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Offline Lelygax

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Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« on: June 17, 2018, 12:49:22 AM »
0
I will begin by saying that this theory came to my head as a crazy thought, like when you open the fridge and have a idea, so please take it with a grain of salt since it can be a bit overdramatic and completely off the mark. Also it contains heavy spoilers for the game, but I think if you are reading this you already beat it, right?  ;)

The message is hidden on the plot itself. Like, what if IGA knew or felt like he wouldn't have a chance to work in another major Castlevania title? What if he put these feelings in this game? Thats what I will try to show now.

For starters as markers:

Shanoa is IGA
Barlowe is Konami
Albus is  (lets call they person "X")
Dracula/Castlevania is ? (franchise?)


IGA wants to give all of himself to make games he love (Shanoa wants to accomplish her mission) but exhausts itself more and more with low-budget and possibly few time to make them, losing hope that he would be given the chance for his full potential by Konami (Shanoa loses her memories and emotions because of Dominus).

While someone at Konami or outside (person X) is trying to get hold of the Castlevania franchise production (that may not had happened at the time, but could be a inherent fear, maybe is related to metroidvania genre booming?) for some kind of reason, like Albus tried to take Shanoa's place as Dominus' host.

First we are made to believe that its Albus fault that Shanoa lost his emotions and memories, but it was truly Barlowe's fault (aka Konami, that made IGA work with low budget and maybe work in harsh conditions).

Then even after discovering that and trying to stop Barlowe while he spouts the famous lines "How dare you, you even forgetting, who raised you. You... Stupid disciple" (as Konami helped IGA rise) she fails to stop the calamity and Castlevania rises again (like "even without you, there still will be Castlevania games").

As we all know Dracula is defeated yet again by using his own powers against him (maybe IGA was already planning to make a solo project, even if his high loyalty wouldn't let him part ways with Konami at the time, after all he is a very humble man, maybe that can even correlate with Konami's fear of a 1999 game) but with the cost of a friend, that only asked to see she smiling one last time, while she lost everything.

Maybe person "X" are the fans. Konami kept saying that there isn't interest enough in this type of game anymore, while fans kept fighting to maintain the franchise alive and IGA's willpower burning (correlates with Barlowe/Albus antagonism). By leaving Konami, maybe IGA thought it would mean let his old fans behind since maybe in his head that would mean that he wouldn't be able to make CV-like games anymore or that Konami would continue making CV games even if different, that would keep the old fans there far from him.


I thought it was funny that the last game made by him that happens in the timeline, is the one that seems to have a rushed ending as if incomplete (like the franchise without the 199 game) and tells about losing everything.


So what are your thought? I know it may sound absurd, it kinda sounds to me too, but not like something that is impossible. Well, I wanted to return with some kind of lets say... more "normal" thread, but it seems it wasn't this time haha
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2018, 01:19:24 AM »
0
I believe this is what they call "reaching".

Ecclesia being Konami is an idea that I kind of like, more out of irony and in a poetic way.

Shanoa = Iga conjures a lot of strange images into my mind that I could do without :/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2018, 11:09:49 AM »
+1
I like the idea of us being Albus.
We're OK with losing Castlevania if it gives us something that, in spirit, is Castlevania.

I'm already over the moon about Curse of the Moon, and cannot wait for Ritual of the Night.
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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2018, 08:05:45 PM »
+3
I'm not ok with losing Castlevania.

And we never will lose it despite what Konami does because we as fans choose not to by keeping it alive ourselves.

There are great fan projects in the works like Umbra of Sorrow and the Netflix series is great.

If enough time goes by and a great CV game hasn't come out, Mig and I may have to start considering Lecarde Chronicles 3 more seriously as well.

Bloodstained is great but Castlevania must live on. :-)
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 04:45:11 AM »
0
cannot wait for Ritual of the Night.

Unfortunately I believe ROTN may equate to SOTN's bad ending where Richter dies :/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Lelygax

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 05:54:52 AM »
0
At the time I thought about and wrote it, I was a bit exhausted and not sure what to do with it or if I should share. Its cool to see that some people liked it. :)

I'm on the same boat of waiting eagerly for RotN after having played Curse of the Moon, but still wanting to Castlevania games to live, as we know and love it, not as something strange. This new mobile game they are making looks good and while it seems too easy, it could be a good start for more games like the ones we like if they change their focus later to consoles or single player experiences.

And yeah, fan projects are a blast and they've been becoming better and better (like Albus' research haha) but a official game from time to time wouldn't hurt, right?
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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 05:03:30 PM »
0
I'm not ok with losing Castlevania.

And we never will lose it despite what Konami does because we as fans choose not to by keeping it alive ourselves.

There are great fan projects in the works like Umbra of Sorrow and the Netflix series is great.

If enough time goes by and a great CV game hasn't come out, Mig and I may have to start considering Lecarde Chronicles 3 more seriously as well.

Bloodstained is great but Castlevania must live on. :-)

All of that is great but those games are unofficial.
They, like Bloodstained, keep the spirit of CV without Konami endorsing them.
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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 05:33:07 PM »
0
All of that is great but those games are unofficial.
They, like Bloodstained, keep the spirit of CV without Konami endorsing them.

But unlike Bloodstaiend, fan games can literally feature characters and plotlines directly from CV. And can even take it as far as getting actual VA's from CV as we did with Belgrade as Alucard in LC2. They also can bring new life into classic CV songs we've all grown to love.

Bloodstained is cool but it's not CV. And it can't tread in those waters for legal reasons obviously.

I think it's better to be excited for Bloodstained as it's own thing and not Castlevania.

There's more to Castlevania that we as fans love than just the formula. It's the specific characters and the universe itself.

Legally Bloodstained can never directly use those elements. You're not gonna see Simon, Richter or Alucard in there or hear Bloody Tears. And these are characters we all love. They're irreplaceable.

I wouldn't make this point if people weren't pushing this "the hell with Castlevania" it's Bloodstained now thing.

Bloodstained is awesome in it's  own way. But Castlevania is irreplaceable.

I'm sure ROTN will not disappoint. But let's not act as if Castlevania is replaceable.

Fan games have the freedom to at least give these characters life and continue their story. If it's done with taste and quality do we really care if it's published by Konami or not?

When there's projects like Umbra and this new Simon's Quest remake, I'm still excited about CV no matter what Konami does.

Konami doesn't have the power to kill Castlevania.

It only dies if we as a fanbase give up on it.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 06:50:18 PM by Belmontoya »
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 06:43:50 PM »
0
I'm still excited about CV no matter what Konami does.

Yes, unless they hide things behind a pay wall.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 06:44:12 PM »
0
But unlike Bloodstaiend, fan games can literally feature characters and plotlines directly from CV. And can even take it as far as getting actual VA's from CV as we did with Belgrade as Alucard in LC2. They also can bring new life into classic CV songs we've all grown to love.

Bloodstained is cool but it's not CV. And it can't tread in those waters for legal reasons obviously.

I think it's better to be excited for Bloodstained as it's own thing and not Castlevania.

There's more to Castlevania that we as fans love than just the formula. It's the specific characters and the universe itself.

Legally Bloodstained can never directly use those elements. You're not gonna see Simon, Richter or Alucard in there or hear Bloody Tears. And these are characters we all love. They're irreplaceable.

I wouldn't make this point if people weren't pushing this "the hell with Castlevania" it's Bloodstained now thing.

Bloodstained is awesome in it's  own way. But Castlevania is irreplaceable.

I'm sure ROTN will not disappoint. But let's not act as if Castlevania is replaceable.

Fan games have the freedom to at least give these characters life and continue their story. If it's done with taste and quality do we really care if it's published by Konami or not?

When there's projects like Umbra and this new Simon's Quest remake, I'm still excited about CV no matter what Konami does.

I completely agree. I'll be the first to say I've been overly negative about ROTN which is - albeit inspired by - not CV.

It actually saddens me that no matter what we do or where we go we're no longer going to find that fix.

GoS, I've seen gameplay and it doesn't look like a CV game to me (not talking purely about graphics, because for what they are I don't think they look bad).
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Super Waffle

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 09:35:02 AM »
-1
What part of OOE represents fan fiction?

Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 03:41:58 PM »
0
I will begin by saying that this theory came to my head as a crazy thought, like when you open the fridge and have a idea, so please take it with a grain of salt since it can be a bit overdramatic and completely off the mark. Also it contains heavy spoilers for the game, but I think if you are reading this you already beat it, right?  ;)

The message is hidden on the plot itself. Like, what if IGA knew or felt like he wouldn't have a chance to work in another major Castlevania title? What if he put these feelings in this game? Thats what I will try to show now.

For starters as markers:

Shanoa is IGA
Barlowe is Konami
Albus is  (lets call they person "X")
Dracula/Castlevania is ? (franchise?)


IGA wants to give all of himself to make games he love (Shanoa wants to accomplish her mission) but exhausts itself more and more with low-budget and possibly few time to make them, losing hope that he would be given the chance for his full potential by Konami (Shanoa loses her memories and emotions because of Dominus).

While someone at Konami or outside (person X) is trying to get hold of the Castlevania franchise production (that may not had happened at the time, but could be a inherent fear, maybe is related to metroidvania genre booming?) for some kind of reason, like Albus tried to take Shanoa's place as Dominus' host.

First we are made to believe that its Albus fault that Shanoa lost his emotions and memories, but it was truly Barlowe's fault (aka Konami, that made IGA work with low budget and maybe work in harsh conditions).

Then even after discovering that and trying to stop Barlowe while he spouts the famous lines "How dare you, you even forgetting, who raised you. You... Stupid disciple" (as Konami helped IGA rise) she fails to stop the calamity and Castlevania rises again (like "even without you, there still will be Castlevania games").

As we all know Dracula is defeated yet again by using his own powers against him (maybe IGA was already planning to make a solo project, even if his high loyalty wouldn't let him part ways with Konami at the time, after all he is a very humble man, maybe that can even correlate with Konami's fear of a 1999 game) but with the cost of a friend, that only asked to see she smiling one last time, while she lost everything.

Maybe person "X" are the fans. Konami kept saying that there isn't interest enough in this type of game anymore, while fans kept fighting to maintain the franchise alive and IGA's willpower burning (correlates with Barlowe/Albus antagonism). By leaving Konami, maybe IGA thought it would mean let his old fans behind since maybe in his head that would mean that he wouldn't be able to make CV-like games anymore or that Konami would continue making CV games even if different, that would keep the old fans there far from him.


I thought it was funny that the last game made by him that happens in the timeline, is the one that seems to have a rushed ending as if incomplete (like the franchise without the 199 game) and tells about losing everything.


So what are your thought? I know it may sound absurd, it kinda sounds to me too, but not like something that is impossible. Well, I wanted to return with some kind of lets say... more "normal" thread, but it seems it wasn't this time haha

Wow, this is fantastic,  I never saw it like that before, wow just wow. And I must say I'm looking forward to B-S, after playing CoM. And finding out that not only David Hayter is in it BUT NOW Benjamin Diskin its  Just makes this better and Better.
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Offline Long John Silver

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 01:24:05 AM »
0
All of that is great but those games are unofficial.
whether something is official or not doesn't matter in the end. don't get chained to official canon, you're creating a prison for yourself. if it's good and keeps the spirit of the series, it doesn't really matter whether konami put a stamp of approval on it or not. in the past it was the same with iga timeline vs non-iga timeline, one being official, other not that much. these are just labels, external perceptions, the games are all that matters.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 06:13:38 AM by Long John Silver »

Offline XombieMike

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Re: Order of Ecclesia hidden message?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 07:14:35 AM »
0
On topic:
I think it's nice that the struggles in OoE can be applied to the struggles we face in real life. Even if those weren't intentional reasons for why these characters have their motivations, art is in the eye of the beholder and I'm glad you thought about it like this. Intentional or not, it's a sad thought.

Off topic:
One that brings us to the end of IGA's era of CV. IGA's run really started right before him with Rondo. It took the story in a new direction as a kind of reboot, but it kept the original story like more of a split than a reboot. It just happened to work out to where that split was so well liked it became the canon. What are the chances Konami can (or even cares to) pick up where IGA left off? Placing games before DoS in the time line sounds tricky. Placing them afterwards is too futuristic (unless you go the Vampire Hunter D route, then hell yeah).

Castlevania is finished as far as I'm concerned, but it lives on very strong through the creative efforts of it's fans and the love letter to the series that is Bloodstained. I side with Jeorge on this rather than my good friend Belmontoya.

Of course, if Konami happens to make an amazing Castlevania game, that's great. Just instead of you holding your breath and dying, embrace Bloodstained and the great fan made tributes.

All that said, it wouldn't surprise me if the Castlevania Netflix series has moved the greedy hands of Konami for a cash grab. Rebooting the series again with the Warren Ellis plot is a possibility. I personally don't like the plot, but I love the popularity of the show, it's animation and the Deats bros behind that animation and direction. Although I think Ellis loves to ruin everything he touches, perhaps it is as my friend Ben says, "better than nothing."
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