Topic: Did NES Classicvanias need to be more forgiving with jumps?

[TheouAegis]

This topic actually has more to do with the game I'm programming than the old NES classicvanias, but it's still a matter concerning the old games enough that I think it warrants being in this forum.

I felt jumping in my game was too difficult to pull off - too clunky, if you will - due to having to press Left/Right before the jump key if you wanted to jump horizontally. This was the case in NES Classicvanias too, but since I rarely stood still in those, I never really noticed and felt they were actually more forgiving than that. So I decided to program some degree of forgiveness into my game, giving the player 1/30th of a second after pressing the jump key to press whatever direction Belmont was currently facing. This handled like a dream, but when I went back again to the CV3 on the NES, I discovered after testing that my perceptions were incorrect all along - the controls were just as unforgiving in the NES games as they were in my game.

So my question to you guys is do you think a Classicvania game in the vein of the NES series would benefit from 1/30th of a second of forgiveness in horizontal jumping? Or do you think the strictness of pressing left/right before jumping was good enough?

[X]

I take a look at the jumping action of CV1 and CV3 and find they are pretty much the same. The jumping in CV2 however seemed more stable; not as awkward or cumbersome. It's almost as if CV2 had the best game engine of all the NES titles whereas CV3 merely took the CV1 engine and adjusted it only slightly to accommodate the new playable characters.

[Ahasverus]

What? I've always thought that Simon's Quest has the worst jump controls of the classic games, don't get me started on those single floating blocks U.U

I think CV Adventure Rebirth nailed the old jump controls

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

I think they should've improved the jumping controls to be closer to more tight and responsive 2D platformers. It's about 25 years too late for that though. Games with decent jumping controls existed even back then though.

[Inccubus]

The hell are you guys talking about? All the old 2D platformers require you to press left or right while pressing the jump button to jump horizontally. The only real differences were in the ability to control your jump in mid air to varying degrees and the physics of the jump in relation to your movement speed and/or gravity.

I find all 3 CV games to function pretty much the same, and more so their jump controls are more realistic and fit the games very well. Giving the player any gap between pressing a direction key and the jump button would change the feel of the game. Not to mention it would just feel wierd.

This is all prompting me to do a pixel by pixel analysis of CV1 - 3 to see if there are any differences in the controls at all 'cause I really don't remember there being any and I played all three just a couple of months ago.

[TheouAegis]

That's always been one of my peeves for video games. I mean, Mario can change direction mid-air?! Samus I can forgive - maybe she has boosters in her suit. But Mario's just wearing overalls! And I don't care how flippin' ninja Ryu was, there's no way he should have been able to move so freely in midair. And while we're on the topic of poor jumping, nothing beats Bionic Commando -- YOU COULDN'T JUMP AT ALL!!

OK, overall general consensus - people hate Classicvania jumping. I'll leave the extra 1/30 second in.

On a related matter, can someone try to find an algorithm for these:
It's a sine function, I know that much.

Code: [Select]

3-Tile Platform                           5-Tile Platform
Time  Distance                           Time  Distance
0 0 0 0
24 1 18 1
32 2 27 2
38 3 33 3
42 4 38 4
46 5 42 5
50 6 46 6
53 7 49 7
56 8 52 8
59 9 55 9
61 10 58 10
64 11 60 11
66 12 63 12
69 13 65 13
71 14 67 14
73 15 70 15
75 16 72 16
77 17 74 17
79 18 76 18
81 19 77 19
83 20 79 20
85 21 81 21
86 22 83 22
88 23 85 23
90 24 86 24
91 25 88 25
93 26 89 26
94 27 91 27
96 28 93 28
98 29 94 29
99 30 96 30
101 31 97 31
103 32 99 32
105 33 101 33
107 34 102 34
109 35 104 35
111 36 105 36
113 37 107 37
115 38 109 38
117 39 110 39
119 40 112 40
122 41 113 41
124 42 115 42
127 43 117 43
130 44 118 44
133 45 120 45
136 46 121 46
139 47 123 47
143 48 125 48
148 49 126 49
153 50 128 50
161 51 129 51
187 50 131 52
195 49 133 53
200 48 134 54
205 47 136 55
209 46 137 56
212 45 139 57
215 44 141 58
218 43 143 59
221 42 144 60
224 41 146 61
226 40 148 62
229 39 150 63
231 38 151 64
233 37 153 65
235 36 155 66
237 35 157 67
239 34 159 68
241 33 161 69
243 32 163 70
245 31 166 71
247 30 168 72
249 29 171 73
250 28 173 74
252 27 176 75
254 26 179 76
255 25 182 77
257 24 185 78
258 23 189 79
260 22 194 80
262 21 199 81
263 20 231 80
265 19 237 79
267 18 242 78
269 17 247 77
271 16 251 76
273 15 254 75
275 14 257 74
277 13 260 73
279 12 263 72
282 11 265 71
284 10 268 70
287 9 270 69
289 8 273 68
292 7 275 67
295 6 277 66
298 5 279 65
302 4 281 64
306 3 283 63
310 2 285 62
316 1 286 61
324 0 288 60
290 59
292 58
293 57
295 56
297 55
298 54
300 53
301 52
303 51
305 50
306 49
308 48
309 47
311 46
313 45
314 44
316 43
317 42
319 41
321 40
322 39
324 38
325 37
327 36
329 35
330 34
332 33
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335 31
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364 14
367 13
369 12
371 11
374 10
376 9
379 8
382 7
385 6
388 5
392 4
396 3
401 2
407 1
416 0

I wasted my whole Saturday working on this. Every platform has different speeds, depending on how far it moves. The only thing they have in common is one section that has some variation of 1/2-1-1/2-1/2-1 for the speed, repeated. That's the only thing they have in common - the acceleration and deceleration appear to be unique for each, which suggests there's an actual algorithm in use.

[Inccubus]

I'd love to help on that, but I have the same sorts of issues with my megaman engine. Apparently I suck at extrapolating a formula from the solution. If anyone else is good at that I'd appreciate some help with similar things.