Castlevania Dungeon Forums

The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Eric Roman on October 02, 2023, 06:21:09 PM

Title: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 02, 2023, 06:21:09 PM
This recently came my way and it echoes some sentiments I have about what’s happening next with that videogame series I used to play a lot:
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 02, 2023, 06:42:43 PM
🌈 NETFLIX🌈
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Gunlord on October 02, 2023, 08:09:08 PM
>No music

I mean say what you will about the dialogue in that scene but Divine Bloodlines kicking in is a highlight of one of the episodes.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: GuyStarwind on October 02, 2023, 08:31:49 PM
So... I'm not missing much?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: nokundhi on October 02, 2023, 09:36:26 PM
"Castlevania?"
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: X on October 02, 2023, 10:53:13 PM
Once you see the patterns you can't un-see them.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: The Puritan on October 02, 2023, 11:07:13 PM
A canonblind friend of mine looked up the OG Annette after watching Nocturne and said, "I feel cheated." And that's coming from an otherwise GURL POWUR kind of person.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: FlyingMudBlock on October 03, 2023, 12:05:34 AM
This is why i miss Lords of Shadow so much...
I rather have more Gabriel Belmont than the alternative we got stuck with.
I know... we all miss IGA and the old games but look at the point castlevania is stuck right now.
We should have supported MercurySteam a bit more and be less harsh to them, now they are happily working with metroid while we got stuck with 2 cancelled gatcha games and the nasty Netflix series.

Honestly, i really miss Enric Álvarez at this point even with his rumored "flaws".
He was the better alternative than this horror...
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: VladOfWallachia on October 03, 2023, 06:41:57 AM
Nocturne strays significantly/completely from the source material, but I also don't think the original post is a very nuanced take.

I see plenty of Castlevania in Nocturne, but in a setting the series has never explored before, making the whole thing feel completely foreign to many of you. I think its no coincidence that they picked the French Revolution as the setting, as that time and place closely mirrors the current world we live in. I read that income inequality is worse today in the USA than it was during the French Revolution when the heads of the oligarchs started to roll. Is it really such blasphemy to use Castlevania characters and themes in a new and much more relevant and relatable setting?

I myself am doing something similar with the Treasury level and the Dragon boss in my own game. The lessons learned from the wealth hoarding dragon can be seen as far back as ancient literature, and we are living in a time where this particular legend feels more relatable than ever. Nocturne strays far from the source material, but its also fun to see these characters in a setting that mirrors our own reality.

Complaining about the black characters and slavery scenes is nonsense. Castlevania has always, from the very beginning, been a tribute series to the classic monster films and pulls from horror mythology of all kind. Bela Lugosi was listed, in a mock name, during the credits of the first Castlevania. What about his film White Zombie? Does Annette and her backstory not immediately remind you of that film, which took place in the same general area? The "Zombie" in White Zombie refers to the traditional meaning of zombie from black culture, and not what it is most commonly used for now, to refer to George Romero style zombies. Annette and her backstory do not feel out of place for Castlevania in that regard.

I know you guys love Castlevania to death, but I think there also has to be some understanding here that you can't simply take a purely focused action game, with minimal story elements, and faithfully transform that into a season long TV show. I personally would not force the writer to strictly adhere to paper thin lore, and instead let them express themselves with the themes of Castlevania in a way they see is best fit for the format.

Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Foffy on October 03, 2023, 09:54:46 AM
I saw enough in the show, but we've had four seasons to accept things would be different. After season two of the last show, it's been clear they're doing their own thing.

Skin crawling dialogue aside, I actually like it more than the Lords of Shadow trilogy, even if both mess up Dracula and the symbolism he represents as the recurring villain. We've had more traditional Castlevania enemies than nearly three whole games, and that's crazy to say.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 03, 2023, 03:08:54 PM
Nocturne = The Moonlight = You can’t fight it…
The devil flies by (night) and may care/ cry.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 03, 2023, 05:48:06 PM
My problem with what I've seen of Nocturne (admittedly only two episodes) is that it doesn't even resemble Castlevania. There's fleshing out the story and then there's deviating so far from the source material that it's unrecognizable. For how awful S4 of the original series was, it still at least had some familiar baddies from the bestiary, one of the most prominent features of the games, and those enemies are rooted in mythology. So far I've only seen bog standard "night creatures" that don't stand out.

Warren Ellis isn't the greatest writer but he occasionally had an interesting idea, even if it was him doing his own thing inside a Castlevania shell. This new series seems to lack focus.

I'll finish it eventually, but right now it's leaving an awful taste in my mouth. Julia Belmont had potential as a cool character and they killed her off minutes into the show, and Richter just...sucks. Doesn't help that I think his voice actor is terrible, and the hair/face design isn't any good either. I get they were basing it off his SNES design, but that art was badass, this looks like it came from someone's DeviantArt page. Trevor was a likable and cool looking character, even if he never really behaved or spoke like I think a Belmont from the games would.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 03, 2023, 06:27:24 PM
Oh no, my show about vampire hunters fighting vampires has vampire hunters fighting vampires and I don't like it.

*rolls eyes*
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: VladOfWallachia on October 04, 2023, 08:06:47 AM
Last  thing I'll say about this, long before NetflixVania existed, I always felt like the kind of story Castlevania tells can only be told well through the actual video games. My favorite game in the series has always been 4, and that game has almost zero traditional storytelling content. You get an optional text scroll at the beginning, and a short cutscene at the end, and nothing else.

However, the experience of playing through the game feels as vivid and convincing as any story told through text or film. The care and attention paid to constructing the dense gothic horror atmosphere, paired with the tight and responsive mechanics, makes me feel like I'm actually there myself. The story of myself slowly fighting through legions monsters against the backdrop of the Transylvanian countryside and Castle Dracula captivates me as much as any Dracula movie or the Stoker novel, but this type of experience is also obviously bound to what Castlevania is - an interactive action video game, and I do not believe the experience described above can be translated accurately to another medium.

I think, for better or worse, we need to let the writers take the same elements that inform Castlevania's story and atmosphere and turn it into something that best fits the format they are working in. This also means we will get things I don't like, such as season 3+4 of NetflixVania, but I also don't think we should force the writers to stay locked up in boundaries set for a story told in a completely different medium, that requires very different things to succeed than a season long television show. The new season strays really far, but I also see the show taking those core elements, which is influence from classic horror cinema and horror mythology from all over the world, and telling an action focused story about vampire hunters. As a general fan of horror, this is what horror is, always has been, and always will be. Taking these well known myths and legends and telling a story with them in your own way.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 04, 2023, 09:29:38 AM
If we're going to complain about continuity then we have to note that Konami fucked things up with the whole history of the series, and matching it to Bram Stoker's book, and that doesn't even address how their depiction of Dracula, especially before his own birth, fucks up the actual timeline as well. So...

Maybe we should stop giving a shit about continuity and just enjoy shit for what it is.

When I got mad at Lord of Shadows it wasn't because of the change to continuity. It was because those games sucked.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: X on October 04, 2023, 10:20:52 AM
Quote
If we're going to complain about continuity then we have to note that Konami fucked things up with the whole history of the series, and matching it to Bram Stoker's book, and that doesn't even address how their depiction of Dracula, especially before his own birth, fucks up the actual timeline as well. So...

To be fair that was IGA's mistake and not Konami's. IGA made LoI that gave us a very different version of Dracula, which threw a rather huge wrench into the continuity of the series. One wrench out of several in fact but the biggest one by far. Dongled explained Konami's original history of Castlevania in his video CASTLEVANIA DECLASSIFIED. And to me at least it worked well enough and went along with what I felt about Castlevania as a kid.

What's going on with this NetFLIX series is the same thing that's been going on with a lot of other shows and movies the past ten years or so; pandering to a very specific demograph of people who don't even make up the majority but like to think they are. And who expect us to like what they serve for dinner. And of course if we don't like it we fall under numerous accusations (omitted). But the sad truth is, whatever they touch they either ruin or destroy. Maria isn't someone who's gonna mistreat nor misogynise Richter as she idolizes him. She sees him as her most beloved older brother and thus helps him rescue her beloved sister and the others. Tera had no powers and her role in Rondo was very clear; a Nun of the local church. She doesn't need powers to help Richter as she helps in her own established way (through a prayer and goodluck charm). And as for Anette herself; it's blackwashing an already established character and giving her powers too. That pretty much destroys any chance of telling the future Rondo story as we know it due to the drastic changes of these well-established characters. Then of course we have this;

Every LGBTQ+ character in the Netflix Castlevania universe
Alucard (bisexual, OG series)
Striga (lesbian, OG series)
Morana (lesbian, OG series)
Taka (gay or bisexual man, OG series)
Olrox (gay man, Nocturne)
Edouard (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)
Mizrak (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)

None of this is even remotely consequential to CV or the CV story. It's just forced (heavy-handed) and serves no real purpose except to pander to the aforementioned "specific demograph". If said story isn't about the above it shouldn't even be a footnote.

Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 04, 2023, 12:34:42 PM
Quote from: Darkmoon on October 04, 2023, 09:29:38 AM
When I got mad at Lord of Shadows it wasn't because of the change to continuity. It was because those games sucked.

And Nocturne doesn't? Or S4 of the OG series? (I actually kinda liked S3 halfway through for its weirdness and vampire titties.)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Jeepy on October 04, 2023, 05:42:42 PM
Yep, that anon nailed it.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: whipsmemory on October 04, 2023, 08:32:31 PM
Quote from: Darkmoon on October 04, 2023, 09:29:38 AM
If we're going to complain about continuity then we have to note that Konami fucked things up with the whole history of the series, and matching it to Bram Stoker's book, and that doesn't even address how their depiction of Dracula, especially before his own birth, fucks up the actual timeline as well. So...

Maybe we should stop giving a shit about continuity and just enjoy shit for what it is.

When I got mad at Lord of Shadows it wasn't because of the change to continuity. It was because those games sucked.

In this anime there's no continuity AND it sucks.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Hayoam on October 05, 2023, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: VladOfWallachia on October 03, 2023, 06:41:57 AM
Nocturne strays significantly/completely from the source material, but I also don't think the original post is a very nuanced take.

I myself am doing something similar with the Treasury level and the Dragon boss in my own game. The lessons learned from the wealth hoarding dragon can be seen as far back as ancient literature, and we are living in a time where this particular legend feels more relatable than ever. Nocturne strays far from the source material, but its also fun to see these characters in a setting that mirrors our own reality.
 

You making a game eh, I'm interested Do you have a footage?
I myself making a game a very short one as a first project.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Hayoam on October 05, 2023, 01:15:55 AM
Quote from: Darkmoon on October 04, 2023, 09:29:38 AM
If we're going to complain about continuity then we have to note that Konami fucked things up with the whole history of the series, and matching it to Bram Stoker's book, and that doesn't even address how their depiction of Dracula, especially before his own birth, fucks up the actual timeline as well. So...

Maybe we should stop giving a shit about continuity and just enjoy shit for what it is.

When I got mad at Lord of Shadows it wasn't because of the change to continuity. It was because those games sucked.

Say you're saying we have to become consoomers and just gobble whatever shit they throw at us, no way might as well just shed your humanity and become a drone.

I disagree on LOS sure in the begining I hated how it's not the same as traditional CV however I begun seeing it as it's own thing so it gets a pass for me however LOS2 definitley suck as a game regardless of everything, the first game was better. I loved how they brought back the forgotten one it was pretty cool specially when you fight him at higher difficulties.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Hayoam on October 05, 2023, 01:18:38 AM
Also music was pretty good,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Uqy9L_xtk&t=14s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Uqy9L_xtk&t=14s)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 05, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Yep, you get a bunch or nerd fans together and all they do is complain. "Oh no, the changed something." "Oh no, there's gays in my story." Nice to see it's not different here.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 05, 2023, 11:53:05 AM
Ad hominems are so passé.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 05, 2023, 12:32:28 PM
This strikes me as an insidious betrayal of CastleVania fans; it's like we no longer exist. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 05, 2023, 02:01:31 PM
When I hear the claim a game such as, hell, Belmont’s Revenge, can’t be faithfully adapted into another medium, the animation storyteller in me shouts “TRY me” and I wish I had the kind of time, energy, and attention resources to prove it.

(Ask me about the rest of ParoVadius some time.)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 05, 2023, 02:04:35 PM
Quote from: X on October 04, 2023, 10:20:52 AM
What's going on with this NetFLIX series is the same thing that's been going on with a lot of other shows and movies the past ten years or so; pandering to a very specific demograph of people who don't even make up the majority but like to think they are. And who expect us to like what they serve for dinner. And of course if we don't like it we fall under numerous accusations (omitted). But the sad truth is, whatever they touch they either ruin or destroy. Maria isn't someone who's gonna mistreat nor misogynise Richter as she idolizes him. She sees him as her most beloved older brother and thus helps him rescue her beloved sister and the others. Tera had no powers and her role in Rondo was very clear; a Nun of the local church. She doesn't need powers to help Richter as she helps in her own established way (through a prayer and goodluck charm). And as for Anette herself; it's blackwashing an already established character and giving her powers too. That pretty much destroys any chance of telling the future Rondo story as we know it due to the drastic changes of these well-established characters. Then of course we have this;

Every LGBTQ+ character in the Netflix Castlevania universe
Alucard (bisexual, OG series)
Striga (lesbian, OG series)
Morana (lesbian, OG series)
Taka (gay or bisexual man, OG series)
Olrox (gay man, Nocturne)
Edouard (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)
Mizrak (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)

None of this is even remotely consequential to CV or the CV story. It's just forced (heavy-handed) and serves no real purpose except to pander to the aforementioned "specific demograph". If said story isn't about the above it shouldn't even be a footnote.
Facts of the matter.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: VladOfWallachia on October 05, 2023, 02:41:20 PM
Quote from: X on October 04, 2023, 10:20:52 AM
What's going on with this NetFLIX series is the same thing that's been going on with a lot of other shows and movies the past ten years or so; pandering to a very specific demograph of people who don't even make up the majority but like to think they are. And who expect us to like what they serve for dinner. And of course if we don't like it we fall under numerous accusations (omitted). But the sad truth is, whatever they touch they either ruin or destroy. Maria isn't someone who's gonna mistreat nor misogynise Richter as she idolizes him.

Every LGBTQ+ character in the Netflix Castlevania universe
Alucard (bisexual, OG series)
Striga (lesbian, OG series)
Morana (lesbian, OG series)
Taka (gay or bisexual man, OG series)
Olrox (gay man, Nocturne)
Edouard (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)
Mizrak (gay or bisexual man, Nocturne)

None of this is even remotely consequential to CV or the CV story. It's just forced (heavy-handed) and serves no real purpose except to pander to the aforementioned "specific demograph". If said story isn't about the above it shouldn't even be a footnote.

Could the "specific demograph" be their huge fanbase that keeps making the show a big success for them every single season?

You list out the non straights as to reveal some nefarious agenda. Yes, in the modern era, a lot of people are choosing to be more inclusive. My nefarious agenda when including Irina into the game was to make it more inclusive than the game that inspired it, and reality validates me as the many, many times I've demoed CN at conventions, girls and women always choose to play as Irina. It's called trying to be more inclusive and considerate of others who have been traditionally left out of the fun.

Willingly going down these toxic gamergate rabbit holes is an act of self destruction. Watch yourself X.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 05, 2023, 04:58:43 PM
I chose Chun Li in Street Fighter II because she was awesome and easy to master.  I never saw my nuanced breed of Hispanic+ in any of my escapist entertainment and I never felt left out; I was too busy BEING Chun Li, Dhalsim, Adam Hunter, Akane, Shantae, Princess Daisy, or any of the other countless Player Ones.

This baked-in diversity, of course, preceded the racewashing everything got hit with about five or so years ago, and I can’t help noticing how certain distinct Crayons have been coming out winners while mutts such as myself have been demonized for unpopular opinions. 

The next divisive series best include Eskimos and Assyrians just to be sure.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Aridale on October 05, 2023, 08:05:59 PM
If you love the forced inclusion and the diversity thats awesome more power to ya... but don't try to call out people that _dont_ like it for valid reasons and try to make it like they're anti whatever.

I have zero issues with whatever anyones into and is included in whatever... as long as its all consenting and not effecting me I honestly couldnt give a shit less.

We had years of everyone in everything being white and next to no one complained ever. Then bored people decided to start getting offended on behalf of people that generally didnt care that they werent represented. Now everything has to be overly inclusive or all the white people that get offended over everything that has nothing to do with them will try to call you out on it.

The problem isnt inclusion. Its people looking for any reason they can find in every little thing in their lives to be offended even if its doesnt involve them and then making it everyone elses problem. Thats the problem.

Kinda off topic but it all leads back to: you can dislike something for overdone inclusion and not be anti blahblahblah whatever. Inclusion can make stuff worse when it serves no point other than to include it to pander to a specific audience. Just like not liking violence or nudity in something when its there just for the sake of having it.

In the case of this show I hate all the inclusion cause none of it makes any sense in the setting or has jack shit to do with Castlevania. None of it moves the story along or adds any depth to the story or the characters. Its done solely to pander to their preferred audience and thats it. If they wanna make a show about a bunch of lgbt+ etc etc fighting vampires and undead then don't call it Castlevania cause none of that fits into anything thats been established in the fuckin 30 years the series has been around.

I don't have a problem with the show. I have a problem with it being called Castlevania when it has fuck all to do with Castlevania
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: VladOfWallachia on October 06, 2023, 06:53:42 AM
Carmilla: A story about a lesbian vampire that predates Dracula. Portrayed in the Castlevania games.
Interview with the Vampire: Homoerotic story about two male vampires. Alucard from SotN visual design is directly inspired by the film.
Dracula: Many people interpret the scenes of Dracula preying on Harker (or film equivalent) as having a homoerotic aspect.

Vampires have always been strongly tied to sexuality.

Gay people have always existed and always will exist.

Creators are rightfully choosing to be more inclusive with their works.

Deal with it.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 06, 2023, 07:01:58 AM
This is why they chose the all-inclusive setting of TRANSylvania…. ⛳️ 👏🏽
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: X on October 06, 2023, 10:53:28 AM
Carmilla is the exception. It's how she was portrayed in her story and is an integral part of her tale and character arc. It also doesn't feel forced in any real way which nowadays would been seen as a breath of fresh air in a very stagnate climate. It's also what leads to her eventually being discovered and her inevitable downfall. Having gotten my hands on a copy I have read it several times and do enjoy it. She's a unique villain for CV.

Quote
Vampires have always been strongly tied to sexuality.

Not always. It's true during the Victorian era when the whole vampire hype exploded. But if you go further back in time you'll see that the eroticism which we now associate with vampires didn't exist. Instead they were seen as purely horrid monsters with no redeeming qualities what-so-ever; the stuff of nightmares. Nosferatu's Count Orlock might very well be the last to accurately represent these creatures visually.

Quote
Gay people have always existed and always will exist.

Again, true. However they aren't gay as that term is incorrect. They're homosexuals. The word 'Gay' means 'Happy'. It is a stolen word going back to the 1950's and has since been misused to label someone(s) gender preference. Lesbian is also a stolen word and doesn't reflect gender preference. Instead it refers to those who come from the island of Lesbos, Greece. Anyone can learn about this if they bothered to study. But sadly most in this day and age don't.

Quote
Creators are rightfully choosing to be more inclusive with their works.

Once more, correct. But only if it comes by honestly. Like the Carmilla novel. And unfortunately much of what has been produced is not of honesty. It's politically motivated.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Sindra on October 06, 2023, 02:21:30 PM
Quote from: Darkmoon on October 05, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Yep, you get a bunch or nerd fans together and all they do is complain. "Oh no, the changed something." "Oh no, there's gays in my story." Nice to see it's not different here.

And yet you came here to bitch about people bitching. Several times. Good jorb.  8)

Stop being so prickly and let people have their tiny little dark corner to complain. Nocturne's not so great even from a non-Castlevania lore perspective that there isn't things to nitpick about it. (accept the sexuality complaint; with the exception of the OG S3 threesome of questionable consent, it really isn't that a big an issue)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Belmontoya on October 06, 2023, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: X on October 06, 2023, 10:53:28 AM
Again, true. However they aren't gay as that term is incorrect. They're homosexuals. The word 'Gay' means 'Happy'. It is a stolen word going back to the 1950's and has since been misused to label someone(s) gender preference. Lesbian is also a stolen word and doesn't reflect gender preference. Instead it refers to those who come from the island of Lesbos, Greece. Anyone can learn about this if they bothered to study. But sadly most in this day and age don't.

I quoted this just to make sure that it was your real, actual response.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 06, 2023, 04:21:47 PM
Can’t wait for next season when Dracula returns by identifying as ‘resurrected’ and the protagonist has no limbs but still manages to wield the VK.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Hayoam on October 06, 2023, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: VladOfWallachia on October 06, 2023, 06:53:42 AM
Carmilla: A story about a lesbian vampire that predates Dracula. Portrayed in the Castlevania games.
Interview with the Vampire: Homoerotic story about two male vampires. Alucard from SotN visual design is directly inspired by the film.
Dracula: Many people interpret the scenes of Dracula preying on Harker (or film equivalent) as having a homoerotic aspect.

Vampires have always been strongly tied to sexuality.

Gay people have always existed and always will exist.

Creators are rightfully choosing to be more inclusive with their works.

Deal with it.

You grasping at HARD straws here brother  ;D

Anyways sure Carmilla was Lesbian but Carmilla herself was inspired by a real life evil figure Elizabeth Bathory who said to prey on virgin girls and bathe in their blood to keep her beauty some said she's a Vampire but surely she's not. Elizabeth Bartley and Carmilla both inspired by her.

Now Carmilla in Castlevania is a vampire whom serve Dracula and worship him like a God and that's nothing like the Romance Novel both are nothing alike besides the name and both being Vampires.

Nobody said Gay should not exist you either missed the point or obviously trying to misrepresent it by strawmanning.

I don't know what kind of Vampire media do you see but I know for sure Alucard in Castlevania isn't gay in fact Alucard a real good Catholic boy in the artwork of Alucard you can see him holding a cross dearly and he uses them as a weapon against evil.

Also any Castlevania fan worth his salt knows Alucard look was inspired by Vampire Hunter D a popular Japanese media.

You seem to misunderstand inspiration and think it's just 100% copy.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Belmontoya on October 06, 2023, 06:16:19 PM
We really need more of that Vampire Hunter D in our lives.
The goat that had a hand in inspiring Castlevania itself.
Now that is an IP that deserves a great Metroidvania game. In fact, I'm gonna put that on tonight.

Hey guys, it's cool that there are fans who like the show and it's fine that there are fans who don't. There's a plethora of reasons to like or not like it, so we shouldn't let it create a rift. I thought the first season was cool, and I sorta just checked out after the second. I love Castlevania as a game series first and foremost.

@X I still think you should chill a little dude with all of the race and gay swapping talk. You're always bringing that stuff up around here and it's getting old man. You're killing the vibe with that shit for real. Please don't become the nail in the coffin for this forum.

The Netflix show has terrible dialogue. That alone is enough to condemn it. Who the fuck cares about anything else when that basic thing can't be done well?

It sucks way more that we haven't gotten a new console CV game for a decade than it does that we got an animated series that isn't everyone's cup of tea.

It's easy enough to just not watch the show and there's no shortage of great shows out there to watch anyways.

The thing that sucks and the thing that I think is actually making everyone mad is that we are fans of a game series that has left us starving for an eternity.

Anyways, we are all here on this relic forum because we love Castlevania games.

The show is what it is. Maybe I'll check it out again later and see if my thoughts on it change.

Either way I'm happy for the people that enjoy it and I'm cool waiting for the next season of House of the Dragon.

With peace and love
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 06, 2023, 09:33:11 PM
I'm glad we've been able to vent about this without killing/condemning each other for a change. 

Compared to previous experiences, it's refreshing.  Thanks, y'all. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Spooniest on October 18, 2023, 09:37:52 PM
Quote from: Eric Roman on October 06, 2023, 09:33:11 PM
I'm glad we've been able to vent about this without killing/condemning each other for a change. 

Compared to previous experiences, it's refreshing.  Thanks, y'all.

Hey Eric (It's Nashville's Finer over here)

For my two cents, get off your high headless horses; here's the truth.

Castlevania's stories have always, always, always, alwaysalwaysalways been more about atmosphere than narrative. "Hammer Horror Pastiche" is that atmosphere, aka Gothic Horror, that line between man and monster, "children of the night, what beautiful music they make" (meanwhile Renfield is like wtf I was just here to sell you Carfax Abbey you weirdo).

That's not a story, and you can't do that stuff in an ongoing serialized tv show. You couldn't even carry a 500 word essay with it unless you are seriously good at b.s.'ing.

I really don't mind if they had to make changes to the characters as established in the games, because trying to make a story out of one or more dudes/dudettes going into a castle and just murdering anything that moves wouldn't be possible. If Castlevania's story had to be made "about something," then stealing men (and women)'s souls and making them your slaves (and perhaps the same could be said of all religions) isn't a bad way to go, thematically.

You just don't like women and you don't like your preciously fragile comfort level with your masculinity being challenged. Get over it.

Signed,

A smelly, old, hard-rock listening, hamburger-chomping boob man.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 19, 2023, 02:54:16 PM
I forgot this thread was here.

I watched it. Show was good. Whine all you want.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 22, 2023, 05:12:29 PM
Wait, weren’t you already mocking the difference of opinions in this thread already?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 22, 2023, 05:47:08 PM
Quote from: Spooniest on October 18, 2023, 09:37:52 PM
Hey Eric (It's Nashville's Finer over here)

For my two cents, get off your high headless horses; here's the truth.

Castlevania's stories have always, always, always, alwaysalwaysalways been more about atmosphere than narrative. "Hammer Horror Pastiche" is that atmosphere, aka Gothic Horror, that line between man and monster, "children of the night, what beautiful music they make" (meanwhile Renfield is like wtf I was just here to sell you Carfax Abbey you weirdo).

That's not a story, and you can't do that stuff in an ongoing serialized tv show. You couldn't even carry a 500 word essay with it unless you are seriously good at b.s.'ing.

I really don't mind if they had to make changes to the characters as established in the games, because trying to make a story out of one or more dudes/dudettes going into a castle and just murdering anything that moves wouldn't be possible. If Castlevania's story had to be made "about something," then stealing men (and women)'s souls and making them your slaves (and perhaps the same could be said of all religions) isn't a bad way to go, thematically.

You just don't like women and you don't like your preciously fragile comfort level with your masculinity being challenged. Get over it.

Signed,

A smelly, old, hard-rock listening, hamburger-chomping boob man.
HEEEEERE’S JOHNNY!!!

Sup, man!  Good to see you here for a sec, I remember our having similarly-differing thoughts on the matter, even before all this.  Anyway, in addition to various points I might’ve made across the dialogue I’ve also some deeper, nuanced, and private reasons I won't leave here.  As such, it’s patently impossible for me to enjoy this thing, but quite easy to forget where I was at in all this before the push: fuck it; if it isn’t for me, why give a fuck?  (See attached.)

All my recent bitching about this is based on a lapse in this position.  (Facilitated by relentless promotion of its superficialities appealing to the eyeballs and subs Netflix wants.)

& bollocks to the claim I'm put off by the reduction in masculinity or any of those other things, because there was a certain point where CV stopped being about single-handedly clearing a castle of monsters as Arnold and became instead Metroid with Prettyboys killing Hot Japan'ime Girls and yet I still enjoyed the hell out of it; as an aside: in the long run it was the owners--and ultimate abandoners--of the series who really blew it for me.

Accordingly, the vacancy of joy left by the serial disappointment of CV has long since been supplanted by more reliable sources I never mention here. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 23, 2023, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: Eric Roman on October 22, 2023, 05:12:29 PM
Wait, weren’t you already mocking the difference of opinions in this thread already?

And you were still bitching and moaning after. I got bored.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on October 24, 2023, 05:27:11 PM
Gotcha.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: JR on October 29, 2023, 01:19:35 AM
I don't even mind the idea of the series getting the so-called "Netflix treatment" tbh.

But can we at least get some more goddamn source material in there somewhere? Can we see more focus on the Belmonts doing cool shit, like in the games?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: BLOOD MONKEY on October 29, 2023, 04:47:28 PM
Can't believe that what's disappointed many of you seems to be such petty issues. Social justice discussion in my Castlevania? weirdos in my Castlevania? It would make less sense not to include them considering it's a series about supernatural monsters and the societal exiles fated to hunt them.
 That's all besides the point though, this Castlevania just sucks. I don't want any Castlevania that sucks and that's why it upsets me. Like JR said, it needs Belmonts doing cool shit. And it uh, needs to be animated well. More monsters too? Castlevania has only ever had like, a handful of vampires in it as a game series. I don't like the idea of it becoming a "vampire IP".

Crazy that Castlevania stopped being good in like, 2005. Is that the price we pay for the back-to-back masterpiece releases from 86-97?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: zangetsu468 on October 06, 2023, 07:01:58 AM
This is why they chose the all-inclusive setting of TRANSylvania…. ⛳️ 👏🏽

first of all, what a completely useless comment. nothing you've said in this thread has been of value, and it's like you're just inserting buzzwords to get noticed. or rather, you think about these things so much and blame them for everything that goes wrong that you can't help but bring it up when you're mad about Castlevania. you should feel embarrassed, you know there are trans people using this forum this very moment? I hope every animated Belmont in the future transitions three times and talks about their experience and struggles at length just so you can't ever get it out of your head.

this forum isn't your centralized social media where everyone is playing for a crowd. we're not a group of strangers you can forgo all social etiquette with.
this is the last goddamned place on the internet i like specifically because i can come here without seeing large amounts of people blame my identity for all of the issues they and their society grapple with. there's nothing i can do about it, the algorithms know what i am and are sure i want to see that vile hatred because it has something to do with me. I'm so tired of it, and I'm sure a lot of people here have similar topics that they know they can avoid when they're here.

this is a place for peace.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: konamiesque on October 29, 2023, 07:40:06 PM
Finally, some common sense in this godforsaken thread. Netflixvania has a myriad of issues, and the fact that some of the characters are no longer white or straight is by far the least of them.

It frustrates me beyond words that because I don't like the Netflix show, I end up getting lumped in with these reactionaries who can't stop pissing and shitting themselves about Muh Blacks and Muh Gays. I'm not mad that the show is "woke", I'm mad because I'm deeply autistic about Castlevania and have impossibly high standards for what a good adaptation of the games should look like!  :P

P.S.
Quote from: BLOOD MONKEY on October 29, 2023, 04:47:28 PM
Crazy that Castlevania stopped being good in like, 2005.
Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia are good games, goddammit! I WILL die on this hill!
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on October 29, 2023, 09:21:20 PM
Do people doubt the greatness of POR and OOE? Those are top-tier gameage.

I'd throw in LOI and COD. The latter gets flak but it's damn good once you look past the flaws.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 30, 2023, 05:50:44 PM
Quote from: Abnormal Freak on October 29, 2023, 09:21:20 PM
Do people doubt the greatness of POR and OOE? Those are top-tier gameage.


Hardly, OOE = 🐐 imo
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on October 30, 2023, 05:53:10 PM
OoE is interesting, but not my fave. Same for PoR. I like them both fine, but for me the Metroidvania era peaked with the Sorrow games. Dawn has great ideas, Aria has the better gameplay.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 01, 2023, 04:14:12 PM
DOS has some really good graphics and atmosphere but I find the level layouts mostly pretty boring. AOS is my favorite post-SOTN Metroidvania and I feel like Dawn took several steps backward and is the weakest of the DS trilogy.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on November 01, 2023, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: Abnormal Freak on November 01, 2023, 04:14:12 PM
DOS has some really good graphics and atmosphere but I find the level layouts mostly pretty boring. AOS is my favorite post-SOTN Metroidvania and I feel like Dawn took several steps backward and is the weakest of the DS trilogy.

AoS Castle & exploration>>>> DoS Castle & exploration

DoS Julius Mode >>>>> AoS Julius Mode

It’s neck and neck, but Julius Mode is worlds better in DoS (better than playing as Soma imho and takes out the touchscreen elements with the bosses)

AoS could’ve been better if it had a higher difficulty that was actually more challenging(hard mode is a joke) where as Julius Mode is that difficulty in DoS.

Therefore, DoS wins(narrowly) imo.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on November 01, 2023, 06:52:29 PM
I don't recall liking Julius mode in either. :p But I'm generally not a fan of the extra modes in these games.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on November 01, 2023, 08:55:47 PM
DoS Julius Mode is probably the best alt mode in any of the IGAvania games. It's the most complete, with its own story and alternate final boss. It's what all the other alt modes should have been.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: zangetsu468 on November 02, 2023, 04:32:55 AM
Quote from: Darkmoon on November 01, 2023, 08:55:47 PM
DoS Julius Mode is probably the best alt mode in any of the IGAvania games. It's the most complete, with its own story and alternate final boss. It's what all the other alt modes should have been.

Not to mention the feels harkening back to CVIII with interchangeable characters(Belmont>Belnades>Alucard) with a better final boss.
An alternate mode that’s so complete, it could’ve replaced the main one.

I forgot to mention that while DoS and AoS have great boss battles, Death alone in DoS tips it over the edge. The Paranoia boss/ element was cool as hell, as well.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Bloodreign on November 02, 2023, 10:33:09 PM
I've always avoided watching this show, looks like that trend will continue. Give people free range to use their own ideas, and they completely flip lore on it's ear, and out the door.

Just make a show about Simon drop kicking zombies, knocking the shit out of bats, punching walls, and eating chicken hidden within. But knowing Netflix and the people behind the show, they'd adapt the Captain N Simon instead.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: crisis on November 02, 2023, 11:27:34 PM
I’ll throw in my 2 cents:


The show isn’t that bad. Does it have things that I disagree with? Sure. However it is a loose adaptation, they’re going to take liberties to make things different which should be expected by everyone. The script & dialogue can be cringe at times. From what I’ve seen nothing in the show is as egregious as what MercurySteam did with their iteration of the Lords of Shadow games. The show follows the lore not 100%, but close enough. Perhaps had this been made in the early-mid 2000s then it would’ve been an entirely accurate retelling of the games.

Concerning Julius mode in Dawn of Sorrow, the one thing I hate about it is Julius’ ugly ass sprite. It just doesn’t look good at all. He’s slow, the way he runs looks super awkward, the way he turns around, the lack of detail.. ugh. He looked way better in Aria of Sorrow. They also watered down Alucard A LOT. I think it would’ve been badass had they made an entirely new sprite for him that depicts him in his modernized black suit.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on November 03, 2023, 12:11:25 AM
The cel art for Dawn of Sorrow was embarrassing.

Julius, a shame what it did to you. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: crisis on November 05, 2023, 07:35:14 PM
Yes it is. Especially considering how smooth & seamless Soma is animated. You can literally see his breath in the snowy outdoor areas. Why couldn’t they apply that attention to detail to Julius?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Inccubus on November 06, 2023, 12:22:29 AM
Was not expecting a thread like this after the thrashing I got for daring not to like the first series.

As for my pennies, I though the first series was cringey, off-period tripe severely lacking in Castlevania goodness.

And as for this one, I was never able to get passed the trailers.
I felt it in my bones that they were going to take an interesting and sophisticated setting like the French Revolution and devolve it into more of the same nonsense.

But, no.
This sounds much worse than I anticipated.
Glad I skipped it.

And to be clear. I don't mind diversity.
But this is not diversity; it's spineless, disingenuous pandering of the worst kind.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on November 07, 2023, 04:17:14 PM
Cheers to you, dodging these bullets; been rough on those certain-minded on the definition of “CastleVania”. 🍻🍻🍻
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on November 08, 2023, 07:35:25 AM
*jack off motion*
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: crisis on November 08, 2023, 09:00:52 AM
It’s interesting to read peoples wildly diverse opinions on the series. I find it fascinating to see a different take on the Castlevania mythos, whereas others feel it’s complete sacrilege. They seem to be sticking to the lore as close as they can; the events of Harmony of Dissonance was even mentioned, Leon Belmont was acknowledged as the progenitor of their lineage, tons of Easter eggs, etc.

I understand not everyone has to be a fan, but I’m somewhat confused how some people absolutely refuse to watch it (I’m not calling anyone out here personally, just from others that I’ve read online from other sources). I even acknowledge there’s aspects that shouldn’t have been included, even some borderline offensive stuff, but what I’ve seen thus far, there has been far worse adaptations of beloved material. Do you guys want Patchislot erotic Castlevania money grab slot machines that Konami has been producing for a decade now instead? Another re-re-release of Symphony of the Night? This Netflix series isn’t the bottom of the barrel in terms of adaptations, and it’s bringing in new fans to the series which is a good thing in my opinion.

That said, this show could’ve been FAR worse than how some are treating it. And lets not pretend a Japanese anime production company would’ve done some absolutely absurd things to the mythos as well. Once again, the show isn’t perfect, but it’s not awful like how some believe it is.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on November 08, 2023, 10:08:12 AM
Meh, just can't please some people. I didn't like Lords of Shadow (any of them, honestly, although Mirror was the most playable of the three imo), but it wasn't because of the story changes. Yeah, those were weird and dumb, but I was willing to go along with it for the sake of a different take on the material. I hated the gameplay, though, and that was where that sub-series lost me. Not because it didn't play like Castlevania but just because it wasn't fun for me at a basic level.

The Netflix series (original recipe and Nocturne) is an adaptation. Adaptations, because of the switch in media, are always going to be different. Even the best adaptations make changes to the material to suit a different form. Look at The Expanse, for example, which is a fantastic TV series based on a fantastic series of novels, and even early in the run the series makes big changes for all the reasons you'd expect in the conversion to the screen: no running internal monologue for the characters, the needs of picking up the pace, etc.

And that's with a series of books that provide a lot of adaptable content. As I noted before, creating an adaptation based on a series of platforming games is a much taller order. Story has to be created whole cloth just to keep the pace of episodic storytelling. About the best way you could do a truly "faithful" adaptation that didn't add, change, or evolve the concept would be a webseries of quick shorts, retelling the whole game in about 20 minutes.

But, fuck, if you want that just go watch a speedrun.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on November 08, 2023, 10:13:43 AM
The series' polarizing nature is old hat; this is merely the first time the melting pot of oldtime and newtime fans have to contend with such a complicated nature in the Netflix adaption. 

It's quite the different animal compared to, say, the early-2000s news the latest game will be yet another MapQuest starring Micheal Jackson. 

Or ye olde Simon VS Richter debate of opinions/personal preference. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Reinhart77 on November 09, 2023, 05:41:04 AM
There’s always been a lot of religious imagery in Castlevania.  Can you imagine how many people would be offended if another group had gotten ahold of the IP and decided to write it from a Christian perspective?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on November 09, 2023, 09:35:23 AM
Which side of the Religion divide was Nintendo of America again?  With all its inconsistent cross-editing of the CVs?
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on November 09, 2023, 01:58:37 PM
Quote from: Eric Roman on November 08, 2023, 10:13:43 AM
The series' polarizing nature is old hat; this is merely the first time the melting pot of oldtime and newtime fans have to contend with such a complicated nature in the Netflix adaption. 

It's quite the different animal compared to, say, the early-2000s news the latest game will be yet another MapQuest starring Micheal Jackson. 

Or ye olde Simon VS Richter debate of opinions/personal preference.

And which one am I? You argument seems to be "old fans don't like it", except...
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on November 09, 2023, 07:19:50 PM
Only you can answer that one; we haven't been in regular contact since 2008, so I missed out on some character development, let's say. 

Mayhaps the following edit will suffice?:
 
*the melting pot of oldtime fans (acquainted with the game series through its Development Hell) and newtime fans attracted by the cartoon's 2017 debut (whom also may know CV exclusively as such with 0 game background, which could also be a good thing; for example, I enjoyed the 2005 DOOM movie on principle of a cracking good time and 0 first-hand experience)

Your post published moments before mine so it wasn't factored into my thoughts, at any rate.  Had to get ready for the job. 
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Darkmoon on November 11, 2023, 07:12:21 PM
You're still generalizing. You didn't like it. That's your opinion. Trying to say, "all classic fans hate it" is disproven by one classic fan liking it.

Is it my favorite series? No. But then I don't even generally like anime. But it's a version of Castlevania. It's enjoyable enough.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: knightmere on December 01, 2023, 02:03:09 PM
The first show on Netflix was bad so I never bothered with the new one. I don't even like anime so it was always going to be an uphill battle for me.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: comeau on December 02, 2023, 04:20:57 AM
As someone who never liked the first series and felt it was a major betrayal of expectations and promises, here are my gripes:

(click to show/hide)

That being said, in the hands of competent writers, I think that a Castlevania anime (inspired heavily by Vampire Hunter D) could've been fucking great. I think that AoS would've made a perfect shounen, and actually has 'enough' story to potentially build around with the 1999 Demon Castle War, and with the thematic conflict of Soma's identity, and ESPECIALLY the theoretical fight choreography due to the Power of Dominance. I just wish that the foundation for that to happen was not written by people who are completely apathetic about making something good.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Abnormal Freak on December 03, 2023, 07:33:11 AM
Netflixvania's kinda ruff. (Courtesy redrum)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: konamiesque on December 03, 2023, 11:00:26 AM
comeau, your post really hit the nail on the head on why I also can't stand the Netflix show. Even if there really was too little plot to work with to make a proper adaptation (a sentiment I don't wholly agree with), the Castlevania games still have a certain tone that the show completely lacks. Making an adaptation is so much more than just "recreating the plot 1:1" and I think a lot of people in this conversation are forgetting that. There's a total lack of respect for the source material, which is super frustrating to watch as someone who has a lot of passion and enthusiasm for Castlevania.

Though, I have to say that I disagree with you calling the original PSX SotN script bad. I really like it (definitely more than the redub), but to each their own I guess.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on December 03, 2023, 02:23:50 PM
Quote from: Abnormal Freak on December 03, 2023, 07:33:11 AM
Netflixvania's kinda ruff. (Courtesy redrum)
Nailed it.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: redrum on December 03, 2023, 02:47:53 PM
happy 2222 posts at the castlevania dungeon forums :P

after all the years of memories i have of this place,
i don't remember any of them
(https://www.inverteddungeon.com/redrum/Images/hat.gif)
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: GuyStarwind on December 03, 2023, 08:07:25 PM
I'm glad I stopped after season 2.
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Gunlord on December 04, 2023, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: redrum on December 03, 2023, 02:47:53 PM
happy 2222 posts at the castlevania dungeon forums :P

after all the years of memories i have of this place,
i don't remember any of them
(https://www.inverteddungeon.com/redrum/Images/hat.gif)

:hugs rumred:
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: Eric Roman on December 04, 2023, 10:42:50 AM
Quote from: redrum on December 03, 2023, 02:47:53 PM
happy 2222 posts at the castlevania dungeon forums :P

after all the years of memories i have of this place,
i don't remember any of them
(https://www.inverteddungeon.com/redrum/Images/hat.gif)
& what a moment.
🍻🍻🍻
Title: Re: I know the feeling.
Post by: comeau on December 04, 2023, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: konamiesque on December 03, 2023, 11:00:26 AM
Though, I have to say that I disagree with you calling the original PSX SotN script bad. I really like it (definitely more than the redub), but to each their own I guess.
I think over the years, in light of more information on the original Japanese scripts for a lot of PS1 era games like Panzer Dragoon being butchered in localization, I just found that Blaustein's work in general has aged incredibly poorly. But that's neither here nor there. I will invite you to look into how he kinda recklessly messed around with things in his scripts, esp. in things like Metal Gear Solid.