Castlevania Dungeon Forums

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Ratty on December 31, 2012, 02:27:53 AM

Title: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on December 31, 2012, 02:27:53 AM
I've recently started getting back into this hobby, remembering how much I love sequential media (abortions like "The Belmont Legacy" aside) and was wondering if there are any other fans in the dungeon? If so, what are your favorites?

Right now I'm wondering if DC's "New 52" is worth checking out, or if I should abandon current age DC altogether. I hate the concept of Batman Inc. so, so much. But then some titles like Justice League Dark and maybe the new Green Arrow sound interesting.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on December 31, 2012, 02:29:21 AM
Whoops I am sleepy lol
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Nail_Bombed on December 31, 2012, 08:57:44 AM
More of a Marvel fanatic here, grew up on Spidey and the X-Men. But when I got into my teens my bro turned me onto stuff from 2000AD, DC Vertigo, and I also got into Spawn as well (though not so much). Sandman and Watchmen blew my mind back in the 90's.
Still a massive comic book dude.... collected all of the Ultimate Marvel series up to the present arcs, which vary but are mostly good - also into stuff like The Walking Dead, Crossed, Hellblazer, Brian K Vaughan's stuff (Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, Runaways, Saga), Fables, DMZ.... lot of different titles.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: X on December 31, 2012, 10:09:31 AM
I got several different Comic compilations from various companies. I've got Marvel's Maximum Carnage compilation and still keeping an eye out for compilation book two of the Death and Return of Superman as I already have 1 and 3. I also have the Start Trek compilation of who killed captain Kirk.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Lashen on December 31, 2012, 12:04:41 PM
I was a pretty adamant Marvel fan when I was younger. If I could narrow my interests down to a specific series though, it would either be Uncanny X-Men or Immortal Iron Fist.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on December 31, 2012, 06:21:23 PM
I got several different Comic compilations from various companies. I've got Marvel's Maximum Carnage compilation and still keeping an eye out for compilation book two of the Death and Return of Superman as I already have 1 and 3. I also have the Start Trek compilation of who killed captain Kirk.

If you like star trek there is a collection of most of the star trek comics ever produced on a single cd http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Complete-Comic-Collection/dp/B001B5KYR2 (http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Complete-Comic-Collection/dp/B001B5KYR2) unfortunately the PDF format that most are presented in can be a bit distracting to read.

More of a Marvel fanatic here, grew up on Spidey and the X-Men. But when I got into my teens my bro turned me onto stuff from 2000AD, DC Vertigo, and I also got into Spawn as well (though not so much). Sandman and Watchmen blew my mind back in the 90's.
Still a massive comic book dude.... collected all of the Ultimate Marvel series up to the present arcs, which vary but are mostly good - also into stuff like The Walking Dead, Crossed, Hellblazer, Brian K Vaughan's stuff (Y: The Last Man, Ex Machina, Runaways, Saga), Fables, DMZ.... lot of different titles.
Yeah as I get older I find I'm more attracted to Marvel, which I never would have expected as a kid. I think social awareness (and Damian Wayne/Batman Inc.) has dulled my ability to enjoy Batman somewhat, and without Batman the DC universe is a lot less interesting.

I got several different Comic compilations from various companies. I've got Marvel's Maximum Carnage compilation and still keeping an eye out for compilation book two of the Death and Return of Superman as I already have 1 and 3. I also have the Start Trek compilation of who killed captain Kirk.

Yeah trade paperbacks are great, I go for those on miniseries when I can most of the time. Been reading a lot of the marvel "Essentials" volumes lately, lots of silver and bronze age comics at a good price, though unfortunately they're reproduced in black and white which just doesn't work for some titles.

I was a pretty adamant Marvel fan when I was younger. If I could narrow my interests down to a specific series though, it would either be Uncanny X-Men or Immortal Iron Fist.

Iron Fist has a pretty loyal cult following but I really don't know anything about the character, I guess his best chance for getting more recognition will be to show up as a result of an eventual Luke Cage/Powerman movie, whenever that happens. I'm a little apprehensive about my favorite marvel hero Doctor Strange showing up in a film soon as confirmed by Stan Lee, though rumor has it Viggo Mortenson might possibly portray him which gives some hope. I think Mortenson could really bring the silently tortured but contemplative ethos needed for the character without dumbing him down.
But as for Hero's For Hire... the bit of Powerman stuff I have read impressed me, though it was obviously written by middle aged white dudes trying to understand young black culture in the 70s, but at least they were trying and made him an actual character instead of just a stereotype, which is more than I can say for some writers... http://www.cracked.com/article_18502_the-5-most-unintentionally-offensive-comic-book-characters.html (http://www.cracked.com/article_18502_the-5-most-unintentionally-offensive-comic-book-characters.html)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Lashen on December 31, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
There has been talk of an Iron Fist movie; I can only imagine he'll end up talking to Bruce Lee's jedi ghost or something.

I dread.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on December 31, 2012, 09:25:12 PM
There has been talk of an Iron Fist movie; I can only imagine he'll end up talking to Bruce Lee's jedi ghost or something.

You mean like this?
No Retreat, No Surrender (1985) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRk5AVF7vXA#)
(Why yes, that is Jean-Claude Van Damme in what appears to be a small, poorly lit high school gym trying to pass for an arena.)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 03, 2013, 12:33:18 AM
I've always thought superheroes were retarded with the exception of Batman whom I don't exactly consider one since he has no superpowers. He's just a brilliant minded vigilante detective...who plays dressup.

I did enjoy some '90s superhero shows though, like Superman, X-Men, and Spider-Man. Still find superheroes ridiculous, and both Marvel and DC have their fair share of really stupid heroes (Green Lantern? Fantastic Four?). It bugs me that superheroes are the dominant form of American comic books to the point where practically nothing else exists or sells well.

But Batman is my shit and I love Frank Miller's rendition (yes, including Strikes Again, but maybe not so much All-Star) so yeah.

My main comic love is TMNT, primarily the Mirage/Image continuity (although Laird officially retconned the Image line, the dickbeater), but the Archie and current IDW lines are really cool, too.

Currently reading my brother's books for Berserk. Really insane so far; tons of originality in the story and art (even if there's a lot of inspiration from and you've-gotta-be-shitting-me homages to western movies). Really loving it to bits, probably gonna pick up the Old Boy manga when I'm through.

Got too many books I was reading but put down and haven't resumed. Preacher, Spawn, Usagi Yojimbo, Kirby's Fourth World, From Hell, Watchmen, Tales from the Crypt, Uncle Scrooge... I stopped reading comics for like a year and really gotta get back to it.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 03, 2013, 01:26:37 AM
I've always thought superheroes were retarded with the exception of Batman whom I don't exactly consider one since he has no superpowers. He's just a brilliant minded vigilante detective...who plays dressup.

I did enjoy some '90s superhero shows though, like Superman, X-Men, and Spider-Man. Still find superheroes ridiculous, and both Marvel and DC have their fair share of really stupid heroes (Green Lantern? Fantastic Four?). It bugs me that superheroes are the dominant form of American comic books to the point where practically nothing else exists or sells well.

If you can get past the stupid gimmick of this blogger, they ask some really good questions about why he's so popular. http://badassdigest.com/2011/12/21/film-crit-hulk-smash-what-the-f-is-it-about-batman/ (http://badassdigest.com/2011/12/21/film-crit-hulk-smash-what-the-f-is-it-about-batman/) It's fascinating and sad. And reconfirms my statement that my ability to enjoy Batman has been ruined by my ability to self evaluate and think critically, though Adam West's version (the one I saw as a toddler) will always hold a special spot in my heart.

Superheroes, whether they're Mr. Fantastic or Batman are escapist literature, you can take'em or leave. But we both know the reason they're so dominant to the comics landscape in America is that they're basically all that was left after the 50s "Seduction of the Innocent" witch hunt which resulted in the comics code authority. Sure westerns, romance and funny animals limped on for a while but they were all neutered by the strict guidelines of censorship. Until the guidelines loosened in the 70s, followed by and the copper age black and white indie boom. Three steps forward which were sent two steps back by the implosion of the speculator bubble in the 90s.

(yes, including Strikes Again
I think I just threw up a little. :P

My main comic love is TMNT, primarily the Mirage/Image continuity (although Laird officially retconned the Image line, the dickbeater), but the Archie and current IDW lines are really cool, too.

I don't think Laird is involved with the turtles comics in any capacity is he now?

Currently reading my brother's books for Berserk. Really insane so far; tons of originality in the story and art (even if there's a lot of inspiration from and you've-gotta-be-shitting-me homages to western movies). Really loving it to bits, probably gonna pick up the Old Boy manga when I'm through.

Berserk is one of the most deep and powerful pieces of literature/art I have ever experienced in any medium. Though it is easy to be fooled in the early stories into thinking it'll be dark action schlock, you really need to read all of the Golden Age arc to get a full appreciation of it. The creator intentionally has tried to create a western style mythos by the way, western fantasy movies being one influence. For example the look of Guts is based on Rutger Hauer.
Flesh+Blood (1985) - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOy1JZBH5c#ws)
Though much bigger influences were the manga/anime series "Devilman" and the "Guin Saga" which is a 130 novel long series which only really ended because the author passed away, I shit you not.


Got too many books I was reading but put down and haven't resumed. Preacher, Spawn, Usagi Yojimbo, Kirby's Fourth World, From Hell, Watchmen, Tales from the Crypt, Uncle Scrooge... I stopped reading comics for like a year and really gotta get back to it.
Lot of good books in that list, gotta love Usagi Yojimbo. Though a lot of the old EC comics (especially the horror ones) are kind of one-note and cheesy from the perspective of the modern reader. And I absolutely hate the recoloring job they did for the hardcover line of reprints. Looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on the Carl Barks Donald Duck reprints from Fantagraphics one of these days though, Fantagraphics always does a terrific job.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 03, 2013, 02:45:28 AM
Holy balls that Hulk dude's post was difficult to read. Constant all-caps breaks my eyes. I trudged along, though.

I disagree that "cool" factor isn't enough to fully like something. SUDA51 has made an entire career on "cool." Sure, there's some interesting themes and storytelling in killer7, but most of his games are just...cool...and weird...but most definitely cool. Kevin Eastman comics are the same way: lots of guts, swearing, and nudity because it's cooooool.

That said, apart from Bman being cool, I love his behavior. Antisocial, yes. Potentially sociopathic, yes. Indulging in negative emotions, certainly. He's a brooding bastard and we love 'im for it; we love seeing him bust up the bad guys but still feel depressed and hopeless. He's the ultimate manchild. It's why in Timm's universe (mirroring Miller's) he goes from being this noble hero in Batman: TAS to a miserable cunt in Batman Beyond. It's as if his fervor isn't really...doing...anything, but destroying himself and making others hate him.

I don't think Laird is involved with the turtles comics in any capacity is he now?

Nope, signed it all away, but during his reign he decided that the Image series sucked and so when he started TMNT Volume 4, he disregarded all that had happened—although there is a semi-official fan comic coming out that will bridge the gap between Vols. 3 and 4, making the events in Vol. 3 canon and explaining how it could possibly go from one to the next.

But Laird does retain rights to publish a handful of TMNT stories a year of his own continuity, but he has yet to do anything with that privilege, even though he's sitting on two completed/unpublished issues.

The creator intentionally has tried to create a western style mythos by the way, western fantasy movies being one influence. For example the look of Guts is based on Rutger Hauer.

Which is partly why I'm really digging it. Not surprised to hear Guts was modeled after Hauer; I was getting a serious Flesh+Blood vibe from the comic (an incubus being born from the blood and spooge of those who died violently with intense hatred in their heart or whatever—reminded me of the mandrake scene from that movie) and the phrase "flesh and blood" is even used prominently—in the English translation, anyway.

Love how much the God Hand remind me of the Cenobites but...creepier.

Though a lot of the old EC comics (especially the horror ones) are kind of one-note and cheesy from the perspective of the modern reader. And I absolutely hate the recoloring job they did for the hardcover line of reprints.

I love their horror stories because they're pretty clever and comical. The writing's not as smart as The Twilight Zone, but it's some serious fun and the art is always phenomenal.

The recolorings ain't so bad in my book. Most of the time they seem to stick to the original color schemes as closely as possible:
(click to show/hide)

And when they do veer off the beaten path, it's not as if they do a bad job:
(click to show/hide)

I disliked the idea of the recolor jobs until I bought some of the EC Annual books and compared side-by-side and realized, "This isn't so bad." That and the lineart looks a hell of a lot better on the EC Archives reprints.

Looking forward to getting my grubby mitts on the Carl Barks Donald Duck reprints from Fantagraphics one of these days though, Fantagraphics always does a terrific job.

The Scrooge book I have is a beaut'. Definitely wanting to get more Scrooge and Donald books.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Successor The Cruel on January 03, 2013, 03:07:49 AM
Huge Green Lantern fan, here.

I love the concept of a corps of space police that are overseen by incredibly ancient and powerful aliens. Also, the power ring and power battery are really cool. It's a shame the execution of such brilliant concepts is pretty damn bad sometimes (see: the Green Lantern movie).

I currently read Green Lantern Corps, which features John Stewart (Green Lantern IV) and Guy Gardner (Green Lantern III). The regular Green Lantern title, which features Hal Jordan (Green Lantern II) and Sinestro doesn't interest me. I really don't like the writer of it, Geoff Johns, and I don't like the way he writes Hal Jordan.

My favorite comic book series is Green Lantern: Mosaic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Mosaic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Mosaic)

It is weird and incredibly interesting. It was so strange and different that it got cancelled despite selling really well, because the executives at DC just didn't like it. It definitely isn't your regular super hero fair. It's very deeply psychological and philosophical. I often run into people who feel it is the best Green Lantern story, but DC still hasn't put it in a trade paperback. Thankfully, it's very easy to find for cheap on eBay, which is how I got it : )
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 03, 2013, 03:19:17 AM
http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.com/2010/06/to-her-son-regarding-jon-stewart-black.html (http://ourvaluedcustomers.blogspot.com/2010/06/to-her-son-regarding-jon-stewart-black.html)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Neobelmont on January 03, 2013, 11:50:04 AM
As a kid I liked marvel more than dc now it's sort of the other way around as for comics I do not get as much I am more of a manga guy, but when I do I get graphic novels like DC's Trinity, or superman/batman public enimies, or specials like when ted kord got killed by that one guy. I did collect the knightfall comics but I could never find the one where bane breaks batmans back also as a present many years ago I recieved some indiana jones comics.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 03, 2013, 10:28:21 PM
I'm just getting back into comics after being out of the game for about a decade. I'm currently checking out DC's New 52, more specifically Superboy and Teen Titans. Neither of which has let me down yet. I haven't checked out Superman or Batman though as given how extensively I know those characters I'm looking to branch off into some lesser known titles. With that said I'm also reading Scarlet Spider, and Spider-Man Noir on the Marvel side of things.

I was a huge Spawn fan when I was a child but having missed over ten years of the stuff I just decided to dive into Spawn: Endgame which is the death-nail for Al Simmons, before moving onto Spawn: New Beginnings which introduces a new main character.

Thanks to The Darkness (the PS3 take) I've gotten very interested in Top Cow so I'm currently reading The Darkness, as well as The Artifacts.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Neobelmont on January 03, 2013, 11:47:07 PM
Also back in middle school we had a big comics section I remember reading IIRC something called showcase it's oldschool comics like the first  all into a book I recall reading a lot of the teen titans and showcase green lantern with hal jordan good classic stuff.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: A-Yty on January 04, 2013, 07:24:36 AM
I've been wondering about New 52 too. The concept doesn't interest me in the least. With the silly Superman legal issues, needless redesigns and origins, it mostly tastes like throwing things on the wall to see what sticks. The only thing that interests me with this, is the possibility of doing ballsy stuff, like killing off major characters. But if New 52 is to remain the canon continuity, that's never gonna happen.

I don't mind the idea of Batman Inc. It's actually pretty great; Batman finally utilizes the power and money of Bruce Wayne to fight crime globally. Also, it enabled Dick to continue as Batman even after Wayne returned, which was cool (I understand that he's back to Nightwing in New 52). What bothers me is how Bruce did it, at least in the former canon. He announced to the whole world he's been funding Batman. Now, I can somehow tolerate the citizens of Gotham not realizing there's only one guy rich, traumatized and with enough free time to jump from rooftops, using stuff so expensive and elaborate no average joe could ever get his hands on. But announcing a direct tie to Batman? No. Just no. Not only does it obviously raise too many questions, but it also makes Wayne a target.

I'm definitely going to check out Death Of The Family once it has finished. I hope they're really doing the "Joker knows their identities" instead of just playing the ambiguous route like the have done for years.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 04, 2013, 09:05:20 PM
Also back in middle school we had a big comics section I remember reading IIRC something called showcase it's oldschool comics like the first  all into a book I recall reading a lot of the teen titans and showcase green lantern with hal jordan good classic stuff.

Yeah that would probably be the "Showcase Presents" line you're thinking of. Big 500 - 600 odd pages of silver and bronze age (roughly the 1960s and 1970s) comics. As long as you don't mind them being in black and white, which is often not as big a deal as you'd thinking considering how clean the the old linework was, it's a great way to read tons of old comics for about $10 - $20 a pop. Marvel has a line just like this called "Marvel Essentials". If you want color books though Marvel has the slightly pricier line of paperback "Marvel Masterwork" editions, and DC has the "Chronicles" reprints for some characters.
Some amazon links if you want to peruse them.

Big Black and White Books
Showcase Presents (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=showcase+presents&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Ashowcase+presents) 
Marvel Essentials (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=marvel+essentials&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Amarvel+essentials)

Smaller all color books
Marvel Masterworks Paperbacks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_n_feature_browse-b_mrr_0?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Amarvel+masterworks%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A2656022011&bbn=283155&keywords=marvel+masterworks&ie=UTF8&qid=1357361556&rnid=618072011)
DC Batman (Golden Age)/Superman (Golden Age)/Wonder Woman (Golden Age)/Flash (Silver Age)/Green Lantern (Silver Age) Chronicles (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=dc+chronicles&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Adc+chronicles)

I don't mind the idea of Batman Inc. It's actually pretty great; Batman finally utilizes the power and money of Bruce Wayne to fight crime globally. Also, it enabled Dick to continue as Batman even after Wayne returned, which was cool (I understand that he's back to Nightwing in New 52). What bothers me is how Bruce did it, at least in the former canon. He announced to the whole world he's been funding Batman. Now, I can somehow tolerate the citizens of Gotham not realizing there's only one guy rich, traumatized and with enough free time to jump from rooftops, using stuff so expensive and elaborate no average joe could ever get his hands on. But announcing a direct tie to Batman? No. Just no. Not only does it obviously raise too many questions, but it also makes Wayne a target.

The mindboggling stupid "Bruce Wayne announcing he funds Batman" bit bothered me a lot, but it's also the fact that Batman becomes a brand and not much of an individual when you do this. I mean sure there's been the "Batman family" of individuals inspired by and associated with him for decades, but when you make it this big corporate thing "Batman" is infinitely less unique. It just becomes like the name of the hundreds of other super groups. How is he going to spread fear in the "superstitious, cowardly lot" of criminals when they all know for sure he's just one of dozens of assholes being funded by some company?
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 04, 2013, 09:41:28 PM
The mindboggling stupid "Bruce Wayne announcing he funds Batman" bit bothered me a lot, but it's also the fact that Batman becomes a brand and not much of an individual when you do this. I mean sure there's been the "Batman family" of individuals inspired by and associated with him for decades, but when you make it this big corporate thing "Batman" is infinitely less unique. It just becomes like the name of the hundreds of other super groups. How is he going to spread fear in the "superstitious, cowardly lot" of criminals when they all know for sure he's just one of dozens of assholes being funded by some company?

You guys aren't looking at this from a DC universe perspective. You're only looking at this from the standpoint of "tradition" which is irrelevant here. Bruce Wayne going public in terms of "funding Batman" doesn't put him at any more risk than say Lex Luthor who has backed heroes in the past (for diabolical plots later on down the line) or on the Marvel end there is Kingpin whose villainy led him to publicly back people like Hammerhead or Tombstone. In essence the argument I'm making is that Bruce Wayne isn't in that much danger from making a public announcement that he is backing the Bat.

Secondly I'm not sure how long you guys have been reading comic books but criminals haven't been superstitious cowardly lots since the 1970s. If we are to use an in-universe example criminals stopped being afraid of Batman during the events of Knightfall. Criminals are not superstitious, they are not cowardly, they're bold, careful, intelligent, and dangerous. Bruce Wayne knows that the Batman has simply escalated the arms race in Gotham and the criminal underworld as a whole.

Super heroes show up. Super villains show up. Heroes start wearing bulletproof vests. Criminals start packing armor piercing rounds. [We've heard these analogies in Batman Begins.] Batman's Rogue Gallery is filled with criminals who don't actually fear Batman and those rogues tend to gather numerous scum under them who follow them because they aren't afraid of the Bat. Batman as an answer to crime is no longer effective because criminals have evolved. Batman Inc., has to exist because crime on a global level has escalated to such a degree that criminals have no hindrances. They are limitless, they fear nothing, and they can do anything. So Batman as a symbol, as a hero has to change, it has to become bigger, and the gloves need to come off.

Batman Inc. as an organization is more effective than Batman as an individual or a "family" because criminals are now faced with the fact that Batman is just as organized as the crime he's fighting against. That makes Batman dangerous. The only real knock  towards Batman Inc. is the lack of Azrael.

Criminals need to die.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 05, 2013, 02:30:43 AM
Criminals need to die.
Whoa what the hell, are we talking about Batman or the Punisher? I wouldn't even expect rhetoric that absolute from Judge Dredd, and he's largely a caricature of American fascism. If this was really what Batman was all about he could, you know, just fire a missile into Arkham Asylum. Hunt down all of his foes and shoot them, most of his rogues gallery would be dead in a week.

You guys aren't looking at this from a DC universe perspective. You're only looking at this from the standpoint of "tradition" which is irrelevant here.

Whether tradition is relevant or not for characters who've been around for three quarters of a century is opinion, but it's a logical assumption that Wayne would be a target.

Bruce Wayne going public in terms of "funding Batman" doesn't put him at any more risk than say Lex Luthor who has backed heroes in the past (for diabolical plots later on down the line) or on the Marvel end there is Kingpin whose villainy led him to publicly back people like Hammerhead or Tombstone. In essence the argument I'm making is that Bruce Wayne isn't in that much danger from making a public announcement that he is backing the Bat.
Only if the writers choose to ignore the above piece of logic. Which even in a universe full of superheroes would just be lazy writing. What's the POINT of secret identities if someone can just come out and say "Oh yeah I'm a very important funder and close associate of this hero." without any fear of reprisal whatsoever?

Secondly I'm not sure how long you guys have been reading comic books but criminals haven't been superstitious cowardly lots since the 1970s.
I was referencing the famous corny speech Bruce Wayne gave right before being inspired by a bat flying in his window, in which he described criminals thusly. The last Batman arc I really followed closely was HUSH, which as you know was a long ass time ago. Great run though, up there with The Long Halloween as one of my favorite Batman stories. One of the reasons I've been out of comic book collecting for a long time is it's a very expensive hobby if you try to follow all of the current goings on.

Batman as an answer to crime is no longer effective... …Batman as a symbol, as a hero has to change, it has to become bigger, and the gloves need to come off.
Then I have to ask at exactly what point he ceases to resemble anything Batman has been or stood for in the past? Because that’s the point at which I cease to give a crap because he might as well be an entirely different character. I suppose this is one of the reasons I always detested Batman Beyond.

Batman Inc. as an organization is more effective than Batman as an individual or a "family" because criminals are now faced with the fact that Batman is just as organized as the crime he's fighting against. That makes Batman dangerous.
Like there weren’t already enough JLA clones? It makes him and his associates like all the other generic supergroups, except with a more consistent “theme”.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: A-Yty on January 05, 2013, 08:39:40 AM
I'm so sick of the opinion that Batman would be better as a killer. Yes, he suffers from keeping the likes of Joker alive. It's a constant moral challenge to him, mostly because lots of people think it makes him an accomplice.

But think of it this way; is it Batman's responsibility to break the very code that he and others consider the thin line between him as a criminal and as an upholder of law? The DC universe is filled with god-like people and some of them kill. Why don't they take the Joker out? The only argument for it being Batman's job is the possibility of him having been responsible for the Joker's birth. But even still it's shaky.

I have no doubt Batman could kill the whole world if he wanted to. But then he wouldn't be as unique as he is. He would be dowright..boring.in  If you want to see borderline psychos and anti-villains killing bad guys in comic books, there's plenty to choose from. I mean, Punisher isn't a hero. He isn't even an anti-hero or villain. He's a goddamn sociopath.

It's only because people want to see their heroes corrupted they constantly pine after a Superman that fries people from orbit and a Batman who starts snapping necks.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 05, 2013, 10:00:31 AM
My god such RAGE!!!  ;D


Whoa what the hell, are we talking about Batman or the Punisher? I wouldn't even expect rhetoric that absolute from Judge Dredd, and he's largely a caricature of American fascism. If this was really what Batman was all about he could, you know, just fire a missile into Arkham Asylum. Hunt down all of his foes and shoot them, most of his rogues gallery would be dead in a week.

You don't understand what I'm saying. Batman as a hero has failed to achieve what he set out to do. Batman Inc. will likewise fail in turn. The reason for this is that criminals do not fear Batman and thus see no reason to curb their activities. How many times has Batman or a member of the Fam tracked down criminals, only to lock them up, only to have them escape? You cannot provide me with a just reason for that outside of the narrative structure where writers are going to need these characters for later stories. Even if Batman has a "no kill" modus operandi common sense would tell any vigilante that it is better for the people of Gotham to kill say, the Joker or Penguin rather than lock them up, only for them to escape, and threaten the lives of millions. I don't mean to be flippant but I know my comic book characters well so please spare me the sarcastic comment as to whether or not we're talking about Batman or the Punisher. We're clearly talking about Batman who by the way has been far "less" successful than the likes of the Punisher because criminals fear the Punisher. Criminals do not fear Batman and that is the key problem I'm addressing here.



Whether tradition is relevant or not for characters who've been around for three quarters of a century is opinion, but it's a logical assumption that Wayne would be a target.

So you're expecting Batman in 2012 to be the same as Batman in 1939?



Only if the writers choose to ignore the above piece of logic. Which even in a universe full of superheroes would just be lazy writing.

Comics are full of lazy writing. I'm not justifying it but really, addressing what DC did with the death of Superman, as well as A Death in the Family, and what Marvel did with the Clone Saga - this - it is THIS that makes you call out DC on lazy writing.


What's the POINT of secret identities if someone can just come out and say "Oh yeah I'm a very important funder and close associate of this hero." without any fear of reprisal whatsoever?

Tony Stark says hi.


I was referencing the famous corny speech Bruce Wayne gave right before being inspired by a bat flying in his window, in which he described criminals thusly. The last Batman arc I really followed closely was HUSH, which as you know was a long ass time ago. Great run though, up there with The Long Halloween as one of my favorite Batman stories. One of the reasons I've been out of comic book collecting for a long time is it's a very expensive hobby if you try to follow all of the current goings on.

Which is exactly my point. You've been out of the game a long time and that's why you cannot grasp why Batman Inc. exists. As I already alluded to, the events of Knightfall showed the world that Batman is not a symbol, he is a man - a man who could be defeated and broken. Bane showed that Batman was just flesh and blood like anyone else, thus the myth became a mere man who criminals no longer feared. Everyone understands that Batman is just a nut in a costume and so striking fear into the hearts of criminals - which truly was an excellent deterrent - was no longer possible. Batman Inc. is needed to fight crime on a higher level, a global level. You of course don't have to like Bruce Wayne publicly backing it nor do you even have to like the existence of Batman Inc. However, my point to you is you cannot deny that Batman Inc. is needed just because you don't know how DC in-universe has changed.


Then I have to ask at exactly what point he ceases to resemble anything Batman has been or stood for in the past? Because that’s the point at which I cease to give a crap because he might as well be an entirely different character. I suppose this is one of the reasons I always detested Batman Beyond.

Future gloss aside Batman Beyond is realistic - which may have something to do with you not enjoying it. It doesn't matter how many heroes there are, crime will never cease. Heroes cannot end crime they can only keep it from escalating which is what Batman in the original continuum, failed to do. Batman Beyond shows us a realistic future because sorry to break the news but there will never be peace, the world will never be crime free, and the general masses will never stop being more than animals. Batman Beyond embraces that reality and it refuses to take the easy way out by ignoring that fact. The entire point of Batman Beyond can be seen by the astute viewer in it's opening. And I'm not saying you're not astute I'm just pointing out that for the viewer who knows their comic books they would have understood the point of Batman Beyond - hope. Hope is what the people of Gotham need. Hope is what the world needs. That was what Batman Beyond was a symbol of. Not of fear, not of an end to crime, but rather a symbol of hope.

Getting back to Batman Inc. it's a corporation. End of story. Bruce Wayne isn't a child anymore nor is he the same guy he was during the events of Year One. Bruce Wayne knows that Batman has failed which is the reason he created Batman Inc. It doesn't matter if Batman Inc. resembles the ideals that Batman stood for because he failed. It is the ideology of Batman that prevented him from fulfilling his objective.

So I reiterate this: "Criminals need to die."



Like there weren’t already enough JLA clones? It makes him and his associates like all the other generic supergroups, except with a more consistent “theme”.

Groups like the Justice League, the Outlaws, Teen Titans, the Avengers, X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force, the list goes on were created because criminals or intergalactic threats upped the ante. It's like you expect Bruce Wayne as Batman should have the power to solve all the worlds problems. He doesn't. And he's accepted that.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 05, 2013, 11:40:39 AM
My god such RAGE!!!  ;D
We're nerds, being too emotionally and intellectually invested in commercial properties is kind of our thing.

You don't understand what I'm saying. Batman as a hero has failed to achieve what he set out to do. Batman Inc. will likewise fail in turn. The reason for this is that criminals do not fear Batman and thus see no reason to curb their activities. How many times has Batman or a member of the Fam tracked down criminals, only to lock them up, only to have them escape? You cannot provide me with a just reason for that outside of the narrative structure where writers are going to need these characters for later stories.


Yes, I can. Batman and the family are not killers (with the possible exclusion of Jason Todd aside) they are morally superior to the criminals they fight.

Even if Batman has a "no kill" modus operandi common sense would tell any vigilante that it is better for the people of Gotham to kill say, the Joker or Penguin rather than lock them up, only for them to escape, and threaten the lives of millions.


Batman is not a murderer, he has never been a murderer. (Aside from the Tim Burton movies and other elseworlds style stuff naturally.) You're asking to change a fundamental part of what makes him who he is.

We're clearly talking about Batman who by the way has been far "less" successful than the likes of the Punisher because criminals fear the Punisher. Criminals do not fear Batman and that is the key problem I'm addressing here.
The Punisher actually is a monster, Batman is not, he just dresses like one.



So you're expecting Batman in 2012 to be the same as Batman in 1939?
I'm expecting a few things to be consistent if they're going to call him Batman. Such as his moral compass, especially if they are going to continue to label him a hero and not a villain.


Comics are full of lazy writing. I'm not justifying it but really, addressing what DC did with the death of Superman, as well as A Death in the Family, and what Marvel did with the Clone Saga - this - it is THIS that makes you call out DC on lazy writing. Tony Stark says hi.

No I'll call all of those other things lazy writing to, but that doesn't make what I'd gone over earlier any less lazy. Also as I recall wasn't Stark like, the figurehead of the superhuman registration act during the civil Civil War arc?


Which is exactly my point. You've been out of the game a long time and that's why you cannot grasp why Batman Inc. exists. As I already alluded to, the events of Knightfall showed the world that Batman is not a symbol, he is a man - a man who could be defeated and broken. Bane showed that Batman was just flesh and blood like anyone else, thus the myth became a mere man who criminals no longer feared. Everyone understands that Batman is just a nut in a costume and so striking fear into the hearts of criminals - which truly was an excellent deterrent - was no longer possible. Batman Inc. is needed to fight crime on a higher level, a global level. You of course don't have to like Bruce Wayne publicly backing it nor do you even have to like the existence of Batman Inc. However, my point to you is you cannot deny that Batman Inc. is needed just because you don't know how DC in-universe has changed.

Knightfall was like 10 years before HUSH, Batman got along about as fine as he ever did (at least as he ever did post-grim and gritty reinvention) all that time without Batman INC. And that was BEFORE the DC universe got rebooted.

Future gloss aside Batman Beyond is realistic - which may have something to do with you not enjoying it.

Superhero stories are not realistic, they can sound more or less plausible, but by their nature they're unrealistic. Escapist/wish fullfillment fantasy.


It doesn't matter how many heroes there are, crime will never cease. Heroes cannot end crime they can only keep it from escalating which is what Batman in the original continuum, failed to do. Batman Beyond shows us a realistic future because sorry to break the news but there will never be peace, the world will never be crime free, and the general masses will never stop being more than animals.
This sounds like a defeatest rather than a strictly realist outlook, also how do you *know* all of this for a fact?



Batman Beyond embraces that reality and it refuses to take the easy way out by ignoring that fact. The entire point of Batman Beyond can be seen by the astute viewer in it's opening. And I'm not saying you're not astute I'm just pointing out that for the viewer who knows their comic books they would have understood the point of Batman Beyond - hope. Hope is what the people of Gotham need. Hope is what the world needs. That was what Batman Beyond was a symbol of. Not of fear, not of an end to crime, but rather a symbol of hope.
But you just said Batman Beyond is realistic because there is no hope for the future?


It doesn't matter if Batman Inc. resembles the ideals that Batman stood for because he failed. It is the ideology of Batman that prevented him from fulfilling his objective.

So I reiterate this: "Criminals need to die."


And I reiterate that if he gives up the core of his character it's not actually Batman anymore. He becomes a different, much more generic, much less interesting character.

Groups like the Justice League, the Outlaws, Teen Titans, the Avengers, X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force, the list goes on were created because criminals or intergalactic threats upped the ante. It's like you expect Bruce Wayne as Batman should have the power to solve all the worlds problems. He doesn't. And he's accepted that.

He accepted that he can't solve every crime a long time ago, why else would he have joined the JLA, or the Outsiders etc. What Batman is "about" is open for interpretation, but I think it fairly safe to say Batman has never (or never until the current writers) been about "solving" all of the worlds crime through assassinations or even through fear.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 05, 2013, 01:20:43 PM
We're nerds, being too emotionally and intellectually invested in commercial properties is kind of our thing.

Well you have considerably more time to waste and less self-respect at your disposal if you think I'm going to reduce myself to raging over ink and paper as you have. Whereas your arguments only consist of "I'm a mark and I want things to be the same and if DC doesn't keep things the same I'm going rage. RAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEE E!!!!!" On the other hand my view is the only one that matters. This is a fact so I don't need to rage at you to get you to understand why I'm right. Your logic - what little you do exercise is seriously busted and pointing that out is my main objective here.



 
Yes, I can. Batman and the family are not killers (with the possible exclusion of Jason Todd aside) they are morally superior to the criminals they fight.

Now you're addressing factors that aren't of any real importance and which have nothing to do with the topic in question. Congratulations on airing so far off the mark you've ventured into a separate discussion. We know the Bat Fam is morally superior to criminals. Who cares? Y'know, besides you. The answer is no one. Superman is morally superior to all of his foes and yet we still have Darkseid, we still have Doomsday, we still have Lex Luthor doing what they do i.e. making life hell for millions of people as they aim to get what they want. But I guess you think the Bat's moral superiority actually makes a difference. I'll bet you also think Gotham city has a crime rate of zero.
 

Batman is not a murderer, he has never been a murderer. (Aside from the Tim Burton movies and other elseworlds style stuff naturally.) You're asking to change a fundamental part of what makes him who he is.

What you know about Batman could barely fill a coffee mug. You say Batman has never been a murderer? I have news for you, when Batman was first created he killed criminals all the time. He had no issue beating them to death, setting them on fire, and Batman even used guns. Issues arose however because at the same time Batman was on the market, there was another superhero called The Shadow. Maybe, just maybe you might have heard of him. The similarities between Batman and The Shadow were staggering. So much in fact that Bob Kane was afraid he might get sued so he had to change how Batman operated as time went on. So please, spare me the whole Batman is not a murderer nor has ever been one because clearly for all you think you know you don't actually know the first thing about Batman. Here are some actual facts to supplement your weightless opinions.

Batman Killing People
http://io9.com/5759535/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-batman (http://io9.com/5759535/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-batman)
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_movies/news/?a=49514 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_movies/news/?a=49514)


The Punisher actually is a monster, Batman is not, he just dresses like one.

*Cough* mark.



I'm expecting a few things to be consistent if they're going to call him Batman. Such as his moral compass, especially if they are going to continue to label him a hero and not a villain.

His moral compass has always changed to suit whoever is writing him, the times, and convenience. Batman as conceived as Bob Kane is completely different from the Batman later writers have created and I can guarantee you that Frank Miller's Batman is different from this further still. You're grasping at straws at this point so why don't you just pay the house and leave with what little change you still have?



No I'll call all of those other things lazy writing to, but that doesn't make what I'd gone over earlier any less lazy. Also as I recall wasn't Stark like, the figurehead of the superhuman registration act during the civil Civil War arc?

What's your point? If you think I'm going to say Tony Stark handled the Civil War wrong you're sadly mistaken.



Knightfall was like 10 years before HUSH, Batman got along about as fine as he ever did (at least as he ever did post-grim and gritty reinvention) all that time without Batman INC. And that was BEFORE the DC universe got rebooted.

1) Please don't post about a topic unless you actually have the knowledge of the subject you're trying to comment on.

2) Batman did not "get along fine" during or after the events of Knightfall. Something you would have known if you read it.

3) Batman did not "get along fine" before the DC universe was rebooted.

4) The only thing you keep saying is that "I wanted DC this way and they changed so now I hate it. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!"
 


Superhero stories are not realistic, they can sound more or less plausible, but by their nature they're unrealistic. Escapist/wish fullfillment fantasy.

Frank Miller says hi.



This sounds like a defeatest rather than a strictly realist outlook, also how do you *know* all of this for a fact?

It's called critical thinking. I'd like to believe I'm not the only person in the world who has it but I guess you've proven me wrong.



But you just said Batman Beyond is realistic because there is no hope for the future?

Read what's there and not what you think is there. There is no end to crime in the future, there is no end to violence, death, or chaos. However, there is hope. Even in a future as terrible as the one we see in BB there is always hope. That was the main point of the series.



And I reiterate that if he gives up the core of his character it's not actually Batman anymore. He becomes a different, much more generic, much less interesting character.

You don't know who or what Batman is therefore you don't know how Batman Inc. affects those aspects of Batman. You simply don't know enough about Batman to make even a third of the statements you've made. EoD


He accepted that he can't solve every crime a long time ago, why else would he have joined the JLA, or the Outsiders etc. What Batman is "about" is open for interpretation, but I think it fairly safe to say Batman has never (or never until the current writers) been about "solving" all of the worlds crime through assassinations or even through fear.

Bob Kane says you need to read more.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Neobelmont on January 05, 2013, 05:26:04 PM
Yeah that would probably be the "Showcase Presents" line you're thinking of. Big 500 - 600 odd pages of silver and bronze age (roughly the 1960s and 1970s) comics. As long as you don't mind them being in black and white, which is often not as big a deal as you'd thinking considering how clean the the old linework was, it's a great way to read tons of old comics for about $10 - $20 a pop. Marvel has a line just like this called "Marvel Essentials". If you want color books though Marvel has the slightly pricier line of paperback "Marvel Masterwork" editions, and DC has the "Chronicles" reprints for some characters.
Some amazon links if you want to peruse them.

Big Black and White Books
Showcase Presents (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=showcase+presents&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Ashowcase+presents) 
Marvel Essentials (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=marvel+essentials&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Amarvel+essentials)

Smaller all color books
Marvel Masterworks Paperbacks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_n_feature_browse-b_mrr_0?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Amarvel+masterworks%2Cp_n_feature_browse-bin%3A2656022011&bbn=283155&keywords=marvel+masterworks&ie=UTF8&qid=1357361556&rnid=618072011)
DC Batman (Golden Age)/Superman (Golden Age)/Wonder Woman (Golden Age)/Flash (Silver Age)/Green Lantern (Silver Age) Chronicles (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=dc+chronicles&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Adc+chronicles)

The mindboggling stupid "Bruce Wayne announcing he funds Batman" bit bothered me a lot, but it's also the fact that Batman becomes a brand and not much of an individual when you do this. I mean sure there's been the "Batman family" of individuals inspired by and associated with him for decades, but when you make it this big corporate thing "Batman" is infinitely less unique. It just becomes like the name of the hundreds of other super groups. How is he going to spread fear in the "superstitious, cowardly lot" of criminals when they all know for sure he's just one of dozens of assholes being funded by some company?

I read alot of manga so b/w only does not affect me and the clear art work you said would help me understand lines abit more. but I did look these up and these were not the ones I read back  in middle school I searched on-line abit and these were the two I read

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20090316151052%2Fmarvel_dc%2Fimages%2F8%2F81%2FGreen_Lantern_Archives_Vol_1_1.jpg&hash=5784f36d4f4f960866e33a0481a86a52)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.dcentertainment.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fbook-covers%2F1164_400x600.jpg&hash=9887b1fee704961d6d18e637f601c351)

This is where it's at  ;D good classic stuff.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 05, 2013, 05:39:17 PM
Starfire still has her figure after all these years. Glad to see she didn't let herself go like Lois Lane.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Neobelmont on January 05, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
Starfire still has her figure after all these years. Glad to see she didn't let herself go like Lois Lane.

Yep starfire is hot  ;)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 05, 2013, 08:37:15 PM
Batman is not a murderer, he has never been a murderer. (Aside from the Tim Burton movies and other elseworlds style stuff naturally.)

He carried a gun for defense in the very first comics and also breaks a guy's neck by swing-kicking it. Those first few issues he kills quite a few criminals, actually.

Then Robin came along and pussified the whole show.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 05, 2013, 10:02:42 PM
Well you have considerably more time to waste and less self-respect at your disposal if you think I'm going to reduce myself to raging over ink and paper as you have. Whereas your arguments only consist of "I'm a mark and I want things to be the same and if DC doesn't keep things the same I'm going rage. RAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEE E!!!!!" On the other hand my view is the only one that matters. This is a fact so I don't need to rage at you to get you to understand why I'm right. Your logic - what little you do exercise is seriously busted and pointing that out is my main objective here.

Not sure what you mean by "I'm a mark" as in a target? I didn't say if DC doesn't keep things the same I'm going to rage though, just that I'll cease to really care about the character because it's so OC it's only the same one in name only. (The quote you're directly replying to was also an observational joke.) If you think your opinion is the only one that matters that's fine, but that doesn't prove your argument is logically sound. Taking thinly veiled digs at and outright insulting me doesn't prove your argument either.

Now you're addressing factors that aren't of any real importance and which have nothing to do with the topic in question. Congratulations on airing so far off the mark you've ventured into a separate discussion. We know the Bat Fam is morally superior to criminals. Who cares? Y'know, besides you. The answer is no one. Superman is morally superior to all of his foes and yet we still have Darkseid, we still have Doomsday, we still have Lex Luthor doing what they do i.e. making life hell for millions of people as they aim to get what they want. But I guess you think the Bat's moral superiority actually makes a difference. I'll bet you also think Gotham city has a crime rate of zero.

Lol wat, the moral superiority doesn't make a difference? It's an integral part of his character, and it's what makes him a hero instead of a villain. It's pretty clearly important.
 

What you know about Batman could barely fill a coffee mug. You say Batman has never been a murderer? I have news for you, when Batman was first created he killed criminals all the time.

Yes yes, I read all of those stories here http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Chronicles-Vol-Bill-Finger/dp/1401204457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357451083&sr=8-1&keywords=batman+chronicles (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Chronicles-Vol-Bill-Finger/dp/1401204457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357451083&sr=8-1&keywords=batman+chronicles) I've read most of these, still need to get volume 10 tho. Back when Batman was a generic pulp hero/"The Shadow"/The Spider ripoff for about a year before Robin came in, he did kill a few criminals. One he tipped over into a vat of acid during a fight, he also killed some men who had been mutated into monsters in his plane. But if you'll read this book http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complete-History-Daniels/dp/B000A1ETTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357451246&sr=1-1&keywords=batman+the+complete+history (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complete-History-Daniels/dp/B000A1ETTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357451246&sr=1-1&keywords=batman+the+complete+history) you'll see that shortly after the latter case, DC instituted a rule that heroes couldn't kill villains. This policy is one of the things which kept DC in the clear during the 1950s comic book witch hunt, because it was something they could point to to show their comics weren't turning kids into murderers.

He had no issue beating them to death, setting them on fire, and Batman even used guns.


Really? I don't remember this happening, can you cite which issues this happened in? I might be mistaken but I just don't remember that.

Issues arose however because at the same time Batman was on the market, there was another superhero called The Shadow. Maybe, just maybe you might have heard of him. The similarities between Batman and The Shadow were staggering.

Batman was more inspired by Zorro but yes I'm aware of many of the masked pulp heroes who were around at the time. James Gordon was a police commissioner/vigilante hero for example. http://www.adventurehouse.com/contents/en-us/d160.html (http://www.adventurehouse.com/contents/en-us/d160.html) It's awfully strange that they didn't change his name if they were really worried about getting sued. Seems more likely that DC would just say Batman was naturally inspired by Superman, since they used the claim to having the first real "superhero" as a way to sue a better-selling competitor out of business not long after by claiming Captain Marvel was infringing on Superman.

Batman Killing People
http://io9.com/5759535/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-batman (http://io9.com/5759535/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-batman)
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_movies/news/?a=49514 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_movies/news/?a=49514)


*Cough* mark.


Already addressed this both in my previous post (which you somehow called "irrelevant" to his character) and in this one.
Since all of the rest of your post is just you insulting me and claiming that I must know nothing about the character, despite a lack of actual proof** because I disagree with you, I see no reason to respond to the rest of it or to you again. The only thing I don't get is if you really think your opinion is the only one that matters, why you're on a board to hear other's opinions in the first place? Or do you just like to hear yourself talk (metaphorically speaking) and no one followed your blog? That's not an insult I'm just genuinely curious as to the thought process there.

*Like not noting how I said he got along about as fine as he ever had post grim/gritty reboot, which means yeah shitty as compared to the pre-Death in the Family days. But I didn't say it didn't change anything about his character, just that there wasn't anything showing the necessity of Batman Inc. or of changing Batman's character in such fundamental ways.

He carried a gun for defense in the very first comics and also breaks a guy's neck by swing-kicking it. Those first few issues he kills quite a few criminals, actually.

Then Robin came along and pussified the whole show.

Addressed this above. If you want to read the earlier Batman stories though you really should check out that volume of the Batman Chronicles, it's only about $10 and I think you'll really dig it.

I read alot of manga so b/w only does not affect me and the clear art work you said would help me understand lines abit more. but I did look these up and these were not the ones I read back  in middle school I searched on-line abit and these were the two I read

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20090316151052%2Fmarvel_dc%2Fimages%2F8%2F81%2FGreen_Lantern_Archives_Vol_1_1.jpg&hash=5784f36d4f4f960866e33a0481a86a52)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.dcentertainment.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fbook-covers%2F1164_400x600.jpg&hash=9887b1fee704961d6d18e637f601c351)

This is where it's at  ;D good classic stuff.

Oh yeah the archive editions, I remember getting some of them through inter-library loan, great stuff. Too bad they're so expensive though. The New Teen Titans now actually has a couple of giant hardback omnibuses you can buy that would be cheaper than the archive editions. But still might be less expensive to get copies of the original comics, since the Wolfman/Perez era Teen Titans sold very well.

PS- I remember there was one time Batman pushed a giant Buddha statue onto a bunch of chinese thugs/drug smugglers to, that was pretty messed up. Especially how it shows a random Chinese woman telling her daughter they should thank Batman for ridding them of this menace at the end lol. But then this was the era of the racist "Yellow Peril" (earlier issues of Detective Comics actually featured Fu-Manchu himself) so what can you expect.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Neobelmont on January 05, 2013, 11:39:26 PM
He carried a gun for defense in the very first comics and also breaks a guy's neck by swing-kicking it. Those first few issues he kills quite a few criminals, actually.

Then Robin came along and pussified the whole show.

Robin came along because batman was considered too "dark" at time right?

but hey look at the good side at least we got knightwing.

Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 05, 2013, 11:44:42 PM
Not sure what you mean by "I'm a mark" as in a target? I didn't say if DC doesn't keep things the same I'm going to rage though, just that I'll cease to really care about the character because it's so OC it's only the same one in name only. (The quote you're directly replying to was also an observational joke.) If you think your opinion is the only one that matters that's fine, but that doesn't prove your argument is logically sound. Taking thinly veiled digs at and outright insulting me doesn't prove your argument either.

Lol wat, the moral superiority doesn't make a difference? It's an integral part of his character, and it's what makes him a hero instead of a villain. It's pretty clearly important.
 

Yes yes, I read all of those stories here http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Chronicles-Vol-Bill-Finger/dp/1401204457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357451083&sr=8-1&keywords=batman+chronicles (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Chronicles-Vol-Bill-Finger/dp/1401204457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357451083&sr=8-1&keywords=batman+chronicles) I've read most of these, still need to get volume 10 tho. Back when Batman was a generic pulp hero/"The Shadow"/The Spider ripoff for about a year before Robin came in, he did kill a few criminals. One he tipped over into a vat of acid during a fight, he also killed some men who had been mutated into monsters in his plane. But if you'll read this book http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complete-History-Daniels/dp/B000A1ETTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357451246&sr=1-1&keywords=batman+the+complete+history (http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complete-History-Daniels/dp/B000A1ETTC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357451246&sr=1-1&keywords=batman+the+complete+history) you'll see that shortly after the latter case, DC instituted a rule that heroes couldn't kill villains. This policy is one of the things which kept DC in the clear during the 1950s comic book witch hunt, because it was something they could point to to show their comics weren't turning kids into murderers.
 

Really? I don't remember this happening, can you cite which issues this happened in? I might be mistaken but I just don't remember that.

Batman was more inspired by Zorro but yes I'm aware of many of the masked pulp heroes who were around at the time. James Gordon was a police commissioner/vigilante hero for example. http://www.adventurehouse.com/contents/en-us/d160.html (http://www.adventurehouse.com/contents/en-us/d160.html) It's awfully strange that they didn't change his name if they were really worried about getting sued. Seems more likely that DC would just say Batman was naturally inspired by Superman, since they used the claim to having the first real "superhero" as a way to sue a better-selling competitor out of business not long after by claiming Captain Marvel was infringing on Superman.

Already addressed this both in my previous post (which you somehow called "irrelevant" to his character) and in this one.
Since all of the rest of your post is just you insulting me and claiming that I must know nothing about the character, despite a lack of actual proof** because I disagree with you, I see no reason to respond to the rest of it or to you again. The only thing I don't get is if you really think your opinion is the only one that matters, why you're on a board to hear other's opinions in the first place? Or do you just like to hear yourself talk (metaphorically speaking) and no one followed your blog? That's not an insult I'm just genuinely curious as to the thought process there.

*Like not noting how I said he got along about as fine as he ever had post grim/gritty reboot, which means yeah shitty as compared to the pre-Death in the Family days. But I didn't say it didn't change anything about his character, just that there wasn't anything showing the necessity of Batman Inc. or of changing Batman's character in such fundamental ways.

Addressed this above. If you want to read the earlier Batman stories though you really should check out that volume of the Batman Chronicles, it's only about $10 and I think you'll really dig it.

Oh yeah the archive editions, I remember getting some of them through inter-library loan, great stuff. Too bad they're so expensive though. The New Teen Titans now actually has a couple of giant hardback omnibuses you can buy that would be cheaper than the archive editions. But still might be less expensive to get copies of the original comics, since the Wolfman/Perez era Teen Titans sold very well.

PS- I remember there was one time Batman pushed a giant Buddha statue onto a bunch of chinese thugs/drug smugglers to, that was pretty messed up. Especially how it shows a random Chinese woman telling her daughter they should thank Batman for ridding them of this menace at the end lol. But then this was the era of the racist "Yellow Peril" (earlier issues of Detective Comics actually featured Fu-Manchu himself) so what can you expect.


Thank you. The sheer fact that you've both denied actual events in the comics and the fact that you've chosen to make things up and pretend your imagination is canon simply proves my point.

1) You argue Batman never killed anyone. People point out comics in which he did. Yet you claim that things we've actually seen in the comics never happened.

2) You think Batman's morality actually serves Gotham city and the DC universe when it actuality it hasn't done much. But you seem to think that the rampant super villains in DC are all nice guys right. In fact there are no super villains because Batman's morality has eliminated all evil doing. Right.

3) You don't even know who The Shadow is.  :-\ That's just shameful.

4) You think that Batman as a character has never changed from 1939 to 2012.

Amazing. Simply amazing. I have some magic beans. Would you care to buy them?
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 06, 2013, 12:49:42 AM

Thank you. The sheer fact that you've both denied actual events in the comics and the fact that you've chosen to make things up and pretend your imagination is canon simply proves my point.

1) You argue Batman never killed anyone. People point out comics in which he did. Yet you claim that things we've actually seen in the comics never happened.

I freely admit I forgot about those early stories. But their canonicity and value, considering how briefly it was a part of Batman's history, is debatable. Your accusation that I just made stuff up is a straight lie, though not the first or last you've made at/against me in this thread for some reason.

But you seem to think that the rampant super villains in DC are all nice guys right. In fact there are no super villains because Batman's morality has eliminated all evil doing. Right.

Uh I never claimed this?

3) You don't even know who The Shadow is.  :-\ That's just shameful.

I just said I know who the Shadow is, "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!" had a long line of pulp novels and Orson "Citizen Kane" Welles played him on the radio for a time, good character as pulp heroes go. And an oft-imitated one.

4) You think that Batman as a character has never changed from 1939 to 2012.
No I just think some things that are essential to the character. *shrugs* We differ in our opinions on where the elasticity of what defines Batman breaks. I think his moral code and individuality is a strong part of that. But I'm not going to sit here gnashing my teeth or insulting people who disagree with me, Batman joins the many things I don't enjoy the modern incarnations of, but there's already been more stuff written about the Bat-family in the last century than I could hope to read in a single lifetime, so I can always just go wallow in the retro stuff when I feel I need a Batman fix.

Amazing. Simply amazing. I have some magic beans. Would you care to buy them?

ITT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y)

Though actually I didn't come here for a round of one-uppmanship with someone I've never spoken to or to be insulted to my face, but to have a pleasant conversation about sequential media with other people who enjoy it. So can we end this pointless pissing contest and get back to the topic please?

On that note.
Robin came along because batman was considered too "dark" at time right?

but hey look at the good side at least we got knightwing.
Eh that's kind of a misconception. Bob Chipman explains it better than I could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGk9omUeJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGk9omUeJ8) (Wonder why youtube isn't embedding now? Oh well.)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 06, 2013, 05:29:48 AM
The main reason for Robin's creation, to my knowledge, was Bill Finger was getting tired of writing Batman's thought bubble exposition and figured it would be more fun for him to have a character to talk to instead.

The earliest issues really weren't dark, in fact they're quite corny, but once Robin was introduced, Batman didn't look quite so menacing and I don't think he killed anymore.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: A-Yty on January 06, 2013, 07:36:23 AM
He carried a gun for defense in the very first comics and also breaks a guy's neck by swing-kicking it. Those first few issues he kills quite a few criminals, actually.

Then Robin came along and pussified the whole show.

Robin came along because they needed someone to balance the brooding of Batman. To please the younger audiences. He had nothing to do with the "no kill" rule, seeing as how Robin was in the first issue and Batman killed long after that.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Nail_Bombed on January 06, 2013, 09:28:14 AM
So, what with all this talk about Batman, how do people feel about the way Frank Miller handled him after TDKReturns? As in All Star Batman And Robin? Do you feel that FM was just completely extracting the urine at this point? It's one of those comic arcs that reveled in it's own awfulness, IMO. Couldn't be seen as anything more than a piss-take on Batman's character - the start of THE GODDAMN BATMAN.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F000%2F234%2FGoddamnBatman.jpg&hash=02234fe83b3ba7d8adb3ab3e8e275040)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lq8xk7n8zu1qh1cr6o1_500.jpg&hash=c06e064484ea22a14f4caa33be2f92fd)

Of course, I reckon this was exactly what FM wanted to get across, but I haven't read a huge amount of his other stuff apart from his Dark Knight books and Sin City.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: A-Yty on January 06, 2013, 10:04:47 AM
All Star Batman and Robin was a waste of beautiful artwork. The script is just terrible. Best way to enjoy the story would be publish it with empty bubbles and let people write their own version. It has its memetic, over-the-top camp value, but that's about all I can think of. If it were anyone else than Miller who wrote it, I would entertain the thought of it as some sort of ingenious snark at the publisher or something like that. But he's really wacky, so as far as I know, he might be dead serious.

It's easy to get absorbed discussing Batman. I'll try doing my part not to let him overshadow the topic.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 06, 2013, 04:03:47 PM
So, what with all this talk about Batman, how do people feel about the way Frank Miller handled him after TDKReturns? As in All Star Batman And Robin? Do you feel that FM was just completely extracting the urine at this point? It's one of those comic arcs that reveled in it's own awfulness, IMO. Couldn't be seen as anything more than a piss-take on Batman's character - the start of THE GODDAMN BATMAN.

I completely agree with that. I've never been a fan of anything Frank Miller wrote. Sin City, The Spirit, and of course his take on Batman were all equally nauseating to me. Frank Miller is the Quentin Tarantino of comic books meaning that his stories are poorly written, his characters are flat, and his perception of art is to be as flamboyant as possible.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 06, 2013, 09:04:59 PM
Robin came along because they needed someone to balance the brooding of Batman. To please the younger audiences. He had nothing to do with the "no kill" rule, seeing as how Robin was in the first issue and Batman killed long after that.

I'm not sure what "brooding" characteristics of Batman you're talking about. While eventually the death of his parents was established, it didn't serve much beyond a reason for why Batman came to be; he didn't have inner dialogs about his pain and he wasn't a particularly dark character. Robin also didn't appear until 11 months after Batman; he may have been in the first issue of Batman proper (which was a quarter-annual book I believe that originally acted as a collection of new Batman short stories like the ones in Detective Comics), but the Bman had a year of solo adventures prior to his introduction.

Wouldn't you know, Bman gets a guy killed in the DC issue right before Robin is introduced and he doesn't kill anymore in the Kane-drawn issues (far as I know), while also developing a countenance that's more warm and fatherly. So yeah, there is an interesting correlation between the introduction of Robin and a lighter Batman.

Finger got tired of writing exposition where Batman talks to himself and wanted someone for him to talk to. That's the most reasonable explanation for Robin's creation that I've heard, besides DC wanting to attract more young boy readers and bettering their sales. (A lot of adults read these comics as throwaway dime pulp stories.)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 07, 2013, 01:26:22 AM
So, what with all this talk about Batman, how do people feel about the way Frank Miller handled him after TDKReturns? As in All Star Batman And Robin? Do you feel that FM was just completely extracting the urine at this point? It's one of those comic arcs that reveled in it's own awfulness, IMO. Couldn't be seen as anything more than a piss-take on Batman's character - the start of THE GODDAMN BATMAN.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F000%2F234%2FGoddamnBatman.jpg&hash=02234fe83b3ba7d8adb3ab3e8e275040)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lq8xk7n8zu1qh1cr6o1_500.jpg&hash=c06e064484ea22a14f4caa33be2f92fd)

Of course, I reckon this was exactly what FM wanted to get across, but I haven't read a huge amount of his other stuff apart from his Dark Knight books and Sin City.

The Dark Knight Returns and Year One were great, but I think in the intervening time Miller has forgotten whether he's (at least partly) parodying the fascist ultra machismo or completely serious. The book he wrote about Batman fighting Islamic terrorists called "Holy Terror Batman!", which he published with a captain ersatz in place of his Batman when DC didn't want to do it, is proof enough of that. As if the godawful messes of TDK Strikes Again and AS:B&R weren't enough.
DC picked absolutely the wrong guy for their Marvel Ultimate universe ripoff when it comes to Batman, but at least All Star Superman was good by all accounts. I mentioned HUSH earlier and if you like Jim Lee's art in All Star Batman you should definitely check it out. His beautiful artwork in a Batman story that not only doesn't suck, but is actually pretty great.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 07, 2013, 01:46:04 AM
I love Holy Terror (and everything Miller's done for that matter--one can't not give respect to the guy who did Ronin unless one is a complete dolt). It's so unabashedly un-PC and Miller's intent was to mimic WWII propaganda, and I think it works wonderfully. Whether DC's idea or Miller's, it was a good choice not to make it a Batman story; it's just too bad you can't read the first quarter or so of the book without seeing Batman, Catwoman, and Gordon.

All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder is my least favorite of his work and definitely feels more like a parody of his work than genuine, but I kinda see where he was going with it and why Bman's such an asshole. Either way I wanna see it finished.

Jim Lee's certainly no slouch, but his work still fits in a pretty standard model of American comic book art. Miller on the other hand pours his damn soul out with his inks and breaks moulds. I've got a huge amount of respect for his talent even now--The Dark Knight Strikes Again was so avant-garde and beautiful. I'll take that over the norm no matter how glossy.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 07, 2013, 03:16:06 AM
By the way, being that he's a hot topic, y'all read Year 100? Hipster Batman to the max and I couldn't make a lick of sense of it, but I had a lotta fun reading that book. Cool art.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 07, 2013, 05:52:57 AM
I love Holy Terror (and everything Miller's done for that matter--one can't not give respect to the guy who did Ronin unless one is a complete dolt).

Oh I don't know, were Laird and Eastmen respecting it when they made their little parody? ;P
He's done great work in the past, but he's like Alan Moore in that he started out already kind of crazy and only seems to get nuttier as time passes.

I heard about Batman Year 100 and thought the premise sounded really bad, then flipped through it in the store and saw the execution appeared to be equally bad, so never bothered with it after that.
---------------------------------------------------
On subjects unrelated to Batman, this is probably the single worst comic story I read all last year.
http://sanctumsanctorumcomix.blogspot.com/2009/04/clea-loves-sex-3rd-input-its-all-about.html (http://sanctumsanctorumcomix.blogspot.com/2009/04/clea-loves-sex-3rd-input-its-all-about.html)
Doctor Strange and his girlfriend from another deminsion travel back in time* and his girlfriend cheats on him with Benjamin Franklin, yes, that Benjamin Franklin.
Or maybe it's a wizard pretending to be Benjamin Franklin, it's not entirely clear. Somehow that's almost worse.

*This was around 1976 when everyone in America had "bicentennial fever" "200 years woo! U.S.A, U.S.A!"
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 07, 2013, 08:22:20 AM
He's done great work in the past, but he's like Alan Moore in that he started out already kind of crazy and only seems to get nuttier as time passes.

THIS!!!^ I won't deny that maybe 20 years ago Frank Miller was a name to give a crap about but nowadays he has all the appeal of someones grandpa trying to stay relevant in an era that has no need of his old stories. Not only has story-telling evolved beyond Millerism but his attempts to make his characters have depth are worn and ineffective.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on January 07, 2013, 11:38:54 AM
Oh I don't know, were Laird and Eastmen respecting it when they made their little parody? ;P

Yes, actually. :) Eastman is a big Miller nut.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 07, 2013, 03:17:32 PM
Yes, actually. :) Eastman is a big Miller nut.

Cool. Haven't actually read Ronin but it must be pretty good since it's one of the things that first brought him to prominence iirc. Not too surprising to hear Eastman loves Miller's work considering he owns and oversees "Heavy Metal" magazine now doesn't he? Both that and his TMNT co-creation bespeaks a love for the kind of big flamboyant style to characters and storytelling Miller advocates.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: P/\/\\/o on January 11, 2013, 04:20:06 AM


Right now I'm wondering if DC's "New 52" is worth checking out, or if I should abandon current age DC altogether. I hate the concept of Batman Inc. so, so much. But then some titles like Justice League Dark and maybe the new Green Arrow sound interesting.

Comig from a Marvel guy, you defitinely SHOULD check out the new 52! Even I'm impressed!  ;D My fav. DC titles are Action Comics  (seriously, check it out from the beginning!), Batman & Robin, JLA and *GASPP* Aquaman! Demon Knight was fun too, for a change of pace, it's a medieval fantasy title. ;D
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Ratty on January 11, 2013, 10:37:55 AM
Comig from a Marvel guy, you defitinely SHOULD check out the new 52! Even I'm impressed!  ;D My fav. DC titles are Action Comics  (seriously, check it out from the beginning!), Batman & Robin, JLA and *GASPP* Aquaman! Demon Knight was fun too, for a change of pace, it's a medieval fantasy title. ;D

Hm, maybe. I never gave Superman a fair shake as a kid but I think he's a better character as I get older.
I might check out Demon Knight sometime because I love variety, but I've already got a favorite demon fighting badass.
Berserk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PE22PP4lKw#)
^Posting again because it's easier than posting just one page scan XD. And illustrates the point better.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: JR on June 22, 2016, 09:29:21 PM
Anyone read anything decent lately? I've been reading a ton of stuff in the past 6 months...Daredevil (starting just before Miller's run), X-Men (from the Dark Phoenix saga to Inferno so far...I think I love Mr. Sinister), Moon Knight, Secret Wars, Infinity Gauntlet, among others. I subscribed to Marvel Unlimited and love it so far...well, except for them not having the X-Men issue where Magneto rips Wolverine's adamantium out, and not having any of the MAX titles. But I'm really impressed with what they do have, especially on the more popular series.

Just read Alias Vol.1, and it's great. Can't wait to get into the Purple Man storyline, but I'm also excited to see what else came in the series. Also just picked up Sojourn and both volumes of Hush. But I need to crack open TMNT vol.2 first...it's just been sitting on my shelf ever since I got Marvel Unlimited.

But what I'm really excited for is the stuff I just ordered: two volumes of The Shadow, The Authority vol.1, Midnighter vol.1, Superman: Red Son, Sandman, and Alan Moore's Supreme run. I also have my eye on getting Invincible and Marshal Law, eventually.

So has anyone else picked up any good titles lately?
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Abnormal Freak on June 23, 2016, 12:15:57 AM
I had finally picked up Preacher again but haven't read it in about a month now. I need to get back into it before I get too close to forgetting what I've already read, because this go-round I had to start from the beginning again.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: JR on June 24, 2016, 02:28:48 AM
That's another one I want to read. Haven't read a whole lot of Ennis yet...I really liked his Punisher Marvel Knights run, just read the first part of his run on The Shadow, wasn't bad. Kind of curious about Crossed. Always heard good things about Preacher, though.


Something that made me kind of laugh...I found Mr. Lahey in a Daredevil comic from 1979! 2nd panel. Oh God, I'm so easily amused.

(https://s32.postimg.org/d0fgvz6jp/Daredevil_is_the_Liquor.jpg)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: zangetsu468 on June 24, 2016, 05:32:52 AM
Haven't really been much into reading comics over the last 2 years. But I have been busy at work both bagging and collecting for a while now.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: JR on June 26, 2016, 10:47:38 PM
Just read Superman: Red Son the other night, and it was pretty decent. It has Superman landing in Ukraine instead of Smallville, and having him become a Soviet hero. Lex Luthor comes across as kind of Dr. Manhattan-ish in terms of productivity and a general apathy towards humanity (but then I'm not all that familiar with Luthor, so maybe that's how he always is? Not sure). Great read.

Also finished off Vol.2 of the TMNT Ultimate collection. Really liked the Leo solo story and how it tied into the return of Shredder. I also love how Eastman and Laird can write some (for lack of a better word) heartwarming stuff that I didn't expect, like in the Michelangelo solo and the Turtles/April/Splinter/Casey all coming together as family after going through their separate struggles after leaving the city. I just wonder how good the future volumes are, since their commentary indicated that this point in time was the end of their "glory days," with them being tired of working with each other. Still going to get Vol.3 regardless, though...

And I just started Sandman. Pretty interesting stuff. I really have no idea what to expect from this, aside from the universal praise it received. I really like it so far, though I have no idea where the story goes.

Still waiting on Midnighter, The Authority, and Supreme to come in.

I'm probably going to go completely digital from this point on, though...I just realized how much money I'll save by buying from Comixology instead of buying paperback, and I've been buying from the cheapest sellers I can find on Amazon. I still would have to buy paper versions of the stuff not on the service, though. And I wouldn't mind having a physical copy of Kraven's Last Hunt, just because it was so unexpectedly good and dark. I really like the more typical Spider-Man storylines, too, but man, I absolutely loved Kraven's Last Hunt.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: JR on August 15, 2016, 01:45:22 AM
I've come across several titles that Warren Ellis (the guy who was supposed to be writing that Castlevania animated series) has done writing for, and I think I'm becoming a fan of his work. His Moon Knight run was fairly interesting, but I'm really into his runs on Stormwatch and The Authority, two titles about a team of superheroes that do whatever is necessary to save the world. I like how well his characters and plots are written, and they've got some pretty violent moments, but it's not violence for its own sake. Mark Millar picked up writing duties on The Authority after Ellis' run, and although it's definitely enjoyable, it's ham-fisted in comparison.

I lucked out when I found all 5 trades of Ellis' Stormwatch run for $6 each this weekend...I couldn't pass it up.

I really got into Preacher, too...I absolutely love it, I can't put it down. I liked Garth Ennis when he did work on The Punisher, but this is miles beyond that. He made an excellent story with a lot of great characters, and I can't wait to see how it all goes down...I just finished Book 3, but I gotta catch up on other titles before I give Book 4 a go.

I'm really into Marshal Law, as well. Marshal Law is a government-funded law enforcer who goes after rogue superheroes in a dystopian San Francisco. He has an intense hatred for superheroes (many of whom were genetically-altered "super soldiers" who feel no physical pain, and so feel the urge to inflict it on others), but he himself is a (self-loathing) superhero of sorts. The title itself is very critical of the superhero concept, with many parodies of popular characters. It's pretty scathing satire, very violent, pretty funny, and just a blast to read overall. I've heard that Kevin O'Neill, the artist of the series, once was denied approval from the Comics Code Authority from a title he was working on, just because the style of his art itself was considered too disturbing. That's kind of crazy, but not hard to imagine. Great title.

I want to check out the Marshal Law/Hellraiser crossover. This cover is a beauty:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.comiccollectorlive.com%2Fcovers%2F0ea%2F0eaaa1dc-21ee-4ec7-851a-12ffc16d8a05.jpg&hash=4657b0a4dc9ec3c4c5fa8e197e572934)
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: X on August 15, 2016, 11:16:12 AM
Quote
(but then I'm not all that familiar with Luthor, so maybe that's how he always is? Not sure)

My bro read this comic and liked it a lot too. Lex Luthor is different in this story as that's what happens with alternate universal counterparts. The Lex Luthor for other Superman stories is very much a megalomaniac with dreams of aspiration. He's not afraid to do the dirty work (sacrificing anyone and anything) in order to get what he wants. One of the things he wanted was control over Superman. When that didn't pan out he felt it absolutely necessary to destroy him. By any means. The original character didn't start out in comics either. He was a reoccurring villain from the old black and white TV show. And originally Luthor was a short, bald-headed mad scientist. He was not the criminal entrepreneur that we see him as now.
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on August 19, 2016, 05:41:52 PM
This is more TV news than Comic book news, but Marvel has announced a Hulu-produced series for The Runaways! MY FAVORITE SERIES GETS A SHOW! Furthermore, it's from the same team that did Jessica Jones on Netflix, and penned by the duo behind Gossip Girls!

I can only barely contain the level of squee I am feeling right now!
Title: Re: Comic Books
Post by: JR on August 24, 2016, 01:51:33 AM
I've never heard of it, but from what I just looked up, it sounds interesting. If it's as good as Jessica Jones was, I'm sold.

Really liking all of these high-quality shows that have been coming out: Jessica Jones and Daredevil have both been fantastic, and The Flash was fairly decent, too. Never really got into many movies or shows based on comics (would prefer to just read the source material itself), but this past year has definitely changed my mind.