch of beauty about him too. He really, really nailed Dracula.

contra 3 is his and fucking amazing and SC4 is his and also fucking amazing.   He nailed a lot of them!

[Dracula9]

Yes, cherrypicking.

With all due respect, artists aren't one homogenous pool, so I don't buy that argument.    I've dealt with dozens of professional illustrators, and my experience has been that they come in all shapes and sizes and temperaments.    They don't agree on everything much the same way 30 bankers or accountants or lawyers wouldn't agree on everything either.   They all have different opinions and perspectives and what annoy some artists, others don't worry about at all.

At no point did I say anything to state that artists are absolutely a homogeneous pool, share perspectives and viewpoints, and feel the same way about everything at all times.

What I did say was that I'm an artist and am speaking from my own experience and perspective, that there are many artists here (several of whom have chimed in on this thread) who I've known and worked and interacted with for a long time and have a reasonable understanding of how they tend to lean on this or that subject, and made a statement illustrating the potential for those artists drawing similar conclusions in this context--hence my very specific word choice.

Your continual usage of quotation marks around the word artist when referring to people on this board is more than a little troubling; are you implying that we're not "true" artists because of some personal reason, or are you outright mocking us?

It may do well for the future of this thread if you don't post things that can very easily be viewed as a deliberate attempt to rile people up more.

As Montoya's said, it's well past time we give Tom his due and stop pandering to you and your arguments, since most of us have said our peace and those still going are more or less just getting a last word in or clarifying a previous statement. I'd like to turn this thread back into being about Tom and his work now that a lot of us have gotten the major points covered, but that will be a bit difficult to manage if you keep trying to squeeze in final-say thoughts on arguments and points that have already covered their bases already simply because you're misreading them.

So with that, I've said my peace and have now clarified a seeming confusion you've had. If you still find yourself confused following this, then I unfortunately don't know what to tell you. It does us and this thread no good to continue humoring you with continued points and arguments, so with this post I'll be finished debating with you barring something completely drastic.

[bronty]

D9 is hitting the nail on the head. That was a helluva long read but you have to understand Bronty, that a lot of spent our childhoods playing games with his artwork, gazing at the covers and dreaming.

This is a tender, tender topic for a lot of us. I've spent a lot of time trying to contact him (never knowing if it was a him).

Anyways...

So contra 3... That must be his work too right?

Let's make this about Tom and not about Bronty.

The cv4 art is so surreal. Dracula in the background flowing with the mist always blew me away. He looks so menacing and dark, yet there is a touch of beauty about him too. He really, really nailed Dracula.

I thought you might enjoy seeing what CV4 looked like without all the trade dress.

I apologize for the poor quality.  The image is from a transparency which was an in-between step in production, and its very difficult to take a good photo of them since light doesn't bounce back off them.

[bronty]

Yes, cherrypicking.

At no point did I say anything to state that artists are absolutely a homogeneous pool, share perspectives and viewpoints, and feel the same way about everything at all times.

What I did say was that I'm an artist and am speaking from my own experience and perspective, that there are many artists here (several of whom have chimed in on this thread) who I've known and worked and interacted with for a long time and have a reasonable understanding of how they tend to lean on this or that subject, and made a statement illustrating the potential for those artists drawing similar conclusions in this context--hence my very specific word choice.

Your continual usage of quotation marks around the word artist when referring to people on this board is more than a little troubling; are you implying that we're not "true" artists because of some personal reason, or are you outright mocking us?

It may do well for the future of this thread if you don't post things that can very easily be viewed as a deliberate attempt to rile people up more.

As Montoya's said, it's well past time we give Tom his due and stop pandering to you and your arguments, since most of us have said our peace and those still going are more or less just getting a last word in or clarifying a previous statement. I'd like to turn this thread back into being about Tom and his work now that a lot of us have gotten the major points covered, but that will be a bit difficult to manage if you keep trying to squeeze in final-say thoughts on arguments and points that have already covered their bases already simply because you're misreading them.

So with that, I've said my peace and have now clarified a seeming confusion you've had. If you still find yourself confused following this, then I unfortunately don't know what to tell you. It does us and this thread no good to continue humoring you with continued points and arguments, so with this post I'll be finished debating with you barring something completely drastic.

I'm really not confused at all.    Just trying to respond to everyone without telling them to eat a bag of penises as I was offered at the beginning of this discussion, and to shed some light on some of the matters they seem to be taking issue with.   Not sure what else to tell you.

For the record, there was no subtext around using quotation marks around artist.   

[Abnormal Freak]

That CV4 transparency is awesome. I wasn't aware he also did Cynernator but when you look at the styles, it's all there.

[Belmontoya]

Another thing I love in his CV4 art is that everything is to scale. There's no Godzilla sized Dracula in the background.

It may be obviously staged to showcase many characters and features, but it stays so true to the game and the vibe of it. Unlike the Japanese cover.

It's really the perfect cover to the game. And it was another facet of the perfection that is CV4.

[bronty]

That CV4 transparency is awesome. I wasn't aware he also did Cynernator but when you look at the styles, it's all there.

cybernator's not the easiest one to pick out, for sure.

I'd say some of the harder one to identify as his are metal mech, cybernator, rocket knight, perhaps mystical ninja.    The last two because they are more airbrush than traditional brush.

Tom was one of the few guys who painted most of his work without any use of airbrush.   Most other artists used a mix of airbrush and traditional brush.

That lack of airbrush is one of the reasons his stuff is so identifiable though.   Well, that and the fact it was pretty much all for one publisher.

[bronty]

Another thing I love in his CV4 art is that everything is to scale. There's no Godzilla sized Dracula in the background.

It may be obviously staged to showcase many characters and features, but it stays so true to the game and the vibe of it. Unlike the Japanese cover.

It's really the perfect cover to the game. And it was another facet of the perfection that is CV4.

Amen it just plunks you right into the action in such a perfect way.   So much better than the japanese cover.

Here's the contra 3 cover for you, sans trade dress.  Again, sorry for the poor image.   Contra 3 is probably my single favorite of his works, personally.  SC4 is definitely right up there too.   Hard to choose between them.

[Abnormal Freak]

The thing about Dubois' art is he has excellent line of action. You can really feel the movement coming from a still image.

It's funny knowing he did the Legend of the Mystical Ninja art. I never really liked that cover because it was so at odds with the game art, but I can see his super detailed lines all over that thing. Really cool. The guy did do CV3, right? That's very similar to the CV4 art and likewise it's better than the lifeless Japanese art—which, usually with western vs. eastern art back then it was the other way around, so it's cool when there are exceptions.

I think it goes without saying he likely did Castlevania: Bloodlines—again, better art in the US. Looking back at these covers he did, I now know he was responsible for most of the US box art I actually liked back then; Konami really had the best covers over here, whereas Capcom had some of the worst, IMO.