Topic: Who is the Better Dracula?

[Flame]

but we dont FEEL his pain at all when we havent seen him in the whole game. we only get told of what happened to him and with wife, but we havent gotten to know the character at all enough to actually care or acknowledge his motivations. he pops out of nowhere, explains this master plan he had, and why, and thats all.

Gabe's descent into darkness however, takes place over the course of the whole game. You play as him, you ARE him, and you follow him, as he starts off as a still-in-mourning widowed knight committed to his duty,and ending on the edge of a cliff in what might as well be hell, feeling alone, cheated, doubting his own self and motivations, and God. He sees himself as a dark being, a killer, and unsure of what to do with himself now that his mission has ended, leaving him nothing but bitterness. Then we see how he has no choice in his transformation, and goes through with it, having nothing to lose, the change eventually stripping him of whatever remaining traces of humanity and "light" were left in him, plunging him into complete darkness.

we (or at least I) feel him far more than Mathias.

Mathias is rather more of an anime style story for it. It makes sense in an Anime or game, but realistically, doesnt hold up as well.

[Puwexil]

Man if you think the character of Gabriel is depicted anywhere even close to realistically I just don't know what to tell you.

Also, it's a story fit for a video game because it is a video game. One of the (myriad of) problems with Lords' storytelling is that it thinks way, way too much of itself. Just, good lord, the narrations. They never stop spouting exposition and telling us or the characters how to feel rather than actually accomplishing it in the game. Mathias is introduced and set up in the prologue credits roll of his game, allowed some minutes of solid screen time, and that is it. Your mileage may vary how effective that is for a villain but at the very least he's not overplayed or desperately characterized.

[Flame]

It still stands though that Gabriel just gets much more exposition than Mathias. It would be nice if we saw some of Mathias before the whole issue.

i dont know. I just feel that mathias is just very empty feeling because we dont really KNOW the character. he just pops up a villain without us ever getting to know how he was prior. theres just no merit to it IMO.

[thernz]

Considering everything he did, it would be all right to assume that Matthias was always a bit of a psychotic jerk. And when we're dealing with genocidal demon lords like Dracula, insanity fits the bill.

I'm also assuming out of my ass, because he was an educated elite tactician who secretly knows alchemy. Which just seems like the most snob.

[Inccubus]

@Flame: Yup. He stabs the cross and it bleeds all over place. He drinks it saying something about the blood is the life and he will defy god by never dying.

[paulstanley]

I'm not sure why the concept of despair is so hard to grasp (since we want things to hold up realistically here). People in despair think up the quickest way to end their despair, instead of facing it. It's pretty believable that, in a magical/fantastic/whatever world like Castlevania's, someone would not deign to do what Mathias did when faced with despair. At least, if they had knowledge of such things, which Mathias did.

If it's not obvious enough already, I prefer Mathias. I can't feel anything for Gabriel, let alone sympathy.

[Inccubus]

I have to agree, the way they wrote his turn to evil reads like a b-movie plot twist.
I mean really. He goes through all this crap, and still has enough of a heroic heart to try to save the world one more time sacrificing his humanity for it, and then all of a sudden he's like 'fuck it all, I'm evil now'. That's pretty lame.

[Flame]

he didnt fight the Forgotten one to save the world. He didnt give a shit. He did it because Laura asked him to and he owed her his life. He wasnt concerned with the world's problems after what he went through. And having his humanity sapped out of him made him a complete monster.

Even in the original IGAvania, becoming a vampire changes you on a psychological level. Rinaldo's daughter slaughtered her family when she turned.

Gabriel lost what was remaining of his humanity.

[Renonsgoods]

We're still arguing over which character made for a better Dracula origin story...which, is a discussion for the other thread.  This should be about who makes a better Dracula.  I'll go with Gabe.  After witnessing his final clash with TFO, I'd want no part of that mofo. Going off of the two origin stories alone (without taking later episodes into account), I'd have to say that Gabe presents the better chance for giving way to a badass Dracula.  Mathias, on the other hand, better represents the Drac that likes to dress up nice and sip goblets of blood while waiting for the local hero to come up and kick his ass.

Personally though, I prefer Bram Stokers Drac better than both (NOT the Francis Ford Coppola one).  He was just an evil, demonic monster out for the kill.  He didn't sit around in a dusty old castle letting his minions do his bidding.

[thernz]

Well, he accepted Laura's request after she told him the consequences of a freed Forgotten One and how heavy his conscience would be. So he probably cared a tad at least. Without ever getting Laura's blood, he would probably just mope around. And in the end despite all the betrayal he faced, he still accepted that daunting task. Considering his personality didn't change much at the time of Reverie (beyond moping more, but he always does that anyway), the vampire blood is the only real catalyst to him becoming evil. The fact that he only turned evil because of vampire blood is just lame. It's like if Rinaldo's daughter was Dracula instead.

Who wants such a reluctant villain?  You need strong characters for both the protagonists and antagonists. Even if Gabriel Dracula turns out to be pure evil, his ambitions are fabricated. When the antagonist is only evil out of circumstance, like having to take Laura's blood to beat up the Forgotten One, than the actions of his inherent personality and social traits, it doesn't build much tension.

Matthias at least gets his resources from his social background, and hints of his manipulative nature from his career as a tactician. It's pretty basic but it's there. Gabriel's personality just doesn't fit and even seems schizophrenic at times. It just simply never builds to an ambitious person that could take the mantle of KAMEN RIDER KIVA, KING OF VAMPIRE.

[Renonsgoods]

That's just it though.  Mathias really doesn't change course all that much internally because of his wife's death.  He just tweaks who it is that he's setting his target sights on (in this case, God).  Gabriel's transformation into a dark lord is the result of an emotional/mental fracture with his former, good natured self.  Make no mistake, the kind of apathy/rage he feels after jumping through all of Zobek's flaming hoops (and STILL losing his wife) is exactly the kind of mindset that will turn a good man into a cold blooded recluse.  

While I'll agree that an ingenius Drac makes for a good storybook villain....a deranged one makes for a better monster.  Mathias' Drac is more likely to send out his minions to take care of his enemies..........Gabe is more likely to swoop down out of the night and rip the life from his victims himself.  And we have yet to see what follows the events of Resurrection. So while Gabe is still just an apathetic, brooding individual at this time (and a VERY powerful at that)....future events could easily push him into something more terrifying.  Time (and the forthcoming sequel) will tell.

[darkwzrd4]

That's just it though.  Mathias really doesn't change course all that much internally because of his wife's death.  He just tweaks who it is that he's setting his target sights on (in this case, God).  Gabriel's transformation into a dark lord is the result of an emotional/mental fracture with his former, good natured self.  Make no mistake, the kind of apathy/rage he feels after jumping through all of Zobek's flaming hoops (and STILL losing his wife) is exactly the kind of mindset that will turn a good man into a cold blooded recluse. 

While I'll agree that an ingenius Drac makes for a good storybook villain....a deranged one makes for a better monster.  Mathias' Drac is more likely to send out his minions to take care of his enemies..........Gabe is more likely to swoop down out of the night and rip the life from his victims himself.  And we have yet to see what follows the events of Resurrection. So while Gabe is still just an apathetic, brooding individual at this time (and a VERY powerful at that)....future events could easily push him into something more terrifying.  Time (and the forthcoming sequel) will tell.

I agree with this to a point.  Mathias would merely have his minions do his dirty work while he just sits on his throne.  Plus, he fits like a pansy.  Teleport then fireball then teleport again.  It's the same thing over and over.  It's entirely predictable.
Gabriel on the other hand, would likely fight on the frontlines.  Plus, he wouldn't rely on the same old predictable routine.  He would actually fight hand to hand as well as use magic.
Gameplaywise, A battle with Gabriel would be a lot more labor intensive, epic, and enjoyable experience.  Definitely something to look forward to in the sequel assuming we don't play as him.

[Flame]

IGA Belmonts probably have a mock up throne room built in the family house where they train. XD

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the boomerang Cross at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."

[darkwzrd4]

IGA Belmonts probably have a mock up throne room built in the family house where they train. XD

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the boomerang Cross at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."

lmao

[Inccubus]

I feel the need for a small edit:

"Ok son, after he finishes his monologue, he will teleport over to that side of the room. That's when you throw the [tire iron] at his head. Then make sure to duck his fireball, and wait for him to teleport to your side of the room, where you whip him until he fires another fireball. You duck that, and he teleports back to the other side..."

Back on topic:
So it basically sounds to me that if you combine Mathias & Gabriel you get pretty close to Bram Stoker's original.