Topic: Lords of Shadow Opinions (has Spoilers)

[RichterB]

I've officially joined the club of LoS owners. lol. Playing it on Knight mode and just cleared the Ice Titan. The first three levels, despite their quirks, were in the vein of Castlevania at least in part and I largely enjoyed them (camera complaints aside). The fourth and fifth, though, things started to get a little strange and the definition of Castlevania, even for a reboot, was getting stretched a bit. The hands-off ring puzzle (what is this, Myst?), the random fairy fanservice, goat-man Pan...and then the Ice Titan. Sure the snow setting, the titan's art direction, and some of the swinging was cool...but the whole pacing and design of the battle seems superfluous in the way it borrows from SotC. I think some build-up to the Ice Titan with a related level theme could have helped it some.

The gap-swinging left something to be desired so far. It's largely on-rails. I'm not sure it's even as good as the PS2/Wii 3D Rygar's gap-swinging so far (and definitely not as 3D as the new Bionic Commando was). As for the skill it takes, it doesn't seem as involved as that weird whip-flip mechanic in LoI. The combat in the game is pretty darn good (though probably overkill), but as of Chapter 1's conclusion, there hasn't been a lot of combat and I'm finding empty levels (IE: Level 4) that you just run through (almost like IGA's halls). It reminds me of MGS4, where you're just running from cinema to cinema. I've reset my mind to keep it open, but some of the stuff really does clash with "Castlevania." I hate to say it, but so far IGA's 3D efforts, for the most part, had better atmosphere and art direction. And this is nowhere near the N64 games in its implementation of puzzles and platforming. Liked the CV3 handshake nod, though.   I'm interested to see where this goes. The start is more rocky and random than I expected (Ice Titan so soon?). I am surprised by the naming conventions, too. Land of the Lycans? It seems like this is trying to be a more fantasy setting than European (or Transylvanian). Eh, I'm sure it'll get better.

UPDATED:

Spent some more time with it; beat the Enchanted Forest and Spider Cave and am into the Agharta place now... I'm sorry, at this point in Chapter 2, there is only a smidgen of Castlevania "feel." It's actually starting to bug me how bland the vision is. Sure, you've got all these "epic" settings like forests and caves and ruins...but they don't have much personality. It feels like I'm just on an archeological adventure like Indiana Jones or Laura Croft. Riding the boar from Twilight Princess seems out of place to say the least... I did like the spider web bridges somewhat, though. By and large, the enemies aren't particularly exciting, and I'm often just going through empty "halls" or hanging sections. The lack of variety and inspiration in the music is hurting it, too. And the camera is starting to become an serious issue. Some of this, like the hanging and the scrolls is starting to feel like chores more than fun. I've done a few trials just to try to get some more out of the levels, but I'm starting to find those boring. (I think the backtracking will be the same way). So far, I don't really know what the new "vision" is. The game doesn't seem committed to presenting a cohesive world. Actually, the vibe I get most right now is that Gabriel is somewhere in South America...a long way away from Castlevania. I'm not trying to complain, but I'm starting to grapple more with what I'm seeing.

[Kale]

1st of all, MercurySteam is composed of 50 people. That's nowhere near the 500 GTA team had.
And they had a limited budget, even Cox said it, they did their best with what they were given, and we were VERY lucky we had Kojima's money, Konami's inicial budget was laughable as always, Kojima productions gave the studio more foundings for the project. If this game is succesful, we'll see a "bigger, better and more badass" version of this game.

So, they had Konami's budget with money from Kojima. That can be big or not, kind of hard to tell. Especially if they called it a laughable budget at first but not after Kojima's input. That doesn't mean they have less than the other CV games. Which is what I was saying. It could have more than CoD and LoI put together.

Not really. Surely bigger in absolute terms, but you need to realize developing for the DS/portable consoles probably costs 1/10th of how much a next gen HD game does and they certainly didn't have 10 times the budget.

MS is a VERY small team. To make a comparison, I don't imagine them having more than 1/6th of the budget SSM had for GoWIII.

I don't doubt they lose budget wise compared to GoW3, it's GoW3. The most over hyped overrated game ever now probably. (Not sure what SSM stands for though)

Doesn't mean they had a small budget, just smaller than the big names, which isn't a big surprise.

I don't know why you guys are comparing budget to the big names, as it would be obvious that they wouldn't have as much. Those games had a series they've devlop for a while and continue to do so, but MS is a small outsourced company only starting on an iffy start for CV.

[Thunderbrand]

UPDATED:

Spent some more time with it; beat the Enchanted Forest and Spider Cave and am into the Agharta place now... I'm sorry, at this point in Chapter 2, there is only a smidgen of Castlevania "feel." It's actually starting to bug me how bland the vision is. Sure, you've got all these "epic" settings like forests and caves and ruins...but they don't have much personality. It feels like I'm just on an archeological adventure like Indiana Jones or Laura Croft.

Don't worry, things start feeling very CV-like in chapter 4 and becomes full blown once you get to Chapter 5. In fact, in the very last scene of Chapter 5, Level 1 (Veros Woods) when the music changes and you see THAT backgound...if that dosen't give you a major CV vibe, then your head just isn't in it.

[e105beta]

How'd you know they dind't have a big budget? I think they did, or at least a fairly good one. Definitely by far bigger than the recent cvs... or maybe all the other CVs.

Risk or not, they stilll had Kojima to look over it, so I doubt they'd just say here's 5 dollars, go buy yourself a steak.

Cox said so, lol?

If anybody knows the budget he does.

Sure it's bigger than IGA's, but then again, you probably just need more money to develop for a 360/PS3 over the DS.
But when you compare GoW3 (which this game IS being compared to) to LoS, you can't help but marvel how 50 guys came up with a completely new graphics engine that arguably looks better than an engine being used by 500 guys a 3rd time through.

[thernz]

I don't think it's technically as proficient they just made artistically better assets. i dont actually like the way the lighting is rendered among other things in the engine but that's nagging.

[Ahasverus]

I don't think it's technically as proficient they just made artistically better assets. i dont actually like the way the lighting is rendered among other things in the engine but that's nagging.

WHAT?!
Lighting is one of the best this gen, only behind U2 and GOW3, Clock tower is a prime example, it's just a genious lighting engine. The physics are broken though. (They use Brink so that's understandable, next time use Euphoria... please).

But when you compare GoW3 (which this game IS being compared to) to LoS, you can't help but marvel how 50 guys came up with a completely new graphics engine that arguably looks better than an engine being used by 500 guys a 3rd time through.

^ THIS ^

[Wallachia]

I just got to the sewers after defeating Brauner. Now I see why alot of you say it gets more CVish around there, and you start loving the game more and more.

I really liked the 3 Lycan towers and the waterfalls/sound there. Malphas' tower and staircase were really vibey as well. Sure, there is alot of Lord of the Rings inpspiration in the game, but it is ok with me. Especially when I feel the CV4ish moods come out.

I'm just happy to have a CV that I can't wait to get home and play. It's been years. It also helps that that Halloween feeling is in the air, at least where I live

[RichterB]

My LoS journey continues...

I am at the first Lord of Shadow now, second form. The game is getting more and more enjoyable (it really is an extremely impressive effort in of itself), but I think this sums up my feelings: As of Chapter 3, LoS is what would happen if Rygar: The Legendary Adventure/Battle of Argus and Shadow of the Colossus had a kid, and that kid was a fan of Castlevania, The Legend of Zelda, and Lord of the Rings

The Agharta areas' alleged remix of the SCVIV waterfall theme was just not there for me. I listened to the two side by side, and the similarities are slim at best. It doesn't succeed as a symphonic remix, and it only does average as a new song, IMO. Ironically, as an experiment, I put on some tunes like "Portrait of the Ghost Ship" from Dracula X and the Mortiva songs from CoD, and they actually helped somewhat with the Castlevania feel in the water areas...which weren't very watery in the end. The amount of "riding" in this game surprises me. Its cool in one way, but distracting in another. The use of the whip for rappelling and swinging is to the level I always dreamed, but the lack of camera control and the on-rails nature of the swinging (sometimes the computer does it completely, momentum is automatic, and timing hardly comes into play) makes these parts less dynamic and engaging than they could have been. (Bionic Commando 2009 this is not, and it doesn't often feel as rewarding/skillful as in SCVIV). There's been all this talk of Classicvania references (which aren't as big as they were billed thus far in my estimation), but I'm surprised that there has been less notice of the Castleroid nods. The backtracking alongside new magic items like the gauntlet, the fairies, the monster-summoning dark crystal and [foreseeable] boots are all things from IGA's playbook.

Anyway, the second titan was a lot more interesting than the first (though I'm seeing some possible The Big-O anime references), the Black Knight was awesome, and levels like the crystal-hunting one (reminded me slightly of Simon's Quest) and the Dark Dungeon were more toward the right atmosphere (GnG red devils aside). The combat with the Light and Shadow magic has gotten even more fantastic (though again, maybe it is overkill for Castlevania when all is said and done). I was surprised and saddened that the new girl character didn't have more of a part to play, and Pan is just trouble waiting to happen I think. Gabe should stay away from that guy.

All and all, I'm having fun (though when I stop and think of what I'm playing, the hybrid vibe I noted above comes to mind, especially the Rygar feel. Rarely do I feel like I am definitely playing Castlevania). I did find a few glitches, including a Chapter 2 wall I got stuck floating beside and had to restart at a checkpoint. To be continued....

[Wallachia]

Richter B, wait until you go through Chapter 4 and 5.. and then proceed into 6..

[justin312]

I thought it was outstanding.  It did take a little bit to get rolling, but once it did I was hooked.  There are definitely some things to fix in the sequel-- would love to be able to look around, and more time near or in the castle would be great-- but its an amazing start.  Great game. The walk towards Wygol with the castle in the distance was an awesome moment, gave me the chills.

As far as the budget goes, I don't think this game had as big of a budget as some think.  Like some posters have said, MercurySteam is 50 people.  Just compare the end credits to some "AAA" games you've recently beaten, and you'll find the Lords of Shadow credits to be comparatively short.  I recently beat Dragon Age, and it felt like the end credits were 20 minutes long.  My Xbox controller actually turned off twice while the end credits were rolling (with Lords it stayed on through the credits AND epilogue).  The more people involved, the more expensive a game is.  I'm sure they got more than Iga's typical budget, but... an HD console game costs more to make than a DS game, a LOT more.  The credit for this game's excellent quality should go to the studio and their great effort, not to some phantom James Cameron budget.

[RichterB]

Richter B, wait until you go through Chapter 4 and 5.. and then proceed into 6..

All right, I cleared Chapter IV and have arrived at the beginning of the Library in Chapter V. Things are definitely picking up--the visual themes are getting more in the right ballpark--and yet something is most definitely missing. I thought the vista of the castle was good and all, and the graveyard was neat, but I'm not feeling as much emotional investment in the game compared to even LoI, which is strange to me. The "chills" aren't there. Anyway, I can't believe how fast this game is going. 22 levels in already on Knight mode...man, a lot of these are really short.

Regardless, the effort on the whole package as a video game itself is up there with the best, I think. The latest, detailed Rinaldo reference was very odd as it pointed to events in LoI. Given the context, I'm not sure if these Easter eggs serve much purpose. Again, I'm so deep into this game, and yet, despite its quality and pretty high fun-factor, it hasn't really hit me yet.

UPDATE:
Stuck in the sewers at the moment...Anyway, I don't know what it is--the overuse of scripted platforming that relies more on monkey-sidling than jumping, the lack of catchy or memorable music, the more Van Helsing-ish art direction, the lack of rhythm in the level design, or all of the above--but I just can't cheer for this game. It's highly competent, plays well, and has admirable mechanics...but it doesn't make me feel much of anything. It's the strangest experience. A lot of levels feel like they're going through the motions. There have been more nods to "Castlevania" as of late, but they aren't adding up to a strong CV vibe. I'm just stumped in quantifying this experience, and my inability to figure out why is actually frustrating me a bit.

By the way, where's Abnormal Freak? What does he think of the game?

UPDATE 2
Wow, I over-thought that last sewer puzzle big-time. lol. So, just beat the garden maze, which was one of the more enjoyable levels. Seems like this game may yet kick up another level. Oh, and another LoI reference with "Bernhard" departing. That was weird.

[Richter]

Lords of Shadow is an excellent fantasy action game, it has beatiful music, great design and graphics, and the combat is a good challenge with plenty of variety and skill once you have both magic meters in use. It's also a good length, something most new games don't have is a lot of playtime - there are a lot of different areas to see and plenty of different creatures to battle. It's also got a good atmosphere which I enjoyed. Get past the first "Lord" and things start to get better.

As a Castlevania game ... well the music isn't very memorable. It's nice, it's a good quality composition and fits the game with plenty of rousing orchestral pieces. But if you wanted Bloody Tears and Simon's theme again, you might be dissapointed. An nice version of CV 4 Waterfalls tune is in there though, and Vampire Killer is present (in some respect). In other areas, well there's plenty of good creatures as I said, a library, a castle, a science lab, a clock tower, hell. It's got throwing daggers and holy water. There's also a mention of the name SPOILER Cronquist which links to the plot as expected and Gandolfini still created the whip... but it's not a real link to LOI. Overall I think it's definately more Castlevania 1-4 rather than anything like SOTN etc.

Problems though - Gabriel is a stoic character with little personality. Whatever Hideo Kojima added, I cant see much of it. The voice acting is okay, but the narration gets annoying fast. Why not actually show Gabriel being angry and tired and talking some more instead of just intro text after intro text being read out by Patrick Stewart, who doesnt sound that interested. Also the plot isn't very good - typical chasing your lost love story with a very silly ending. The final parts like the after credits scene are my biggest gripe with the game. Also it is quite derivite - the "Collossus" type bosses were the most irritating, and it does borrow from God Of War with the ranged attacks, and there are lots of QTE being used. It never feels exactly like the games its taking ideas from, but I would have appreciated some other classic components in there.

Overall - I give it a B, recommended  

Side note - some people were annoyed about disk swapping for the 360 but I never had to go back and got through all in one play, so in the end its not a real problem.

[Ahasverus]

I don't know why castlevania is the only series fans want the music to be EXACTLY THE SAME every game.+

[Richter]

They're themes, that's why. People want to hear them, it would be like Zelda of Metal Gear or James Bond. Some of the old school tunes wouldn't fit here certainly, but a few more wouldn't have hurt.

[Alutwon]

I don't know why castlevania is the only series fans want the music to be EXACTLY THE SAME every game.+

It's tradition and besides some songs are great and should be reused in the right areas. For example LoS would have benefited from an orchestral remix of ghost ship from CV3 in the titan grave yard