Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: ventapael on May 19, 2013, 08:20:31 AM
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Hi folks, I'm new here! I played the original Castlevania and it was great. I never could beat the game though. Next I played LOS. I really enjoyed that game immensely. It's my favorite game so far. I recently downloaded SOTN and I like it a lot to. I am considering purchasing a DS Lite to play one of the CV games for it. I am trying to decide which game to get out of Order Of Ecclesia, Aria Of Sorrow, Dawn Of Sorrow, or Portrait Of Ruin, Order Of Ecclesia''s level design looks the best to me, but It seems like it is a really hard game from what people say. I'm just worried that if I get OOE it's going to be waaaay too hard for me. On the other hand I hear people say all the DS games are easy though. Do you guys think it would be worth it to buy a Nintendo DS just to play OOE, or perhaps one of the other CV titles it has to offer? Also, what is it that makes OOE apparently so much harder?
Thanks.
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If you need a reference point, then SotN is the easiest Castlevania game there is.
OoE doesn't let you stand in front of the enemy and mash the attack button to win. You have to actually move out of the way of attacks and stuff. They give you really good mobility to do so though. It is not as hard as Castlevania 1 though. I personally liked OoE's difficulty, as it was refreshing.
Aria of Sorrow is also a good launching point. It's easier than OoE, but still good.
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I think it's worth it just for Order of Ecclesia. It's my favorite of the DS games. When my apartment got robbed, and I had to replace my handheld Castlevanias, it was the first one I went for. It is difficult at first, but you get used to the gameplay. Bosses are especially difficult until you learn how to fight them. I don't think you can get away with tanking out many if any of them.
Dawn of Sorrow is easier, but has a lot of cool features. For instance, the extra character mode has a story to it, and lets you switch between three characters on the go. It also plays a lot like Symphony of the Night, so if you liked that one, I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy this one. Lots of weapons and such, plus a cool magic system with the soul collection.
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Well, there are a lot of good games on the DS, so...
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Get a 3DS. Plays all the DS games plus the 3DS games. And the fucker is durable. I dropped mine on asphalt so many times. Just chipped the case but everything else still works just fine.
OoE's level design is shit. IGA's metroidvanias suffer from horrible level design. SotN was probably the most creative of the bunch, but I haven't played all of them yet. OoE and AoS (I think it was AoS) are cookie-cutter games. There is still some entertainment value. There are some puzzle elements. IGA's monsters are sometimes fun to encounter because it's so anime-ish. Using the vacuum on Persephone always makes me smile.
As for difficulty, it is definitely one of the harder IGA metroidvanias, but doable. I finally beat it. The hardest part for me was getting through the Cave Of Trials or whatever, which you need to do in order to get the best ending.
But yeah, level design sucked.
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If you're going to get a regular DS get a DSlite so you can play Circle of the Moon and Aria of Sorrow as well. (The running system on Harmony of Dissonance probably wouldn't be very good for delicate DS shoulder buttons.)
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If you like Symphony of the Night, chances are you're gonna like Order of Ecclesia too. It's a little bit harder, but you can always take your time to level up in any gven area until you feel comfortable to move on. I'm not sure about the level design being better in Ecclesia than in the other two DS games though. I dunno where people get that, but maybe it's just me. The clock tower in Portrait of Ruin beats the crap out of the one in Ecclesia, for example.
And if you like Ecclesia, you're probably gonna enjoy Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin as well. People tend to say that they're vastly different from each other, but anyone unfamiliar with the Metroidvania formula would be hardpressed to notice much difference whatsoever, except how the levels are laid out and what kind of abilities you have. I like them all, but the novelty of the genre will probably wear off a little for every game you play, because they're so incredibly similar.
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Aw someone got butthurt over IGA's level designs being called shit. It's a fact, unfortunately. IGAvanias have consistently had shitty level design. The whole castle in any game is comprised of fewer than 50 rooms, give or take. The games are still fun and OoE is still hard, but it has nothing to do with level design. The puzzles are okay (that floating spikes room pissed me off), but that's like, what 5 rooms out of the whole game that are actually "creative"? SOTN, LOI, AOS, and OOE all show a profound lack of creativity. Hell, I think some of the rooms in later games were straight out of SotN too. Even the enemies are cookie-cutter layouts. They just ripped superbeasts and minibosses from SOTN and slapped them into future products as minor enemies. The only thing IGA's games really had going for them were the original enemy creativity and story. IGA's bosses were fun and challenging. IGA's monsters, at least when they were original and not cookie-cut from previous games in his series, were artistic and colorful and sometimes downright entertaining (e.g., Skeleton Butler, Persephone, Student Witch, Gravedigger).
But if you think IGA's level designer knew what the hell he was doing, you're just a brainwashed fanboy (or fangirl, whoever the fuck you are) who can't tell kopi luwak from dog poo. No offense.
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Frankly though, I think people would be less butthurt if you were more tactful about it.
And I did not expect you to whip out a pony avatar.
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Aw someone got butthurt over IGA's level designs being called shit.
But if you think IGA's level designer knew what the hell he was doing, you're just a brainwashed fanboy (or fangirl, whoever the fuck you are) who can't tell kopi luwak from dog poo. No offense.
What just happened here? I don't know where in my post I sounded butthurt, or where I come across as a fanboy of any kind? Or maybe you were replying to someone else? Hmm.
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Well, I did see a couple downvotes on his post.
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Well, I did see a couple downvotes on his post.
Ooh, ok. I don't pay attention to the voting thing, only posts. Sorry about that, carry on everyone! ;D
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You could literally run through some of the stages in OoE (well, jumping occasionally so you don't run into an enemy on foot). Even World 1-1 on Super Mario Bros. took more skill to get through than some of the stages in OoE. Some of the castle areas on AoS showed much more creativity. But alas, the highlights in OoE were the bosses (eff you, Blackmore!) and a handful of enemies. I like both games, but they're hardly epitomes of Castlevania. That is all.
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Wow, thanks for all of the responses! Also, maybe I should have said art design instead of level design as some of the screenshots I've seen from the game look fantastic. Portrait Of Ruin is starting to seem more, and more intriguing though as well. To me it sort of seems like it's the most outlandish one of the bunch. I dunno. I'm probably going to go for either OOE, or POR.
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PoR, OoE, even DoS are all good games. We, as in the members of this forum, are die-hard Castlevania fans that nitpick the shit out of these games because we're just spoiled like that. However, I'm sure the "casual" CV fan or casual gamer in general will have no problem with the level design, aesthetic, etc. We sometimes see flaws in those games that may drive us crazy, but that doesn't mean you or anyone else shouldn't play them and enjoy it for what it is. Trust me, there are VERY FEW Castlevania games that are deemed "horrible" or near-unplayable.
PoR is a fun game, let us know if you get stuck or need any help! :)
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It's worth to buy anything in the world for anything Castlevania, let alone a console for any Castlevania game!
Order of Ecclesia is great, but yes, it is hard.
I recommend you play every portable Castlevania available for NDS; every one of the 6 games for GBA and NDS.
Also, get a PSP when you can, so you can play Dracula X Chronicles, Symphony of the Night and Rondo of Blood.
You won't regret it.
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^ I agree with this.
It was hard finding CoTM and HoD several years after their release but it was worth it. hehehe.
My most protected handheld games are my CV ones.
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Here's what ya gotta do:
Get your hands on Circle of the Moon. Beat that a few times, then play Aria of Sorrow. Once you have that down you have advanced to Ds titles. Personally i would start with Dawn of Sorrow since Aria should still be pretty fresh. Then take up arms with Jonathan and Charlotte in PoR and finish up strong with OOE (easily the hardest of the DS titles). This all should be done with a Ds lite; a lot less bulk than 3DS unless u want to get MoF eventually. Hope this helps ;D
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I wouldn't recommend playing CotM first to him, I'd say CotM's even harder than OoE.
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Thanks for bringing up Dracula X Chronicles, that one slipped by me. It looks amazing! I think I might need to get a hold of a PSP now as well. I think I'm just going to pick up Portrait Of War since I can get it for free at Play N Trade right now if I get a DS Lite there.
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Portrait of War? :P
Yes, Circle of the Moon is harder than Order of Ecclesia in my opinion.
Also, there is other game, Harmony of Dissonance, for GBA.
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ooops, Portrait Of Ruin I mean. :-X. My bad.
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I'll second the guy who said you should get a DSlite. If you like Symphony of the Night, there's a very good chance you'll like all three DS titles, and all three Gameboy Advance titles as well. A DSlite can play all six, plus Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission if you're still itching for more of that style of game afterward.
But I'd hate to see you get a DS that can't play GBA games, only to find yourself looking for a copy of Aria of Sorrow later on. It is one of the most highly regarded Symphony of the Night clones, after all.
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If you like Symphony of the Night, chances are you're gonna like Order of Ecclesia too. It's a little bit harder, but you can always take your time to level up in any gven area until you feel comfortable to move on.
I think Order of Ecclesia is considerably more difficult and intelligent from a technical game design perspective than Symphony of the Night. One will never defeat the likes of Brachyura, Gravedorcus, Albus, Goliath, Blackmore, or any of the bosses without a sound strategy that involves more than just attacking the enemy. I don't even think you'll get through an area like that. You can go through the entirety of Symphony of the Night without much attention to battle strategy.
Seeing as how I believe Order of Ecclesia to be not only one of the best metroidvania titles, but one of the best Castlevania titles period, I certainly think it's worth it for someone who likes games like it to buy a DS to play that game in particular. However, for whatever it's worth, I recommend Aria of Sorrow above Order of Ecclesia. I think AoS is the most all around solid metroidvania game.
And yet, my personal favorite is Harmony of Dissonance, but that one... my appreciation for it is different than it is for the other two, and on a somewhat different level. I'm not sure if HoD would be as instantly captivating as the other games would be, but it is the most fascinatingly nuanced and enthralling, but due to things that are somewhat abstract. I'm not sure if features like that would connect with you.
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u guys! CotM isnt harder than OOE. Harder to navigate yes. But if you are playing on Vampire Killer mode its pretty simple to kill most of the enemies when Nathan sometimes dishes out 1k damage from the very beginning! Poor old Shanoa on the other hand can only fight until her power depletes. Personally i prefer to play Metroivanias with no item use. Not one potion or food item or antidote. If im gonna die, imma die swinging. When it comes to that aspect of it, I have died way more playing OOE. The enemies seem smarter in that game (is that even possible?) Ive gotten Nathan to level 85 in VK mode running the arena for years, still losing at times. The hardest thing about CotM is Theif mode imo. I've gotten Shanoa to level 55 (nothing fancy) through regular playthrough. NEVER beat Albus mode 1 time yet but i do pop the game back in to try and finish it as its currently one of the only games i haven't finished. I will not take anything away from the difficulty of either title, but simply share my experience. But if i start using that heart fountain in town in OOE then it would probably get too easy for me and i would lose interest fast
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I think Order of Ecclesia is considerably more difficult and intelligent from a technical game design perspective than Symphony of the Night. One will never defeat the likes of Brachyura, Gravedorcus, Albus, Goliath, Blackmore, or any of the bosses without a sound strategy that involves more than just attacking the enemy. I don't even think you'll get through an area like that. You can go through the entirety of Symphony of the Night without much attention to battle strategy.
Seeing as how I believe Order of Ecclesia to be not only one of the best metroidvania titles, but one of the best Castlevania titles period, I certainly think it's worth it for someone who likes games like it to buy a DS to play that game in particular. However, for whatever it's worth, I recommend Aria of Sorrow above Order of Ecclesia. I think AoS is the most all around solid metroidvania game.
And yet, my personal favorite is Harmony of Dissonance, but that one... my appreciation for it is different than it is for the other two, and on a somewhat different level. I'm not sure if HoD would be as instantly captivating as the other games would be, but it is the most fascinatingly nuanced and enthralling, but due to things that are somewhat abstract. I'm not sure if features like that would connect with you.
I get exactly what you say about everything.
My favourite game ever is Portrait of Ruin, but if I had to be objective, I'd say Order of Eclessia is the best MetroidVania, I guess, and best Castlevania even, though I like PoR better.
Aria of Sorrow is perfect in my opinion. An argument can be made of it to be the best MetroidVania.
About difficulty I think OoE is the 2nd hardest MetroidVania title, because Circle of the Moon proved to be really, really hard to me. There's some areas I couldn't complete. And you can't level your way through the game in CotM.
And about Harmony of Dissonance, there's a strong sense of atmosphere and (precisely) fascination about that game that only few people seem to get, including the soundtrack. I hated it at first because it didn't sound like CV to my ears, but I tried to understand it for what it is, and in the end I really liked it.
Everything gets together perfectly in HoD for what it tries to be.
NEVER beat Albus mode
Neither did I. I could never beat the final boss.
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I get exactly what you say about everything.
My favourite game ever is Portrait of Ruin, but if I had to be objective, I'd say Order of Eclessia is the best MetroidVania, I guess, and best Castlevania even, though I like PoR better.
Aria of Sorrow is perfect in my opinion. An argument can be made of it to be the best MetroidVania.
About difficulty I think OoE is the 2nd hardest MetroidVania title, because Circle of the Moon proved to be really, really hard to me. There's some areas I couldn't complete. And you can't level your way through the game in CotM.
And about Harmony of Dissonance, there's a strong sense of atmosphere and (precisely) fascination about that game that only few people seem to get, including the soundtrack. I hated it at first because it didn't sound like CV to my ears, but I tried to understand it for what it is, and in the end I really liked it.
Everything gets together perfectly in HoD for what it tries to be.
Neither did I. I could never beat the final boss.
That Zombie Dragon boss in CotM kicked my butt so much. Such a great game. Almost all of the bosses in it were tough but still a lot of fun. And the castle itself is tougher than most Metroidvanias. Never did play any of the unlockable alternate modes, maybe I will sometime. AoS isn't as hard but it just nails the atmosphere, art and characters. As I've said before I didn't enjoy HoD and don't understand what others see in it, but I'm glad they enjoy it just the same.
u guys! CotM isnt harder than OOE. Harder to navigate yes. But if you are playing on Vampire Killer mode its pretty simple to kill most of the enemies when Nathan sometimes dishes out 1k damage from the very beginning! Poor old Shanoa on the other hand can only fight until her power depletes. Personally i prefer to play Metroivanias with no item use. Not one potion or food item or antidote. If im gonna die, imma die swinging. When it comes to that aspect of it, I have died way more playing OOE.
Yeah but that's more of a personal challenge you've set for yourself/that comes with alternate modes in replays and won't affect the difficulty for most new or casual players.
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About difficulty I think OoE is the 2nd hardest MetroidVania title, because Circle of the Moon proved to be really, really hard to me.
Hmm. I'm not sure if Circle of the Moon is more challenging to me, but I know it is not as satisfyingly challenging to me as Order of Ecclesia. I don't feel its challenge is as much a result of smart and clever design as OoE's is. That's not to say I think CotM is totally broken, but I think there are more loose ends with that one, like seriously low item drops. And when you do get item drops, most of the time they don't even help much. It's like, "Congratulations. Here's a potion. It's super rare and it will only restore 5 HP." I know that's an exaggeration, but I think you may get the point : p
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And just to clarify something...
My favourite game ever is Portrait of Ruin, but if I had to be objective, I'd say Order of Eclessia is the best MetroidVania, I guess, and best Castlevania even, though I like PoR better.
... I don't personally think Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia are better than Harmony of Dissonance. I think they're better at certain things and may be easier to readily appreciate for most people, though.
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EDIT:
And just to clarify something...
... I don't personally think Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia are better than Harmony of Dissonance. I think they're better at certain things and may be easier to readily appreciate for most people, though.
I guess that's where we get to the "Opinions are like assholes" ("Everybody has one and they all stink.") part of the discussion. Just because I don't like HoD doesn't mean I don't understand it. Though for full disclosure I did find the twin castle system and castle layout needlessly convoluted. I haven't played OoE yet but I think the story, gameplay, art, music and level design on AoS and CotM are far better than those in HoD. I know what it's like to be a big fan of a game in the series that gets ragged on though, in my case it's "Legacy of Darkness" which I think gets put down a lot by people who've never played it, and I respect your opinion. As the old Latin axiom went De gustibus non est disputandum. "There is no disputing about tastes."
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"Congratulations. Here's a potion. It's super rare and it will only restore 5 HP."
That's exactly the kind of thing that made CotM so hard for me. I had to play for hours to get all the drops, and I just could get most of them, but not everything, not to mention I was never able to complete the map because there were some areas I could never beat, and leveling up is not an option in CotM. It's the only Castlevania title I wasn't able to get EVERYTHING, with the exception of Albus mode final boss in OoE and The Forgotten One in LoI.
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One thing that irked me about Harmony of Dissonance was the fact that there were no detailed enemy descriptions! There's even space for at least a couple lines of text in the beastiary! Why did they omit that? Also, the characters should've been fleshed out a bit more. I think there should've been 1 or 2 more side characters to make the story more interesting, perhaps a cleric that wants to kill Maxim for being "Dracula's vessel," thus Juste having to stop him from murdering his friend. Stuff like that. There was also some translation errors here & there (For instance, the "Bullet Tip" being mistranslated from "Christopher's Soul." Not important, but still. The game is full of throwbacks from classics & that Christopher nod would've been a nice addition). Also, several of the bosses were downright lame & lazy (MAX SLIMER).
Other than that, I love the game's aesthetic & graphics (despite some areas lacking a "cohesive" feel, but it was more chaotic and I accept that), and I believe it was the first or perhaps only Castlevania that I truly got "lost" in, as in didn't know where to go at certain points. Although frustrating at first, I liked that; a true sense of getting lost in Dracula's castle. Despite all being "metroidvanias," CotM HoD & AoS all have a unique atmosphere from one another.
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Totally. They are very different.
Also, PoR and OoE and very different from the GBA games, and DoS is a mix between what was about to come and what came previously.
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I know what it's like to be a big fan of a game in the series that gets ragged on though, in my case it's "Legacy of Darkness" which I think gets put down a lot by people who've never played it, and I respect your opinion. As the old Latin axiom went De gustibus non est disputandum. "There is no disputing about tastes."
Huh? Oh, I really don't care. People can think whatever they want about whatever they want. That might sound disrespectful, but it's not meant to be taken that way.
I wasn't posting for the sake of any kind of debate or to counter anyone's opinion.
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Fair enough certainly, I was mostly just trying to head off any disagreement or argument that might come from our strong differing opinions. As you say differing opinions/tastes in art aren't something that should be fought over.
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Um... well, if people want to do that, then whatever, I guess. I do not think there are any rules as to what should and shouldn't be done for everyone on a subject like that. Some people like doing that, and when it's controlled and regulated well, it shouldn't harm anyone.
What my original point to Phil was that though I think OoE and AoS do certain things better than HoD, I do not think they are as good of games in general as HoD is, considering them all as whole pieces. I believe Phil took my earlier post to mean that I like HoD better, but I think the others are better games. That's not my view, though. I like HoD better and think it's a better game than the others, too.
Really not interested in listing all the points as to why I feel that way right now, though, and I don't even think that's what this thread is about.
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I understand. I really like HoD too.
By the way, it's Pfil, Phil is a man's name.
But no problem :)
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By the way, it's Pfil, Phil is a man's name.
But no problem :)
The easiest way not to confuse the two is to remember Bondage Fairies.
Off topic, but why did you decide to use that name?
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Um... well, if people want to do that, then whatever, I guess. I do not think there are any rules as to what should and shouldn't be done for everyone on a subject like that. Some people like doing that, and when it's controlled and regulated well, it shouldn't harm anyone.
Of course, having passion in life about the things you enjoy is good. It's only when people become angry/upset/offended that others would dare have differing opinions or assume that the opinions of others are less vaild that it gets bad. But as you say we're getting off topic. Speaking of off topic.
The easiest way not to confuse the two is to remember Bondage Fairies.
Off topic, but why did you decide to use that name?
I won't presume to speak for her but my thoughts on the subject would just be "why not"? I'm sure we've got names inspired from things all over the creative spectrum on the forum. My name comes from the book "The Wind in the Willows" for example. It's nice to reference the things you enjoy when creating an online handle :)
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I used to read it frequently during my teen years, and I find Pfil to be so cute and naive, but also other things...
You know what I'm talking about ;)
And I've always had a thing for fairies... I just loved that aspect of Curse of Darkness, it was great to seek for all the possible forms of fairies. I even named my fairy Pfil. And I expected more from Lords of Shadow's fairies, but I was happy when I found the first ones.
And yes, why not?
But my first choice was Charlotte, but (I don't know why) I kept going to a page that told me that Charlotte was a spam name, so in the end, after trying from time to time for some weeks, I decided to choose another name, and I've always been a fan of fairies and anime characters, so Pfil was accurate to my personality.
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Order of Ecclesia is the one DS Castlevania I haven't played (Largely because I was burned out on Castlevanias designed in the spirit of Metroid). I've heard it's challenging and repetitive in design, yet has a lot of charm and good ideas mixed in. Dawn of Sorrow is more solidly designed from top to bottom than Portrait of Ruin, but Portrait of Ruin has more interesting game mechanics and eccentricities mixed into it. The Gameboy Advance-era Castlevanias play on DS Lite, as well. Aria of Sorrow is basically a better designed, but less graphically powerful version of its sequel, Dawn of Sorrow. Circle of the Moon is sort of a mash-up of Symphony of the Night and pre-SotN titles. Harmony of Dissonance is like Circle of the Moon, but leans more heavily toward Symphony of the Night in sensibilities, and is thus a lot easier. Castlevania 1 NES CLASSIC is also available for GBA. It's the starting point of Castlevania, and is solid in design and pretty challenging, although rather "plain" compared to later Castlevanias. (But you said you already played it)
If you have any way to check out Super Castlevania IV, via Wii Virtual Console for example, I 100% recommend it. Outside of Symphony of the Night, it's one of the highest ranked Castlevania games, and for good reason. Moody visuals and amazing action abound. The NES' Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse is another top 5 (or higher) Castlevania title. It can be pretty hard, but it's a great game, and it introduced Alucard in the series as an alternate helper character. Honestly, there are a lot of pre-SotN games worth playing. A lot of people would recommend Rondo of Blood--a middle ground between the earlier titles and SotN--but I'd say Dracula X (SNES), Bloodlines (Genesis), and Belmont's Revenge (Original Gameboy) are very high up there if and when they become widely available again. (That said, Rondo of Blood is easier to play and find). If you like more "questing," Castlevania II: Simon's Quest for NES has some of the most obscure puzzles in the series, and in some ways was an early spiritual predecessor to SotN. The N64 games, Castlevania (64) and Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness (Enhanced remix/prequel to the first N64 game) are really interesting mixtures of classic and later Castlevania titles in 3D. They're rough around the edges, and get mixed reputations because of it, but are very ambitious and atmospheric titles worth looking at. For my money, they're easily the best 3D titles in the series.
Keep an open mind with Castlevania. It has many different styles, and each player/fan has their own favorite mixtures of gameplay styles.
Last I checked, here's how to find the most available Castlevania titles on modern systems these days (via official download):
-Castlevania 1-4 & The Adventure ReBirth* (Wii Virtual Console) *The Adventure Rebirth is a Wiiware exclusive that almost completely re-imagines the Original Gameboy game, The Adventure.
-Rondo of Blood (PSP or PSP Vita*, Wii Virtual Console) *PSP/Vita Version includes a new 2.5D remix & a port of SotN, but I've heard the visual fidelity of the original Rondo isn't as good as it is on Wii.
-Symphony of the Night (PSP, PS3, XBox360).
-The Adventure* (Nintendo 3DS eShop) *A simple, charming, yet extremely difficult game in the series, partially do to intentionally sluggish controls.
-Harmony of Despair* (PS3 and XBOX360) *This is an HD multi-player game
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I basically bought a DS Lite specifically for both the GBA and DS Castlevania titles. Bought the PSP solely for DXChron also - of course, after they came down in price. I only have a few other games from each system. Still slightly irked that the Snes version of Dracula X wasn't thrown in with DXChron, but then again, that wouldn't have been contractually possible due to that game being on SNES. Always emulation for that I guess.
It's actually been about two years since I played either system for Castlevania or otherwise. Been too busy with Steam games. I really should go back to Circle Of The Moon at some point.
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If you have the cash to pay for it, why not go for a 3DS-XL?
Or perhaps it is because you want a 1:1 DS screen experience, so in that regards, the DS/DSi are better choices?
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Yes, the NDS games play perfectly on a 3DS screen.
Specifically the Castlevania titles, all 3 of them look great (just as GBA titles look GREAT on a NDS).