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Offline coinilius

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2016, 02:33:00 AM »
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I think the statue is just an Easter Egg...

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2016, 02:37:14 AM »
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I think the statue is just an Easter Egg...

Yeah, well. I personally prefer to believe that Desmond is actually Simon's father and ignore this statue.

It could be used as evidence only if it made sense. But it doesn't. You can't have the statue be Simon AND Desmond be Simon's descendant AND have the game still take place in the late 1600s AND have Krause kill Desmond's father 20 years ago.

Too much contradictory stuff.

I love my hypothesises about split timelines and etc, but I can't defend/rationalize this one  :P
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 02:40:57 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 02:41:05 AM »
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How can he be a main bloodline Belmont in the scenario above, however, is too much for my brain to explain xD

Easy. Simon had a brother, sister, aunt, uncle, nephew, or niece, and THEY had kids.

That's still keeping things fairly nuclear both from a genetics and from a political perspective.

I think the statue is just an Easter Egg...

I'm definitely beginning to lean this way as well, Coin.
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Offline coinilius

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2016, 02:42:20 AM »
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Theplottwist - That's what I meant - I don't think it is meant to be an actual indication of anything, it's just a fun little wink at the audience.  I would argue that Desmond is Simon's father as well.  I also like to think that there is a missing game/story where Desmond faced down whatever it was that was keeping Dracula's Castle from collapsing - maybe they were trying to leave in a story hook for a sequel that obviously never happened?

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 02:45:02 AM »
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Easy. Simon had a brother, sister, aunt, uncle, nephew, or niece, and THEY had kids.


OR OR OR OR Desmond is actually Simon's younger brother.

-Simon's and Desmond's father dies, killed by Krause.
-Haunted Castle happens in 1691.
-Shortly after Haunted Castle, Simon decides to avenge his father. For some reason leaves the whip behind and uses another whip. Gets killed by Medusa.
-Desmond takes up the mantle.

This scenario seems to work. Would even explain how the heck did Desmond and his sisters track down the mansion -- by following Simon's trail. Scratch that. Forgot that this is info shared by Giovanni Gandolfi.

And I say SEEMS because something about that "20 years ago" thing is still not flying. Also, the lack of any mention about one more brother on this story really doesn't help the case.

maybe they were trying to leave in a story hook for a sequel that obviously never happened?

I'm not promising anything, but I might try to look into this.

One thing that strikes me as funny is how Dracula tells Desmond that "he worked together with Krause to bring him back to the world of the living." When Desmond questions him further, Dracula says that "maybe he has said too much."

Also, the epilogue says that a "looming presence remains over Desmond." I think it might be possible they pulled a Soleiyu Belmont here with Desmond.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 03:07:27 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline coinilius

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 02:55:36 AM »
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They had help tracking down the Oder's mansion - Giovanni, descendant of Rinaldo Gandolfi, tipped them off that it would be hidden within a meadow near Eternal Night (I have to say, I really enjoy all the references to Lament of Innocence that OoS contains - although how do you hide a mansion in a meadow?  Wouldn't it be easy to see?  Maybe no one gets to close to Eternal Night).

EDIT: Haha, looks like you edited your post while I was typing!  That would be interesting if anything could be found out about the ending of OoS, if there were any plans for a sequel (despite it's flaws, I'm a big fan of OoS in case you couldn't tell :P)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 02:59:59 AM by coinilius »

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2016, 02:59:43 AM »
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They had help tracking down the Oder's mansion - Giovanni, descendant of Rinaldo Gandolfi, tipped them off that it would be hidden within a meadow near Eternal Night (I have to say, I really enjoy all the references to Lament of Innocence that OoS contains).

Yeah. I liked that it reintroduced stuff like Leon's gauntlet and the Forest of Eternal Night back into the series. Part of the charm of the title is seeing the small forgotten things like that make a reappearance.

I have to admit, a remake with a proper budget and writing staff to iron out the inconsistencies would be swell.
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2016, 03:13:22 AM »
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Or the statue is there for a reason.



-Simon's and Desmond's father dies, killed by Krause.
-Haunted Castle happens in 1691.
-Shortly after Haunted Castle, Simon decides to avenge his father. For some reason leaves the whip behind and uses another whip. Gets killed by Medusa.
-Desmond takes up the mantle.

Aside from the bolded it works. HC Simon did indeed defeat Dracula after all.

And I say SEEMS because something about that "20 years ago" thing is still not flying. Also, the lack of any mention about one more brother on this story really doesn't help the case.

What I would say is this

"Count Dracula sleeps for a long hundred of years. During this time, peace exists at the village and Dracula is nothing but a mere legend.

However, one day a young couple named Simon and Serena were celebrating their wedding at the village's church.

The couple were enveloped with happiness, as the wedding bells rang, their future seemed blessed...

Suddenly, the empty sky was covered with dark clouds and with a rolling thunder that shook the earth, Dracula has once again awakened. Asking for the beautiful girl's blood, he flew down during the middle of the wedding and suddenly took the bride with him.

Now in order to save Serena, Simon heads to the demon castle."

—Official Help Video description for Haunted Castle.

Haunted Castle is an arcade version of Castlevania but it also introduces new elements ie Serena, the bomb (instead of holy water), the sword, Dracula's final form, etc. It doesn't matter when the game takes place. Though the statue may be considered an easter egg by some it's also there in plain sight. It bears some significance in this continuum.

Nowhere in the prologue does it state HC is supposed to be 1691, so I would say for this HC>OOS continuum that HC occurs before as it's flexible as to what year. For my personal timeline I place it in 1652 as exactly 200 years later CV64 occurs with Dracula's full-flesh resurrection (Malus). This would place OOS roughly during 1672, Desmond only ever defeats the Guardian to Dracula's sleeping spirit, Castlevania remains intact and centuries pass until LoD.

I'm not convinced about this entire Simon being his ancestor deal. I base my theory off the above in conjunction with this:



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline coinilius

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 03:21:49 AM »
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Interesting reading on Order of Shadows in an old IGN Q&A with the games lead designer:

Quote
IGN Wireless: How closely are you working with Koji Igarashi for this new title? Was he pretty hands on during the development, or did he just offer some guidance? Did he enjoy the challenge of working on a new platform, or was it outside his expertise?

TR: We met with IGA pretty early on in the development process, he gave his blessing, but also reminded us that the game had to be fun and keep with the spirit of the Castlevania series. This needs no interpretation and reaffirmed our believe that the game had to be designed to embrace the mobile platform. IGA took a look at the design, story and script, giving his input and comments as necessary. He was actively involved with ensuring the game was consistent with the current canon. His attention to detail and knowledge of the series is obviously unrivaled. It's really great to have a living, breathing encyclopedia, even if he's in Roppongi Hills most of the time.

IGA knows games, there's probably nothing related or unrelated to Castlevania he can't handle. His background is in programming so he understands the challenges of mobile. That's been a huge help&#Array;he even came up with a few solutions on how to improve hit detection and the whip mechanics.

And also of interest:

Quote
IGN Wireless: What sort of replay value will Order of Shadows have to offer? Will there be any hidden characters or unlockable areas of the castle?

TR: Again, I don't want to spoil anything, but we're all fans of the series. And we've made sure to include elements within the game that fans will recognize from other games, classic weapons and a few other surprises.

And:

Quote
IGN Wireless: What sort of timeframe in relation to other Castlevania titles?

TR: Officially, Order of Chaos is considered a "gaiden" or side story to the Castlevania canon. However, it takes place roughly in the late 1600s.

Full Q&A can be found here:

http://au.ign.com/articles/2007/08/23/castlevania-order-of-shadows-qa

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 03:28:32 AM »
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Aside from the bolded it works. HC Simon did indeed defeat Dracula after all.
Quote
-Shortly after Haunted Castle, Simon decides to avenge his father. For some reason leaves the whip behind and uses another whip. Gets killed by Medusa.

It's another Medusa, after Haunted Castle. If Simon is going to die, he HAS to leave the Vampire Killer behind, or there is no way for Desmond to start with it.

Quote
Nowhere in the prologue does it state HC is supposed to be 1691

True. If you can move the dates, then I suppose it works.
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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 04:51:10 AM »
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Belmonts look alike.

Maybe the artist who crafted the statue got the details slightly off and it's supposed to be TREVOR.
or CHRISTOPHER.

Or, it's just an Easter Egg.
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2016, 05:43:27 AM »
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Belmonts look alike

But that's my point Jorge, they could've chosen any sprite as an Easter Egg. Hc's sprite is very specific in the way that Simon whips (backhand and not ots). The statue also has him frozen specifically in a whipping stance.

If they were going for a generic Easter egg, "haha it's cute/comical" type of a sprite they could've used NES Simon. But they didn't.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline The Puritan

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2016, 07:22:57 AM »
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I'll go with the "Desmond is Simon's dad" school of thought. "Late 1600s" could mean OOS takes place in that century's 70s and 80s. Simon could've been a kid at that time, especially if you go with the CV wiki's birth year for him of 1667 (which I assume is extrapolating from info given in Judgement).

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 11:27:05 AM »
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I have to admit, I'm both frustrated and legitimately impressed by the amount of mileage you guys have gotten out of arguing the canonicity of a game even *I* will freely admit was never really part of the canon to begin with.

I do like my notion that Juste's canon father is named Desmond Belmont though, even if main canon Desmond didn't actually face Dracula.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Finally gonna give Order of Shadows its freaking dues
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2016, 05:11:16 PM »
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I have to admit, I'm both frustrated and legitimately impressed by the amount of mileage you guys have gotten out of arguing the canonicity of a game even *I* will freely admit was never really part of the canon to begin with.

I do like my notion that Juste's canon father is named Desmond Belmont though, even if main canon Desmond didn't actually face Dracula.

Well, I have never argued for it to be part of the canon. But actually to fit it in an alternate timeline where Haunted Castle happened (though this is more a Zangetsu's thing).
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