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Offline affinity

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3480 on: August 07, 2018, 04:36:30 PM »
-1
from what i understand, they usually don't want to do historical or realistic pieces (instead going for animu or fantasy) because (at least according to some chinese people) they want more fantasy based settings. too tired of realism and the daily grind that comes with it, they want their escapism to be an actual escape from their hard lives into the realms of wonder, not another attempt to ground and limit them. as a result, realistic games don't sell that well in asia.

doesn't help that western like realism is expensive and time consuming to do, and their gaming studios don't get hollywood tier money thrown at them unlike usa or europe. games are still seen as toys for kids, and those don't receive a lot of finances, with most money and work going into mobile market these days.

just because people want escapism doesnt mean all of them wanna play as moeblobs and unrealistic characters.  or expect all important games to go the anime/cartoon/unrealistic route with character/world design. 

there are photorealistic games centered on asian characters, like Siren 1 and 2,  and the upcoming remaster of 428 Shibuya Scramble (a photorealistic visual novel style game. whereas there are hundreds of animeish visual novel games, 428 Shibuya Scramble is an example how photorealistic characters and world can be more appealing and immersive than cartoonish characters).

photorealism is an underutilized art, and it really does not require high production values to achieve, as proven by Siren 1 and Siren 2, which with PS2 tech, they are able to produce characters more realistic and genuine than a lot of AAA games that are made on PS4 and Xbox One.

its really based on art direction and how they put together the overall visuals.

take for example 2D games, like some are 2D rpgs, thats even easier to apply photorealistic characters and worlds, since photos are easier to produce than creating characters from scratch with pixels or line art.

overall there is much potential there.  its just a shame how there are a lot of western games that aim for more realistic and authentic caucasian, hispanic and black characters, while asians in general just go anime with their character designs.

it really is degrading.   now it seems nice that some series like Yakuza someone try to make their characters japanese instead of caucasian looking characters with japanese names to them, but they are still generally not realistic enough, and that's just one genre, not everyone is into Yakuza type games, plus Yakuza itself is bad influence with the shady stuff and crimes they do.

realistic looking characters and realistic looking world would actually provide a form of escapism that cartoonish games can't provide.  the game would be realistic and at the sametime provide freedoms with no real consequences, so that in itself is escapism a lot can appreciate if the overall game turns out good and appealing.
but yea it doesnt have to be anime or uncanny to be appealing.

there's so much beauty of Japanese people and Japanese locations that its shame their industry leaders shy away from all that for the most part.
whereas westerners overall embrace realism and aim for more realistic looking people and world, though sadly, they exclusive asians in almost all their games, and those that go includes asian, dont look realistic asian.

and them shying away from realism is giving room for racism and xenophobic attitudes to spread out, which is bad.  they shouldnt think westerners wouldnt buy games with realistic Japanese characters in them, japanese developers should embrace their ethnic qualities and appearances, especially the best appearances that make their race even more special and beautiful and deserving of representation in games.

so I feel there is a crisis in those aspects with Japanese devs being too invested in anime/unrealistic characters and lacking the pride and self respect towards their own kind in games in general.   looking at the industry history, there is an unhealthy insane amount of glorification towards western ethnicities and not enough pure realistic asian representation in games.

 where is their pride?  where is their self respect for their people, country, race and especially racial ethnic traits/genetics?
those things are not fully reflected upon in their games and character designs.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 04:38:33 PM by affinity »

Offline Long John Silver

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3481 on: August 08, 2018, 04:39:43 AM »
-1
calm down, you're unnecessarily taking offense on behalf of someone who doesn't want your pity while also derailing the thread with your personal politics and beliefs. let them speak for themselves if it bothers them, they don't need anyone from the sidelines to defend them. they're not children.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 05:14:33 AM by Long John Silver »

Offline Gunlord

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3482 on: August 08, 2018, 11:04:56 AM »
0
Let's get the subject back to Bloodstained, guys, these other games are unrelated to it. In any case, there are several things they need to include or polish up, on the Bloodstained forums a lot of people have raised questions about the lighting and similar graphical concerns, so it may take IGA and his team a bit of time to address all that. But who knows, maybe if they push super hard they can get it in 2018. But again, I would put much more money on a 2019 release date.

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Offline affinity

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3483 on: August 08, 2018, 03:13:08 PM »
0
if people are not fine with the lighting and graphics as is, nothing will satisfy them.

it reminds me of a quote where someone made a  comment on how some evaluations of people, nitpick and seek the worst aspects of people, like say a certain mindset look for the positive/best aspects of people.  while actually pride themselves in their perfectionist stance, though at the sametime, that mindset really underrates and fails to see the good aspects of people they criticize, which unfairly paints them as 'bad', ignoring the good.

in relation to Bloodstained, the hypercritical people are being too nitpicky instead of focusing on the positive aspects.

would say expecting more out of the lighting and graphics really is being too perfectionist attitude, especially from a dev team that just been put together for this first game they develop together. 

yes some criticisms can encourage the devs to improve, however, I think the nitpickers are not going to be satisfied with the graphics/lighting, no matter what is adjusted.  if they dont like how it looks now, they are likely to be sucking teeth after launch.   people are setting the visual bar too high for the ROTN project.  and I think mainstream wise and commercially, if the fans get too negative and nitpicky towards the game's visuals, then that can overall harm its reception (like how Harmony of Despair was underrated primarily because it copies sprites/backgrounds from other games. meanwhile SSBUltimate is copy/pasting character models and assets and fans are ok with it, its still a 10/10 game to them).

so really, yea ROTN can use a little polish, though expecting something noticably a leap better than it looks now, is really being harsh and too demanding to the devs. 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:51:20 PM by affinity »

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3484 on: August 08, 2018, 08:31:24 PM »
+4
I have to do a little derailing since my internal spider sense (and my undergrad major) is tingling.

@Affinity: The Japanese have two faces (search honne and tatemae). They will say good things in front (respect and such that everyone wants to hear and produces a harmonious society) and bad things are hidden inside (no ones knows this unless you are part of the inner circle, or have lived in Japan for quite sometime). They are one of the most nitpicky people, especially to themselves. This also applies on why they do not want their country to be represented in the game world (The Japanese who played FFXV said that the capital was way freaky since it resembled real life so much, but us outside of Japan wanted to see more). They would rather see other worlds/countries because when they see their country, it reminds them of their real life responsibilities (very very competitive from birth) that are too much to bear (look at the suicide rates).

TLDR; It's a cultural thing. You only notice the kind smiley Japanese face, but not see the ugly depressed sad one.

PS Asians love white people. (I'm Asian, I know this unhealthy obsession first hand, urgh... all those damn whitening products and cosmetic surgeries....)

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Back to Bloodstained, I am willing to wait no matter how long it takes. :)

Offline affinity

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3485 on: August 08, 2018, 09:22:18 PM »
-3
well its messed up.  its not like americans and europeans are all proud of their people and the evil and wretched side of their history/cultures, but most dont run away from scenarios that closely resemble their land and people.   they focus on the fun escapism aspects of the game. 

yea with Japan is can be more sensitive, but the more they run away from resemblances, the more they undermine the beauty and positive side of their people and land at its realistic essence. otherwise, what other country is going to represent Japan's people and land as realistically and maturely as it is?  what other country of developers is going to glorify the real representation of Japanese and its wonderful people and country?     when all regions are making games that glorify america/europe/caucasians mostly, that really oversaturates the market.  then they cultivate problems of acceptance of asians as lead characters in games and asian civilizations in general (which are still too rare in games, meanwhile some Japan companies wasted millions for generations making games that pander to westerners like american influenced Metal Gear Solid and american dominant Resident Evil.  where are the AAA games that glorify realistic Japanese characters in Japan? well yea Sure there is Shin Megami Tensei, but thats always been so presented as anime. that's why I respect and support even sim games like Disaster Report 4, at least it has more Japan authentic representation and feature more realistic male and female japanese people to play as in a more immersive Japanese world)

but aside from that, people shouldnt think I want Bloodstained to be Japanese themed, of course not, even if it wasnt an IGAvania, I respect its art direction and the part of the world and races it encompasses.  :)anyways this side subject was partially related to the whole marketing side of things, which brought up Sony, and then things that have been neglected and related subjects came up after that.

though still back to Bloodstained ROTN, I can see where all the rants and nitpicking is going,

and people have to be aware there are A LOT of twisted people that want Bloodstained ROTN to flop.

overcriticizing and bashing it is what the haters would want.  ROTN doesnt seem to be getting the mainstream media backing, so the fanbase would undermine its reception being so harsh towards it.

theres really low probably it would turn out bad, and even IGA's weakest IGAvanias, LOI and COD, are overall solid games.

ROTN is definitely gonna surpass SOTN, Circle of the Moon, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia, etc. etc.

anyone that likes COTM could like ROTN even more.  IGAvanias have more depth and substance than classic Castlevania type games.

the IGAvania fanbase shouldn't overcriticize ROTN like the toxic Dynasty Warriors fanbase did towards DW9 (which really is better than the conservatives care to see. even for the first time ever, Koei cared to add Chinese voiceovers, alongside English, Japanese, etc. 

and those ingrates whine about clone weapons, whine about open world, ignore the superior story presentation, the superior more flexible combat system that is less dial a combo and more pick your move, and dont care to look at all the great things. and now they are already bashing Warriors Orochi 4 for being 'more of the same old school musou").

yea ROTN could get polish but there are fans fine with how it looks and would play full game with how it looks now.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 09:24:11 PM by affinity »

Offline affinity

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3486 on: August 11, 2018, 06:21:43 PM »
0

Offline X

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3487 on: August 12, 2018, 10:50:02 PM »
+2
Unlike the big corporations...  :(
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Offline BLOOD MONKEY

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3488 on: August 13, 2018, 09:23:38 AM »
+1
ROTN is definitely gonna surpass SOTN, Circle of the Moon, Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia, etc. etc.


yea ROTN could get polish but there are fans fine with how it looks and would play full game with how it looks now.

I'm not even gonna delve into your political discussion, but these are both very bold statements.
How is it gonna surpass SotN, COTM, or OoE if it doesn't have the graphical polish that those games have?
Why do people wanna play a game that they know was not made to the best of the artists ability?

You talk about how people hate on it and nitpick it but you filled an entire damn page about an argument for a feature that can be turned off.

If you expect people to take your arguments seriously, then you need to take them seriously. Have some consistency at least.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3489 on: August 13, 2018, 01:52:40 PM »
0
COD, are overall solid games.

I'm just gonna nitpick this one point.

Speaking as someone who loves the game dearly: no it goddamn isn't. It's a trashy B-movie of a video game that should be enjoyed as such. An analogy: just because I find Galaxy of Terror a fun movie to eat popcorn with friends while viewing doesn't mean it equates to something like Saving Private Ryan. One is "so bad it's good", and the other is objectively great and one of the finest examples of its artistic medium ever made.

CoD is more like Galaxy of Terror than Saving Private Ryan. It's schlock, but if you're in the right state of mind, it can be enjoyable schlock. It's not, however, a solid game in the slightest, and Iga would probably even tell you that if you asked him. And, by the way, you totally can. He's on Facebook.

Always remember that "fun" doesn't always mean "good".
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 01:57:17 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
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Offline BLOOD MONKEY

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3490 on: August 14, 2018, 10:44:22 AM »
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SOTN Thrived on breaking convention and I hope Bloodstained does the same.
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Offline affinity

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3491 on: August 14, 2018, 06:18:28 PM »
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Quote
I'm not even gonna delve into your political discussion, but these are both very bold statements.
How is it gonna surpass SotN, COTM, or OoE if it doesn't have the graphical polish that those games have?
Why do people wanna play a game that they know was not made to the best of the artists ability?

You talk about how people hate on it and nitpick it but you filled an entire damn page about an argument for a feature that can be turned off.

If you expect people to take your arguments seriously, then you need to take them seriously. Have some consistency at least.


and I dunno how you expect Bloodstained ROTN to break conventions when people these days are so hypercritical and nitpicky, that they are such hypocrites these days.  they praise SOTN for breaking convention, but they can criticize ROTN for breaking conventions.

take for example Zelda BOTW, it introduced open world at a grander graphical scale for the series, and the fans are all like automatic 10/10 scoring it, overhyping it, over praising it, but then Dynasty Warriors 9 comes around then they think the open world makes it bad. like wtf.  AND THEN sometime after BOTW comes out, even some of the zealots of the series starts to say 'hey BOTW really wasn't all that great'.    but they are all like 'if its a game doing open world and not backed by nintendo, its a bad game and shouldnt have things like open world.  open world is a nintendo staple'.    crazies are saying things like that.

like huh?  people can be so bipolar, they dont know what they want nor know what is good or bad.  most of them just follow what the majority pick.

also ROTN has graphical polish and better detail than all the previous IGAvanias.  those games look outdated compared to ROTN.
dont tell me you think Alucard's sprite looks better than Miriam's model,  or think the entrance hall in SOTN looks better than ROTN's castle entrance.
or think Order of Ecclesia's Rusalka looks as great as ROTN Bloodless

and to the best of the artists ability?  SOTN graphics are overrated even for its time. they are overpixelated and lack the detail and depth ROTN has.
SOTN looks like a videogame, while ROTN looks at least somewhat more alive.

also ROTN has waaay more options and possibilities than SOTN did.  Alucard didnt even have any true whip category weapons, and Miriam's total arsenal and powers are gonna be amazing.

now I know the devs have a lot on their plate making the largest IGAvania castle and stuff, but I would be baffled if they don't produce even nearly as much variety of bosses like SOTN does.  that's where Im a bit skeptical about ROTN.  Im not sure if it will have as much bosses like SOTN's 1st castle has, though it should surpass that number. there is quality in quantity overall.  It would be amazing if ROTN's total boss count is greater than SOTN's two castles combined. though yea anyways ROTN is sure to have interesting bosses, plus the Boss Revenge mode sounds really revolutionary and creative in the series, depending on the playable boss selection and who they are.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 06:23:26 PM by affinity »

Offline EstebanT

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3492 on: August 14, 2018, 10:07:42 PM »
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@affinity

Are you a troll?
Every time I see a gigantic text wall with every single thing being completely wrong and delusional it never fails to be you who posted it.

Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3493 on: August 15, 2018, 01:44:13 AM »
+1
@affinity

Are you a troll?
Every time I see a gigantic text wall with every single thing being completely wrong and delusional it never fails to be you who posted it.

She has the troll miester award.
Not all awards are good ones.

Offline Super Waffle

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Re: The first sign rises with the full moon.
« Reply #3494 on: August 15, 2018, 04:36:18 AM »
0
hey guys. How do you beat the last boss in Curse of the Moon?

Also yeah Bowtow isn't very good.

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