Topic: best snes games

[Sinful]

http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/comparisons%20-%20differing.html

Enjoy them blocky pixels my boy.

[Abnormal Freak]

Dithering wasn't even designed specifically for blending. Did some Genesis developers use it for such? Sure. But seeing dithering as it was drawn, pixel for pixel, isn't a bad thing. :p So I will enjoy those blocky pixels, especially since I don't have to deal with rainbow banding.

Here's a pretty interesting thread that shows examples of what I mean.

I like that shot of Space Quest 6 a lot:



VGA game. Dithering. Never was intended to be seen through a composite cable.



Yay, rainbow banding!

[Sinful]

Wow, Abnormal Freak, you really have shitty luck it seems? Because I've never ever experienced them shitty rainbow effects in my life. My Genesis games with that connection look perfect. Even games designed not to take advantage of the pixel blending looked much better to me. If I couldn't experience Genesis graphics this way, I'd lose my mind... But you seem to be fine with it, so good for you.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Those effects have been there.  I don't know how you missed 'em.
I have a Genesis3 (the crappiest one, I know) but I play using Genesis Plus on my Wii.

You can argue that it makes the graphics more 'endearing', if you will... but down in the core it's the game programmers overcoming a console's limitation by using it in a positive manner.  However, the screens look better without it.

My clouds are transparent on Genesis3 and with little checkerboarded dot holes in the emulator (however, I can disable that end emulate the S-Video as Abnormal Freak said, so now that's an OPTION rather than something I'm stuck with, so sometimes I turn 'em on if I'm feeling 80's/90's nostalgic).

It's funny, this exact problem is the reason people (in general) have a dislike for the Saturn version of Symphony of the Night.
Because they play the game as an ISO on an emulator, a lot of the 'blended effects' (exactly what you just described) looked like checkerpatterned-holed issues in an emulator with a good screen.
I have played the game both emulated (Crisper, but it has an odd resolution and the effects are very rough-looking) and on the actual Saturn hardware (blurrier but now it resembles the PSX version a helluvalot more).

I'll take the blocky pixels and the smoothed ones.  I can because I have wonderful emulation filters like Freak does (we both have modded Wiis).

[Abnormal Freak]

I don't use the S-Video filter on Genesis Plus, just have the Wii hooked up with S-Video.

I did bust out the Genesis (model 1) and compare two games with Gen+. The composite filter gives a good approximation of the blending. In ways it's not as good, but in other ways it's better because the colors are richer and black levels more solid due to the S-Video cable (and the blending didn't look much different when I hooked my Wii with composite, just lower quality). So if I ever have need to see the Genesis blending, I can switch that on and still keep my clunky Genesis in the closet. :p

Anyway, rainbow banding has always been there. The Genesis is known for its horrid composite output and all models are affected. It's possible a model 2 Gen handles things better than a model 1 if you have a model 2. I don't know firsthand since I've never had a model 2.

I got pics of my "experiment" mentioned above. I'll post them later; I'm on my phone 'cos my Internet's out.

By the way, the Sega Nomad doesn't have color blending. Also, the first two Genesis models were designed to be RGB/SCART-ready out of the box. If the system was never intended to be seen with sharp graphics, Sega wouldn't have built in the option. Note how the A/V port has all those extra holes...

[Abnormal Freak]

Woo, here we go! ;)


Genesis Plus, composite filter



Genesis Plus, no filter



Genesis Plus, no filter



Genesis Plus, composite filter



Genesis model 1



Nomad



Now, these cellphone pics aren't the most representative of detail and color, but you can see enough at least that the Genesis Plus with composite filter has some pretty good blending and also deeper colors. It doesn't blend perfectly, but it has less "splotchy" spots than the Genesis. And you can see dithering even on the Genesis at parts, especially on a game like Earthworm Jim where there's so freaking much of it.

I will say that color blending on the Genesis gives it a special charm in that you see the artistry a bit better. As I said above, dithering wasn't designed with blending in mind, it's just a shading effect and plenty of PC VGA games used dithering extensively—both line and checkerboard dithering; but it was obviously intended to be blended on the Genesis, so I may very well play the Genesis Plus emulator with the composite filter from time to time, just because it's a good approximation and I still get the added color dynamic and clarity of an S-Video cable. ;) So it still kicks the pants off an original Genesis.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I admit that, though I have a Genesis(3), I do most of my Genesis gaming on my Wii.

[Abnormal Freak]

Can't blame ya. The Genesis 3 has even shittier video than the first two models. :p

[TheouAegis]

I love my Saturn. Yamaha soundchip all the way, baby!

[Sinful]

Hmm, my eyes might need checking as I don't recall seeing crazy rainbow effects like those when playing my Genesis game on a TV (or dragging emulation of monitor to TV). But I have been playing mostly on emulator & monitor only recently until I move to a better place and unpack my gaming collection.

For emulation, I usually use Kega Fusion, with the blurriest composite setting on, lol. Plus 25% scanline to help reduce the blurring a tad, and "brighten monitor" feature to help counteract the darkened screen a bit from the 25% scanline. And the fact that my face is at least 6 feet away from my monitor helps too (I lay on a long couch lengthwise at all time in front of my monitor at the end of the couch past my feet on a table). But the best way to go for emulating the TV + even better still is the "Blargg's NTSC Filter"  filter for a Gens emulator. You got many things at your control (can set it for composite, S-Video, RGB, plus mess around with setting to have a combination of all these 3 types or whatever). With this one, I usually go for the RGB setting with more colour blend (about 25% or more). So yeah, just get this plugging and put it in the pluggin folder... only problem with this emu, and one reason why I don't use it much is because I can't always keep fullscreen mode in it's normal aspect ratio mode. ie. for Bloodlines it'll be fine until it's gets to the character select screen & during gameplay, as this is when the game's resolution mode switches higher or lower (haven't checked which one) and the screen goes widescreen. Lame. And I can't stand playing in windowed mode.

For Sega Saturn via SSF emulator, there is an option to turn dithered graphics into transparency (for both 2D & 3D). So Saturn SotN fans rejoice (though it's still not as good as PS1 transparency)...but the funny thing is that for some reason I usually don't mind dithered graphics for Saturn gaming, and actually usually prefer it. Strange that I can't stand it for Genesis games but don't mind it for Saturn games.

Can't blame ya. The Genesis 3 has even shittier video than the first two models. :p

Hey, Abnormal Freak, can you compare which Genesis emulator has better sound emulation between Kega Fusion and one of the Gens emulator? Because I find the Gens emulators to sound kinda weird. Especially for Bloodlines.

I love my Saturn. Yamaha soundchip all the way, baby!

Yeah, I'm a Saturn fan too. Too bad that system didn't last... or at least the Dreamcast didn't cut it's life short... Dreamcast era, even though I had that too, was when my interest in gaming died and went in hibernation for quite some time until recently. Took a bit to get back into gaming too. But maybe because the Saturn was there during the lat of my best gaming days is why I cherish that system so much? ... Course I had a Playstation as well, but I was never really too fond of that systems exclusive titles for the most part. ... though now I'm able to find some really good games of interest to me for it too. For me, the games of most interest to me are from the 8-bit era to the 32-Bit era. So I always play games for any one of these systems during these periods... but when I'm in the mood for Sega and/or playing a Sega console like Genesis and Saturn with a great game for it, there really isn't a better gaming feeling for me. Really hard to explain in few words... or any words? But if you can relate with another system, then that's awesome.

[Sinful]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. @Abnormal Freak; not all dithered graphics were meant to blend. So yeah, some were intentionally meant to look dithered (ie. if there is too much space between two pixels, or resolution is too low in either the vertical of horizontal = to much space between pixels, the two pixels won't blend).

[shelverton.]

Meanwhile, in SNES land, I've been playing a bit of Sunset Riders lately. I dunno why I love that game so much. It's part nostalgia but I'd also argue that it IS a pretty fun game.

But since we're talking Genesis here I'll just say that I adore both Landstalker, Shining Force and Shining Force 2. Oh, and Phantasy Star 4, in case people couldn't already tell. I'm still looking for a SRPG that plays like Shining Force but I'm always a bit let down. I finished Jeanne D'Arc on the PSP lately and it was alright, but what made the early Shining Force games so great was that you did more than just fight. I like exploring towns and stuff, but those days are probably gone. (Yes, I'm looking at you Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics and so on.) You never get to explore anymore. It's all menus and cutscenes. 

[Abnormal Freak]

Sunset Riders is fun, and Konami sure had a way of translating their arcade games to console which IMO is a lot more impressive than how Capcom ever did it.

Just wish the implied whore-bangin' were left intact.

Sinful: I guess I wouldn't exactly know which would sound accurate, but Genesis Plus has multiple audio options, including two "core" sound systems.

[VladCT]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but both Gundam and fighting game fans should check this out:
GWED online match
I dare say this is one of the best fighting games on the SNES.

[Ratty]

Well this thread makes me feel a lot less bad about just using RCA instead of springing for a SCART-to-Component converter for my Genesis lol. Also in that thread Abnormal Freak linked to

Man I forgot about this clone, I wish I could play it. It looks so cool in an unbelievably cheesy sort of way.

Also VladCT have you played any of the semi-sequels? I've got Battle Assault 2 and it's a fairly solid 2D fighter for the PS1, not a stitch on Darkstalkers 3 but then no fighting game is. It has a nicely varied roster from across several Gundam series though. The English Gundam Wing cast even provides voice clips, though unfortunately (imo) all of the GW mechs are the Endless Waltz versions. So no Tallgeese 1