Topic: Castlevania : The Complete Choronicles ????

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

at the end of the conversation, we still have to admit that Castlevania doesn't sell like Mario.

There are ALOT of games that do not sell like Mario...

[shelverton.]

No, one shouldn't compare sales of the past with the multi billion dollar industry of today. But when talking about the original Castlevania, I am comparing it to the NES games of the 80's and 90's, and guess what? It. Still. Did. Not. Crack. Top 50. HUGE franchises did.

But enough. None of us have any real proof of anything. I am referring to wikipedia, ign and gametrailers. Maybe they're wrong, dunno.

[Successor The Cruel]

Maybe you were doing that, but you were also doing this:

The fact is that Lords of Shadow has already (probably) outsold all the classic Castlevanias from the 80's and 90's. Of course, it has the benefit of being released on two consoles, but still.

[RichterB]

More important than any of this sales stuff is the topic's focus. I think we can agree, after the points I made earlier, that it's highly unlikely the "leaked" list was Vita-exclusive. That's good news.

(...And my final word was on cultural video game significance, not sales. Up until CV#4, sales or not, CV was near the top of the list, around or just below Mega Man level, AFTER Mario and the Big-N mainline titles. Aside from being featured in Captain N and Nintendo Power, I had young relatives at the time who nicknamed themselves after NES characters of the time including Simon Belmont, Mega Man, Little Nemo, and Bayou Billy. Castlevania was thus a part of the discussion, even if it wasn't Mario or Zelda level).

[KaZudra]

More important than any of this sales stuff is the topic's focus. I think we can agree, after the points I made earlier, that it's highly unlikely the "leaked" list was Vita-exclusive. That's good news.

 I'm damn certain there wasn't a MGS or Silent Hill Collection announced for the Vita, this list is 100% non-vita exclusive.
its probably an overall list.

[Nagumo]

I guess the only thing left to do now is hype up Tokyo Gameshow and get disappointed again.   

hypehypehype

[crisis]

Are you suggesting I should invest in some lighter fluid?

[Sonic_Reaper]

Shall we take this topic into the realm not often ventured? 

Castlevania will never be a  big seller.  It isn't marketable to a wide audience.  The series, overall, is dark and gothic.  If we take a look at what is popular, based on sales, this is never the case.  Mario, for example, is more or less a cartoon.  It will appeal to young and old alike.  It doesn't contain any graphic violence, another point in it's favor.  It is simple, easy to get into, and addictive.  Castlevania doesn't contain any of these elements, save for being addictive.  Konami knows this.  It is in the business to make money.  Games are not classified as "art", so the top selling point and purpose of any game;  is it marketable?  Look at what they tried with Dawn and Portrait.  They kiddied up the artwork, decreased the dark and Gothic tones of the storyline.  This is more or less all they were able to do, so that it could still be called Castlevania.  There isn't any way to remove the violent aspect of the games, it is tied into it's mythos after all.  Mario has created it's own mythos, one that involves magical talking mushrooms, turtles and sentient chain balls.  By this very fact alone, Castlevania will never be popular.  The vampire and monster mythos has also had a large slice of cheese associated with it, but that's just it's nature.  While Mario is bright and cheerful, it isn't necessarily cheese or dramatic, it's very light and sweet.  But that is another point in it's favor.  Whether we like the stories presented in Castlevania games or not, they just ooze cheese from every pore.  Most of the time, it's over the top and especially dramatic.

It is a difficult series to market.  Konami changed gears again with LoS.  They attempted to tie into what is popular in the western gaming front.  Unfortunately, they're just creating further confusion among the gaming audience.  Casual onlookers who were hooked with the DS installments, are not interested in a new series facelift, especially one that has become even more gothic, dramatic and darker still.  Fans who have stuck with the series between it's constant shifts and turns, are puzzled as well.  Castlevania doesn't necessarily have an identity.  It's alright to borrow from mythos, but what Castlevania has been known for, from it's roots, weren't particular strong traits to begin with.  Let's take a look, and break it down to it's simplest form.

Side scrolling action.
Cheese-tastic gothic storyline and setting, borrowing from European vampire mythos.

There's not really much to go on.  Side-scrollers are no longer popular.  Even Megaman won't pull in the numbers it used to.  It was a creation based on the limitations of the hardware, and while the GBA and DS titles maintained this tradition, it was far removed from the level based static gameplay of the originals.  As for the background mythos, it has become overused, watered down and mainstreamed to the point where people no longer take it seriously or care (ie:  Twilight, ugh).  Castlevania is no longer tied to any particular history or evolution.  It is thus, no longer marketable.  Hate to make it sound so depressing, but thus is the nature of the videogame industry, and it will become even more so as time goes on and profits become ever more important.

In an ideal world, where videogames are indeed art, an expression of an individual, an idea brought to life, Castlevania could be re-examined and brought back to life.  If I were a director, I would take it way back to it's roots.  For Konami, it's a series that doesn't seem worth the hassle.  It doesn't bring in lots of cash and isn't particularly marketable.  They are continuing to spin it in different ways, ones with the least risk, and I think HoD  is a good example of that.  Keep the development costs way down, and still sell it to the DS crowd, since it's essentially the same game, using the same assets.

My two cents.

[X]

Your two cents go a long way my friend. It's really sad when you think about it 

[KaZudra]

hmmm, sadly your two cents DON'T go far.

Have you seen the sales on New super Mario Bros.? platformers are long from dead.

Castlevania was a Megaton Giant back in the day, declaring it was never a big seller is a HUGE understatement.

The big reason Castlevania isn't selling too well is because each newer game isn't distinctively different from the other, while the 2d ones are more or less a copy of SoTn, the 3d ones tend to copy DMC or dynasty warriors.

Most of the sales also deals with Hype and advertisement.

Oh yeah, I distinctively remember HD being the top seller on XBLA for two weeks.

for the record, a new Megaman game would probably print money at this point.

[Sonic_Reaper]

hmmm, sadly your two cents DON'T go far.

Have you seen the sales on New super Mario Bros.? platformers are long from dead.

Castlevania was a Megaton Giant back in the day, declaring it was never a big seller is a HUGE understatement.

The big reason Castlevania isn't selling too well is because each newer game isn't distinctively different from the other, while the 2d ones are more or less a copy of SoTn, the 3d ones tend to copy DMC or dynasty warriors.

Most of the sales also deals with Hype and advertisement.

Oh yeah, I distinctively remember HD being the top seller on XBLA for two weeks.

for the record, a new Megaman game would probably print money at this point.

A.  Mario is a platformer yes, but ... did you ignore everything else I said?  It's Mario.  Plus, Mario has already evolved in every direction possible.  This is feasible because he's essentially a cartoonish blank slate.  Extremely marketable, open and accepted by everyone, boy, girl, young and old.  This is not the case with Castlevania.

B.  Back in the day.  Operative word here.  It's no longer a big seller due to what I already previously discussed (not keen on repeating myself), plus, thank you for adding to the list.  Yes, it's become stale as well, and Konami tried to market it in different ways (more kid friendly, anime-ish, plus more serious western style God of War).  And guess what, it didn't sell all that amazingly on both counts.  It sold back in the day because exceptions were lower, fewer options available on the market, it was a novelty at the time.  The novelty has run very, very dry, and the vampire/monster mythos has been done to death and back.  People are tried of it.  Mario can continue to evolve because essentially the Mario universe is not tied down by ANY concepts.

C.  I agree with the hype and advertisement.  But then Konami run into the problem of how to market the series.  Go back to the anime roots?  Keep it serious?  As has been seen even on these boards, LoS divided the fan base greatly, as did the previous DS installments.  Sure, they may have garnered a more casual/alternate audience, but their sales just weren't that impressive.

D.  As far as I know, the HoD numbers weren't all that impressive.  Plus, it was a budget title.

E.  Capcom recently cancelled Megaman Legends 3.  If the series really were to print money, I don't see why they would've done such a thing.

F.  Another of Konami's long struggling series, Suikoden, has apparently been recently axed, with the development team being disbanded.  Another series that struggled to find it's voice, and was simply too expensive to develop for the meager returns garnered.

[Kale]

E.  Capcom recently cancelled Megaman Legends 3.  If the series really were to print money, I don't see why they would've done such a thing.

F.  Another of Konami's long struggling series, Suikoden, has apparently been recently axed, with the development team being disbanded.  Another series that struggled to find it's voice, and was simply too expensive to develop for the meager returns garnered.

For both, they put in minimum effort and expect great returns, but since that didn't happen, they axed them. Neither of them had a great sucess before, but because they didn't want to try to make it better, despite a good popularity, they just thought, screw it.

[KaZudra]

all are justified but E:

E.  Capcom recently cancelled Megaman Legends 3.  If the series really were to print money, I don't see why they would've done such a thing.

Crapcom wants to cash in on minimalist Games, They Promised to Judge the Development of MMl3 based on the Prototype version's sales.
Guess what, Inafune leaves and capcom gets anal, they close the devroom and despite how active the fans were, they point their fingers as us, the fucking fans.
and to make matters worst, THEY DIDN'T EVEN RELEASE THE PROTOTYPE!

Capcom just cares for the money and the retarded ass people who pay for their no effort shit.

MvC3 was a $60 Beta, you now have to cash in $40 for features and Balances that should have been free updates, and a mandatory Character pack which mostly consists of Shitty Characters.

Dead Rising 2 had a $5 Demo "Arcade title"

SSFIV was a $15 Update

Dead Rising 2 off the record is just DR2 with a Different Character, $40

Devil May Cry reboots with a Half Angel Dante, who is full of generic rage, nuff said.

All DLC means to capcom is Disk Locked Content, that'll be $15 to unlock something you've already bought on disk.

There are NO planned Megeman Releases for the Next 5 years, and a few months ago announced a new Megaman explosion.

As you see from many examples, Capcom Does not Care for any of their fans, nor respect their costumers.

They knew a New Megaman would Require effort, and they just want to scam you, so it was canceled.

so, my friend, E is invalidated, but the rest I can agree on or agree to disagree.

[Sonic_Reaper]

all are justified but E:
Crapcom wants to cash in on minimalist Games, They Promised to Judge the Development of MMl3 based on the Prototype version's sales.
Guess what, Inafune leaves and capcom gets anal, they close the devroom and despite how active the fans were, they point their fingers as us, the fucking fans.
and to make matters worst, THEY DIDN'T EVEN RELEASE THE PROTOTYPE!

Capcom just cares for the money and the retarded ass people who pay for their no effort shit.

MvC3 was a $60 Beta, you now have to cash in $40 for features and Balances that should have been free updates, and a mandatory Character pack which mostly consists of Shitty Characters.

Dead Rising 2 had a $5 Demo "Arcade title"

SSFIV was a $15 Update

Dead Rising 2 off the record is just DR2 with a Different Character, $40

Devil May Cry reboots with a Half Angel Dante, who is full of generic rage, nuff said.

All DLC means to capcom is Disk Locked Content, that'll be $15 to unlock something you've already bought on disk.

There are NO planned Megeman Releases for the Next 5 years, and a few months ago announced a new Megaman explosion.

As you see from many examples, Capcom Does not Care for any of their fans, nor respect their costumers.

They knew a New Megaman would Require effort, and they just want to scam you, so it was canceled.

so, my friend, E is invalidated, but the rest I can agree on or agree to disagree.

Boohoo.  Capcom doesn't owe anyone anything.  As I stated before, videogames are business.  Regardless of how anyone feels, company's are not going to put in rediculous effort on a product that returns mediocre sales.  It just doesn't make any business sense.  Yes, there was interest in Legends 3, but it was from a small dedicated crowd.  In the gaming world, even sales in the 100-200k range are considered WEAK.  Legends, as a series, never sold large amounts to begin with.  The DS Castlevania games are in the same range, midle 400-500k range.  It's considered a profit, but not by a huge margin.  Unfortunately, that's what game companies want, a large margin.  We're talking high 800-900k range.  Take this into consideration, even with well over 2 million sales, FFXIII wasn't considered a success.  The first Xenosaga, by Namco, made it to Greatest Hits, that's at least 400k, and the series was never resolved, regardless!

Describing Capcom, the same can apply to HoD.  But it's a catch 22.  We don't support the laziness, we don't see anymore Castlevania.  If we do, we see more Castlevania, but simply more lazy rehashes.  Again, these game companies don't owe us anything.  But that has more to do with the industry needing an attitude change than anything.  But again, business is business.  These companies are in it to make money, not to please a (to their standards) small hardcore crowd.

I don't see how that invalidates my points.  If anything, it merely cements it.  If even the most marketable series that have been around since the 80's are no longer doing well, or a company has to scrape by with minimal effort to churn a profit, well, that just means something's gotta give in the gaming industry, and isn't necessarily the fault of a company.  Game company's do not have consciousness, they merely function on a profit basis.

[KaZudra]

Boohoo.  Capcom doesn't owe anyone anything.  As I stated before, videogames are business.  Regardless of how anyone feels, company's are not going to put in rediculous effort on a product that returns mediocre sales.  It just doesn't make any business sense.  Yes, there was interest in Legends 3, but it was from a small dedicated crowd.  In the gaming world, even sales in the 100-200k range are considered WEAK.  Legends, as a series, never sold large amounts to begin with.  The DS Castlevania games are in the same range, midle 400-500k range.  It's considered a profit, but not by a huge margin.  Unfortunately, that's what game companies want, a large margin.  We're talking high 800-900k range.  Take this into consideration, even with well over 2 million sales, FFXIII wasn't considered a success.  The first Xenosaga, by Namco, made it to Greatest Hits, that's at least 400k, and the series was never resolved, regardless!

Describing Capcom, the same can apply to HoD.  But it's a catch 22.  We don't support the laziness, we don't see anymore Castlevania.  If we do, we see more Castlevania, but simply more lazy rehashes.  Again, these game companies don't owe us anything.  But that has more to do with the industry needing an attitude change than anything.  But again, business is business.  These companies are in it to make money, not to please a (to their standards) small hardcore crowd.

I don't see how that invalidates my points.  If anything, it merely cements it.  If even the most marketable series that have been around since the 80's are no longer doing well, or a company has to scrape by with minimal effort to churn a profit, well, that just means something's gotta give in the gaming industry, and isn't necessarily the fault of a company.  Game company's do not have consciousness, they merely function on a profit basis.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*breathes* AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!

yeah, the game companies don't owe thier costumers anything, that's by far, the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

No Customers = No Money, No Money = Bye Bye.

Don't Act like they'll be giants no matter what, because when it comes to the nitty gritty, the consumers are Paying them.
Piss off the consumers enough and you'll be in trouble.

Sure HD was Lazy, but it was a new concept for the franchise, I don't think it was even intended to sell well.

but its not laziness when it comes to capcom, its Scamming, flatout lying to your face, I don't see why you're gonna defend Corporate thieves.