Topic: Lords of Shadow Sequel Ideas (spoilers...a lot of them)

[Danial]

I also wonder why Zobek killed Baba Yaga? He said something about Baba mentioning the "King of Angels" or something, which he didn't like. I may need to go back and watch that cutscene again...

Or did Zobek just kill her because Baba was distracting Gabriel with the scarecrow quest and the musical box? Though Gabe really had no choice. If Zobek wanted him to get to the Land of the Dead quicker, he should've told Gabe how to get there. Though maybe that would've been suspicious... However, I don't quite understand why Zobek didn't attempt to take the two pieces of the mask from Gabe immediately after he killed Carmilla. He already had the final piece...

We don't really know why Zobek killed Baba Yaga, but it probably has something to do with her being a powerful witch.  He didn't want anyone interfering with his plans, and she probably had the power to cause him some problems.  That's also probably why he sent Gabriel down a path that would lead him to killing Malphas.

The Lords of Shadow didn't own the pieces of the Mask, their heavenly counterparts did.  The Lords only guarded the "alters" where Gabriel spoke the words and the Mask pieces fell from heaven.  Zobek's heavenly counterpart wouldn't have given his piece of the Mask up to him.  That's why Zobek had to trick Gabriel into thinking he had defeated the Lord of the Dead, then he let him freely take the Mask.

[LoneChild]

Please guys, stop talking about the next game taking place in NY, dont even mention it. It would be simply grotesque 

[shelverton.]

The Lords of Shadow didn't own the pieces of the Mask, their heavenly counterparts did.  The Lords only guarded the "alters" where Gabriel spoke the words and the Mask pieces fell from heaven.  Zobek's heavenly counterpart wouldn't have given his piece of the Mask up to him.  That's why Zobek had to trick Gabriel into thinking he had defeated the Lord of the Dead, then he let him freely take the Mask.

Oh, of course, I forgot about the heavenly "twins". Thanks for clearing that up!
Though I'm not really getting how Zobek could use the Dracolich dude for this purpose. When Gabriel killed Dracolich and uttered the words, why did the final piece of the mask fall down from the sky? Zobeks heavenly counterpart was still alive and kickin at that point, but gave up the piece of the mask anyway? Or was it the fact that gabriel thought he had killed the Lord that made all the difference? That is... unheard of.

I also wonder why the heavenly counterparts wouldn't get their acts together and put a stop to their demonic leftovers on earth. Though that is probably not how things work around there...   

[LoneChild]

Zobeks heavenly counterpart was still alive and kickin at that point, but gave up the piece of the mask anyway? Or was it the fact that gabriel thought he had killed the Lord that made all the difference?

^ This, the music, and that piece of shit (sorry, i just beated the game) that goes after the credits, are the only things keeping me from 100% loving this game.

[Alutwon]

Oh, of course, I forgot about the heavenly "twins". Thanks for clearing that up!
Though I'm not really getting how Zobek could use the Dracolich dude for this purpose. When Gabriel killed Dracolich and uttered the words, why did the final piece of the mask fall down from the sky? Zobeks heavenly counterpart was still alive and kickin at that point, but gave up the piece of the mask anyway? Or was it the fact that gabriel thought he had killed the Lord that made all the difference? That is... unheard of.

I also wonder why the heavenly counterparts wouldn't get their acts together and put a stop to their demonic leftovers on earth. Though that is probably not how things work around there...   

Simple explanation for how Zobek used the dracolich dude: Read the bestiary entry for the necromancer, it says that they are made necromancers by Zobeck. After they die he gives them some of his life force.

[Danial]

Oh, of course, I forgot about the heavenly "twins". Thanks for clearing that up!
Though I'm not really getting how Zobek could use the Dracolich dude for this purpose. When Gabriel killed Dracolich and uttered the words, why did the final piece of the mask fall down from the sky? Zobeks heavenly counterpart was still alive and kickin at that point, but gave up the piece of the mask anyway? Or was it the fact that gabriel thought he had killed the Lord that made all the difference? That is... unheard of.

I also wonder why the heavenly counterparts wouldn't get their acts together and put a stop to their demonic leftovers on earth. Though that is probably not how things work around there...   

Yeah, when Gabriel recited those Latin words, he was basically asking for the Mask.  The first two heavenly counterparts should have died at the same time as the Lords of Shadow, but the Mask pieces didn't fall until it was asked for by a person with pure heart. 

The heavenly counterparts couldn't really do anything to the Lords of Shadow, and the Lords couldn't do anything to them.  That was one of Zobek's complaints, that they were all stuck in a stalemate.  None of them were willing to work together or against their counterparts.

[Valtiel]

I don't think the next game has to necessarily follow Gabriel.

Actually, Mercury Steam could pull a Metal Gear Solid 2 here.

First chapter, you get to play Gabriel in his new state; couple hours of him going back to Castlevania and reclaiming the castle for himself, taking the name Dracula and becoming the serie's villain; foreshadowing and NPC introduction, and probably him subduing Zobek/Death for good.

Cue Chapter 2 - something like 99 years later, a young guy called Belmont... and you know how that ends.


They really got the chance to play the 100 years mechanic good this time around.

Next game could be about explaining how Gabe becomes Dracula, how the Belmont clan comes to be and how the two are tied; would probably still be medieval in tone and style. Probably still medieval in tone. But I'd totally be up for the series actually showing the passing of time, a la Assassin's Creed. A XV century episode would look radically different, and I wouldn't mind an *actual* Victorian episode.

Heck, I'd take the Castlevania structure in a direction where half the game is made of chasing Drac or his minions across Europe, until you get to the actual Castle for the final showdown. That thing is alive. Make it move around. Make it change with the times. And for the 1999, DO pull a DMC3. Castlevania popping right into the middle of central park. The forces of evil taking over - full scale world vampire war, and a single Belmont infiltrating the castle to save the day. The castle would look gothic in 1999 too, and the whip would still be the only way to take out Drac.

[JR]

I'd love to go rooftop-jumping with a modern Belmont, looking for Drac somewhere in New York.  There are a lot of really cool Gothic places in NYC where he looks like he could lurk.  And locales that serve a Castlevania purpose, too.

There are sewers, some areas of Central Park at night, the Chrysler Building...

I'm still hesitant on pushing the series into present time for the next game, but what you said right here made it sound pretty cool. I guess I could still enjoy it if they did it like that. I kind of dismissed the idea too quickly, I guess.

But I'd totally be up for the series actually showing the passing of time, a la Assassin's Creed.

I love this idea. They could keep the epilogue's events fresh in our minds while establishing a new history for Dracula and the Belmonts. This would be excellent.



Also, I'm not so sure why Satan needed to be in the series now, but the thought of a war between Hell, Drac and Zobek (and an army of monsters?), and the Belmont Clan sounds pretty badass. I hope it plays out that way.

[Innovator]

The point is that we may disagree on them being problems at all.

Your core argument is something along the lines of "Castlevania is THIS. LoS did THIS, but before doing THIS it also did THAT and THAT and since THAT isn't what Castlevania has been till now, then it's a problem". But with such a mindset, how does the game even improve? How can we expand and continue the franchise if nothing new can be done?

People were making your exact same arguments when SotN was released. People were bitching about Alucard not using a whip-like weapon. People were bitching about Alucard not being a Belmont. People were bitching about the music. People were bitching about it borrowing from Metroid.

The exact. Same. Arguments.

It's odd how most franchises benefit from seeing their developers trying new things; yet Castlevania does not. Instead of going "wow, this game brought us something new!", fans are often "why the hell this game isn't like every other?". Then people wonder why Castlevania is possibly the least successfull popular saga in videogame history. Sure, for us fans the "core elements" are enough to be happy of almost every release (the last few years of IGA have been more than "meh" to me, but that doesn't change the fact that I liked basically every game with the Castlevania name on it), but for a new fan? For a neutral observer? The only observation they can make is that the series is stale in the games that follow its original form, and very close to terrible in the games that divert from that formula (hello, Judgement).

Sure, let's have 120406070000990 games set in Transilvania where you got to kill Dracula with a Belmont or Alucard and fully take place in a castle. Don't be surprised if Castlevania goes extinct.

There is positively no problem with the first stages of LoS. In past Castlevania games, games that lasted 2 to 5 hours, you spent a couple minutes in the wild to get to the castle. In LoS you spend 3 hours in the wild, but the game is 20 hours long. They didn't take ANYTHING that is Castlevania out of the game. They added something more. They experimented. They tried to expand the mythos. They set the game in a very different age (CV's "core" gothic horror works best in the 1400-1800 period, this is a medieval episode, no wonder it has a somewhat fantasy feel).
If it is a problem that the game tried to be faithful and yet attempt to bring something new to the saga, then we may as well start begging for HD remakes of the old games on PSN and be done with it. I respect your perspective, but it's the same kind of formulaic approach to the saga that has been suffocating it for 15 years. Castlevania has a lot of potential. Its scope and lore and dept and legacy vastly overshadow games like God of War or even Resident Evil and Devil May Cry, and YET Castlevania has a tiny fraction of the popularity of those games. Stop to ask yourself why. Is Castlevania worse or less appealing than those games? Or was it held down for too long by conservative design? Once again, one could see IGA as the guy who kept CV on life support (and as someone who likes the handheld games, the temptation would be strong), but you need to ask yourself if the games could have been more than that if someone dared a bit more.
And the fact that you consider it problematic that LoS has outdoor areas, and feel that that is a betrayal to the saga, while you're perfectly fine about the 2035 games simply tell us that you have different priorities in what makes a Castlevania game. But once again, if 3 hours of woods and ruins disconnect you more from the lore of the saga than an episode set 30 years in the future where Dracula reincarnates in a college student who fights enemies that would be at home in something like One Piece, then you need to accept that I can't credit your judgement of objectiveness. You have your preferences, and I massively disagree with them, and neither of us can claim to be closer to the true essence of the saga.

But until our mentality is to dismiss anything that isn't a reskin of the same game we've been playing for 20 years, we're always gonna get that, and eventually the fanbase will be so small that we will be knowing each other by name. Personally I'm done with being conservative. If tomorrow we get a phenomenal game set in 500 A.D. where a Belmont ancestor travels to the Middle East to investigate the origins of a plague that is decimating Europe and eventually finding out the undead are behind it, I'll be fine with it being Castlevania. I'll be fine if it deals with fighting mummies in a pyramid instead of vampires in a castle, as long as the horror elements are conserved, as long as it ties to the overarching story - maybe by telling us how vampires came to be, or foreshadowing Dracula, or setting up the Belmont legacy, or whatever as long as it does bring something new to the saga - and as long as it plays like a Castlevania game, I'll be fine.

Hey Valtiel,

I don't know you, but you've definitely got a friend here.

I was quite desperate to read such honest things on this US forum.
Thank you for making me trust again in Castlevania fanbase,
I was thinking there were not Castlevania but just IGA fans here.

[Valtiel]

Hey Valtiel,

I don't know you, but you've definitely got a friend here.

I was quite desperate to read such honest things on this US forum.
Thank you for making me trust again in Castlevania fanbase,
I was thinking there were not Castlevania but just IGA fans here.

I found out about this community fairly late, and I find it quite fantastic to be honest. Nothing bad in loving IGA games (I do too), but it seems to me it's for the most part a bunch of people loving the franchise without too much obsession for any sacred cow.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Thanks guys, we try to create an environment where all types of Castlevania fans can coexist.

We've got the big IGAvania fans, we've got the Classicvania fans, we've got the N64vania fans, the PS2vania fans, the Metroidvania fans, and now the LoSvania fans.

It's a big melting pot, which means lots of discussions going on.  We at the CVForum try to maintain this type of forum fanbase, because we believe that there's something positive about every type of CV game, no matter what 'type' of game it is.

[Vampire Killer]

we believe that there's something positive about every type of CV game, no matter what 'type' of game it is.

*gasp* Even Portrait of Ruin?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Yes, even that game (its music is awesome... love that "Gears Go Awry" Tower of Death music).
And although the dualpartner mechanic was in its infancy and needed some fleshing out, I think it paved the way to the Harmony of Despair online game.

See? That was easy.

[Kale]

*gasp* Even Order of Shadows?

What you should of said.

While Portrait was pretty damn bad, they got quite a few things I liked. Their upgrading sub weapons were good except that they require you to grind the hell out of it.

[Zobias]

Castlevania II should be told in two parts:
- The 1st part of the game being the Prologue covers Gabriels rise to power as The Prince of Darkness.
- The 2nd part set 4 centuries later is centered around the Belmonts and their 1st
encounter with Dracula.
- No Fixed Camera
- Improvements upon the platforming used in LOS.
- have creatures you subdue try and throw you off of them.
- Longer Story.