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Offline VladOfWallachia

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2021, 05:25:32 AM »
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I booted up Dracula X and goddamn it was hard! I'd forgotten how I used to play the game, it's been years. I was cussing with anger and frustration. In some cases Rondo was easier to deal with, but Maria isn't playable in Dracula X  :P

The only way I was ever able to beat this game was with save state crawling, and I didn't enjoy it enough to try getting better at it. Definitely one of my least favorite entries of the series.

Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2021, 07:46:28 AM »
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I didn't have too hard a time with drac X until the Dracula fight itself. Although it plays rigid and it wasn't a nice feeling when looked at as the next CV on SNES to follow 4.

Rondo assets should have been left alone and we should have gotten super Castlevania 5 on SNES.

It still confounds me to this day that 5 hasn't happened. I like Dracula X on its own but it's biggest offense to me has always been about what it's not (SCV5) and not so much what it is.

A Super Castlevania 5 fangame is something I would still get behind 1000%.
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Offline X

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2021, 09:55:26 AM »
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I too was disappointed that a Super Castlevania 5 never came to be. But I still played the hell out of Dracula X when I got it. I used to be good enough at it that I almost didn't take a hit. But I clearly got rusty from a long hiatus.
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Offline VladOfWallachia

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2021, 10:08:30 AM »
+1
New iterations on the SCIV formula? Sounds like a great idea!

Joking aside, I've always imagined what I would do if tasked with making an official sequel to SCIV... it's a pretty predictable and cliche idea, but I would be super hyped for Super Castlevania 5: Simon's Quest. Start with SCIV mechanics, and build Simon's Quest around them. That would be so hype.

Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2021, 02:53:25 PM »
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New iterations on the SCIV formula? Sounds like a great idea!

Joking aside, I've always imagined what I would do if tasked with making an official sequel to SCIV... it's a pretty predictable and cliche idea, but I would be super hyped for Super Castlevania 5: Simon's Quest. Start with SCIV mechanics, and build Simon's Quest around them. That would be so hype.

Exactly. SCV5: Simon's Quest. Let's keeping saying that title around the internet until it wills itself into existence. 🙂
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Offline GuyStarwind

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2021, 09:24:04 AM »
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I played and finished Dracula X for the first time. I will fully admit I wanted to just see the game and so used save states. Next time I play it, I'll do it the intended way.

Offline JR

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2021, 12:28:58 PM »
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I save-scummed my way through it, too, but there's no way I'm going back to it to beat it fair. I like tough games, but they have to be fun for me. So I'm pulling the "too old for this shit" card and moving on to HoD.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2021, 04:04:26 AM »
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I'm going through Dracula X the old fashioned way: cheat codes. Once I'm more confident, I'll graduate to save-scumming. And then I'll put it away for a good long while.
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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2021, 01:47:57 PM »
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Is CDX really that difficult? It's not one that comes to mind when I think of harder Castlevania games. The Dracula fight is even a cakewalk if you have an ax and stay on the lower pillars.
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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2021, 02:24:52 PM »
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Is CDX really that difficult? It's not one that comes to mind when I think of harder Castlevania games. The Dracula fight is even a cakewalk if you have an ax and stay on the lower pillars.

I agree with you and was talking with people about this on discord recently. Apparently nowadays you have to be careful what you say on the topic of video games being a challenge because some people think they should be able to beat games whether they take the time to learn to play them properly or not. And coming to the defense of a game some others may think is too hard can get you labelled a "gatekeeper".

I can still love cv3 despite that it still haunts me to this day as I've never finished it. The challenges are what makes a game a game and it's part of the art of game design. I haven't beaten CV3 yet because I haven't worked hard enough on it and I don't deserve to beat it yet, and that is fair and cool with me. One day I'll get there.

When I got to Dracula in DX I tapped and handed the controller to my brother out of frustration and he beat him. I was kicking myself about it, but I didn't earn the win myself and that's fair. He beat him in 3 tries. So it wasn't the game, it was me throwing a fit and not thinking clearly to do the job myself.

Input equals output. Its not gatekeeping to use walls to build a maze. Players that don't want to put in the input can complain for walls to be knocked down so they can get to the cheese. But the more walls they knock down, the less of a game they have. And it definitely can get to that point because no matter how easy a game is, it's never easy enough for everyone.

With all due respect to players of all skills, this is just a fact that applies to all areas of life, games included.

Overcoming a challenge is what makes a victory special and sweet. People use the excuse of "I don't want a challenge I just want to know what happens". Sounds like what they really want is a movie and not a game at that point. That's certainly not what retro games are about anyways.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 03:53:34 PM by Belmontoya »
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Offline JR

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2021, 06:54:39 PM »
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I can still love cv3 despite that it still haunts me to this day as I've never finished it. The challenges are what makes a game a game and it's part of the art of game design. I haven't beaten CV3 yet because I haven't worked hard enough on it and I don't deserve to beat it yet, and that is fair and cool with me. One day I'll get there.


I can relate to that. I like to think I'm pretty decent at Streets of Rage 4. I can beat Mania+ with 4 different characters, and can do so comfortably with Shiva. But I'm also in awe of how people can possibly get full combo perfect runs on single levels. But then I see their lifetime scores pop up at the ends of their runs, and they're absolutely massive. I've been playing the game for over a year, and some of these players have lifetime scores that are 10x what I have. They've had to put in an absolutely enormous amount of time into that game to do what they're able to do. I just don't have that much dedication to one single game. So I'm okay with just barely scraping enough points to get an S-rank on Arcade Mode.

Also, that intro for Drac X is pretty awesome.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2021, 07:03:11 PM »
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Is CDX really that difficult? It's not one that comes to mind when I think of harder Castlevania games. The Dracula fight is even a cakewalk if you have an ax and stay on the lower pillars.

It's absolutely a return to the brutal Nintendo Hard difficulties of the earlier games after SCIV, but it's a bit less fair as there's no invincibility frames when you take a hit. A Medusa Head will knock you back 3-4 times per hit, several enemies stun lock Richter to death with ease, and there are no circumstances under which I'd call the Dracula fight a "cakewalk" given how essential movement and balance are.

I agree with you and was talking with people about this on discord recently. Apparently nowadays you have to be careful what you say on the topic of video games being a challenge because some people think they should be able to beat games whether they take the time to learn to play them properly or not. And coming to the defense of a game some others may think is too hard can get you labelled a "gatekeeper".

I can still love cv3 despite that it still haunts me to this day as I've never finished it. The challenges are what makes a game a game and it's part of the art of game design. I haven't beaten CV3 yet because I haven't worked hard enough on it and I don't deserve to beat it yet, and that is fair and cool with me. One day I'll get there.

When I got to Dracula in DX I tapped and handed the controller to my brother out of frustration and he beat him. I was kicking myself about it, but I didn't earn the win myself and that's fair. He beat him in 3 tries. So it wasn't the game, it was me throwing a fit and not thinking clearly to do the job myself.

Input equals output. Its not gatekeeping to use walls to build a maze. Players that don't want to put in the input can complain for walls to be knocked down so they can get to the cheese. But the more walls they knock down, the less of a game they have. And it definitely can get to that point because no matter how easy a game is, it's never easy enough for everyone.

With all due respect to players of all skills, this is just a fact that applies to all areas of life, games included.

Overcoming a challenge is what makes a victory special and sweet. People use the excuse of "I don't want a challenge I just want to know what happens". Sounds like what they really want is a movie and not a game at that point. That's certainly not what retro games are about anyways.


There are players who have more skill than others, and persistence is indeed a virtue, but I also believe in bringing games to where my skills are so I can spend more time having fun and less time screaming obscenities at an uncaring screen, and it allows me to improve my skills at a pace I choose and along terms I determine, which given that I no longer have the free time I did when I was a teen and early-twenty-something suits me just fine. Dracula X was the very first Classicvania I ever beat, and that's a big part of why I remember it so fondly, but I've already proven to myself that I can beat it without cheats, and having been satisfied by that result, don't feel a rush to subject myself to that frustration again. Gaming is a subjective experience, so people can and should experience it however they can that maximizes their enjoyment. If that's through making something as brutally hard as possible, cool. If it's reducing your vulnerability to just pitfalls, well, that's also valid IMO -- watch your step and mind the gap. As long as your fun isn't infringing on someone else's, go nuts. You do you.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 07:13:38 PM by Lumi Kløvstad »
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Offline X

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #87 on: October 08, 2021, 10:42:20 PM »
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Quote
There are players who have more skill than others, and persistence is indeed a virtue, but I also believe in bringing games to where my skills are so I can spend more time having fun and less time screaming obscenities at an uncaring screen, and it allows me to improve my skills at a pace I choose and along terms I determine, which given that I no longer have the free time I did when I was a teen and early-twenty-something suits me just fine. Dracula X was the very first Classicvania I ever beat, and that's a big part of why I remember it so fondly, but I've already proven to myself that I can beat it without cheats, and having been satisfied by that result, don't feel a rush to subject myself to that frustration again. Gaming is a subjective experience, so people can and should experience it however they can that maximizes their enjoyment. If that's through making something as brutally hard as possible, cool. If it's reducing your vulnerability to just pitfalls, well, that's also valid IMO -- watch your step and mind the gap. As long as your fun isn't infringing on someone else's, go nuts. You do you.

Yup. The most important thing is that the player is having fun and enjoying what they play. And also respecting players that don't have the same experience that more hardcore players do. Everyone's different as well as their ability to play said games. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the whole "Get Good" attitude garbage that's been going around since Demon Souls was first released. Not everyone's abilities are the same and I feel it is dissing players that aren't up to par with the ones that can beat, even master those types of games. I never once have been able to finish a single Souls game to this day. The difficulty is just asking too much of my limited gaming capabilities. My bro on the other hand is pretty much a master of all the Souls games he got his hands on. Ah well... But at least I can say the most difficult Castlevania game I've ever beaten multiple times without cheat codes was The Castlevania adventure. That at least has got to count for something.
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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #88 on: October 08, 2021, 11:43:14 PM »
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Well put. "Git gud" is annoying and cringeworthy. I noticed this a lot on the Gamefaqs boards. Someone would post a topic asking for help on a game, and most people would offer advice, but eventually some tryhard would always come along and say something like, "I can't believe anyone would have trouble with this, it's super easy, blah blah blah." Always annoying.
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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Castlevania Advance Collection
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2021, 02:47:33 AM »
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@Lumi and @X
If I may clarify, I'm not saying that I don't think games shouldn't include easy modes and ways for players who are struggling to play with less difficulty and to get a chance to learn. But at a certain point a line has to be drawn. And no matter where that line is drawn there will be someone on the wrong side of it who struggles unfortunately. I get what you are saying but it's a little unfair to say that a developer is trying to diss anyone who struggles with their game. Its just an inevitability that there will be people who struggle regardless of the measures taken by a developer to make it accessible. Tester teams are helpful but still only give a small peek into the vast range of skill levels that players will have when a game is finally shared with the entire planet.

I think rewards should reflect input and that beating a game on hard should give you a better ending, ect. There are ways to make it work for everyone without eliminating the motivation for players to work to beat the challenges as the developers originally intended.

in the case of this new collection of ports Konami just slapped a rewind function onto Dracula X. Richter isn't the Prince of Persia. I would have rather seen effort put into balancing an easy mode than to add a mechanic like that that has no place in the game.

@X  and @JR
Of course it's not cool for people to ridicule other players on forums for their level of skill, but that's a separate issue that pertains to online bullying. Its an issue for forum and social media moderators.

On the other side of the coin, from a developer perspective there are some players out there who take their frustration way too far and too personal and turn to relentlessly harassing the game developers. Critical feedback is always fine but I've seen that go way too far before as well and thats not ok either. We've experienced stuff like that a little before and I've seen it happen to other devs too.

Anyways, I think the best moment of gaming in my life so far was the first time I beat Dracula in cv1. And that moment was the result of trying over and over and overcoming the urge to give up. I certainly wouldn't call every moment of that time fun while I was going through it. But the fun came from the victory and that was a level of fun that is rare and special to me. The game didn't give me a choice of difficulty (didn't even give me the choice of turning it off and coming back later), it simply put a challenge in front of me. There is a beauty to that simplicity and I think there is a place for games like that still today.

I respect where you guys are coming from. I just wanted to share my perspective on it. I think I pretty much said all I have to say on it now.

One day I'll beat cv3 and I'll throw a party to celebrate. It'll be great. 🙂
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 09:33:58 AM by Belmontoya »
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