Topic: Castlevania Anniversary Collection Incoming?

[Guy Belmont]

Iga has very recently stated that Simon's Quest was a huge influence on SoTN.  So I think it would be a fair inclusion.  It just might be kind of jarring to jump straight from SQ to SoTN, as there is no graphical middle ground game to bridge the gap as there is with the classic games.

That said... I do think it is perfectly reasonable to call SQ and VK 8-bit equivalents to a Metroidvania.  If not actually in the genre they were the closest 8-bit tech could get.  I would be fine with it, and I think most gamers would too.

Now I think Guy is going a little far, but I know arguing with Nagumo can be... frustrating, even if she doesn't lose her cool.  I recommend just listening to her suggestion to agree to disagree.  I have never seen her acquiesce to anyone else once she has her mind set on an idea.

Well she's never met me before , I never give up when I have my mind set on something.


 " guy give up, you can't throw an axe, your going to hurt yourself and the someone else , i said give me a 3 mouths.
 But i stood in the rain hours and hours for weeks. and so 3 mouths  came by . the big day  got it all ready. and  could i do it
could I F****"


But no I thought I'd never be able to throw an axe, but i did. Oh god 've wasted my life


 TBH she is being really silly, as IGA said that parts of CoTM didn't fit his mould. The mould that she first set out yet she's still holds stead fast to it.  How does that work? no she's being a child over this, as she just picks the ones that she thinks fits and then trying to pass that of as fact.

But  thank you for saying about IGA as I remember reading that but I hate saying something that I'm not sure is true or not, so thank you soo much.
I mean that about does it in for her argument  as he based SQ on Sotn. so by logic  SQ is a MV.

[Abnormal Freak]

I'm all for using a very broad definition of the term "Metroidvania" and having it include just about any exploration-based sidescroller, so that's cool; but there are people who only enjoy the SOTN-style games who wouldn't touch SQ, because it plays a hell of a lot differently.

COTM has far more in common with IGA's games and a lot of that has to do with the castle layout and the rhythm of progression. SQ has some items to collect to proceed, but so does every other adventure game. SOTN-style CV games have much to do with obtaining an ability to bypass an obstacle, and the beats during gameplay to obtain these is very similar across all the GBA and DS games. These abilities change the way you play, with a more complex level of backtracking than SQ as you remember the places which were previously barred, frequently checking the map to find them. It's all about leveling up (a stats system that SQ lacks) and traversing the castle to uncover the map, whereas SQ doesn't see you revisiting completed mansions and dead ends.

For the most part, COTM feels/plays very much like the IGA-produced games. SQ was an early series experiment with adventure style gameplay over strictly action platforming, but it doesn't much resemble SOTN and later games.

Chronological collections make more sense to me than cherry picking which go where based on theme or some bullshit like that. Castlevania II: Simon's Quest has a 2 in the title and directly follows the plot of the first game, so put it between CV 1 and 3 because doing it any other way is fucking stupid and I just wanna wring Konami's neck right now

[Nagumo]

are you joking? come on your clutching at straws here and back peddling like no tomorrow ,  as i see you didn't anaswer the fact that you first said SQ did have false ending, then didn't so how does that work?

No, I didn't. I checked my previous posts to make sure I didn't make a typo or something, but I couldn't find anything.

  the clues in the JP SQ where far more helpful, so here are just a few
Jp clues
Hold a red crystal in front of Deborah cliff and wait for a wind.

A person without living laurels will perish on the cursed swamp.


I mean thise clues would have anyone stumped huh, so.. more llike being spoon fed
and  to be fair there are a ton of items pretty close by? sooo again no.

It's very convenient than your ignoring these clues are hidden behind completely unremarkable brick walls which you'll never discover are fake unless you systematically throw holy water on every stone wall in the game. Simon's Quest clearly expects the player to put more effort into the game than SotN and design choices like these reflect that attitude.   

yes... a game can be hard  for lack of space, I'll spell it out, as you seem to have no grasp on how this thing works The highers ups say
"Hey we want the game to be as flashy as pos" so then the devs work as hard as they can to cram as much in and sometimes they have to trade items  for better graphics, and more rich and real  wolrd in look and feel, don't forget the day and night that must have taken up a bit space and sometimes things get left out for  time constraints, happens a lot in the gaming word.

This is such a ridiculous argument. Simon's Quest belongs to a genre (action-adventure/Action-RPG) which back in the day was actively advertised as being hard as nails. Creators of highly influential games like Tower of Druaga, Zelda, and Metroid admitted they designed their games to be that hard on purpose.  And Simon's Quest is clearly influenced by that school of game design (see the example of the brick walls and the "kneel at cliff with the red crystal" puzzle). What's more, IGA has been record saying he actively wanted to make SotN easier than previous games in the series. Seriously, how is not reasonable to conclude from this that Simon's Quest and SotN were designed with different aims in mind when analysing the two on anything deeper than mere surface level?

and again you seem to fitting things in to help your points.  so come on, lets stop kidding here, both games need a special  recrements  to get the best ending, as both have  trick ending to fool the player. Giving more replay. thats why tons of game mags and blogs count time based endings a secrets.

But the metroidvanias have you unlock a completely new part of the game as a reward for averting the fake the ending. Simon's Quest doesn't. How is that not a clear difference? My issue with your argument here is that you're comparing two games on a very shallow level and than act like there's no meaningful difference when taking a closer look at them. Yes, Simon's Quest and SotN are both open-world games with backtracking. However, after that observation has been made, things start to diverge. Does Simon's Quest give you the option to grind for items? (This was already a feature of RPGs the 80s, so don't even try claiming otherwise) Does Simon's Quest allow you to look at a Metroid-style map in order to determine where you are? Does it have a mana meter? Are there stats other than health? The answer is no. Yet all the metroidvanias do have these elements. 

So let me see if i have this right, both CoTm and SQ have the same core gameplay, both don't follow your formula
But... CoTM is an MV and SQ isn't
 I find your logic  flawed here
do you not see this weakens your points so badly.
i mean  you say there less differences but how so, You need to explore, back track, level up. collect items, again both classic ideas if a MV i mean
 IGA said himself that the Dual Set-up System did not match with the world Castlevania.
so that part was very different but you seem stil think its a MV
you seem to be picking the ones you count as MV but seem to leaveing the facts behind in order to fit in with you points.

How does it weaken my point? The traits the metroidvanias have in common outnumber the traits they don't have in common. The same can't be said when you add into Simon's Quest into the equation.   

I'm not saying you could never justify placing Simon's Quest alongside the metroidvanias. If they would do that I would just shrug and think: "Oh, it kinda, sorta fits I guess". However, what irks me is your insistence on Simon's Quest's inclusion being anything other than "perfect", as you claim.       

Anyway, I'm checking out of this discussion, so feel free to get the last word in, I guess. 

[Guy Belmont]

No, I didn't. I checked my previous posts to make sure I didn't make a typo or something, but I couldn't find anything.


It's very convenient than your ignoring these clues are hidden behind completely unremarkable brick walls which you'll never discover are fake unless you systematically throw holy water on every stone wall in the game. Simon's Quest clearly expects the player to put more effort into the game than SotN and design choices like these reflect that attitude.   


This is such a ridiculous argument. Simon's Quest belongs to a genre (action-adventure/Action-RPG) which back in the day was actively advertised as being hard as nails. Creators of highly influential games like Tower of Druaga, Zelda, and Metroid admitted they designed their games to be that hard on purpose.  And Simon's Quest is clearly influenced by that school of game design (see the example of the brick walls and the "kneel at cliff with the red crystal" puzzle). What's more, IGA has been record saying he actively wanted to make SotN easier than previous games in the series. Seriously, how is not reasonable to conclude from this that Simon's Quest and SotN were designed with different aims in mind when analysing the two on anything deeper than mere surface level?


But the metroidvanias have you unlock a completely new part of the game as a reward for averting the fake the ending. Simon's Quest doesn't. How is that not a clear difference? My issue with your argument here is that you're comparing two games on a very shallow level and than act like there's no meaningful difference when taking a closer look at them. Yes, Simon's Quest and SotN are both open-world games with backtracking. However, after that observation has been made, things start to diverge. Does Simon's Quest give you the option to grind for items? (This was already a feature of RPGs the 80s, so don't even try claiming otherwise) Does Simon's Quest allow you to look at a Metroid-style map in order to determine where you are? Does it have a mana meter? Are there stats other than health? The answer is no. Yet all the metroidvanias do have these elements. 


How does it weaken my point? The traits the metroidvanias have in common outnumber the traits they don't have in common. The same can't be said when you add into Simon's Quest into the equation.   

I'm not saying you could never justify placing Simon's Quest alongside the metroidvanias. If they would do that I would just shrug and think: "Oh, it kinda, sorta fits I guess". However, what irks me is your insistence on Simon's Quest's inclusion being anything other than "perfect", as you claim.       

Anyway, I'm checking out of this discussion, so feel free to get the last word in, I guess.

come on just bow out, he based SQ on SoTN how much more do you need,

I'm not an unreasonable man as after looking in to a lot of stuff I have conclude that AlexCalvo was right they must get  some kind of  boost of power from the whip. I wanted to put a new spin on it for my fan work, having it unlock a Belmont's full and hidden potential and the memory of the other Belmont's power flows in to them and adds to there power permanently, So thanks Alex, really help there. 

but by my logic
if saying that Julius's can't be cursed cos is due to that   ritual idea I had. and that's not just for the sake of the gameplay. then by that logic I have to take what he said about how he was weaker due to the VK losing power in DoS

so i'm big enough  to say I was wrong.

(click to show/hide)

Yet another example is the "false ending" which has become part of IGA's formula for better or worse. The bottom line is that there's a specific "recipe" that all IGAvanias tend to follow that goes deeper than just "nonlinear game with obstacles you need to bypass".           

there we go not to hard to find.
as for the clues heres another one

"The holy water causes agony to the evil, and breaks wicked walls. so one thinks" 

"ok keep that in mind"

then Linked with this "there Traders hiding in our town they are behind fake walls"

so then makes one think oh ok so i need Holy water to break walls, and i need look out odd rooms in this town, then laying the ground work for more stuff like that. So the game has once again doing it for you.

So again spoon fed.

i mean you say that it makes the player put more effort in SQ. well my first play of SOTN i didn't get item needed get the best ending.  i had to really look and work out, sooo... and i remember reading that lots of other players had a hard time with it, so SQ in JP was easier in that respect.


and again you have  no idea how SQ  was made, and seeing those clues it seem that they gave the play an easy time. so its leading the play by the hand, showing them what you have to do.
also who finds what hard is matter of opinion.
Both have the same core gameplay, porved by IGA baseing Sotn on SQ.

and i see your over looking what iGA said, as by your own logic you said  that all follow the same Patten,

and he based His game on SQ so by that logic it counts. As he used concepts from SQ for Sotn. So again
 i can't see how you still trying to get out of this.

It weakens your point  and i can't believe  i have spell this out

 cos your going by IGAs work, and word, yet he him slf said that DSS did not fit in with his idea of CV. so by that it does not follow his pattens and the pattens that you set out, so if you count CoTM you have to count SQ if you don't your just being silly. and picking what you like over facts.

 i can do this all day listening  to break free. (man that kate higgins amazing)  watching shoot your self in foot and dig your self deeper and deeper
so just do yourself a favour and bow out. I know you have this rep as master debater.

but you've never taken on a Belmont before I identify as a Belmont so  sue me 

trust me just bow out it'll hurt less in the end.

[Abnormal Freak]

Dude, your "bow out" shit is making you look like a prick. Maybe knock it off if you wanna be taken seriously, 'cos I don't know how anyone can stomach your wall of text when you keep acting like a jerk trying to strongarm the argument.

[Guy Belmont]

Dude, your "bow out" shit is making you look like a prick. Maybe knock it off if you wanna be taken seriously, 'cos I don't know how anyone can stomach your wall of text when you keep acting like a jerk trying to strongarm the argument.

it was some friendly advice.

but your Fan boy shit is making you look like a prick,  like saying stuff like

Don't pick on Nagumo, she's cool.

 really show your bias  in this.

as no one was.
 It was a debate. so if you wanna be taken  taken seriously, maybe try to understand matters as they are.
and try not seeing eveyhting as a knock aganst her and rushing to her aid like some sort of fan boy.

 also
 if you can't offer anything but childish insults, then maybe you stop trying to start something cos your beloved master has dug her self deep in. But seeing as she did just  bow out  as saying
Anyway,

I'm checking out of this discussion, so feel free to get the last word in, I guess. 


is slang for  "i can't think of anyothe points as all my aguments have been counterd" as she couldn't  justify  Cotm counting even after IGA said that the DSS did not fit with his CV world. 

As  her logic anything not fitting in IGA's  blure print, is not an MV but She counted CoTM. and the fact that SQ  was the his base for SoNT, and there for if he  took its concepts for his game, it must count. as it was in fact the first MV She just not admitting   it out of pure pride.

but to get  Nagumo  to  concede defeat in a debate  so that must be a first.
Guess thats the power of a belmont huh.

also wall of text really? you had a hard time with that Huh?

[Abnormal Freak]

That post you quoted was a jovial ribbing but all right, I'll concede you're the alpha male worthy of a dick-sucking. Now if you'll please unfasten your belt...

[Guy Belmont]

That post you quoted was a jovial ribbing but all right, I'll concede you're the alpha male worthy of a dick-sucking. Now if you'll please unfasten your belt...

wow you really are a little boy,  and I can see you can't think of anything gown up to add this.

Now please stop as you just being abusive, and adding nothing to this debate, or the topic at hand.

[EstebanT]

How can you not see that there are more differences than similarities when comparing Igavanias to Simon's Quest...

Sure... the endings and basic gameplay loops are similar (Same franchise after all) but you are ignoring alot of differences between them that affect the gameplay in less superficial ways. For example... lack of death pits, mid air controls, post-game exploration, and multiple playable characters. Concepts which were all around at the time SQ released... all of which have become staples of the Igavania genre.

I could go on listing differences between them like amount of enemies and weapons, graphics and difficulty until the end of time. 
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY ANY OF THOSE THINGS ARENT THERE. Whether it was a matter of time or resources it is unimportant 30 years later. Fact is those things arent there and would make it stick out badly in a compilation made of smooth exploration games.

Also are we going to ignore the fact that Simon's Quest sucks? I'm glad this game and The Adventure won't be wasting one of the 8 spaces.

Also the fact that Iga stated he was inspired by Simons Quest doesn't matter. He has also stated he was inspired by Legend of Zelda. Dracula's curse is his favorite classicvania. Believe it or not you can be inspired by many sources.

[Guy Belmont]

How can you not see that there are more differences than similarities when comparing Igavanias to Simon's Quest...

Sure... the endings and basic gameplay loops are similar (Same franchise after all) but you are ignoring alot of differences between them that affect the gameplay in less superficial ways. For example... lack of death pits, mid air controls, post-game exploration, and multiple playable characters. Concepts which were all around at the time SQ released... all of which have become staples of the Igavania genre.

I could go on listing differences between them like amount of enemies and weapons, graphics and difficulty until the end of time. 

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY ANY OF THOSE THINGS ARENT THERE. Whether it was a matter of time or resources it is unimportant 30 years later. Fact is those things arent there and would make it stick out badly in a compilation made of smooth exploration games.

Also are we going to ignore the fact that Simon's Quest sucks? I'm glad this game and The Adventure won't be wasting one of the 8 spaces.

Also the fact that Iga stated he was inspired by Simons Quest doesn't matter. He has also stated he was inspired by Legend of Zelda. Dracula's curse is his favorite classicvania. Believe it or not you can be inspired by many sources.

Right not lets go over the whats the same.

both have the same core gameplay, both need you to unlock the true ending, both huge worlds you need to look round. both guide the play to there goal.  both have branching paths, both have items scatters about, not a smuch but seeing as  she gave COTM a pass then we can give this. also theres only so much room to fit in, as this game was made in the 80s so we need to look at the context of the time it was made, and looking at the sptites  they seem more  clear and defind, also the afftcs in game must have taken up space. mean less Item, the day and night. evem more space used up.
I could go on, but frankly we've done this one.

yes I agree there are some diffs But COTM also has huge diffs so much that IGA himself  say it didn't fit with his idea. But she still counted it.


and yeah can be inspired by many sources. what's you point? SQ core game play is where he got the idea for SOTn

and as by her own logic SoTN was the bench marks for all MV and as it got its concepts from SQ it makes SQ a MV
So again you seem to missing this out.

And just saying it sucks is not really helpful as it depends on who you ask, so lets just stick to the facts.

Bottom line SQ's Game play ideas where put in to Sotn and if she counts that as MV, she has to count SQ.

[EstebanT]

Fist of all I'm not Nagumo. Why are you using her arguments against me?

Second of all... its obvious you're not even reading what we're saying. All your points have been quickly addressed and destroyed but you're too far up your own ass to notice. See ya.

[Guy Belmont]

Fist of all I'm not Nagumo. Why are you using her arguments against me?

Second of all... its obvious you're not even reading what we're saying. All your points have been quickly addressed and destroyed but you're too far up your own ass to notice. See ya.

No you got that the other way  round, funny how those that can't win get pissy
why, cos you points are the same as hers, I don't Think it counts cos I don't like it. never mind the facts that have been layed out in front of you.
And the same could be said of you.
 your not reading what I say, as you seem to be  ignoring my points in favour if you own.
 I have  quickly addressed and destroyed  your points, seems your not reading. But see ya

[EstebanT]

And predictably your response is basically "I know you are... but what am I?" Like four different times.

[Mysterii]

JESUS H CHRIST

Could we get back at the topic at hand and stop with the back and forth mudslinging?!  If you want to do that, take it to PMs.

[Guy Belmont]

And predictably your response is basically "I know you are... but what am I?" Like four different times.

wow really are very sad, after being shot down and

 predictably your response is basically "errr run out of augments so I know post some vid  make myself cool, but not address any of said point cos I have the brain of some angry Kid" as your point was

"No way man It SQ sucks no way is it a MV"


 forgetting that fact that  made the path for the other MV, and countless other count it an MV, I can't believe that I have to go over this again, but seeing as you having a hard time with this
 
Both have a large interconnected map, Not all parts of the map are available.  so the player needs to hunt down the needed items to pass the area that is blocked off and move on this will require back tracking till said item is found, often the boss will be guarding this item, also branching paths, hidden ending, also items to collet, some you don't need. some you do, the player is also hand held showing them skills that'll need for later on with the clues. you can level up , upgrade you weapon

all things that both SQ and SOTn have, and what make an MV and as both you and Nagumo augment seems to be "no cos it still don't follow the Pattern you lose".   But yet you give CoTm a pass and like said about IGA and the DSS before. So we now   by both of your onw logic we have to expect that all have there own vibes, but are still counted as MV

But  yet non of these points where touch on, no you just left a lazy

"your just loser here a vid i'm soo boss, and it makes saves me from not being able to answer any points."
 
But here's some  friendly advice.
get a new avatar , as that's not helping your whole brainless image, and grow up. as if you can add anything helpful or insightful to this debate, then try 4chan, that's a great place for over grown kids.

JESUS H CHRIST

Could we get back at the topic at hand and stop with the back and forth mudslinging?!  If you want to do that, take it to PMs.

To be fair until this this guy and Abnormal Freak started throwing childish insults, this was a dignified Debate. really shows the sort guys they are as all they can pull from there heads is 

I'll suck your dick and post some childish vid instead of using his  mind, really has lowered this topic.

But when I have an idea I never let go and always see it to the end.