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Offline e105beta

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SCV4 set up the atmosphere, but also added some hints of Progressive Rock into the mix(some give me a Rick Wakeman feel). In a way, it was the best of both worlds, which is what I want to see in more "cinematic" CVs. You can have atmophere building music, as well as something more pumping. Many people credit the whole "epic" sound of cinematic music to Hans Zimmer, but even he has a heavily diverse style. He can do epic, and in the same time, switch to something heavily earwormy and melodic, then switch to something electric, driven by guitars and rock. I don't believe there is just ONE style that can only work. It's a matter of careful choice. You can go purely cinematic, but just because you CAN doens't mean you SHOULD, nor does it mean it's the ONLY way to go.

I don't think there's necessarily automatic merit in switching styles within a single body of work. If you're trying to establish a musical identity, then that only works against it. Going from slow waltz to electric guitars (Symphony of the Night) creates a very eclectic soundtrack that I don't think is always the best route. And I'd argue that LoS and LoS2 did have both atmosphere building music and music to pump you up, the difference is just that the music to pump you up does it very differently than older Castlevania's did. It's a rhythmic, bombastic build up versus an all out BPM fest, but at that point it comes down to a stylistic preference.

But I actually thought Lords of Shadow 2 did a good job of moving away from samey-song syndrome and did well in adding some variety within the songs. While the only theme that really got stuck in my head in LoS was Hunting Path, there were quite a few songs in LoS2 that I thought really distinguished themselves from just being purely "epic". Note, I don't think an "epic" soundtrack is a bad thing, but I acknowledge where the original's soundtrack came up short.

Flame already posted one of the best, but there are a few examples:
(click to show/hide)

Offline Maedhros

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SCIV definitely has some atmostpheric tones. Maybe that's why I simply can't really see what's so great about the game. In fact, I think it was a downgrade compared to CV 3 in almost every way, except gameplay, which was refined for the better.

But I didn't have a SNES when I was a kid, and it was the first game of many people, I'm certain this is one of the reasons.

And even if SCIV does have these, they majority of the soundtrack is still composed of strong melodies and catchy tones, just like any Castlevania game. In fact, some of the strongest melodies on the series are present in SCIV. So I don't see how it relates with LoS at all and can't agree with people who think like this.

LoS was the first Castlevania game that I simply stopped listening the music and used a custom soundtrack while playing it. It was sooo boring. LoS 2 was a bit better, so I could finish the game without doing this, though.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 04:41:20 PM by Maedhros »

Offline Ahasverus

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I didn't super liked CVIV either. Weird.

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Offline Intersection

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The way I see it, it's less a matter of atmosphere than it is a matter of character. Because that's what most of Araujo's pieces lack; a sense of movement, an inner drive, a distinctiveness that's key to successful composition. In the LoS series, you never know where the music is going, or even why it's going there -- it just arbitrarily shifts back and forth, mulling through empty harmonies without substance or spirit. Battle themes? They're your standard video game war beats, never getting past the indistinct, percussion-pounding mashup we've gotten used to in combat-heavy entertainment.
Araujo's music doesn't sound bad, but it doesn't do anything to sound good, either. Most of it is boring and forgettable, only passable in the games it's composed for, with little to stand for on its own. And while there definitely are some inspired and well-crafted pieces scattered around the Lords trilogy, they're always the exception rather than the norm.
It's not a crime: there are games with far worse soundtracks than the LoS trio's. But it's just disappointing to hear in a series that's well known for its distinctive musical flair.
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Offline DragonSlayr81

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I don't think there's necessarily automatic merit in switching styles within a single body of work. If you're trying to establish a musical identity, then that only works against it. Going from slow waltz to electric guitars (Symphony of the Night) creates a very eclectic soundtrack that I don't think is always the best route. And I'd argue that LoS and LoS2 did have both atmosphere building music and music to pump you up, the difference is just that the music to pump you up does it very differently than older Castlevania's did. It's a rhythmic, bombastic build up versus an all out BPM fest, but at that point it comes down to a stylistic preference.
Musical identity is whatever the composer chooses it to be. If it's a compliation of different styles, then that's it's identity. You don't have to like it, just like I don't have to like the identity MS and Oscar chose for the LoS games.

Personally, I'm to the belief that we aren't aware(innately) of how other routes of travel would fair and even after we've experienced ONE particular route, we might think that route is the best(even though we only think that because it's the only one we've experienced). Many feel Oscar's composition fits the LoS perfectly, while others don't. But, had things been differently, and a different style was applied, what would we be thinking? Now, that many have listed to Oscar's songs, they can sort of guess what it might be, but they'll never REALLY know. My sister, who was big into Backstreet Boys and N*SYNC at the time told me, "How could anybody like Duran Duran? They're so cheesy!". I told her, "If you were a teen back then, you'd probably like them too!". She said she wouldn't, but really, her perception was only molded by her experience to that point. Who knows what she would've been like if she was a teen in the 80s. Maybe she'd like Duran Duran, or maybe she'd be into Depeche Mode, who knows? That being said, though the past is the past, I tend to keep my mind open regarding these types of things. You don't really know until you know, and even then, there are thousands of other ways things could've gone down(and thousands of ways they still COULD in the future).

Offline e105beta

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Musical identity is whatever the composer chooses it to be. If it's a compliation of different styles, then that's it's identity. You don't have to like it, just like I don't have to like the identity MS and Oscar chose for the LoS games.

Sure, it's an identity, and I won't deny that when done right it can work, but from my experience, it typically results in a weaker identity than sticking with a singular style. Notable exceptions to that rule tend to be zany, cartoony, or crossover games.

IMO, the reason Castlevania gets away with it more often than not is because usually when a track deviates from its game's stylistic baseline, it's a familiar track from a previous game. That way you're still thinking "Oh, this is Castlevania! I remember this song from *insert title here*

Personally, I'm to the belief that we aren't aware(innately) of how other routes of travel would fair and even after we've experienced ONE particular route, we might think that route is the best(even though we only think that because it's the only one we've experienced). Many feel Oscar's composition fits the LoS perfectly, while others don't. But, had things been differently, and a different style was applied, what would we be thinking? Now, that many have listed to Oscar's songs, they can sort of guess what it might be, but they'll never REALLY know. My sister, who was big into Backstreet Boys and N*SYNC at the time told me, "How could anybody like Duran Duran? They're so cheesy!". I told her, "If you were a teen back then, you'd probably like them too!". She said she wouldn't, but really, her perception was only molded by her experience to that point. Who knows what she would've been like if she was a teen in the 80s. Maybe she'd like Duran Duran, or maybe she'd be into Depeche Mode, who knows? That being said, though the past is the past, I tend to keep my mind open regarding these types of things. You don't really know until you know, and even then, there are thousands of other ways things could've gone down(and thousands of ways they still COULD in the future).

Well seeing that the primary argument is that Yamane/old-school style music should have been applied to LoS2, it's easy to make an educated guess on what the result would be by playing older soundtracks while playing LoS2. From what Araujo has said, it's not like they sat down, looked at each other, and went "Ok, no experimentation, we're going with a completely new style of soundtrack". They experimented with it, and made a decision.

Sure, you can never be 100% certain, but life isn't about being 100% certain. "But it could have been better!" Maybe it could have been, or maybe it could have been worse.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 01:16:29 PM by e105beta »

Offline Dremn

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Sigh...

I just want the music to sound like Castlevania again. Not Lords of Shadow.


Offline Flame

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Sigh...

I just want the music to sound like Castlevania again. Not Lords of Shadow.
And what exactly does castlevania sound like?
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Offline Mike Belmont

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And what exactly does castlevania sound like?

With a few years of Lords of Shadow lore and music, maybe a group of persons prefer that music style, because is like the "modern games". As for me, classic Castlevania sounds like a perfect combination of catchy music with a little of terror movies vibe.

But it's just disappointing to hear in a series that's well known for its distinctive musical flair.

As I said before, one of the main reasons of my love for the saga is the music, being CVIII my first one. Hearing tracks like Clockwork while I climb to the top of the Clook Tower, or fighting in an Atlantis Shrine with Aquarius in the background, defines to me how Castlevania music sounds. Yes, I prefer the old school music, and not only with Castlevania...
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Offline Maedhros

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And what exactly does castlevania sound like?
The series has more than 25 years. You should know how it sounds like since the first game if you're a fan.

Offline Mike Belmont

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The series has more than 25 years. You should know how it sounds like since the first game if you're a fan.

Absolutely this. To the ones who grown up alongside Castlevania (like me), is an easy question to answer. But its true that maybe even 80s/90s gamers will prefer the new direction of music in the saga. Every point of view is respectable. But for me, I prefer the original one...
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Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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And what exactly does castlevania sound like?

To put it simply, having music that is actually catchy and memorable as opposed to LOS's music which was built more in ambiance and the players mood and such.

Not saying its bad if you like such music, but lets not act like we don't know what castlevania music is normally like given its long history, that includes classicvanias as well as metroidvanias.


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Offline Flame

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Thing is, saying "I want it to sound like Castlevania" is a very broad thing to say. Since Castlevania has had different musical styles over the years. Sure, catchy music is a trademark, but it's hardly exclusive. it's just catchy music.

For example, LoI has a different sound than say, Castlevania 1. And Rondo has a different sound than say, SCIV. i dont think you can really say CV has a definite "sound" that it can "sound like". I feel that's a very difficult thing to describe, and ends up just being subjective.
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Offline e105beta

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Thing is, saying "I want it to sound like Castlevania" is a very broad thing to say. Since Castlevania has had different musical styles over the years. Sure, catchy music is a trademark, but it's hardly exclusive. it's just catchy music.

For example, LoI has a different sound than say, Castlevania 1. And Rondo has a different sound than say, SCIV. i dont think you can really say CV has a definite "sound" that it can "sound like". I feel that's a very difficult thing to describe, and ends up just being subjective.

Exactly. Even excellent songs like Wood Carving Partita, Dance of Pales, Dark Palace of Water, or House of Sacred Remains are very different beasts from the series's "roots", i.e. Wicked Child, Bloody Tears, or Dwelling of Doom. Or, for example, compare the Rondo of Blood OST with the Order of Ecclesia OST. Very distinct styles. Then you have songs like Anti-Soul Mysteries Lab, or most of the Castlevania IV soundtrack which attempt a completely different direction all together. I'd say the only real common denominator is "catchy" music, but that term is pretty much arbitrary.

Offline KaZudra

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To put it simply, having music that is actually catchy and memorable as opposed to LOS's music which was built more in ambiance and the players mood and such.

Not saying its bad if you like such music, but lets not act like we don't know what castlevania music is normally like given its long history, that includes classicvanias as well as metroidvanias.

inb4 Castlevania 64


Castlevania really doesn't have a musical identity, the series has went through most genres and still manages to make each attempt good (most cases)

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