did IGA completely ditch the Bram Stoker tie-in from Bloodlines?
Methinks maybe the Belmonts should have thought that one through a little better.
What I wanna know is, how does IGA's LOI origin for Dracula work with Drac being called Vlad Tepes? Like, did Mathias just decide to go under the name Vlad III for a while, or did IGA completely ditch the Bram Stoker tie-in from Bloodlines?
What I wanna know is, how does IGA's LOI origin for Dracula work with Drac being called Vlad Tepes?
remember when Quincy somehow already a family and a son that the novel never touches upon despite the fact Quincy is looking to marry Lucy Westenra? Remember when he was a Belmont and had a magic whip meant to kill Dracula, but somehow never uses it preferring a measly bowie knife instead? Remember when these events took place five years after when the novel indicates they should? Remember when there was supposedly a spanish family with a magical spear that Quincy should be acquainted with, but somehow never mentions in the novel? Remember when Dracula was in fact bent on annihilating the entire human race and not just vampirizing them? Remember when Elizabeth Bathory was Dracula's niece despite the fact Vlad Tepes died nearly a hundred years prior to her birth? Etc etc I could go on the entire week, and these are all "non-IGA" contradictions.
What I wanna know is, how does IGA's LOI origin for Dracula work with Drac being called Vlad Tepes? Like, did Mathias just decide to go under the name Vlad III for a while, or did IGA completely ditch the Bram Stoker tie-in from Bloodlines?
I highly doubt the Belmonts engage in hardcore incest to keep things "purely Belmont"
As far as we know, Portrait of Ruin upheld the connection by doing nothing at all to revise things in that regard. It's a straight up sequel that largely plays the predecessor perfectly straight with the exception of a few twists the original had no way of implementing: overuse of the VK can kill a "impure" blooded Belmont descendant, for example.
That being said, and this is strictly an aside, I do wonder what the whip's operative standards of "pure blood" are, since by the rules of marriages and indeed general reproduction, bloodlines become more and more varied and muddled over generations by design to lessen the chances of dangerous mutations and deformities associated with inbreeding. I highly doubt the Belmonts engage in hardcore incest to keep things "purely Belmont", so by the time Johnny Morris is swinging from chandeliers in World War 1, the Belmonts and the Morrises were probably equally "pure" and mutt-blooded, especially if one ran a DNA test comparing a Belmont and a Morris in 1917 with Leon Belmont from nearly a thousand years earlier. I mean, even if the Morrises were descended from a daughter who didn't become the "Belmont Heir", is her blood and therefore descendants "less pure" for having not been the heir?
These lineage-based magical locks are confusing as heck, and I generally roll my eyes at them for exactly this reason -- such a lock could only work effectively within a few generations of whoever served as the genetic baseline, after which point things get muddied enough that either it doesn't work for anyone at all or it starts working for a whole bunch of unintended false positives. The longer that seal exists, the less reliable it's going to get.
Methinks maybe the Belmonts should have thought that one through a little better.
Or it's a lot more recent, having been placed sometime in the 19th century, in which case... yeah I guess it might still work in WWII. Maaaaybe.
End side rant. Thanks for tuning into yet another episode of "Lumi overthinks absolutely trivial bullshit"!
The thing to remember is, as I believe has been pointed out already, a version of the Dracula novel's events occur.Well that's my point A version of the novel's events occur, we have NO idea how it went down in The world of CV. it makes more sense for it to edited for it to fit in with cv, as the book was never made with the game in mind, And I feel that it would work a lot better then trying to mash the em both up. As there both very much there own thing.
For one thing Mina is Quincy's only potential love interest, it's clear that nothing happens there. Therefore due to the events surrounding Quincy in the book, it means he's not aware of his son John Morris existing, nor are we informed who John's mother is.
Quincy isn't known to carry the VK during the events of the book. However, there's nothing to say he doesn't know about it or doesn't possess it. One would assume if he had it, he would've used it on Dracula.
Quincy does however land the killing blow, which is significant enough to tie in his descendants.
Again, some assumptions need to be made to make it work, but it can definitely work.
Again, some assumptions need to be made to make it work, but it can definitely work.
For one thing Mina is Quincy's only potential love interest, it's clear that nothing happens there. Therefore due to the events surrounding Quincy in the book, it means he's not aware of his son John Morris existing, nor are we informed who John's mother is.
Quincy would have to be aware that he has a son due to the fact that John is mentioned trailing his father as they pursue Dracula (even though Quincy never mentions him). And yes, John following his father around is improbable due to his young age (two years old), but nothing a little more work wouldn't be able to fix. I did mention a while back in another thread that John could have been sent to the Lecarde household as Eric and John were friends. This would leave Quincy without fear of John getting involved throughout the story. At least until near the end when all are at Castlevania to confront Dracula. And I also mentioned that the Count's Gypsies could have ransacked the Lecarde estate and kidnapped both John and Eric and brought them to Castlevania as possible leverage against the other hunters. But this is how it is in my head-canon. Not everyone here would agree with that, but that's alright by me :)
Is the mention of John trailing Quincy in the Japanese game/ manual?
Is the mention of John trailing Quincy in the Japanese game/ manual?It is.
Is the mention of John trailing Quincy in the Japanese game/ manual?
It is not. We barely get any information on Quincy at all. Even the "wooden stake to the heart" bit is not there. We are only told Quincy is John's father, and that Quincy ended Dracula in 1897.
OHHHHHH, :-[
I read that on that site... that one where it had the games story up, the Japanese one. ohhh I really made an arse of my self here. Must stop believing everything I read.
Nah it's OK. Everyone screws up sometimes (and I could have screwed up just now -- mind sharing the link you're talking about?).Ahh found it, but i can't find it in there, i remeber reading it, but now i can't think where i read it. Must be one of those fan ideas that gets kicked around?
There is a direct translation of the manual's story section on Mr. P's website. (http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/cvbl/documents/CVBJ.txt) It matches up pretty closely with the JP text found in the manual.
I still think Bram Stoker's Castlevania needs to happen.
Those events 100% should be covered in a game.
It's like the heart of the whole thing yet we have next nothing on how those events went down in the CV universe.
What if I told you....
(click to show/hide)
Seriously though.
That could work considering we see it on Rondo's version of the VK. It makes the whip into a kind of double-edged weapon. You can kill your foes by striking them with the whip, or stabbing them with the handle. The only issue is that Quincy never used the VK. He was armed with a lever-action Winchester and a large bowie knife (which is the actual weapon used to impale Dracula's heart in the novel). But since he has the magical properties of the Belmont blood that would assists him greatly in taking down the Count without the whip.
That the wooden stake Quincy used to land the final blow on Dracula was the handle of the VK.. *proceeds to slowly put on sunglasses* 8)[/spoiler] Seriously though.
That could work considering we see it on Rondo's version of the VK. It makes the whip into a kind of double-edged weapon. You can kill your foes by striking them with the whip, or stabbing them with the handle. The only issue is that Quincy never used the VK. He was armed with a lever-action Winchester and a large bowie knife (which is the actual weapon used to impale Dracula's heart in the novel). But since he has the magical properties of the Belmont blood that would assists him greatly in taking down the Count without the whip.
It is obvious that things in the CV-verse would change from the novel. But even then Quincy still never used the vampirekiller or it would have been mentioned. He killed Dracula the traditional way rather then use the whip (plunging a wooden stake through Dracula's heart). And maybe the explanation could be is that he left the whip behind knowing he wasn't coming back alive. Therefor his son would take the whip after all's said and done.
I just now realized that Bartley may have been trying to finish what her uncle started in the Stoker novel. The last stage is in England after all.This idea also blew my mind.
I do really think that the count needs A better reason to come to the England, other then just to make Vampires, as he has others to do that for himThe novel indirectly illustrates the count being responsible for the ripper murders
It should be more like, that mina was related to some powerful bloodline, maybe Belmont? and as there inactive makes it the perfect time to strike,
as its hard enough already but with no Belmont's coming to take the back the whip in 1999, would put a lot on the Morris family shoulders, I have to think the family might die out, then there'd be NO one to whiled the whip. And I have to wonder if they would have killed the count like Julius.
The novel indirectly illustrates the count being responsible for the ripper murdersTrue, but That's still not really a good reason to come over to just kill, again he has others for that. he has bigger fish to fry.
Mina Harker>>>Mina Hakuba? Not that far of a stretch when you consider that the Belnades name came from Sypha's family tree to eventually get Yoko Belnades.Hmm I don't know, makes more sense for a Belmont. Hakubas where BIG but I don't think they where heard of back then, or surely someone would have asked them for help sooner.
My theory long ago was that after the events of SOTN, the Belmonts made themselves scarce, having been susceptible to the forces of darkness. Over the next 2 centuries they existed and trained in secret without the VK until Julius went back and took the mantle to defeat Dracula for good.
True, but That's still not really a good reason to come over to just kill, again he has others for that. he has bigger fish to fry.In the film, he was trying to acquire real estate in London, I can't remember if this is in the novel.
Hmm I don't know, makes more sense for a Belmont. Hakubas where BIG but I don't think they where heard of back then, or surely someone would have asked them for help sooner.
Sorry I have to disagree with you here, that makes 110% no sense. Why give up the whip to just train, Thats HIGHY irresponsible. That cost men bloody lives.The cost of the few vs the cost of the few that can actually potentially (and do eventually) destroy Dracula.. Hmm, not a bad trade off
See more on this below.(click to show/hide)
so he looked high and low for an answer, but then they came across a mystic. And he told them about an old holy ritual and what that it could do and what it would cost them. ( This also fits as in Simons time of need, suddenly someone appeared to give him the answer just when he needed it most.)It fits, but is it documented anywhere>
They wanted to find another way, as giving up the whip for that long they would have to put the burden on another's shoulders.Which they did, but it was entrusted and the Morris clan accepted it.
And it would leave them VERY open, for evil to settle some old scores.Unless they were in hiding. Whether you subscribe to the theory or not, they were no where to be found for roughly 200 years. They weren't there when Shanoa fought Dracula, nor were the Morris clan, I guess every hero is an asshole for not being there, right..
I feel the Belmont's wouldn't give up and endanger others unless they really, REALLY HAD to.Again, the most powerful demon slaying family has been directly at risk several times (as stated by yourself). They're not endangering others by preserving that bloodline and coming back stronger, that's fighting smart.
I mean I'm not trying to shoot you down.Yeah but you are, so don't sugar coat it #sorrynotsorry
but the idea of them just tossing the whip away, and making others take up the role and in turn killing others just to train, when you could really do both.They didn't 'toss' the VK aside. They entrusted it to the Morris Clan who were obviously capable of handling any unforseen affairs including taking down Dracula in their time of need.
Really does not sound very Belmont to me.Preserving the family bloodline by keeping it from perishing (to eventually destroy Dracula) is exactly what Belmonts would do and this is indicated in OOE. (this ties in with Richter being Daniela's grandfather).
Mina Harker>>>Mina Hakuba? Not that far of a stretch when you consider that the Belnades name came from Sypha's family tree to eventually get Yoko Belnades.
I do really think that the count needs A better reason to come to the England, other then just to make Vampires, as he has others to do that for him
Not sure I understand this. Wilhelmina Murray Harker is of English decent while Mina Hakuba is of Japanese decent. The two families are unrelated, and as far as we know, have never met.True, I was basically spit-balling because the two names sounded similar. I retract this because bad ideas.
The other reason for coming to England was to acquire Mina, the woman whom Dracula believe was his reborn love Elisabeta. Although he did not learn of this till later.
The cost of the few vs the cost of the few that can actually potentially (and do eventually) destroy Dracula.. Hmm, not a bad trade off
See more on this below.
It fits, but is it documented anywhere>
Which they did, but it was entrusted and the Morris clan accepted it.well most likely either 1 the Morris didn't hear about it. 2 most likely Morris who was holder of the whip that gen was still getting ready.
Unless they were in hiding. Whether you subscribe to the theory or not, they were no where to be found for roughly 200 years. They weren't there when Shanoa fought Dracula, nor were the Morris clan, I guess every hero is an asshole for not being there, right..
that's fighting smart.Not when you have no real reason to give the whip away to others cos there to busy training. when again you can do both. also what sort of training, spans that long. If you'd said looking for a cure , I could have seen more logic to your point, but again that doesn't mean leave the whip behind. The reason has to be they where made to give it up.
Yeah but you are, so don't sugar coat it #sorrynotsorry
But all this other stuff is just fan fiction until proof is presented.All we know is the Belmont's left, there are many ideas but the only real facts are is that they left. So your idea is also fan fiction, as you your self have presented no proof expect to you the idea of them disappearing to train fits better for you.
be mindful of this and be courteous to others when debating. By all means, please prove that the examples I used were wrong.I think what this comes down to is that your unhappy that i disagreed with your point, and you ask me to diss prove you, but it makes no snese to just give the whip up when your Richter.
@Guy Belmont You clearly are cherry-picking when I've explained my ideas and stated the Belmonts needed to get stronger to kill Dracula once and for all, because you know, he keeps coming back !!? :rollseyes: #agreetodisagreeLook I was also not going to talk about this anymore but I just have to know,
"you said it your self julius whent in to battle with a weaken whip"
This is all I'm answering because it's the most ridiculous line in your post and I literally never said this. In AoS' ending Julius states the VK's power is fading, presumably because chaos has now subsided and Soma prevented himself from becoming Dark Lord. Julius goes into the events of DoS with a nerfed VK #facts
Movie or novel? I don't recall this being in the novel.
I don't understand what you're asking because I've been answering the same thing all along.I read that the whole shame thing was not the main reason, as I read that IGA had no idea why he left, or why they couldn't 'touch the whip I've heard that the shame thing was never really confirmed. and what i'm asking is
In the radio drama (Japan only) my understanding is that initially Richter stopped using the VK and went into hiding with Annette out of shame. This has been discussed and referenced in this thread https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=9340.0 which also mentions Belmonts not touching the whip.
I read that the whole shame thing was not the main reason, as I read that IGA had no idea why he left, or why they couldn't 'touch the whip I've heard that the shame thing was never really confirmed.
my point is the weaken whip never came in to my points. aside from showing that they will fight untill the end.Okay, no bother. Disregard.
my idea only coverd why the belmonts left the whip till 1999.Okay, understood.
Not what happen afterwould in AoS. so why did you bring up that at all. That what I'mI brought it up to explain an idea that the Belmonts acquire a significant power boost when the VK is at full power. The difference between Julius in AoS and DoS being a prime example. The narrative reason being that the VK was "powered down" after the ending of AoS.
asking
ohhhh wait is your point that after SoTN the whip weaken so they left it to train to power the whip back up?It did but that's not my point, moving on.
cos other wise i don't see how we got from richter leaveing the whip to find a way to
cure them selfs from being affect by evil. To the whip being wekend?
If you're saying you've read or heard something otherwise or there's a citation from Iga himself, would you please be so kind as to provide this.I remember reading this a long time ago, for my fan work, as I needed a reason why they would not be able to use there whip
I brought it up to explain an idea that the Belmonts acquire a significant power boost when the VK is at full power. The difference between Julius in AoS and DoS being a prime example. The narrative reason being that the VK was "powered down" after the ending of AoS.In the games story he was no different, even doing something that soma thought should imposable, the only reason he lost was cos he was not the main character, sort like how Trevor took a back seat to hector. and if your going to blame anything for
I'm not focusing on context here, I'm focusing on the behaviour (power boost) of the fully powered VK with a true-to-the-throne Belmont wielding it.
Are you saying this idea in bold is canon or is it your theory?
So again our idea seem to clash and i don't think we will ever agree, so lets just leave it here. :)
Mathias assuming Vlad's name makes more sense than somehow becoming the son of Vlad the Dragon, but it's still a weirdly underdeveloped plot point. It really just comes across as IGA having watched Coppola's Dracula and wanting to do his own twist on the prologue.Personally, I think "Dracula" is a symbol of who Mathias is. He is the successor of Walter Bernhard, and I've always considered Walter to be CV's "Dracul". He wears red dragon armor, and has dragon heads for his knee guards. Mathias uses the Crimson Stone to steal his soul and use it to become a powerful vampire, becoming "Dracula".
Humperdoo!
Quincey's a bachelor who is there to woo Lucy. In the CV's depiction, I could see him being a widower looking for a woman to love and that could be a mother figure to his young son.I Have read this some where before, was that ever in the canon? or is it just one of those fan ideas that have been around for so long that its almost canon. I only ask as I can't find where I read it.
I Have read this some where before, was that ever in the canon? or is it just one of those fan ideas that have been around for so long that its almost canon. I only ask as I can't find where I read it.I could be a fan theory (not sure if they mention it for any of the Bloodlines material). I just brought it up because it seems like a logical reason why he'd bring young John to Europe. Though one could be liberal with the Stoker's Dracula reference because we don't know how CV's version of those events went down. For all we know, Quincey wasn't a part of the whole "courting Lucy" bit and came over after hearing rumors of Dracula arriving in England.