Topic: Castlevania's geography/outside

[X]

It was in a way. The story at the intro said "At an old Austrian castle." Carmilla Karnstein being her full name, she is in fact from Austria. And the castle in CotM is apparently hers. Though granted in the game they call her Camilla but I feel that might be a misinterpretation of her name as everyone knows who the vampire Carmilla is.

[theplottwist]

It was in a way. The story at the intro said "At an old Austrian castle." Carmilla Karnstein being her full name, she is in fact from Austria. And the castle in CotM is apparently hers. Though granted in the game they call her Camilla but I feel that might be a misinterpretation of her name as everyone knows who the vampire Carmilla is.

If you're referring to the lack of an "r" on her name, it was simply a mistranslation/typo. In japanese it is "Carmilla".


See that dash after the first symbol on her name? That is supposed to be transliterated as an "R".

[coinilius]

It was in a way. The story at the intro said "At an old Austrian castle." Carmilla Karnstein being her full name, she is in fact from Austria. And the castle in CotM is apparently hers. Though granted in the game they call her Camilla but I feel that might be a misinterpretation of her name as everyone knows who the vampire Carmilla is.

That's what I was thinking - that it was just the line 'At an old Austrian Castle' and the rest is just implicit based on knowledge of Vampire literature (I just finished up CotM recently - very good game).  Certainly while I was playing the game I always thought that it was Carmilla's castle and she had just brought Dracula's remains there to resurrect him.

[zangetsu468]

That's what I was thinking - that it was just the line 'At an old Austrian Castle' and the rest is just implicit based on knowledge of Vampire literature (I just finished up CotM recently - very good game).  Certainly while I was playing the game I always thought that it was Carmilla's castle and she had just brought Dracula's remains there to resurrect him.

The problem with this is the castle crumbling in the ending because it is indeed supposed to be CV itself. Cotm was never set in the main timeline.

[X]

Bartly's castle also disintegrated at the end of bloodlines even though it wasn't Castlevania. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that aside from Dracula, other powerful vampires have their own magical castles or fortresses that they dwell in. And as long as they live so too does the construct in question. But unlike Castlevania these structures are not fueled by Chaos nor do they come back repeatedly. Just a magical construct meant to serve the needs of the vampire lord or lady in question. But aside from this theory i think it's a game mechanic meant to signal the end of the evil in the game.

[zangetsu468]

Bartly's castle also disintegrated at the end of bloodlines even though it wasn't Castlevania. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that aside from Dracula, other powerful vampires have their own magical castles or fortresses that they dwell in. And as long as they live so too does the construct in question. But unlike Castlevania these structures are not fueled by Chaos nor do they come back repeatedly. Just a magical construct meant to serve the needs of the vampire lord or lady in question. But aside from this theory i think it's a game mechanic meant to signal the end of the evil in the game.

Yeah that's a possibility. Do you actually fight Bartley in Bloodlines?
The thing I find contradictory of this theory is that Nathan fights and defeats Carmilla in COTM. From this theory the castle ought to crumble there and then.
If I had to hypothesise a theory it would be that Dracula's spiritual energy binds to both of these castles (being The Lord of the Vampires) and those castle then crumble once Dracula is defeated. However I do acknowledge this mechanic as being cliché Castlevania.

This brings something to mind. According to Iga's timeline "Quincy Morris keeps Dracula at bay", yet it's never expressed that Dracula's castle crumbled. Therefore I'm assuming keeping him 'at bay' either means 'not fully destroyed' or it could follow my theory that Desmond destroyed the guardian of Dracula's soul (as per the n64 titles) 

[coinilius]

My take on both Carmilla's castle and Castle Proserpino is that when Dracula is revived they 'become' Castlevania/Dracula's Castle and become tied to him, rather than his castle reviving somewhere else, though it's all just speculation.  While Circle of the Moon does feel disconnected from the series proper, it's not actually that disconnected... a prequel covering the 1820 incident could also easily give it stronger ties to the series as a whole (Richter has gone into seclusion, other groups are working to devise ways to fight Dracula, the forces of Evil are also working overtime to resurrect their lord and take advantage of the Belmont's absence, the Graves family and Morris Baldwin are one of the groups developing another weapon against Dracula, in this case a second whip made from Alchemy perhaps...), but that's a different discussion from this one.

In regards to Dracula's Castle not collapsing at the end of Bram Stokers novel... in the original ending of Dracula, it actually did!

As we looked there came a terrible convulsion of the earth so that we seemed to rock to and fro and fell to our knees. At the same moment with a roar which seemed to shake the very heavens the whole castle and the rock and even the hill on which it stood seemed to rise into the air and scatter in fragments while a mighty cloud of black and yellow smoke volume on volume in rolling grandeur was shot upwards with inconceivable rapidity.

Then there was a stillness in nature as the echoes of that thunderous report seemed to come as with the hollow boom of a thunder-clap - the long reverberating roll which seems as though the floors of heaven shook. Then down in a mighty ruin falling whence they rose came the fragments that had been tossed skywards in the cataclysm.

From where we stood it seemed as though the one fierce volcano burst had satisfied the need of nature and that the castle and the structure of the hill had sunk again into the void. We were so appalled with the suddenness and the grandeur that we forgot to think of ourselves.

You can read more about it here: http://dracula.cc/literature/bram_stoker_original_ending/.

[theplottwist]

Bartly's castle also disintegrated at the end of bloodlines even though it wasn't Castlevania. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that aside from Dracula, other powerful vampires have their own magical castles or fortresses that they dwell in. And as long as they live so too does the construct in question. But unlike Castlevania these structures are not fueled by Chaos nor do they come back repeatedly. Just a magical construct meant to serve the needs of the vampire lord or lady in question. But aside from this theory i think it's a game mechanic meant to signal the end of the evil in the game.

This is correct, and we can see how it's possible in Dawn of Sorrow - Celia isn't a vampire, and even she has her own magical castle fuelled by dark power. Hers is fuelled by the flow of darkness escaping from the Abyss.

And, like X, I also think that Dracula's castle is the only "alive" and able to revive, while the others are merely magical structures fuelled by something else.

Yeah that's a possibility. Do you actually fight Bartley in Bloodlines?

Yep you do, right before Dracula. And it's implied she turns into a Medusa to fight you after her slew of tricks failed.

She screams in agony as she dies, even.

[X]

This brings something to mind. According to Iga's timeline "Quincy Morris keeps Dracula at bay", yet it's never expressed that Dracula's castle crumbled. Therefore I'm assuming keeping him 'at bay' either means 'not fully destroyed' or it could follow my theory that Desmond destroyed the guardian of Dracula's soul (as per the n64 titles)

In the original ending of Bram Stoker's Dracula, Dracula's castle does indeed collapse into the earth after Dracula is slain.

    As we looked there came a terrible convulsion of the earth so that we seemed to rock to and fro and fell to our knees. At the same moment with a roar which seemed to shake the very heavens the whole castle and the rock and even the hill on which it stood seemed to rise into the air and scatter in fragments while a mighty cloud of black and yellow smoke volume on volume in rolling grandeur was shot upwards with inconceivable rapidity.

    Then there was a stillness in nature as the echoes of that thunderous report seemed to come as with the hollow boom of a thunder-clap - the long reverberating roll which seems as though the floors of heaven shook. Then down in a mighty ruin falling whence they rose came the fragments that had been tossed skywards in the cataclysm.

    From where we stood it seemed as though the one fierce volcano burst had satisfied the need of nature and that the castle and the structure of the hill had sunk again into the void. We were so appalled with the suddenness and the grandeur that we forgot to think of ourselves.

[zangetsu468]

If you're saying the original ending this is not the official ending though?

[coinilius]

That's not how the book ends currently - that sequence was ultimately cut and does not appear in the final version that was published.  But of course, the book of Dracula and the Castlevania version of the events of the book probably aren't 100% the same as each other anyway.

In any case, it's certainly an interesting coincidence that Bram Stoker originally wrote that the castle collapsed following the death of Dracula, just like the Castle does in the Castlevania series.

[theplottwist]

That's not how the book ends currently - that sequence was ultimately cut and does not appear in the final version that was published.  But of course, the book of Dracula and the Castlevania version of the events of the book probably aren't 100% the same as each other anyway.

In any case, it's certainly an interesting coincidence that Bram Stoker originally wrote that the castle collapsed following the death of Dracula, just like the Castle does in the Castlevania series.

Now that you mention this, do you remember how in the novel it says that "The Castle of Dracula now stood out against the red sky" even after Dracula's defeat?

This reminds me of this:



Sure, Bram Stoker's ending happens during a sunset. But this STILL is a red sky.

[coinilius]

I guess that is more of a red moon sort of image though than the red sunset image of the original ending of Dracula.  Still an interesting visual and comparison though - the image of Dracula's Castle silhouetted against a red sky is a very striking one, I'm surprised it isn't used more in the series.

[zangetsu468]

Is that image from AR or OOS? If not which game are we looking at here?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

BTW, Stage 4 in Super Castlevania IV is the Outer Keep only in the Nintendo Power SNES coverage.

Based on the OST name, the stage layout, and what happens in the stage, it's some sort of "Mansion of Tricks".

"Trick Manor", "Clockwork Mansion", and "Spinning Tale", lead one to believe it's a type of large mansion on the outskirts of town, not all that dissimilar from "The Villa" from CV64, only with many tricks played on the perspective of the intruder, accomplished through clockwork movements.

This is how the rooms rotate, and other rooms spin, and other rooms have crushing grindstones; clever clockwork tricks.

--------------

It seems that the natural and made-made elements in the vicinity of the Castle are swallowed up by the Castle itself.  This is why in CV64 there's a "Villa".  The villa is called the "Castle Annex".  So there was already a villa there, and when the Castle begins to materialize, it just engulfs the area.

Headcanon: Any good people, animals, etc. engulfed and destroyed by the walls of the castle become lost souls, which inhabit the torches and candles of the castle.