Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Nagumo on February 26, 2015, 06:11:24 AM
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We discussed this topic several times already but since it's been a while I think it would be interesting in hearing other people's opinions again (and we really need something to talk about). So consider the usual: are you dissatisfied with the series right now, yes or no? If you are, what do you think Konami should do to try and fix it? Should there be another 2D game? Should the series try yet another new direction? If so, what would you like? Are you positive or negative about the future of the series? How high do you think is the chance Konami will actually anything do anything again with the series? And in what form? Would you consider playing a Castlevania on phones or tablets because that's what some Japanese devs including Konami are focusing on more? Do you think we will already learn more this year? If not, when do you think we will? Don't spare me the details, I'm interested in hearing anything.
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I don't think it's dead. I think they'll give it another kick in a year or two. They'll probably continue to do a 3D action title, maybe on the 3DS.
What I'd like to see is a return to form (but it will never happen). I think Konami was on the right track with the Rebirth series on Wii-Ware. A small, budget-friendly team could keep developing classic-style CVs and remakes. With the success of indie gaming right now, there is life in oldschool gameplay. If they marketed the games right, and opened them up to Microsoft and Sony platforms, they might make a decent profit.
I'd also love to see some more Metroidvanias, but those probably take more resources to develop than a classic style CV. With Iga gone, I don't see that style being a priority for Konami.
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I would say no for CV being dead. Right now it's somewhat dormant (maybe stagnate too). But I'm not counting the LoS games. Like PFG 9000 said a return to form would be the best place to start from. Gender equality for heroes would be greatly appreciated and they don't even need to to be in-your-face flashy or sexy either. Also keeping the game's story objective simple ie Belmonts Vs Dracula should be strictly managed so it doesn't get out of hand as IGA had let it to. Also Dracula should just be Dracula; as in Vlad III and not some wannabe nobody knows about. I'm okay for another Metroidvania as well if they should decide it's where they want to series to go from here-on-out. But CV should go back to it's roots in order to reestablish itself. I also don't relish the thought of CV having a massive, epic music score movie soundtrack either unless it can be done right. such music would be okay for story cut-scenes but not playing through the game stage by stage. The Indie scene might be the way to go since Konami has gotten too big for it's own good I feel, and this will hurt a lot of old school games we've all come to love. I think the only thing keeping Konami afloat is Kojima's MGS series. But sooner or later that will end and then Konami will be left to wonder where to get their next meal ticket.
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Castlevania died after Lords of Shadow came out.
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CV should go back to it's roots in order to reestablish itself.
Castlevania has been too many things for that to mean anything.
Castlevania died after Lords of Shadow came out.
We must be living in different realities.
In the world I live in, Lords of Shadow brought Castlevania back into the mainstream and sold more copies than any other game before it.
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Yeah, because being mainstream is always such a wonderful thing. They turned Castlevania into a God of War clone, but I'm not getting into that whole discussion again.
Why don't you go play some Destiny?
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It depends on the definition of "Death" for the franchise.
I'm sure the franchise is far from dead in a marketable sense since SoTN-esque clone indie games are actually doing well, much like the Mighty No.9 situation with Megaman, Fans really want more. From a creative standpoint though, Castlevania is surely suffering, with the LoS games suffering from Identity crisis to the grand crash in story with LoS2, as well as the 1999 fiasco with the later IGA games, its quite obvious that the Castlevania story isn't meant for a large scale timeline but excels with an anthology format. Honestly the simple format of "Objective: Kill dracula" but having many twists and turns in between start to finish was done best with the "alternative" games (Cv64, LoD, and CotM) coming in as standalone titles with a story contained completely within itself.
Going back to the marketable side, the current game market is digging the while enhanced remakes deal, in which Majora's Mask 3D opens up more posibilities. Konami could easily remake Both 64 titles with enhanced graphics and take a page from MM3D in adding a free camera controlled by the C-nub, and/or re-release a "HD" remaster of DXC for the Sony market. Hell, at this point porting the Pachislot games to Mobile and The Arcade to Consoles could make a pretty penny. If Capcom can release Resident Evil 3 times and still make a hefty profit, I'm sure Konami can do the same with Castlevania.
I'm sure this is all spectating around Konami's Eye of Sauron fixated on Metal Gear, not having anything against MG, but they have Soooooo many IPs to expand on it's not even funny, and I'm certain even a remake of a lesser known title will get recognition, look at Strider, It's original 2 games have been pretty much forgotten by the time it released and it did pretty well, It would be really cool if Capcom decided to make Beat-em-ups again, a new Final Fight and Captain Commando are long overdue, But getting back on point, even if Castlevania has be ignored for a few years it would still be nice if Konami expanded a bit more, but it would be great if that expansion involved Castlevania since this would be a perfect oppritunity to do alot of out of the box experimental gameplay elements to define this gen's Castlevania.
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They turned Castlevania into a God of War clone
What about Lament of Innocence?
It would be dishonest of me to ignore all the GoW similarities, but I feel like its dishonest of you to conveniently ignore the downfall into "Mainstream hack and slash" that was happening before the LoS series.
We don't have to start an argument over this.
Yeah, because being mainstream is always such a wonderful thing.
It's not as black and white as "Mainstream = Bad" and "Indie = Good"
If you knew me and all the games I play, you would come to the conclusion that I should agree with you, However, I understand why its important for a big name in videogames to be making good amounts of money. I wish videogames weren't a business too. :(
Why don't you go play some Destiny?
Ummm... Because I hate shooters...
I understand its a touchy subject, but there's no need to be a dick, man.
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Castlevania died when it got fans like Rugal lol (jk)
More seriously, the latest game was only released one year ago (almost the right day) and its DLC was released a few months later. As I already said, give Konami a break to find a new studio/director/staff for CV. However, if nothing happens this year (no mention of a new game, no trailer, etc.), it'll be another story.
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I don't think it's dead but it hasn't been doing much either.
I'm pretty sure LoI came out before GoW. If anything I'd say LoI is more DMCish.
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I think that with the old titles available on PSN or 3DS VC the series will never meet one day it "dies". Because It's sad to see earlier titles like PS1 Castlevania Chronicles to become rare materials at the hand of collectors until 2014 in JP region. And the JP PSN region CV Chronicles is THE last thing that the evil force loyal to Dark Lord IGA did with CV series, then the Lord returns to his slumber...
For the new direction of the series...I have exact no idea but I think a stage-based castle with extra collectables like Mega Man X series will be cool. But I don't want to see a lot of nonsense like secret disk in MMZX titles. I love to see Either a 2-D or a 3-D castle, but the game must have the trusted CV quality.
As the difficulty, if a game is as damn hard as CV Adventure Rebirth (especially Hard difficulty) I'll be mad and hate such a game. Maybe the M2 team were right about the overall concept but as the hard mode they were going too much.
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I'm pretty sure LoI came out before GoW. If anything I'd say LoI is more DMCish.
Was that directed at me?
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I'm still pessimistic we'll get an announcement this year. For some reason I have the feeling we'll just get stuff about The Phantom Pain and Silent Hills at E3. Especially the idea that Konami seems to abandon handheld games in general seems to worry me. Just compare their output on DS or GBA to their output on 3DS now, there's a very large difference. However, they still bother to write up Castlevania related content on the European Konami blog. Although the content itself is pretty basic, it's still nice for some acknowledgement.
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Castlevania isn't dead until Konami announces The Lords of Shadow Revamped Collection for the current gen consoles and PC, which should be in about 4 months from now.
Just kidding (kinda).
But seriously, Castlevania isn't really dead, it's resting at best. Konami just doesn't know what to do with the series, hell to be honest, I dont think Konami has ever known what to do with the series post SOTN. And since everyone that has ever had a hand in the series is gone and the fact that Konami has MGSV and Silent Hills as their top priorities currently, I dont see Castlevania coming back into the limelight till at least the end of 2016.
Even then, (realistically, so no From/Platinum) who's Konami gonna give the next Castlevania too since they dont even make games in house anymore? Best case if they're going for a small budget Vania game would be Wayforward (as they clearly have expressed wanting to work on a Castlevania game.) and if they're going for another moderately big budget Vania game, another would be Climax Studio's, who've worked on Konami franchises in the past, including the PC port of Lords of Shadow.
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Castlevania's not dead, it's just waiting for the next resurrection time in the cycle.
Which I guess makes fangame-makers a bunch of Shafts.
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Wait, don't you have to be dead in the first place to be resurrected? :V
Otherwise, yeah, it's just sitting in the coffin waiting for the next virgin sacrifice or whatever.
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It'd be funny if Castlevania went back to Konami Japan and they promptly handed development of a new 2.5D title... to IGA's new studio.
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Well, I don't really consider Dracula or the Castle in states of true death, more like a stasis.
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All because we are not getting yearly releases doesn't mean it's dead. We literally just had a release last February.
Yeah, because being mainstream is always such a wonderful thing. They turned Castlevania into a God of War clone, but I'm not getting into that whole discussion again.
Why don't you go play some Destiny?
"M-MUH NICHE FRANCHISE"
Castlevania used to be mainstream, you know. It used to be a name on people's tongues, right alongside MegaMan and Mario. But after Symphony, that stopped being the case as the games declined in quality and started solely attempting to re-capture Symphony's success on handhelds, with decreasing quality in each one. LoS simply brought it back to the forefront, nothing more. It really didn't "kill" anything. It was a self contained 3 parter meant to re-invigorate the franchise for current audiences, and get them aware that the franchise exists. nothing more. Also Thats funny to hear you call it a GoW clone, I didn't know Lament time traveled to steal it's gameplay from God of War!
Though if it were up to you I suppose we'd still be on Symphony Rehash #3876570, saturday morning anime edition and the franchise truly WOULD be dead.
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All because we are not getting yearly releases doesn't mean it's dead. We literally just had a release last February.
"M-MUH NICHE FRANCHISE"
Castlevania used to be mainstream, you know. It used to be a name on people's tongues, right alongside MegaMan and Mario. But after Symphony, that stopped being the case as the games declined in quality and started solely attempting to re-capture Symphony's success on handhelds, with decreasing quality in each one. LoS simply brought it back to the forefront, nothing more. It really didn't "kill" anything. It was a self contained 3 parter meant to re-invigorate the franchise for current audiences, and get them aware that the franchise exists. nothing more. Also Thats funny to hear you call it a GoW clone, I didn't know Lament time traveled to steal it's gameplay from God of War!
Though if it were up to you I suppose we'd still be on Symphony Rehash #3876570, saturday morning anime edition and the franchise truly WOULD be dead.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
...with decreasing quality in each one.
Im not sure I agree with that. Was it an exaggeration? I couldn't tell.
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Honestly, I would argue that a lot of the "GoW clone" gameplay mechanics originated more from the first Devil May Cry, which precedes a large amount of games that people call GoW clones.
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(Oh boy, that old fight LoS-being-a-GoW-clone again... But I will be strong and should not participate... Or maybe yes???)
Dudes, c´mon. That argument against the originality of LoS is really old. I defend the saga as a game, but not as a part of Castlevania. But I am with the God of War "similar" (instead of clone) gameplay (because LoS takes gameplay from SoTC, Prince of Persia, and others too). I always said that its have similar gameplay but not only for the hack n´slash genre, but if only the lots of QTE were inexistent, then we might be speaking of other things of LoS.
As for the original question (if Castlevania is dead?) well, I agree with all of those that think is only a matter of time when we hear of another game. LoS 2 came last year, and maybe is because we have nearly a game per year, (DS and PS2 games, and LoS trilogy). So, for me the saga will never be dead, just in stand by.
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Castlevania isn't dead. I think Konami is taking a few years to let it cool off.
I think they realize Castlevania is not an annual series anymore. They're letting things cool down after Lords of Shadow 2 bombed. My guess is they're plotting their next move. I would also presume they realized they can't just let the next game fly off in any direction like they let Mercurysteam do.
I think Konami is going to have Castlevania "return to form" in one way or another. They most likely will not go back to the original style, but I can see some sort of exploration style 'return to form'. Most likely will not be 2D gameplay either. My guess is a return to form in aesthetics and atmosphere.
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Castlevania isn't dead. I think Konami is taking a few years to let it cool off.
I think they realize Castlevania is not an annual series anymore.
IMO the industry as a whole just can't really do yearly releases anymore and expect to keep high quality. Back in the NES days, and up until the PS1, it was easy to pump out yearly releases with good production values. But as the industry has become bigger and the technology has gotten better, to make a good, high quality product, the kind that is expected by audiences, it takes 2-3 years at least. And if the last game was poorly received, maybe add a year or two to that while they first plan just what to do next.
They're letting things cool down after Lords of Shadow 2 bombed. My guess is they're plotting their next move. I would also presume they realized they can't just let the next game fly off in any direction like they let Mercurysteam do.
to be fair, A lot of the deal with Mercurysteam is Konami's own fault. Who knows how it might have turned out if it had remained a SCIV remake? Would it still have been a trilogy? Would it have been just the one game? Hard to say, but the fact that it turned into "original universe donut steel", which allowed complete free reign over the creative material is Konami's own fault for deciding early in development to make it a New IP, then deciding to let it be Castlevania again when Kojima stepped in and saw the WIP.(heh)
but I agree overall. It spiraled WAY out of hand with Mercurysteam. You could blame just Alvarez, but the fact remains that it got out of control.
I think Konami is going to have Castlevania "return to form" in one way or another. They most likely will not go back to the original style, but I can see some sort of exploration style 'return to form'. Most likely will not be 2D gameplay either. My guess is a return to form in aesthetics and atmosphere.
One can only hope.
I have a hunch that sooner or later, kojima himself will try to make a Castlevania game. He obviously cares about the franchise if he was willing to defend LoS as a Castlevania game and put his name on it so Konami could market it. And honestly, I'd be quite interested in seeing how a Kojimavania would turn out.
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And honestly, I'd be quite interested in seeing how a Kojimavania would turn out.
Besides lots and lots of mindfuck? :V
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Nah, just resting until Konami gets their stuff together.
We'll probably get another LoS game of some sort though, because the worst possible outcome always seems to be the most probable one.
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lots of stuff
I don't particularly care who dun fucked up, whether it was MercurySteam or Konami, I just want them to fix it and promise never to do it again.
Also, personally, I wouldn't be thrilled with a Kojima CV. He'll go off the rails even further than MercurySteam for sure.
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Nah, just resting until Konami gets their stuff together.
We'll probably get another LoS game of some sort though, because the worst possible outcome always seems to be the most probable one.
I Seriously doubt we'll get another LoS game after LoS2's botched development and release.
MS' contract was for 3 games only, and I dont see Konami renewing it after LoS2. Especially after the reports of how shitty development was.
If anything, Konami themselves might work with the LoS universe in house, but that's honestly not really a bad thing- As long as they can retcon LoS2's ending.
Also, personally, I wouldn't be thrilled with a Kojima CV. He'll go off the rails even further than MercurySteam for sure.
Eh, I dunno. If Silent Hills is anything to go by, He could definitely do something cool with it. I don't think he'd really go way far out. if anything, he'd probably be really into Retro Castlevania and how he can revive that.
IMO Kojima gets too bad a rap because of how out there metal gear plot tends to be.
And between Kojima and MS, I'd prefer Kojima. I mean, at least he's in-house.
not to mention any game he touches gets all the money it needs thrown at it.
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And between Kojima and MS, I'd prefer Kojima. I mean, at least he's in-house.
not to mention any game he touches gets all the money it needs thrown at it.
Fair enough.
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I don't even think about such vile things :D I just want the same old feeling of starting a brand new RPG Castlevania and roam its levels in search for loot!
Ohh when DoS, PoR and OoE came out and I played them it was such a pleasure! I want to experience the same thing but with new Castlevania titles!!!
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Realistically, I don't think a series as well-known as Castlevania will ever be dead. They might put it in limbo for a while, only for a revival later on down the road. I'm just wondering the when and the how of the next game.
To compare, I wouldn't even really call a franchise like Double Dragon dead, and it's definitely in worse shape. Sure, Neon was good, but the series is practically relegated to mobile gaming right now. I'm glad that hasn't happened to CV yet.
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We were in a similar situation before LoS came out/was announced. OoE was released some time ago.
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It's not dead but sleeping. Someone stuck a Crissagrim in it. So maybe when it wakes up it will be old or vintage (classic) and then after some flash backs and some upgrades it will explore (MV) to find a way to be truly dead. If that doesn't suit it too well maybe it will reunite with some family members and children and do some fighting amongst themselves (nah that's been done and right shitty at that). In all seriousness, no the series will never be put permanently on the shelf too much interest. Sad that the two main incarnations (Classic and Metroid) are what the fans want and not seem to be getting. I mean its not like returning to one's roots has proven a success (cough Mortal Kombat 9 and X cough, cough) yeah going backwards never works. Now time reverse!
Such a great series, such an abused child.
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Is the franchise dead? Doubt it. Konami is probably just taking a break from it for a while. Personally, I think going back to a metroidvania style game could be a good idea. Just don't have it spend the entire game in the castle and don't have any leveling up. Just have different equipment of varying strengths and effects.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens. Too bad we don't have a mirror of fate to show us the destiny of the franchise (ha ha ha).
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"The future of the Castlevania series"? "Castlevania in 2015"? I think we've done this already.
There isn't to much to add to what we've already said. Castlevania is in a particularly bad position right now - MercurySteam's reboot was a relative failure, and Konami doesn't seem too keen on keeping the franchise alive.
Will we see another Castlevania game? I don't doubt it. When will that be? Who knows. It could be next month, or it could be three, four years from now. We could also get a surprise announcement tomorrow. It's useless to speculate at this point.
I wouldn't set any "guidelines" for future CV stories. As long as the next plot is tastefully done, I doubt anyone will complain, so there's really no need for any more "Konami better just give us a bare-bones Belmont vs. Dracula next time" rhetoric. I've actually grown a bit tired of that - a well-written, fleshed-out story never hurt anyone.
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I want to say Castlevania is too big of a name to let it fall to the wayside, but then again...Mega Man and Capcom...
I don't think the series is dead though, just waiting to see what to do next. Hopefully in 2d format.
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2015: MGSV: TPP
2016: Silent Hills
2017: MGR2
It's possible that Konami can squeeze in a small Castlevania title in between those years. If not, the next Castlevania game will be a 2018 game.
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MercurySteam's reboot was a relative failure...
I will start off by saying I'm really not looking for an argument. Ive grown so damn tired of LoS arguments...
But can you please explain what you mean by this? A failure in regards to what?
and Konami doesn't seem too keen on keeping the franchise alive.
In the last five years we've had...
Harmony of Despair for the 360.
PSN a year later.
Lords of Shadow
Resurrection DLC
Reverie DLC
Later Released for PC
Mirror of Fate for 3Ds.
Later released for consoles.
Later released for PC
Lords of Shadow 2
Revelations DLC
(This was almost exactly a year ago. Half a year in Japan.)
Spin offs like EotN, Pachislots 2 and 3
Original Castlevania Released for 3DS
Later Released for WiiU
Simons Quest Release for WiiU and 3DS
The Adventure Release for 3DS
Draculas Curse for WiiU and 3DS
Super Castlevania 4 for the WiiU
Rondo of Blood for Wii
Circle of the Moon for WiiU
Harmony of Dissonance for WiiU
Aria of Sorrow for WiiU
Lament of Innocence for PSN
Are you a troll? Or did I misunderstand?
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To be fair, a lot of that is just digital re-releases of older games. I bought the SNES Dracula X for Wii U last week though. I wish the Adventure Rebirth would come to 3ds.
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but then again...Mega Man and Capcom...
Capcom's also retarded.
Even Sega knows to stick to their prize franchise regardless of ups and downs, and they are pretty stupid too.
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I will start off by saying I'm really not looking for an argument. Ive grown so damn tired of LoS arguments...
But can you please explain what you mean by this? A failure in regards to what?
Lords of Shadow 2 came off as a disappointment to many and underperformed critically. It also sold less than Lords of Shadow. In Konami's terms, that qualifies as a "relative failure".
I'm not trying to start a discussion about how good the games were. I actually rather liked the first one.
IMO, re-releasing older games on Virtual Console and PSN doesn't really count as "keeping the series alive". Konami and Capcom keep re-releasing classic Metroid and Mega Man titles on newer platforms, for example. I wouldn't exactly describe either franchise as "alive".
Still, no one knows what Konami is planning for the series. Maybe they're already hard at work on a new CV title. It's all speculation at the moment.
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There isn't to much to add to what we've already said.
This is true and a bit frustrating. I think the amount of discussion has greatly declined as of late. Even during "droughts" with no new new game it wasn't as bad as it it's now.
I wouldn't set any "guidelines" for future CV stories. As long as the next plot is tastefully done, I doubt anyone will complain, so there's really no need for any more "Konami better just give us a bare-bones Belmont vs. Dracula next time" rhetoric. I've actually grown a bit tired of that - a well-written, fleshed-out story never hurt anyone.
That's an interesting topic to talk about, but most people are indeed like "Castlevania doesn't need anymore than Belmont vs. Dracula" or "I don't care about story in Castlevania", which always dampens the discussion a bit. I've been thinking about this, and a good story would probably require expanding the lore somehow. There currently isn't much material to work with. Also, the way the overarching storyline is set up is always a bit constraining. You can bring back Dracula and seal him away again so many times before it gets dull.
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You can bring back Dracula and seal him away again so many times before it gets dull.
This part wouldn't bother me if the games are actually fun. I never had a problem with the story in this series having a simple formula like that.
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This part wouldn't bother me if the games are actually fun. I never had a problem with the story in this series having a simple formula like that.
Neither have I for that matter because that's what Castlevania is to me. If Konami wants to add some more spice to CV by bringing in some other major villains that's fine. But if the major villain is Dracula then we need to have a Belmont in there to clean house, and not some random sword-wielding hero who isn't a Belmont they just cooked up for that one game.
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Actually, I don't think they should get rid of Dracula either. What I'm trying to say is, the way the story is always set up, it's always: "Dracula comes back, gets defeated, rinse and repeat". It's become a bit of a cliche that people light heartily make fun of. Perhaps they should try to step out of that mindset. Perhaps don't kill him off immediately or better, first focus on creating a good standalone story before thinking of turning it into a 1,000 year spanning epic. I think the Belmont vs. Dracula feud by itself is too meager to carry a good story. I'm not saying they should get rid of it, but they shouldn't have the conflict be soley about that alone. That's why I said they should add more lore to the series.
Then again, the last time they added more lore we got Satan, so....
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I think it's time for either Death or Galamoth to become the big bad(s) of Castlevania.
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I like the term preparing for an awakening instead of dead.
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I think if the franchise continues, it should be rebooted again with a fresh storyline. Dracula is of course the main antagonist, but the Belmonts shouldn't be the only heroes. There should be others such as Alucard and others such as mages (like the Belnades family), etc. The Belmonts would still be the supreme vampire hunters, but they shouldn't be the only ones who can fight and beat Dracula.
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Lords of Shadow 2 came off as a disappointment to many and underperformed critically. It also sold less than Lords of Shadow. In Konami's terms, that qualifies as a "relative failure".
You didn't say "Lords of shadow 2 was a relative failure."
You said
"MercurySteam's reboot was a relative failure."
Don't know if it was a mistake on your part or if you're being deceiving on purpose.
IMO, re-releasing older games on Virtual Console and PSN doesn't really count as "keeping the series alive"
What does it mean to 'Keep a series alive' if releasing new titles consistently and re-releasing older ones does't count?
Don't just dismiss re-releases as unimportant. It shows Konami still cares about the franchise. Keeping all titles stuck in their original devices doesn't make money and certainly doesn't make people more interested in the series. Not everyone played Circle of the Moon back in 2001.
"Konami and Capcom keep re-releasing classic Metroid and Mega Man titles on newer platforms, for example. I wouldn't exactly describe either franchise as "alive".
They haven't had a major release in years. We got a new Castlevania last year, Japan a few months ago, like i said previously.
In your first post you said Konami does't feel like keeping the series alive despite all the evidence to the contrary, that includes re-releases, new games every other year and big numbers as far as sales. So i ask you, What could Konami do to keep the series alive that they aren't already doing?
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You know, the thought of a 2D Castlevania on mobile devices is starting to look pretty sweet now. Im not even im not even opposed to the possibility anymore. Just as long as we get a new 2D Castlevania game, im sure I and many other fans will flock to it.
Plus, people did buy Harmony of Despair after all.
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I think if the franchise continues, it should be rebooted again with a fresh storyline. Dracula is of course the main antagonist, but the Belmonts shouldn't be the only heroes. There should be others such as Alucard and others such as mages (like the Belnades family), etc. The Belmonts would still be the supreme vampire hunters, but they shouldn't be the only ones who can fight and beat Dracula.
IGA made CV games like that already and the problems that I feel with them is that it detracts from the importance of the role of the Belmont family. I have no problems with other heroes in a CV game so long as they are with a Belmont. Like it was with CV 3. But if you have a non Belmont hero going against Dracula then it takes away the importance of the Belmonts and soon anybody can kill the Count. It has been mentioned in several story dialogs that others who weren't Belmonts have always been defeated by Dracula, but a Belmont never has. No one else but a Belmont has the mystical blood flowing in them nor do they carry the Vampirekiller. And Since Dracula is the King of Vampires and is the most powerful and influential vampire to ever exist then it makes sense to have a family of mystical heroes to bring him down. That's how the series on a whole is and it just wouldn't be Castlevania otherwise. If people want other heroes then a CV gaiden game can be made starring other heroes who aren't Belmonts going up against other major baddies. But on the whole the main CV story is Belmonts Vs Dracula.
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You know, the thought of a 2D Castlevania on mobile devices is starting to look pretty sweet now. Im not even im not even opposed to the possibility anymore. Just as long as we get a new 2D Castlevania game, im sure I and many other fans will flock to it.
If that is what it takes for a 2D Castlevania renaissance then I would be all for it. I think a game with DS quality assets but with touch controls would be pretty sweet on a tablet.
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Ahhh yes.. Castlevania Mobile!
The wondrous Order of Shadows... and Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of The Night!
In all seriousness, the puzzle game is actually pretty fun.
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To be fair, Order of Shadows came out at a time where moblie games still looked like they belong on a flip phone. Nowadays mobile games are getting straight up console quality titles (amidst all of the Angry Birds, Flappy Bird, and Candy Crush type shovelware games). Im sure if given another shot a mobile Castlevania could do very well.
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You know, the thought of a 2D Castlevania on mobile devices is starting to look pretty sweet now. Im not even im not even opposed to the possibility anymore. Just as long as we get a new 2D Castlevania game, im sure I and many other fans will flock to it.
No thank you.
I would be pretty upset if we got a legit 2D Castlevania on mobile platforms before the 3DS.
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i think the game that will benefit the most from mobile is dawn of Sorrow for obvious reasons. most of us half either iphone or android/samsung galaxy or whatever anyway. if they wre to port dawn for like $4.99 then am pretty sure a lot of us will buy it, not just for nostalgia but to support Konami and dawn is genuinly a fun game to play
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There was a Java port of Dawn made way back. I still have it on my Java phone.
And yeah, I would buy Dawn if they port it to the ios/android... and that would make it my 4th copy. hahahaha.
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Konami could easily do a HD port of LoI/CoD, but I guess it's too late for PS3/X360.
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To be fair, Order of Shadows came out at a time where moblie games still looked like they belong on a flip phone. Nowadays mobile games are getting straight up console quality titles (amidst all of the Angry Birds, Flappy Bird, and Candy Crush type shovelware games). Im sure if given another shot a mobile Castlevania could do very well.
Also, most Castlevania clones nowadays seems to be released on Android/iOS. They always look and play pretty interestingly as well. There was this once called "Castle of Shadows" or something like that which a couple of interesting ideas and a good gothic art style. There's a world of difference between those kind of games and Order of Shadows.
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Why don't these knockoff castlevanias release on Steam? They'd get enough attention for Konami to at least consider making 2d CV again. :/
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2D platformers are not meant to be played with touch screen control. You can`t have precise controls with a virtual D-pad and virtual buttons. Besides by putting fingers on both sides of screens you hide half of the screen. Seriously, 2D platformers on mobile touch devices are one of the worst ideas.
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@Esteban
You're taking this way too seriously. No, I'm not trying to "deceive" anyone, nor did I make a mistake. :P
When I said 'reboot', I meant the Lords of Shadow trilogy as a whole. If a critic's consensus was written, it would look something like this (not necessarily my own opinion): Lords of Shadow was a very solid hack'n'slash RPG driven by a well-conceived plot, showing a lot of potential despite a few issues. Mirror of Fate was a fairly decent 2D spinoff that expanded the LoS lore in interesting ways but wasn't really able to stand out on its own; Lords of Shadow 2 was a disappointing sequel that failed to live up to the original's potential, straying too far from what made the first Lords of Shadow enjoyable.
All in all, it's a pretty mixed bag, especially when you consider that MercurySteam left Castlevania after finishing its vision for the series. I'm just worried that this, along with the sequel's declining sales, might discourage Konami from trying a new reboot, or even from continuing the series at all. But maybe the original spike will have the opposite effect. We really don't know. Hence the term relative failure.
2D platformers are not meant to be played with touch screen control. You can`t have precise controls with a virtual D-pad and virtual buttons. Besides by putting fingers on both sides of screens you hide half of the screen. Seriously, 2D platformers on mobile touch devices are one of the worst ideas.
Pretty much this.
Besides, I'm not particularly fond of mobile gaming. It's small and cumbersome enough to counteract the "on the go" advantage, not to mention that good games are incredibly hard to find among the sea of wannabe mobile hits. And even when you do find a decent one, it usually ends up being so poorly monetized that you'd find yourself giving up after less than an hour of play.
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The iOS port of Monster Hunter Freedom Unite seems to decent albeit complex touch controls that take some time getting used too from what I heard. If they can pull that off I personally am convinced they could pull off a 2D Castlevania game now or sometime in the future. I think they should definitively at least try.
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Konami could easily do a HD port of LoI/CoD, but I guess it's too late for PS3/X360.
LoI is on PSN under the PS2 Classics section.
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I dont think so but IGA will do a comback IGA will have a comeback for sure I really hope so give him time but Castlevania is nearly dead myabe....
But WE need a New CAstlevania game next year or this year for sure.
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IGA left Konami. There is no come back.
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Plus IGA's attempt to create his own studio failed and ended up to work in mobile game industry for a living.
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It is true he is not Konami studio more but even he is working on mobile game for time so he may come back to Castlevania ago.
He has stated he has dream game on hold.
Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/19/tgs-2014-castlevania-symphony-of-the-nights-koji-igarashi-puts-independent-dream-game-on-hold (http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/19/tgs-2014-castlevania-symphony-of-the-nights-koji-igarashi-puts-independent-dream-game-on-hold)
So you need not believe me but I think IGA will come back with a new CV before or since.
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It is true that his game was 'onhold' but there's no guarantee that it will happened for sure, sure he still have a free time after work but he also need a leisure time as well as spending his time with his family. I too was an employee and I don't have a mood to do a side work after having an exhausting hours in the office, I'm sure IGA feels the same way too.
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I understand so IGA what are you doing? Bring back Castlevania;( But if Castlevania came back in 2D I will scream and be happy:)
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Boy what I would give to see what the backlog ideas are for Castlevania at Konami, even if they are just pipe-dreams at this point.
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All because we are not getting yearly releases doesn't mean it's dead. We literally just had a release last February.
"M-MUH NICHE FRANCHISE"
Castlevania used to be mainstream, you know. It used to be a name on people's tongues, right alongside MegaMan and Mario. But after Symphony, that stopped being the case as the games declined in quality and started solely attempting to re-capture Symphony's success on handhelds
It was already niche after Super Castlevania IV. IGA's motivation for making SotN was seeing Castlevania games relegated to the bargain bin in Japan.
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It was already niche after Super Castlevania IV. IGA's motivation for making SotN was seeing Castlevania games relegated to the bargain bin in Japan.
To be fair all games at one time or another have done time in the 'Bargain bin' so it's not unexpected. Older titles don't exactly sell like hotcakes when compared to the newer releases so they 'bin' them and sell 'em cheap.
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IMO, I think that was the time during the near-death or the death of 8-bit and 16-bit era, that's why they ended up in bargain bin so IGA's reason to make SOTN is possibly not valid.
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It's a bit delusional to argue Castlevania somehow wasn't in a pinch before SotN, yet before LoS it was. Seems a little selective to me.
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Was it really in a pinch before SotN? I mean stuff like Bloodlines and Dracula X weren't that far behind.
if anything the N64 games did a number of the franchise, as well as the cancellation of the dreamcast game. But SotN did well, so nobody really noticed. I mean, its not like now, where all this info is readily available and we can all spell doom and gloom.
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There's a great potential for the series now.
I don't think Lords of Shadow 2 performed well. There were rumours that Mecurysteam bosses mishandled it, that it endured a troubled development, and talent like their lead artist Jose Luis Vaello walked due to having little freedom. Konami would want to steer clear, if true, with them likely having to rethink the series' direction / strategy.
In addition, there's was the public outcry at the change in the series pace/aesthetic/gameplay/music/marketing since Dave Cox came on board. It has been at times loud and scathing. I think there has been more dissent than goodwill, overall, here and on forums like NeoGaf.
Lords 1 proved there's still money in it though. Castlevania threads still pop up often around the interwebs. Today, consoles are selling like hotcakes. Dark gothic horror has arguably never been more popular, with games releasing like Bloodbourne, Dark Souls and The Evil Within.
Find a new producer in-house, and/or outsource, release a new game on consoles, and win over the fans again. For many who hated the prior regime, from ashes, Castlevania has arisen from the grave.
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In addition, there's was the public outcry at the change in the series pace/aesthetic/gameplay/music/marketing since Dave Cox came on board. It has been at times loud and scathing. I think there has been more dissent than goodwill, overall, here and on forums like NeoGaf.
I wonder how bad the dissent is. I think overall people were far more accepting of the metroidvanias. There's a thread on Neogaf lamenting the direction Castlevania/Konami in general has taken every couple of months or so.
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People accepted Metroidvanias because they still looked, played, felt like CV. LoS was pretty much the opposite of it. It was a good game shadowed by the weight of it's title's legacy. Konami could've just made LoS a new IP and have a good franchise at hand if they hadn't dubbed it Castlevania.
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^Nah, most of people who said that are just grown up with the SOTN than the games before SOTN,there's even a trend of those who skipped or doesn't prefer the Metroidvania titles who still consider LOS as Castlevania game. Most butthurt SOTN fanboys consider LOS as GOW clone even up to now but I think it's a right evolution from Classicvania rather than Metroidvania which also copied the elements of the other game like Super Metroid, I read somewhere before in game magazines or around the net that GOW is what Castlevania 3d supposed to look like than Lament of Innocence did and IGA get mad about it.
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I somehow doubt that GoW has anything to do with Castlevania. it's completely opposite to the stuff that made Castlevania (any form of it) popular.
Even LoS1 has many classic elements, and really plays more like Lament than GoW. that said, lament is an attempt at 3D metroidvania, while LoS1 is more of a 3D classicvania.
and I doubt theres THAT many people crying out about LoS. I suppose after LoS2 they are somewhat justified, but for just LoS1? hardly. it really is mostly just people who only know and associate with IGA's Metroidvanias, who can't accept anything else.
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and I doubt theres THAT many people crying out about LoS. I suppose after LoS2 they are somewhat justified, but for just LoS1? hardly.
Even the game's producer, Dave Cox, knew what was coming:
'"Some of you will not like what we are doing and I make no apologies for that. This is not the Castlevania you know. I said at E3, "Forget everything you know about Castlevania," and I meant it.
I know some of you will come along for the ride and some of you won't. I knew this when I originally pitched this and so did Konami management, but the sad fact is that this tiny minority who cling to the same formula are just that, a tiny minority, and pandering to the likes of them has made the series unattractive to the market at large and resulted in a tiny number of sales.'
http://www.chapelofresonance.com/articles/dave-cox.html (http://www.chapelofresonance.com/articles/dave-cox.html)
Forget whether it was justified or not, there actually was that many people 'crying out about LoS'. The "aesthetics" were likened to Lord of the Rings, or something out of high fantasy, and not in a good way. It's probably best left unsaid what some people thought of its story and narrative, and the musical score. Its titans? Let's not go there.
Let's not bury our head in the sand and say it was a smooth ride for the fanbase. There was great division here, and it felt to me like there was real animosity and hostility at times towards Dave Cox and the new direction.
But it is what it is, and we are where we are.
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Exactly. The discourse among the fanbase is totally different now than it was before LoS. Not saying before then it were the good old days, but it has certainly become more....toxic.
Cox is also being pretty blunt there isn't he? I totally forgot that he said that, but wow.
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Exactly. The discourse among the fanbase is totally different now than it was before LoS. Not saying before then it were the good old days, but it has certainly become more....toxic.
Cox is also being pretty blunt there isn't he? I totally forgot that he said that, but wow.
It felt to me like it was toxic back then too. A sense that Cox had came in, and was trampling over the series roots. Where were the candles, the gothic backgrounds, the old enemies? The music the series was renowned for had been replaced with a movie score . . . and so forth. It felt like scathing criticism. But it was what Cox had alluded to in that early interview.
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I remember buying the premium edition of LoS with the soundtrack. I bought the game day one and popped that cd in on my ride home, excited like a kid. But when the only familiar music was the waterfalls bit and the rest was pretty much new, I knew my nostalgia boner was in trouble.
The problem is, LoS would have been probably more widely accepted by the fanbase, if Konami just left the title as Lords of Shadow. But I get it, it is a new name and they wanted to sell copies. Same thing with Super Mario Bros 2. Except then they did not have their series well established and could get away with the huge difference. Dont listen to me I am rambling...rabble rabble....pitchforks....torches.
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It felt to me like it was toxic back then too. A sense that Cox had came in, and was trampling over the series roots. Where were the candles, the gothic backgrounds, the old enemies? The music the series was renowned for had been replaced with a movie score . . . and so forth. It felt like scathing criticism. But it was what Cox had alluded to in that early interview.
Then there was that whole "There will be no QTE's." comment Cox made and we all know how that panned out.
Now that I think about it, as years go by im starting to suspect that the inclusion of QTE's was merely executive meddling by people above Cox and were added in the last minute. But that's just me and my tin foil hat.
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Forget whether it was justified or not, there actually was that many people 'crying out about LoS'.
he still calls it a minority though, and the fact is, if he cares at all about the franchise, (which according to him he does) it makes sense to as the what was it, producer? give fair warning that this entry in the series will be somewhat different than what people are used to.
by the same token however, i can't help but feel that the "forget what you know about castlevania" was just a buzzword for marketing, considering he also says how LoS had lots of inspiration from Super Castlevania, his personal favorite. And I see it, as well. Lots of the early environments (swamps, ruins etc)give off that sort of vibe, not to mention the only classic CV music is, (aside from the Dracula battle from CV1 used for Carmilla, the portion of "The Beginning hidden at the end of Final Confrontation, and the death jingle ) from SCIV. The Waterfall, the Courtyard, are the two most prominently used tracks in the game. Arguably Vampire Killer as well, though that's more of a franchise staple, not so much "because it was in SCIV"
it really feels like a 3D modernized classicvania to me, and it feels like, if notsimply marketing, the phrase was aimed more at Metroidvania fans, or fans in general, who had grown very accustomed to IGA's metroidvania outings. i mean, in regards to that- LoS is certainly alien.
The "aesthetics" were likened to Lord of the Rings, or something out of high fantasy, and not in a good way.
Which i always felt was rediculous, and really weeds out those who never played classicvanias in their life. Games like SCIV, or CV3, don't take place in the castle entirely. They go through ancient ruins, forests, swamps, all that shit. MS took those concepts and fleshed them out. so the ancient ruins are sort of a sunset-like environment, leading up to the "dark" land of the vampires, which starts out daytime, and quickly becomes dark and snowy.
It also sounds rediculous when it was nothing like Lord of the Rings, which makes me wonder if those people ever watched that either.
"b-but trolls and goblins!!!!" they'll say. And yet, those were all in IGAvanias. Along with curry throwing skeletons and all other manner of strange creatures. Why is it suddenly a problem when LoS does it? It's not like you find those beasts in the castle, or in the land of the dead. they exist only in the early, forest/ruins areas, when you aren't fighting werewolves and wargs.
It's probably best left unsaid what some people thought of its story and narrative,
Story and narrative was really fine, and not really all that different from standard fare. "belmont wants to save his girl". the only twist being the fact that she's dead and he wants to bring her back to life, and the reveal that Zobek mind controlled him into killing her himself. I'll agree on the plot twist of SURPRISE, IM DRACULA! being really unnecessary, especially when the ending was fine as it was. a bittersweet "I saved the world, but could save my girl" type deal, sort of paralleling Leon's story, where he defeated Walter, but couldn't save Sarah. In retrospect i kind of wish they hadn't gone about the Dracula thing the way they did. Overall, while unneeded, I was ok with gabe being Dracula, if they played it right, but they seemed to have NOT done that. His transformation is ridiculously hamfisted as a pair of rushed DLC's, when it could have been something that took more time to develop. then there's LoS2 which fucks with his characterization further, after MoF had established it fairly well.
and the musical score.
maybe i'm just more accepting of change, but I found literally nothing wrong with the music outside of the fact that they opted for "atmospheric" music instead of stage by stage music- which is fine- if they hadn't used "stage" music for that. it's somewhat awkward. although, Waterfall does serve as a pretty serene choice for platforming/puzzle music.
Its titans? Let's not go there.
definitely a bit too derivative, but they didn't really bother me either. they reminded me of golem bosses with a twist.
Let's not bury our head in the sand and say it was a smooth ride for the fanbase. There was great division here, and it felt to me like there was real animosity and hostility at times towards Dave Cox and the new direction.
there definitely was, but I still dont get why. it's one thing to not be 100% onboard with it, but.... I dunno. maybe it's just because I enjoyed LoS for what it was, and as a Castlevania game, that people hating it so venomously just seems so weird and I just don't get it. It just seems like, compared to other fanbases, Castlevania is impossible to please, as everyone has totally different opinions on what makes a "true" castlevania game.
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definitely a bit too derivative, but they didn't really bother me either. they reminded me of golem bosses with a twist.
there definitely was, but I still dont get why. it's one thing to not be 100% onboard with it, but.... I dunno. maybe it's just because I enjoyed LoS for what it was, and as a Castlevania game, that people hating it so venomously just seems so weird and I just don't get it. It just seems like, compared to other fanbases, Castlevania is impossible to please, as everyone has totally different opinions on what makes a "true" castlevania game.
Because Nostalgia and being used to the previous formula so much that seeing something drastically different would either make them think about it or dismiss it all together. And because of the title's legacy, even faults which might appear to be minor such as a few annoying boss battles got blown up so much. I personality don't even remember anything bad about the Titan boss. But every now and then I read how it is what's ruining the series and other such nonsense.
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Yeah, pretty much. Which is unfortunate, but understandable - let's be fair here, shall we, the series was struggling to stay relevant before the reboot, was brought back to the spotlight with the reboot and then was promtly shot in the head under said spotlight with Lords of Shadow 2 being the mess it was.
Capcom's also retarded.
Even Sega knows to stick to their prize franchise regardless of ups and downs, and they are pretty stupid too.
Well, thing is though, if we're going by that parallel, Capcom's prize franchise isn't Mega Man - it's Resident Evil. Yeah, Mega Man is older, but Resident Evil is the one that's bringing the dough while making the fans cry (just like Sonic). Konami's prize franchise is Metal Gear, which, to my memory, didn't have an outright bad game yet. They have other long runners, yeah, but these are their primary moneymakers. Mega Man and Castlevania, while important, no doubt about that, aren't their premier franchises.
And Sega doesn't know jack about handling their non-premier franchises, otherwise we would have Streets of Rage, Shinobi and Golden Axe games (How hard it is to make a hack-n-slash sword and sorcery game in the Golden Axe universe? Come on). Then again, Sega didn't know jack ever since 32X and I speak that as a Sega fan.
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Resident evil isn't their mascot franchise though. Sonic is Sega's Mascot, just like Mario is for Nintendo.
Mega Man is the face of Capcom. Or, at least was until they let him fall by the wayside. Resident evil is their cash cow though.
I wouldn't say Castlevania was ever really Konami's mascot franchise though. I'd say Snake probably has that title.
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Well, if we're going by "face" thing, then I don't think Konami ever had the "face" franchise that they were associated with to extent of Nintendo and Mario or Sonic and Sega.
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How could everyone forget Konami Man? :)
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And Konami Girl.
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It may be dead but I hope not :(
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All signs are pointing to dead, but my stubborn, if not flat out spoiled nature and fan girl tendencies refuse to loose hope. Something will come about.
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If my 7 hours of playing Bloodborne are any indication, From Software has the juice now.
All Konami has to do is make the call (they wont make the call because they're idiots and will give Castlevania to another cheap D tier developer, probably Rebellion or something.).
And if there's any Castlevania news from Konami at all this year, iim %92.3 sure it's gonna be Castlevania Lords of Shadow Remaster collection, it's literally a matter of when the announcement is gonna be made.
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I don't think it's dead. It's merely a matter of Konami deciding which direction they want to go. I'd be ok with some mobile games because at the very least, it could be a gauge of interest and they wouldn't have to worry about packaging and shipping so there'd be a bit less overhead involved with those.
We're also entering a new console gen and there hasn't been a console gen yet that hasn't seen a Castlevania game. Konami rarely has a CV game ready at the beginning of a gen so I'd bet they're still working with the consoles and seeing what's possible.
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Konami seems to have also forgotten Contra.
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Hard core uprising was great. They need to do that with cv.
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I think it's safe to say the series is dead. Truly OOE ended the series for me, and it wasn't a bad game to go out on for 2D Castlevania. As much as I didn't mind LOS 1, it felt like a PC game ported to PS3 and I'm just going to forget about that 2.5D Castlevania Other M abortion that succeeded it.
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It's dead Jim.
Some people just don't want to see it. But the corpse is right in their front.
Castlevania is dead.
Well... considering I've got Ori and Axiom Verge JUST this year, I don't really care anymore. I'll just keep replaying the ones I like and move forward with the superior indie/smaller budget games.
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Basically classic Castlevania from a business perspective is not worth resurrecting. Too many disgruntled hardcore fans to deal with.
The smart thing to do which I said time and time again from the beginning of LOS: Let MS have consolevania in the form of LOS, but leave classicvania/metroidvania to nintendo handhelds, as they've always made them decent games. This way they would have kept both strains of CV alive and nobody would have gone hungry. I'm no businessman, but by cockblocking the hardcore fans that have supported your franchise for decades, you reap what you sow.
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From a business standpoint, I think the smart thing would be to hd remaster SOTN as everyone knows that game. That would be a good transition to the 2d Castlevania.
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Basically classic Castlevania from a business perspective is not worth resurrecting. Too many disgruntled hardcore fans to deal with.
The smart thing to do which I said time and time again from the beginning of LOS: Let MS have consolevania in the form of LOS, but leave classicvania/metroidvania to nintendo handhelds, as they've always made them decent games. This way they would have kept both strains of CV alive and nobody would have gone hungry. I'm no businessman, but by cockblocking the hardcore fans that have supported your franchise for decades, you reap what you sow.
No offense but with that logic, Konami should allow different divisions to create CV games while IGA create his own as well instead of handling the series to IGA all alone for 7 years from the very start. It's like saying that Tim Burton should allow to make his own Batman movies because he has his own hardcore fans while Christopher Nolan create the Dark Knight trilogy at the same time or Sam Raimi should allow to continue his Spiderman films while a Spiderman Reboot(The Amazing Spiderman 1&2) is in the works at the same time. :P
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No offense but with that logic, Konami should allow different divisions to create CV games while IGA create his own
What's wrong with that logic? Just because IGA was in charge for the series for 7 years doesn't mean that people who also happen to like his games think that's a good thing. It might be more beneficial for Castlevania to become a meta-franchise. There are series who pulled this off very succesfully (Megami Tensei). Technically, there already exist three sub-franchises under the Castlevania name: the main branch of Castlevania which is the classic series, and two side-branches, the "Dracula X series" (SotN and its descendants) and the LoS series. Plus there's Kid Dracula and the Pachislot series, as well as numerous one-offs. At this point, Castlevania has diverted so much from the original series that they might as well embrace this concept.
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Leave classicvania to Nintendo handhelds?
Why limit themselves when they can easily release digital copies on consoles and vita as well?
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Leave classicvania to Nintendo handhelds?
Why limit themselves when they can easily release digital copies on consoles and vita as well?
The reason I say nintendo handhelds is because of new games released on the other platforms in the last few years:
Vita has had Dracula X: Chronicles
Wii has had CV: Adventure Rebirth
These games are great, but they've been few and far between, whereas Nintendo handhelds have been the most successful and consistent medium for classicvania from COTM>OOE. If other platforms could be used then by all means, Konami should use them.
No offense but with that logic, Konami should allow different divisions to create CV games while IGA create his own as well instead of handling the series to IGA all alone for 7 years from the very start. It's like saying that Tim Burton should allow to make his own Batman movies because he has his own hardcore fans while Christopher Nolan create the Dark Knight trilogy at the same time or Sam Raimi should allow to continue his Spiderman films while a Spiderman Reboot(The Amazing Spiderman 1&2) is in the works at the same time. :P
Except your logic is flawed nobody currently gives a shit about Tim Burton's Batman films, where as 2D Castlevanias from the early to mid 2000's are absolutely outclassing their own games of the now. Christopher Nolan didn't shit on Batman's legacy now did he.
Also Nintendo did a similar thing with the Zelda series, creating a 'downfall timeline'(original timeline) to release Zelda ALBW, as well as several other games prior to this timeline being official and it's been great.
What's wrong with that logic? Just because IGA was in charge for the series for 7 years doesn't mean that people who also happen to like his games think that's a good thing. It might be more beneficial for Castlevania to become a meta-franchise. There are series who pulled this off very succesfully (Megami Tensei). Technically, there already exist three sub-franchises under the Castlevania name: the main branch of Castlevania which is the classic series, and two side-branches, the "Dracula X series" (SotN and its descendants) and the LoS series. Plus there's Kid Dracula and the Pachislot series, as well as numerous one-offs. At this point, Castlevania has diverted so much from the original series that they might as well embrace this concept.
Thank you Nagumo.
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The reason I say nintendo handhelds is because of new games released on the other platforms in the last few years:
Vita has had Dracula X: Chronicles
Wii has had CV: Adventure Rebirth
These games are great, but they've been few and far between, whereas Nintendo handhelds have been the most successful and consistent medium for classicvania from COTM>OOE.
You're highlighting one of the mistakes Konami made. Cv was stuck on nintendo handhelds and what happened? It lost popularity and fell into the hands of new development. Clearly having games exclusively on Nintendo handhelds didn't help keep cv alive.
Cv should be on consoles and handhelds as cross buy/ cross save games.
The handheld exclusive model only makes sense with games the need touch screens. That's not cv. It's a road that they need not travel again.
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Christopher Nolan didn't shit on Batman's legacy now did he.
Yes he did unfortunately. The first film was awesome. No complaints there. The second film's issue was how the Joker character was treated; someone who suffers PTSD and preaches anarchy is how Nolan wanted his Joker to be. That is not the Joker's character. And the third film? Never bothered to see it. It was even worse for wear with that sorry excuse for Bane and his so-called relationship with Ras al Gul's Daughter :P But that's all for another topic. Anyways...
I agree with Nagumo and Belmontoya. CV should be more cross-platform accessible, and should also go back to being handled by more then simply one team. Prior to IGA taking over the series we got some great CV games from many different teams and they were all enjoyable in their own way. If one element of said game wasn't very enjoyable then you easily found another to latch onto.
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You're highlighting one of the mistakes Konami made. Cv was stuck on nintendo handhelds and what happened? It lost popularity and fell into the hands of new development. Clearly having games exclusively on Nintendo handhelds didn't help keep cv alive.
Cv should be on consoles and handhelds as cross buy/ cross save games.
The handheld exclusive model only makes sense with games the need touch screens. That's not cv. It's a road that they need not travel again.
COTM>OOE = 2001>2008 = 7 Years
CVLOS>LOS2 = 2010-2014 = 4 Years
Yes, your logic makes a lot of sense.
I'm not arguing cross buy/ play for the last time... Jeebus.. What I'm saying is IF they're going to give it (Classicvania) to someone i.e. 1 developer, make it Nintendo.
Your touchscreen logic is pathetic. Everything has a touch screen these days, The CV DS games barely made us of the DS' touch screen and had great gameplay.
Furthermore, more and more people especially in Japan play mobile games, and the 3DS is still a great selling console over there, in fact Nintendo handhelds always have sold well world wide and this is known fact. Barely any people over the world own a Vita for eg compared to a 3DS.
Therefore if they want to reconnect with their hardcore (original) fan base they should do 2 things: make their older games available (all of them) and/ or remakes like Adventure Rebirth available on steam, and make new Metroidvanias/ Classicvanias for handheld console(s) that sell well, on whichever console sells well. Since these games generally arent high budget and they need to sell and since CV was always at its most popular among the hardcore fans (not the highest selling) and played best in 2d, a portable device is probably the best medium to be released on. (unless they go the Megaman 9 route)
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Your touchscreen logic is pathetic. Everything has a touch screen these days, The CV DS games barely made us of the DS' touch screen and had great gameplay.
My point was that they didn't need to be on the DS exclusively because they didn't utilize the exclusive features of the DS. I was saying that porting those games to consoles would have worked easily and widened their market.
Therefore if they want to reconnect with their hardcore (original) fan base they should do 2 things: make their older games available (all of them) and/ or remakes like Adventure Rebirth available on steam, and make new Metroidvanias/ Classicvanias for handheld console(s) that sell well, on whichever console sells well. Since these games generally arent high budget and they need to sell and since CV was always at its most popular among the hardcore fans (not the highest selling) and played best in 2d, a portable device is probably the best medium to be released on. (unless they go the Megaman 9 route)
I agree that all of the past classic CV games should be on steam. They should also be on PS store, Nintendo Eshop and Xbox arcade. They should be on all platforms.
I've been a die hard CV fan since the late 80's. How long have you been a CV fan? Are you suggesting that hardcore fans are the fans of the GBA and DS Castlevania era? They were good games and the DS was great, but your dreaming if you think that is the essence of hardcore fans. Castlevania goes a little deeper than that my friend.
Going portable exclusively for the sake of a cheap release and high profit is dated thinking unless you're thinking mobile phone gaming. A new Castlevania game (a good game, not HOD or MOF) would thrive as a digital release on major consoles. There are indie games doing it and making it look easy. Why do you think konami would have to pigeon hole Castlevania on to handhelds like 3DS when they can just as easily release it on consoles? Not that I have to do it, but I'll just cite the most successful metroidvania CV of all time... SOTN. And what platform was that on again? Oh yeah, the friggin Playstation. Not a handheld, and not Nintendo. So you're suggesting this Nintendo handheld idea as financial sound when all it has yielded konami thus far is their lowest selling Castlevanias? And my logic is pathetic?
Konami's biggest mistake has been the thinking that a console CV has to be high budget 3D epicness. All the consoles have gotten is half ass throwbacks like adventure rebirth, and shit piles like HOD and MOF. Konami needs to take the 2d action adventure genre (that CV spear headed in it's heyday) seriously again. And they need to make it available to everyone. Not just nintendo handheld owners.
I'm not saying releasing another Castlevania on 3DS is a bad idea. I'm saying the idea of doing it exclusively is. It doesn't make it more "hardcore" to put it on 3DS. It makes available to fewer gamers. That is pathetic logic.
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My point was that they didn't need to be on the DS exclusively because they didn't utilize the exclusive features of the DS. I was saying that porting those games to consoles would have worked easily and widened their market.
Yes it would have, but you're not reading the post as it was written. Last time I'm going to say IF it had to be for one initial console and made on a budget, make it initially for 3ds. Hell make it for iPhone, but it probably won't sell well because the controls would suck ass.
I agree that all of the past classic CV games should be on steam. They should also be on PS store, Nintendo Eshop and Xbox arcade. They should be on all platforms.
Not disagreeing.
I've been a die hard CV fan since the late 80's. How long have you been a CV fan? Are you suggesting that hardcore fans are the fans of the GBA and DS Castlevania era? They were good games and the DS was great, but your dreaming if you think that is the essence of hardcore fans. Castlevania goes a little deeper than that my friend.
I've been a CV fan since CV 1 on the NES. There are many things I could say but I'll stick to the subject.. What I'm saying is that the Metroidvanias for the longest time until the likes of a new game like CV: Adventure Rebirth kept the classic series alive.
The GBA>DS series kept alive part of what was the SOTN era which evolved from the classics. Maybe successful unsuccessful but at the time the original series still had its own identity and wasn't facing the inevitable death that it is today.
Don't act all holier than thou and try to push your BS on me, I never mentioned hardcore CV 'essence' once in my post, every fan is different. I personally like OOE and Simon's Quest (but then I always liked Megaman 2 more than Megaman 1) and still have respect for the more classic CV games of which Dracula XX is my favourite. Some people believe these games/are aren't sound, this doesn't make me less of a 'die hard' CV fan than anyone else. You can dismount your high horse now Gabriel.
Also we're not friends so kindly desist with the formalities.
Going portable exclusively for the sake of a cheap release and high profit is dated thinking unless you're thinking mobile phone gaming. A new Castlevania game (a good game, not HOD or MOF) would thrive as a digital release on major consoles. There are indie games doing it and making it look easy. Why do you think konami would have to pigeon hole Castlevania on to handhelds like 3DS when they can just as easily release it on consoles?
This was covered in the first part of my reply
Not that I have to do it, but I'll just cite the most successful metroidvania CV of all time... SOTN. And what platform was that on again? Oh yeah, the friggin Playstation. Not a handheld, and not Nintendo.
Really?? No shit, what about financial success though? What was the budget like on developing SOTN compared GBA/DS titles?
What were there final profit margins at the end of the day? Do you work for Konami, can you enlighten us?
SOTN was first released in 1997, how long was its production and how long did Konami create copies of the game worldwide for? But SOTN didn't sell physical copies until 2008, the newer CV games did this.
If anything SOTN was hard to find because not enough copies were made, and in this sense I agree, these titles (as SOTN is) should be on multiple platforms; PSN, XBL, etc.
Most successful Metroidvania? Sure, but CV's spirit was kept alive because new games were being released, and it wasn't due to LOI or COD, the classic series was alive on the handhelds, that's what I'm saying. Konami need not repeat this, but there's slim to nil chances of getting a new Classicvania or Metroidvania on a console without it just being a low budget DLC game, i.e. your disliked CV Adventure Rebirth.
So you're suggesting this Nintendo handheld idea as financial sound when all it has yielded konami thus far is their lowest selling Castlevanias?
I'm not suggesting it's financially anything, I'm suggesting the classic series was kept alive doing this in the past, 8 years compared to the high budget LOS' 4 years which ended terribly.
Financially unsuccessful maybe, but it was still a presence and the handheld series were a force to be reckoned with. They were still some of the best platformers to do what they did at the time. They should have just been more accessible to people with consoles and other handhelds.
In $ figure terms (by your logic) LOS>>>>SOTN due to its "success", but you don't see Konami making another LOS, because it's been tried, tested and failed. LOS2 sold less than its predecessor and they thought it would sell better.
Financial success is great, but bottom line = If you take away what made the series Castlevania then you really have nothing.
And my logic is pathetic?
Mobile gaming could actually work if there was a way to have decent controls, but I've never seen a classic CV style game successfully execute it.
Konami's biggest mistake has been the thinking that a console CV has to be high budget 3D epicness.
Exactly, I'm not disagreeing with this. High budget and 3D LOS (especially MOF>LOS2) effectively killed what made the original series great.
All the consoles have gotten is half ass throwbacks like adventure rebirth, and shit piles like HOD and MOF. Konami needs to take the 2d action adventure genre (that CV spear headed in it's heyday) seriously again. And they need to make it available to everyone. Not just nintendo handheld owners.
Adventure Rebirth was a sound game imo.
Not saying it has to be one console, read the first part of my reply.
I'm not saying releasing another Castlevania on 3DS is a bad idea. I'm saying the idea of doing it exclusively is. It doesn't make it more "hardcore" to put it on 3DS. It makes available to fewer gamers. That is pathetic logic.
Read the first part of my post, NOT saying it has to be one platform at all. I'm saying if history repeats itself and they decide on this, 3DS should be it.
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You're highlighting one of the mistakes Konami made. Cv was stuck on nintendo handhelds and what happened? It lost popularity and fell into the hands of new development. Clearly having games exclusively on Nintendo handhelds didn't help keep cv alive.
Castlevania was never stuck on Nintendo handhelds. Did you mean 2D Castlevanias?
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Well no I don't. It lives on in the influences of many different games from inspired devs who played the games as children. Just look at Specter Knight from the game Shovel Knight. Specter Knight practically screams Death from the Castlevania games, his whole stage right down to the music. As long as indie game devs exist, Castlevania will live on in one form or another the same way Megaman lives on in Mighty No 9.
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Also we're not friends so kindly desist with the formalities.
are you just autistic or what
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Castlevania was never stuck on Nintendo handhelds. Did you mean 2D Castlevanias?
Yes. Sorry, I should have specified that!
Also we're not friends so kindly desist with the formalities.
Ouch, what sharp teeth you have. Well I guess if we're not friends :-( then I'll desist from polite formalities for the sake of a fun debate. The concept of friendly debating seems beyond you anyways. You seem to relish in insulting the "logic" of others like Shinobi and myself.
Yes it would have, but you're not reading the post as it was written. Last time I'm going to say IF it had to be for one initial console and made on a budget, make it initially for 3ds. Hell make it for iPhone, but it probably won't sell well because the controls would suck ass.
IF it had to be for one initial console, and on a budget you think it should be on 3ds? Why? So less people can have access to purchasing it? So extra money can be spent on a 3d feature that most people won't use? And that makes more "budget" sense than putting it out digitally on consoles how? You're idea is shit. Deal with it.
We're at a point in modern gaming where it doesn't make sense for a game to be exclusively on a handheld unless it's something that is made specifically to utilize the hardware like dual touch screens, or whatever. Castlevania isn't exactly a game that screams a need for such hardware. There's no reason to keep any future game off of consoles.
Don't act all holier than thou and try to push your BS on me, I never mentioned hardcore CV 'essence' once in my post, every fan is different. I personally like OOE and Simon's Quest (but then I always liked Megaman 2 more than Megaman 1) and still have respect for the more classic CV games of which Dracula XX is my favourite. Some people believe these games/are aren't sound, this doesn't make me less of a 'die hard' CV fan than anyone else. You can dismount your high horse now Gabriel.
Wow man. First let me say that I don't consider you any less of a fan for preferring the metroidvania style. All that I asked was how long you had been a fan. How is that acting "holier than thou"? It's an important question when dealing with someone who thinks that "hardcore" fans must all want metriodvanias. I've been playing the game since CV1 as well. It was the first game I ever owned. I played them and collected them consistently my whole life as they were released. I picked up SOTN the day it came out. My thoughts on it were that it was a great game, but not Castlevania in the classic sense that I knew and loved it. If you've been a fan for as long as you say you have, then you should be able to at least respect and understand my opinion on that. You say you respect it, but then you follow it up with more abrasiveness. I got a good chuckle out of the "You can dismount your high horse now, Gabriel". Are you fucking serious? Do you think I'm some sort of LOS fanboy? I make praise for the first LOS game and that is all. I've spent a lot of time on this forum ripping on the other two.
Really?? No shit, what about financial success though? What was the budget like on developing SOTN compared GBA/DS titles?
What were there final profit margins at the end of the day? Do you work for Konami, can you enlighten us?
SOTN was first released in 1997, how long was its production and how long did Konami create copies of the game worldwide for? But SOTN didn't sell physical copies until 2008, the newer CV games did this.
If anything SOTN was hard to find because not enough copies were made, and in this sense I agree, these titles (as SOTN is) should be on multiple platforms; PSN, XBL, etc.
It was obviously a financial success. It was a slow burn in the US granted, but about a year after it's release it was re-released as a playstation greatest hits title and did well and better. It was not hard to find at all at the time. I remember seeing it everywhere. I would assume that a hardcore fan would know that.
Most successful Metroidvania? Sure, but CV's spirit was kept alive because new games were being released, and it wasn't due to LOI or COD, the classic series was alive on the handhelds, that's what I'm saying.
Metroidvanias are not the classic part of the series. The classic series was dead at that time. That is what happened on top of CV in general slipping further and further into obscurity. It wasn't as much being alive as it was being in a coma with the same recurring SOTN dream over and over again for nearly a decade.
I'm not suggesting it's financially anything, I'm suggesting the classic series was kept alive doing this in the past, 8 years compared to the high budget LOS' 4 years which ended terribly.
Yes, you were speaking of exclusivity to 3ds in financial terms because one of your reasons for it was "budget".
Read the first part of my post, NOT saying it has to be one platform at all. I'm saying if history repeats itself and they decide on this, 3DS should be it.
You said "IF" it has to be on one console. I was responding to your hypothetical solution to a hypothetical situation.
SOTN did great. Konami made more like that. Slowly it failed. LOS did great. Konami did more like that, and it failed again.
If history actually repeats itself, they'll try something different with the series. Not another failed model. That's what I'm rooting for. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it's something like a classicvania. That model deserves an updated shot. If anything, because it is the original and truest form of Castlevania. The series' identity is suffering. They need to bring it back to their roots. They also need to make it available on many platforms because that's what video game companies do nowadays that aren't Nintendo.
I know where you're coming from man, and I respect your love of the series and the metroidvania facet. You should know that I love some of those games as well. I'm not trying to rain on your dream of new metroidvania. I'm just voicing where I come from on that and what I want. I think the idea of 3ds only in any situation is shit, but we don't have to beat that horse anymore.
Ironically I'm involved in a new metriodvania fan game. So of course I love them as well. That's just not what I personally want from konami next.
And by the way, there are a ton of Tim Burton Batman fans out there. They're called generation X.
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CV dead? I don't think so in the long run, but Konami does have a history of kind of dropping IPs (Gradius, Goemon, Contra) and doing nothing with them for a while. I mean heck, their current cash cow, MGS was dormant for 8 years between MG2:SS and MGS. I imagine they'll let it stew for a bit before releasing another one.
Though realistically I'm unsure of Konami's future with 3D titles since Kojima was "let go (http://www.metalgearinformer.com/?p=18956)" or the Silent Hills project (seriously, P.T. was freakin' amazing for scares). So for the direction the series will take, I don't know and can't even begin to imagine. I imagine budgets will get tighter at Konami and I'm afraid that may cause any future Castlevania games we receive to be nothing more than a quick cash grab with a sub-par product.
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are you just autistic or what
Nice comment...
Unless you have something to contribute, I'm not interested.
Ouch, what sharp teeth you have. Well I guess if we're not friends :-( then I'll desist from polite formalities for the sake of a fun debate.
I'm not being cruel, I'm just being honest, we don't know one another.
The concept of friendly debating seems beyond you anyways. You seem to relish in insulting the "logic" of others like Shinobi and myself.
Well now you you just sound butt hurt and throwing slander at me for a series of comments you can't respond to.. Are you mad ?
IF it had to be for one initial console, and on a budget you think it should be on 3ds? Why? So less people can have access to purchasing it?
No, because a lot of people own 3DS, it's a high selling console, and at the end of the day unless it's a game that's released on steam/PSN/XBL/Nintendoshop it will have a good chance of gaining interest and popularity as 2d Castlevanias have in the past on a handheld console. Again if it was going to be released on ALL those mediums, then by all means.
So extra money can be spent on a 3d feature that most people won't use? And that makes more "budget" sense than putting it out digitally on consoles how?
Don't put the 3D feature in, simple.
You're idea is shit. Deal with it.
Blah blah blah is all I'm hearing.
Your grammar sucks, nobody can deal with that but you.
We're at a point in modern gaming where it doesn't make sense for a game to be exclusively on a handheld unless it's something that is made specifically to utilize the hardware like dual touch screens, or whatever.
Castlevania isn't exactly a game that screams a need for such hardware.
Actually there is, having the map/ stats on screen 1 and the gameplay on screen 2 works really nicely, that was a big selling point of just how well the DS versions worked. It wasn't about a touchscreen at all. Given multi-platform release, this could be an exclusive to 3DS(or 2DS) functionality.
There's no reason to keep any future game off of consoles.
Again you keep persisting with this when I've never said otherwise. It would be great if every game was available on every console/platform, but it doesn't always pan out this way.
Wow man. First let me say that I don't consider you any less of a fan for preferring the metroidvania style. All that I asked was how long you had been a fan. How is that acting "holier than thou"? It's an important question when dealing with someone who thinks that "hardcore" fans must all want metriodvanias. I've been playing the game since CV1 as well. It was the first game I ever owned. I played them and collected them consistently my whole life as they were released. I picked up SOTN the day it came out. My thoughts on it were that it was a great game, but not Castlevania in the classic sense that I knew and loved it. If you've been a fan for as long as you say you have, then you should be able to at least respect and understand my opinion on that.
It isn't a classic castlevania, not in the true sense of how it used to be before SOTN. It just evolved into SOTN with the addition of RPG elements.
You say you respect it, but then you follow it up with more abrasiveness. I got a good chuckle out of the "You can dismount your high horse now, Gabriel".
Glad you did.
Are you fucking serious? Do you think I'm some sort of LOS fanboy? I make praise for the first LOS game and that is all. I've spent a lot of time on this forum ripping on the other two.
I never explicitly pegged you as a LOS fanboy. The Gabriel part had nothing to do with LOS btw, it was the only game I could remember playing as a Belmont while physically riding on horseback.
It was obviously a financial success. It was a slow burn in the US granted, but about a year after it's release it was re-released as a playstation greatest hits title and did well and better.
Where are your sales figures and profit margins for these periods of time? Come one Mr Konami, you shouldn't debate purely on your opinions, when trying to prove numbers... Give me something we can use!
It was not hard to find at all at the time. I remember seeing it everywhere. I would assume that a hardcore fan would know that.
Maybe in the US and Europe it was available and very common, but I don't live in the US/ Europe and I can tell you I really had to look for SOTN.
Metroidvanias are not the classic part of the series. The classic series was dead at that time. That is what happened on top of CV in general slipping further and further into obscurity. It wasn't as much being alive as it was being in a coma with the same recurring SOTN dream over and over again for nearly a decade.
MV is an evolution of CV. It's not a disjointed limb, believe it or not it IS what the 2D franchise evolved into.
They had done the pure classics to death at the time, it needed to turn into something else and that something happened to be Super Metroid.
Yes, you were speaking of exclusivity to 3ds in financial terms because one of your reasons for it was "budget".
You said "IF" it has to be on one console. I was responding to your hypothetical solution to a hypothetical situation.
SOTN did great. Konami made more like that. Slowly it failed. LOS did great. Konami did more like that, and it failed again.
Glad that was cleared up...
If history actually repeats itself, they'll try something different with the series. Not another failed model. That's what I'm rooting for. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it's something like a classicvania. That model deserves an updated shot. If anything, because it is the original and truest form of Castlevania. The series' identity is suffering. They need to bring it back to their roots. They also need to make it available on many platforms because that's what video game companies do nowadays that aren't Nintendo.
Well I love Classicvania and Metroidvania but I'd personally be keen on something which is more classic with a higher difficulty and I do believe this is more what CV's spirit is truly about.
I know where you're coming from man, and I respect your love of the series and the metroidvania facet. You should know that I love some of those games as well. I'm not trying to rain on your dream of new metroidvania. I'm just voicing where I come from on that and what I want. I think the idea of 3ds only in any situation is shit, but we don't have to beat that horse anymore.
Horse analogies, gotta love it.
Ironically I'm involved in a new metriodvania fan game. So of course I love them as well. That's just not what I personally want from konami next.
At this point, it couldn't be worse than LOS.
At the end of the day, I respect your position as a CV fan. I will say that as fans people can be very serious about their gaming, especially CV. But it's important to laugh and have hope that the series will live on via other games if not through itself.
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Ease up a little, zangetsu. Even if folks don't literally know each other, this is a friendly forum and it's often just basic etiquette to say stuff like "my friend" and all that. I do it myself, even to new folks or people I don't know, to make 'em feel at ease. No harm meant by it, so don't act like harm is meant by it. And do try to be a little less abrasive; this forum generally tries to be more laid back rather than hardcore 'shark tank' debating. The same applies to the other people here as well, though--don't call other users "autistic" (that's offensive) or call people's opinions shit (that's not just profane but also lazy argumentation).
Not comin down hard on anybody here, just givin some friendly reminders :)
Back to the subject of the thread...I honestly think Castlevania is dead. BUT! It might be revived someday, too. It's been a very long time since I've heard anything official from Konami about it. What was the last thing we had after LOS2, some pachinko thing? But who knows, maybe they'll make a remake or revival of the series, the same way Drac always comes back ;)
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Even if folks don't literally know each other, this is a friendly forum and it's often just basic etiquette to say stuff like "my friend" and all that. I do it myself, even to new folks or people I don't know, to make 'em feel at ease.
Is this why Shiroi Koumori occasionally calls me sweety? :-[
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@Gunlord Initially I took the 'my friend' thing as tongue-in-cheek in its context, but yes point taken.
@Belmontoya Apologies for any unwanted abrasion on my behalf.
@Flame Thanks for asking if I was autistic, rather than assuming I was. :P
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@X: I call people dearie and not sweety.
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Don't put the 3D feature in, simple.
Im pretty sure it doesnt work like that.
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Now that we're all friends we should get matching nes Simon Belmont tattoos!
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I'd like to have the games go back to old continuity. Retcon the hundred year rule for Dracula and allow for breathing room for more games in the series.
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I think if old Simon B. got into Smash it would breath some good life back into the series.
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Probably not, Samus has been in Smash for a while and nothing much came from there.
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What if Konami would resurrect some of their old associated "brands" like Vampire Killer, Haunted Castle or Kid Dracula? I somehow think it should've been done ages ago. Just look at Shin Megami Tensei which has multiple branches, one of which (yes, Persona) is arguably more popular than the mainline series.
I think Lords of Shadow could've been a Vampire Killer trilogy instead of using the Castlevania name. That would've made a lot of the haters less upset. And it could expand into its very own thing to cater to fans of more mainstream 3D action games, while leaving Castlevania to the nostalgic hardcore oldschool fans.
And as cheesy as it is, the name Vampire Killer is probably easier to market than Castlevania too.
Maybe the Metroidvanias could've been Haunted Castle games. Dunno. Or maybe they're a more natural evolution of the Vampire Killer formula. Doesn't matter, it's just names.
But what I'm most excited about is the idea of a new Kid Dracula game. It could be marketed more towards the Mario/Kirby crowd. Heck, it could even be a Zeldaesque game. If Konami announced KID DRACULA REBOOT for the 3DS it would actually be one of the cooler things they've done in years. It is very unlikely, I know, but still.
My point is that there're so many things that could've been done with the franchise. Fun things!
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I'm not sure if you were talking about Vampire Killer as in the Japanese title of Bloodlines, but in case you were, it would be pretty neat to revive that particular sub-series even though it got cut short after one game. Probably would be too confusing though, since IGA tied its events into his storyline. On the other hand, it's not like canon matters now.
Kid Dracula would be sweet, too. Although I would want it to be more of a Castlevania parody than the originals were, personally.
IGA explained once SotN was called Dracula X because the X has an association with spin-off works in Japan (though weirdly enough this doesn't apply to RoB). So I always like to think of SotN and its ilk as the "Dracula X series".
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What I don't get is why they didn't touch different timelines or other issues in the universe. Like, why didn't we get more Leon chasing Mathias? Couldn't something bad happen between the 100 year cycle that the Belmonts would need to take care of?
No Belmont pancake house dating simulator where depending on the lover, changes the character you plan in a more traditional CV like romp? (Kinda like Agarest Wars I guess) There was a lot of potential that just never got used.
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What I don't get is why they didn't touch different timelines or other issues in the universe. Like, why didn't we get more Leon chasing Mathias? Couldn't something bad happen between the 100 year cycle that the Belmonts would need to take care of?
I read somewhere that Trevor was supposed to be the first ever to defeat Dracula so it's likely that there's no events after Lament of Innocence, also leon said himself that his future sons or descendants will be the ones who will defeat Dracula.
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I read somewhere that Trevor was supposed to be the first ever to defeat Dracula so it's likely that there's no events after Lament of Innocence, also leon said himself that his future sons or descendants will be the ones who will defeat Dracula.
You're correct. IGA was the one to make the claim that Trevor was the first Belmont to slay the Count. But before IGA took the reigns it was never decided upon that he was the first to kill Dracula. It was all up in the air at that point.
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You're correct. IGA was the one to make the claim that Trevor was the first Belmont to slay the Count. But before IGA took the reigns it was never decided upon that he was the first to kill Dracula. It was all up in the air at that point.
It wasn't up in the air. Sonia Belmont.
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It wasn't up in the air. Sonia Belmont.
Before Sonia, it was Trevor still, and before Trevor, it was Christopher.
IGA likely wanted Trevor to be the "first Belmont" that killed Dracula because he was never shy about hiding his fanboyism for CV3.
Personally, I still prefer Trevor and CV3's "origin" as time a Belmont defeats Dracula because of the interesting significance of the year 1476. Then again, I was always MORE interested Dracula being Vlad Tepes, not Mathias(nor Gabriel). I still think it would've been easier to frame the story without the bullshit of "who" Dracula really is.
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But as I understand, Legends' backstory had some contradictory elements to what IGA wanted to keep sacred within the official canon. Dracula being Vlad Tepes was one thing, the bigger issue being Alucard's bloodline corrupting the Belmont bloodline that conflicted with LOI's story about their bloodline being pure. Otherwise the VK (with Sara's tainted soul) would have rejected another tainted soul. I wonder if IGA ever thought about keeping Legends but retconning the inference Trevor was Alucard's child.
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From what I gathered from my research, as DragonSlayr81 said, the original progenitor Belmont was Christopher. A couple of months later we got Ralph from CV3/Akumajo Densetsu who was orginally conceived to be same character as Christopher (see this thread (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6611.0.html) for more info). Later during the development of SotN, IGA created the official timeline for the series and he decided to split Ralph/Christopher into two seperate people, making Ralph the first one who killed Dracula and Christopher his descendant, who was in turn Simon's great-grandfather.
A couple of months after SotN got released in Japan, we learn about yet another progenitor Belmont character named Sonia in Konami's official magazine which has coverage about Legends and its story. The same issue also took the opportunity to publish the timeline IGA developed, which before that point had been for internal reference only. The timeline places her before Ralph, sometime during the 1400's. However, things changed pretty quickly afterwards, as the very next issue has a small note which states the timeline from the previous volume was "developed specifically for SotN" and is "unrelated to Legends".
The following is my speculation, as I don't have enough evidence for this claim, but my personal theory is that Legends was not developed with any of the other games in mind. I think it was supposed to be a different "world" from the one that IGA created. Therefore, I don't think Sonia was ever meant to be Trevor/Ralph's mother. So I suppose when IGA became producer, he took the opportunity to fix this mistake. Six years later, we got Leon, Trevor's ancestor in IGA's world.
...and I suppose this is all completely unrelated to the point I'm trying to make. The bottom line is that in both the original CV3/Akumajo Densetsu and IGA's official timeline which assimilated the events of that game, it has always been clear that Trevor was the one who defeated Dracula first.
This is so complicated to explain, I doubt anyone fully understood what I just wrote, haha.
But as I understand, Legends' backstory had some contradictory elements to what IGA wanted to keep sacred within the official canon. Dracula being Vlad Tepes was one thing, the bigger issue being Alucard's bloodline corrupting the Belmont bloodline that conflicted with LOI's story about their bloodline being pure. Otherwise the VK (with Sara's tainted soul) would have rejected another tainted soul. I wonder if IGA ever thought about keeping Legends but retconning the inference Trevor was Alucard's child.
This is actually quite amusing, as there's an interview from one of the SotN guides where in IGA's headcanon, the reason why Alucard can use both holy and dark weapons is because he inherited the ability to use dark powers from Dracula and the ability to use holy powers from Lisa, who he considers to be from a holy bloodline. It's the exact same situation as Trevor being Alucard and Sonia's child. Except everybody always took issue with it because of the bit described above. It goes to show that we fans don't really have any idea what we're talking about, despite claiming to be experts.
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But as I understand, Legends' backstory had some contradictory elements to what IGA wanted to keep sacred within the official canon. Dracula being Vlad Tepes was one thing, the bigger issue being Alucard's bloodline corrupting the Belmont bloodline that conflicted with LOI's story about their bloodline being pure. Otherwise the VK (with Sara's tainted soul) would have rejected another tainted soul. I wonder if IGA ever thought about keeping Legends but retconning the inference Trevor was Alucard's child.
In the original Japanese story of Legends Sonia and Alucard never had a child together nor were they lovers. That was all konami of america. Sonia was already pregnant with Trevor by someone else entirely. It's unfortunate that we didn't get the Japanese story as that would made things more clear and less contradicting. And it still could have worked too but IGA wanted to do his own thing.
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Actually they were lovers, and the child is almost certainly Alucard's. The localisation of Legends was actually very good, except a few omitted details from the manual. However, trying to connect Legends with the other games is missing the point a little bit, as such connections may never have intented, despite how things played out (see my previous post).
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If they didn't intend for it to be connected why would they bother to use a character like Alucard at all? And why have them birth another cannon character such a Trevor?
I'm not buying the "it was never meant to be connected" theory. It just doesn't make sense when it is full of connected characters and clearly attempts to make a further back origin story.
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*walks in* Alucard being Trevor's father is a dumb idea. *walks out*
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*walks in* Alucard being Trevor's father is a dumb idea. *walks out*
LOL!
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Richter's words to annette is somewhat connected to "Alucard being related with the Belmonts" when he said Dracula's blood is calling for Richter and Dracula feels the same way to as well, that's my opinion.
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If they didn't intend for it to be connected why would they bother to use a character like Alucard at all? And why have them birth another cannon character such a Trevor?
I'm not buying the "it was never meant to be connected" theory. It just doesn't make sense when it is full of connected characters and clearly attempts to make a further back origin story.
I don't have any solid evidence, but I could imagine they wanted to use Alucard just because SotN made him increasingly popular (Legends was released around 7 months after SotN). Seems like an easy way to get people to buy the game. Also, keep in mind that their no official material that every confirmed the identity of Sonia's child. The theory that it's Trevor is fanon. And I understand that if Legends was indeed in the same world as the rest of the games such as CV3 and SotN it obviously makes sense to assume as such, but I'm talking about the original intent of the developers.
The thing is that Legends' plot in relation to CV3's is just bizarre. The most noteable think I can think of is Alucard going to sleep which parallels the sleep he went into inbetween CV3 and SotN, except the timing of it is wrong. Secondly, if you look at the manual and intro of CV3 (from the Japanese version, not the American/European versions) you can see the plot is written in such a way that actively discourages earlier events from taking place. Also, Legends also outright copies story elements from CV3 such Alucard looking for a companion to defeat Dracula with, Dracula as Vlad Tepes making a demonic pact in order to become a vampire, etc.
It's more like Legends tries to overwrite CV3 instead of being a prequel to it. I also considered the possibility that Legends was intented to replace CV3 somehow, but that doesn't make sense as Trevor is firmly established as a character in SotN, being mentioned several times. Hence, I got to the conclusion that it was supposed to be an alternate storyline of some sort. The inconsistenties are too deliberate to be mere oversights as a result of the developers not caring, and Castlevania didn't have any consistent storyline at the time until SotN came along and changed that. This would be something interesting for the director to clarify in an interview.
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This whole discussion is like the old debate that Han shot first. :P
Naw really. The whole concept of Alucard being Trevor's father is kinda strange. Atleast imo. I honestly don't remember the concept between Trevor (Ralph) or Christopher being the same exact character but then, as stated was later split into two different people? This is new to me and I've had an eye on the series since I was a whee lad. Or maybe I'm just reading it all wrong? o.o
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I honestly don't remember the concept between Trevor (Ralph) or Christopher being the same exact character but then, as stated was later split into two different people? This is new to me and I've had an eye on the series since I was a whee lad. Or maybe I'm just reading it all wrong? o.o
I've been with the series since CV II and I didn't know this either until it was brought up in an earlier thread, lol.
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I don't have any solid evidence, but I could imagine they wanted to use Alucard just because SotN made him increasingly popular (Legends was released around 7 months after SotN). Seems like an easy way to get people to buy the game.
The "solid evidence" takes the form of the fact that they chose to use SotN's artwork of Dracula and Alucard as the basis for their Legends designs. Alucard only ever appears like that again in DoS's Julius mode, and Dracula NEVER uses that design again in the series(each additional design differs). Note that I only mean within installments meant to be "main series canon" or were designed to be in the canon(which I'm sure some of the non-IGA canon games were created to be), not spinoffs games like Harmony of Dispair. The only other exception would be CotM's Dracula, which still uses concepts in style from the SotN Dracula, but is not as "overly obvious" as Legends's take(which is basically just a more "anime-ized" version of Ayame Kojima's work). Still, like Legends, I do believe CotM(which was the NEXT "Metroidvania"), pulled a LOT of inspiration from SotN. At the time, I think SotN was to Castlevania as what Final Fantasy VII was to JRPGs(after FFVII, not just with FF, but we saw an influx of spikey haired protags and the whole over accessorizing of belts and zippers, which really wasn't a thing in older JRPGs).
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and Dracula NEVER uses that design again in the series
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe0%2FCoD_Dracula_Cut.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140922193402&hash=d841d6e5ade10ea1902898787a888b0a)
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(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Fe%2Fe0%2FCoD_Dracula_Cut.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140922193402&hash=d841d6e5ade10ea1902898787a888b0a)
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Which brings the real question, Does anyone else believe that Curse of Darkness started out to be a 3D SoTN or but scrapped the idea and made Alucard into Hector along with a few other changes somewhere in development?
because alot of elements used in that game are pretty uncanny
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That could have been IGA's mistake right there. He obviously was still riding the SotN train when CoD was produced since it has so many similarities. In my mind he should not have bothered with it. And if it is the case that CoD was originally SotN 3D then it's clear that re-making it its own game and story was a very poor idea. It should not have been attempted in the first place. Rather he should have concentrated all his creative energies in to the 1999 game.
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Pretty sure Curse didn't start out as a SotN remake, but X-kun is probably on to something where it was meant to be more akin to a SotN-style game. Some of the common complaints about Lament at the time was that it deviated too much from the SotN-style gameplay and interface, with the limited weaponry and the odd real-time menu. So Curse remedied some of that. It -is- more convenient than Lament in that regard.
Also Hector was originally supposed to be able to wield two weapons at once, like SotN and OoE:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.castlevaniadungeon.net%2FImages%2FScans%2FCoD%2Fhector-render.jpg&hash=ebb336925a39f03343cd2db3b288c43b)
Anyways Curse is a guilty pleasure of mine. It's very cathartic to just mow your way through all the enemies and beating the everliving shit out of the stronger ones. I just wish the game was as dark as the artwork and hype suggested, and Hector a bit more of anti-hero. As it is, he immediately comes across as "good", whereas all the materials leading up the game suggested that he was going to be more "dark grey" in terms of morality.
I guess I should also wish the levels were actually interesting in terms of layout.
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In retrospect, I have to say that Curse of Darkness is probably the Castlevania game in recent history that had the most promise. It could really have been the first successful "SotN in 3D". They brought back the level system, the interconnected gameworld, the "anti-hero" main character, the fantastic soundtrack (yes, I was not a big fan of LoI in the music department, sadly). And they got rid of the fixed camera.
With a foundation like that, together with the lessons learnt from Lament (and Nanobreaker), CoD had everything going for it and should have resulted in a lot of great things. But the finished product absolutely baffles me. Most of all the friggin LEVEL DESIGN. IGA already produced a flat, empty 3D Castlevania and should've stepped up his game by this point. I somehow feel that Curse turned out EVEN flatter, which is unheard of. The game is also arguably uglier than Lament.
I don't hate CoD (I adore the soundtrack from start to finish!), but thinking about what could've been definitely puts it at the very top of my personal "Most Disappointing Castlevania games ever" list.
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In retrospect, I have to say that Curse of Darkness is probably the Castlevania game in recent history that had the most promise. It could really have been the first successful "SotN in 3D". They brought back the level system, the interconnected gameworld, the "anti-hero" main character, the fantastic soundtrack (yes, I was not a big fan of LoI in the music department, sadly). And they got rid of the fixed camera.
With a foundation like that, together with the lessons learnt from Lament (and Nanobreaker), CoD had everything going for it and should have resulted in a lot of great things. But the finished product absolutely baffles me. Most of all the friggin LEVEL DESIGN. IGA already produced a flat, empty 3D Castlevania and should've stepped up his game by this point. I somehow feel that Curse turned out EVEN flatter, which is unheard of. The game is also arguably uglier than Lament.
I don't hate CoD (I adore the soundtrack from start to finish!), but thinking about what could've been definitely puts it at the very top of my personal "Most Disappointing Castlevania games ever" list.
Honestly it wouldn't have taken much to make CoD a stellar hit, It succeeded in Art-style, interesting Boss battles, common combat, soundtrack, Area Concept, and the story was pretty good, If the Textures were a little better and the level layouts were more interesting, combat had a better combo system than the default Dynasty Warriors feel, the game would be considered amongst the best, the Innocent Devil System was great, I just with the game had level design to better implement some of the abilities, as well as challenge the players in some aspect in stages.
Still regardless of it's shortcomings, CoD is still great. I really wish Improved remakes were a trend in video games, it worked for Resident Evil
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If Hector had run a little faster too... ;)
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If Hector had run a little faster too... ;)
Oh god yes. He was slower then molasses in January. Leon was faster then him and he didn't even require the flip-dodging technique (which is what I use frequently in CoD just to make the game go that much faster).
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Hector being slow coupled with the fact that the levels seemed unnecessarily large was very painful indeed. Each new room/corridor you entered was way oversized. It's one of those few games were I think they should've made the game more compact. CoD is not exactly a long game, but it sure felt like I was in there for 60+ hours. The 2D Metroidvanias, on the other hand, felt really short, but the truth is I spent about as much time in them as in CoD. It's just that the Metroidvanias were fast and snappy, with no filler (IMO), but instead more to do in each place.
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They listened to most of the feedback about Lament except the number one complaint - repetitive, lifeless levels. The main issue is that they tried to convert the map layouts of the 2D games too literally into the 3D plane. So instead of progression being vertical- allowing for platforming and fairly interesting enemy placement - everything was horizontal.
So basically they would take this:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FhqxQP%2F1c40d5f10f.png&hash=d3493b42ee23592219d649bfcf9d05b1)
And lay it flat on the ground. Because of this, everything became just long, interconnecting corridors.
I mean, here's Garibaldi Temple:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FhqxZG%2Fa188a3ac34.jpg&hash=43f69db927502ee21847eb61f64d1c6b)
Now pretend it's a map from the handheld Castlevanias. Add platforms and ledges here and there, and it'd actually be quite fun to play, instead of trudging down hallway after hallway.
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That map made me think about a top-down Castlevania. Or possibly isometric. I can't think of many games like that outside the RPG genre. Well, there are a few I guess... Most recently the DS game Lunar Knights which IS kinda like an isometric Castlevania
A kingdom to anyone who remakes Curse of Darkness as a top-down action RPG with delicious 16-bit graphics! I think it could work really well! All maps could be used as-is.
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Earlier in this thread I was one of the people debating that Castlevania was not dead, but with the current news about Konami.... Im afraid Castlevania is probably done for. This sucks.
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I used to say it wasnt dead. But with the current news of Konami and underwhelming performance if LOS2, I think it is on a definite hiatus. But you never know, every major game company has that 1 trump card. Capcom = Resident Evil 2 remake, Square = Final Fantasy VII remake, Konami = SOTN remake. Maybe Konami will surprise is but I am swearing off Konami unless they totally grab me by the balls and whisper what I want to hear in my ear.