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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Classic Castlevania Threads => Topic started by: suomynona on March 14, 2017, 05:17:12 AM

Title: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 14, 2017, 05:17:12 AM
Who is your Favourite Non-Belmont (If they have Belmont last name. Morris is fine)character?

For me, I should definitely say Soma Cruz. He's such badass (only in AoS) and epic. His story is kinda likeable (Again, only for AoS)

Second would be Eric Lecarde cuz I had blast of Bloodlines (a only corrcet representation of him). He was a badass dude with badass spear doing badass thing and kicking badass out of the monsters... Until IGA decided to ruin him.

I considered Symphony Maria cuz she again is badass (SotN only!).
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dracula9 on March 14, 2017, 05:24:09 AM
Schmoo.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 14, 2017, 05:47:44 AM
Shanoa, hands down. Delicate yet piercing beauty with a stoic and hardened resolve, like the rose that grew from the concrete.

My second favourite would be Joachim, his ending is kick arse, his fighting style is original and his mode is actually quite different.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 14, 2017, 06:00:34 AM
Shanoa, hands down. Delicate yet piercing beauty with a stoic and hardened resolve, like the rose that grew from the concrete.

My second favourite would be Joachim, his ending is kick arse, his fighting style is original and his mode is actually quite different.

Shanoa is quite cool, though I prefer badass characters who wrecks anything that confronts them.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 14, 2017, 06:56:56 AM
Shanoa is quite cool, though I prefer badass characters who wrecks anything that confronts them.

Destroying Dracula with his own power isn't badass enough??
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 14, 2017, 07:39:40 AM
Destroying Dracula with his own power isn't badass enough??

Yeah, but what I mean of badass is like having badass theme, weapon, look, quotes and quality action (Like AoS Julius, Soma and Bloodlines Eric). Shanoa is cool, but not much of a badass I should say.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: X on March 14, 2017, 10:30:23 AM
I have very, very few likeable non-Belmont characters. But I'd have to give it to Shanoa. Though she's a non-Belmont character, she is definitely strong in her own way. That and her story arc is interesting.

John Morris is also a fave for a Non-Belmont. The guy's built like a truck and has that Simon Belmont badassery going for him. The Victorian era never shook more fiercely without him.

A third likeable mention is Nathan Graves. Though another non-Belmont he is also a character I liked. And In my humble opinion, is every bit a Belmont as the rest.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Briraka on March 14, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
I'm surprised no one said Alucard yet.

So I'mma say Alucard. He's probably the most versatile character I've seen in a videogame being able to use all sorts of abilities thanks to him by being half vampire and half human.

Yeah, but what I mean of badass is like having badass theme, weapon, look, quotes and quality action (Like AoS Julius, Soma and Bloodlines Eric). Shanoa is cool, but not much of a badass I should say.
Never played Order of Ecclesia, but from what I've seen of Shanoa, I think she's badass looking.

But I digress however, because I feel that a characters actions are what make them a badass. Everything else, such as cool looks, weapons, quotes, and theme songs are purely bonuses to an already badass character.

Although, if that's what you meant by "quality action" then I guess that I agree?
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on March 15, 2017, 01:21:36 AM
Alucard.
~Fan girl since '97  ;D

I like Soma too.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Zuljaras on March 15, 2017, 02:39:05 AM
Alucard and Hector. Both have cool abilities.

Alucard because he somehow reminds me of Vampire Hunter D. I think that in the future he will really look like "D" and behave like him.

Hector because he was part of Dracula's elite but wanted to quit because hes fed up with killing. Went back for revenge kind of like John Wick (because of love).
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 15, 2017, 03:25:10 AM
Hector because he was part of Dracula's elite but wanted to quit because hes fed up with killing. Went back for revenge kind of like John Wick (because of love).

I thought the way Hector hooked up with Julia was pretty badass. #stayclassy
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Ratty on March 15, 2017, 04:33:39 AM
Dracula, Medusa, various wolfmen and Frankensteins... oh you meant protagonists.

Probably Sypha. Or Cornell because I'm a sucker for werewolves and Legacy of Darkness is one of my favorite games. Reinhardt, Carrie and Nathan Graves are pretty cool to.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 15, 2017, 05:14:05 AM
Dracula, Medusa, various wolfmen and Frankensteins... oh you meant protagonists.

Probably Sypha. Or Cornell because I'm a sucker for werewolves and Legacy of Darkness is one of my favorite games. Reinhardt, Carrie and Nathan Graves are pretty cool to.

WHICH SYPHA? (That's very important 2 me).
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: BLOOD MONKEY on March 15, 2017, 02:18:55 PM
Alucard. Probably nostalgia clouding my vision, but I don't care. Alucard is such a badass.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 15, 2017, 04:42:58 PM
Probably Sypha. Or Cornell because I'm a sucker for werewolves and Legacy of Darkness is one of my favorite games. Reinhardt, Carrie and Nathan Graves are pretty cool to.

If we're going outside the main timeline, I also dig Cornell.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Ratty on March 15, 2017, 09:52:24 PM
WHICH SYPHA? (That's very important 2 me).

Castlevania 3. I've not played Judgement or the Pachislot games.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 15, 2017, 11:14:43 PM
Castlevania 3. I've not played Judgement or the Pachislot games.

Good lad. Good to hear that:)
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: theplottwist on March 15, 2017, 11:21:29 PM
Castlevania 3. I've not played Judgement or the Pachislot games.

It's funny how people don't even remember LoS has a Sypha too :P
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 17, 2017, 03:17:13 AM
Alucard, without a doubt (huge fangirl for about the last 15 years, it was he who was my introducion to Castlevania).  Then again, if I look at LoS, Alucard is a Belmont, so for the purposes of favourite non-Belmont, I'll just consider the original timeline Allie.  After him, I'm also a big fan of Soma and Joachim, who I'd have loved to have seen a return of.  For background small but very important characters, I think that Lisa is a very powerful character in her own right.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: aensland on March 17, 2017, 08:53:38 PM
Isaac x Hector, I mean, Isaac and Hector, their interactions in CoD were great
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Crying Freeman on March 18, 2017, 08:20:11 PM
If nonplayables count I fucking love Rinaldo. Shopkeepers of the series were always just conveniently there and one dimensional (especially in HOD... like what was he doing there XD) but Rinaldo had a story and reason to be there. He even had stuff to do in the plot, like making the Vampire Killer what it is. You could sympathize with him and he was a really chill guy, voiced by the awesome Michael Mconahie. The music for his cabin is also just... so chill. The combination of all these things made Rinaldo way cooler and more memorable than other side characters.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 19, 2017, 12:11:18 AM
If nonplayables count I fucking love Rinaldo. Shopkeepers of the series were always just conveniently there and one dimensional (especially in HOD... like what was he doing there XD) but Rinaldo had a story and reason to be there. He even had stuff to do in the plot, like making the Vampire Killer what it is. You could sympathize with him and he was a really chill guy, voiced by the awesome Michael Mconahie. The music for his cabin is also just... so chill. The combination of all these things made Rinaldo way cooler and more memorable than other side characters.

For shopkeepers I would go for AoS Hammer for his badassness. Otherwise Master Librarian.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on March 19, 2017, 03:23:57 AM
I like Hammer as a shopkeeper too. Especially when he starts blushing/chasing after Yoko.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 19, 2017, 03:31:08 AM
I like Hammer as a shopkeeper too. Especially when he starts blushing/chasing after Yoko.

U mean DoS Hammer? Srsly? Cuz only time Hammer saying anything about Yoko in AoS is "She's kinda my style".
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on March 19, 2017, 03:37:34 AM
U mean DoS Hammer? Srsly? Cuz only time Hammer saying anything about Yoko in AoS is "She's kinda my style".

Well, Hammer across the Sorrow series (2 games and that novel).
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 19, 2017, 06:05:32 AM
I love Yoko as a character.  While she's not my favourite non-Belmont character, she is right up there on the list of great characters for me.  Hammer's chasing of Yoko is amusing.  I've always seen her as more the sort to have at least at some point crushed on Alucard.  I wouldn't be surprised if Yoko teases him as much as she does Soma.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 19, 2017, 06:51:14 AM
I love Yoko as a character.  While she's not my favourite non-Belmont character, she is right up there on the list of great characters for me.  Hammer's chasing of Yoko is amusing.  I've always seen her as more the sort to have at least at some point crushed on Alucard.  I wouldn't be surprised if Yoko teases him as much as she does Soma.

I kinda like Yoko (actually more then Sypha but not as much as SotN Maria) in DoS. Few thing DoS actually did better (becuase what Yoko do in AoS is talk a little and get stabbed).

Oh yeah, a bit of trivia. In Japanese DoS manual, in the character profile page, at first page, you would expect Soma/Arikado/Julius or Celia, (considering Mina's role gradually shrank from AoS as a save point and good-as-noting with the internet but still hint giver to barely appear but to give such cliche plot twist at the gardens) but no. Soma/Mina/Yoko. Don't know why they left Celia at second page, cuz that will be "Better".
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 19, 2017, 06:59:49 AM
Hammer's chasing of Yoko is amusing.

#dropthehammer
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 19, 2017, 08:01:01 AM
The amusement to me is more that Hammer just seems so utterly clueless at just how little chance he has with Yoko, and the way that she brushes him off.  Yeah, he really should get the hint, but it's Hammer, he's not exactly subtle. 
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: theplottwist on March 19, 2017, 01:11:30 PM
I have too many favorites. But I'll speak of one: Death.

Death is written in such a way that makes his villany so charismatic. I love how matter-of-factly he is and how he doesn't leave room for dubiousness. And of course, the fact he's willing to go to very far lengths to see Dracula revived. If Death were a real person, he'd be Castlevania's #1 fanboy.

It's a shame we don't get to see more of Dracula's interaction with Death. I wonder what their conversations are like.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Spooniest on March 19, 2017, 01:31:49 PM
John Morris. His name is one toothpick move away from being mine, and he is related to Quincy Morris from Bram Stoker's Dracula.

He can swing from any ceiling with the vampire killer. :D Kind of a rough fellow, who has perhaps not lived as a man should ^_^
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Aceearly1993 on March 19, 2017, 10:04:03 PM
Shaft. The metal voice in SotN, his standing pose, how he managed to survive RoB events as ghost/spirit form and all. So badass.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on March 19, 2017, 11:11:21 PM
I have too many favorites. But I'll speak of one: Death.

Death is written in such a way that makes his villany so charismatic. I love how matter-of-factly he is and how he doesn't leave room for dubiousness. And of course, the fact he's willing to go to very far lengths to see Dracula revived. If Death were a real person, he'd be Castlevania's #1 fanboy.

It's a shame we don't get to see more of Dracula's interaction with Death. I wonder what their conversations are like.

True. Death is an amazing character.
Drac and Death's interaction would be good fanfiction fodder.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 19, 2017, 11:31:09 PM
True. Death is an amazing character.
Drac and Death's interaction would be good fanfiction fodder.

Death got all points off when he stripped off Alucard's stuff. Graham is by far the best non-Dracula CV villain.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on March 19, 2017, 11:39:32 PM
Death got all points off when he stripped off Alucard's stuff. Graham is by far the best non-Dracula CV villain.

Nah, I always just treat that scene as "non-explanatory needed gameplay" stuff that has nothing to do with Death as a character.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 19, 2017, 11:49:29 PM
Nah, I always just treat that scene as "non-explanatory needed gameplay" stuff that has nothing to do with Death as a character.

But this felt like teasing me with stripping away the game changer. It would be better if Alucard didn't have it to start with like it was left in the castle when Alucard rebelled against his father. Then him regaining the items would be much fluent story.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 19, 2017, 11:56:50 PM
Nah, I always just treat that scene as "non-explanatory needed gameplay" stuff that has nothing to do with Death as a character.

Agreed, it was to give the player a taste of how the game was later on (old or new to CV), because if Alucard had fists and nothing else people would've gone "What the hell is this game?".

Too bad Death got owned and didn't strip the Crissaegrim or Heaven's sword off of Alucard. :P
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 20, 2017, 03:26:20 AM
Agreed, it was to give the player a taste of how the game was later on (old or new to CV), because if Alucard had fists and nothing else people would've gone "What the hell is this game?".

I'd say they should have given some kind of shortsword to start with. Jonathan had now-worthless VK to start with, Juste and Nathan has same weapon all along and Soma had the knife when he started. It would be like Soma had Clamih Solais or some kind of 'Katana gifted by Mina' to start with and now he has bare hand. That's just teasing in my opinion. Something like finishing Ghost and Goblins first run and now you have to do that all over again.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 20, 2017, 04:23:47 AM
I'd say they should have given some kind of shortsword to start with. Jonathan had now-worthless VK to start with, Juste and Nathan has same weapon all along and Soma had the knife when he started. It would be like Soma had Clamih Solais or some kind of 'Katana gifted by Mina' to start with and now he has bare hand. That's just teasing in my opinion. Something like finishing Ghost and Goblins first run and now you have to do that all over again.

Sotn was the first of its kind, and no fans (new or old alike) new what it was going to play like. If they introduced a game that seemed as if it played like crap, then nobody would want to play it.

Also, those are terrible comparisons, Juste and Nathan only had one primary attack/ weapon throughout their entire playthrough. Alucard sword =/= Claimh by a long shot. Jonathan had a whole array of weapons like Alucard, in POR the dormant VK is still useful for the first hour or so, particularly on the hardest setting where staying away from foes is best.

Sotn also arguably has more input based attacks than the other Igavanias, the start of the game does allow the player to discover this.

There's something else to the whole death sequence. You have to go through both castles to find the Alucard items (the first castle won't give you all of those) as well as battling Death. Did no one else on their first playthrough - without the holy goggles - think it was weird that Alucard never faced Death? I did.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 20, 2017, 05:17:08 AM
Sotn was the first of its kind, and no fans (new or old alike) new what it was going to play like. If they introduced a game that seemed as if it played like crap, then nobody would want to play it.

Also, those are terrible comparisons, Juste and Nathan only had one primary attack/ weapon throughout their entire playthrough. Alucard sword =/= Claimh by a long shot. Jonathan had a whole array of weapons like Alucard, in POR the dormant VK is still useful for the first hour or so, particularly on the hardest setting where staying away from foes is best.

Sotn also arguably has more input based attacks than the other Igavanias, the start of the game does allow the player to discover this.

There's something else to the whole death sequence. You have to go through both castles to find the Alucard items (the first castle won't give you all of those) as well as battling Death. Did no one else on their first playthrough - without the holy goggles - think it was weird that Alucard never faced Death? I did.

Sure thing. Sure thing. Then, PoR was the first game to have VK actually lose power systematically. It would make a better sense for Alucard Sword to "lose power", which doesn't even make sense in the first place then get stripped. Let's get Juste/Nathan out of the way and say about Soma. Clamih Solais IS Soma's unofficial signature weapon (Much like Crissaegrim), but for comparison, let's say that Soma has all sorts of powerful goods given from Mina, enchanted with holy powers (Forget tactical souls for second). They both are really powerful and it's give from someone who they really care about. After beating the Creaking Skull, Death himself comes and takes everything away. Now you have NOTHING and you have to rely on a mere sword and no armour. That's just plain outrageous. Good thing AoS doesn't do that, otherwise HoD would be a better Metroidvania for me (You can't strip away VK from a Belmont)

Much of weapon-changable Metroidvania is heavily input-based game. Try going through Castle Corridor until opening Hammer's shop in AoS with bare fist.

Even if Death didn't strip away Alucard's stuff, recurring fan will know about Death and he will certainly appear somewhere and even the manual says about Death himself.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 20, 2017, 01:51:01 PM
Sure thing. Sure thing. Then, PoR was the first game to have VK actually lose power systematically. It would make a better sense for Alucard Sword to "lose power", which doesn't even make sense in the first place then get stripped. Let's get Juste/Nathan out of the way and say about Soma. Clamih Solais IS Soma's unofficial signature weapon (Much like Crissaegrim), but for comparison, let's say that Soma has all sorts of powerful goods given from Mina, enchanted with holy powers (Forget tactical souls for second). They both are really powerful and it's give from someone who they really care about. After beating the Creaking Skull, Death himself comes and takes everything away. Now you have NOTHING and you have to rely on a mere sword and no armour. That's just plain outrageous. Good thing AoS doesn't do that, otherwise HoD would be a better Metroidvania for me (You can't strip away VK from a Belmont)

Much of weapon-changable Metroidvania is heavily input-based game. Try going through Castle Corridor until opening Hammer's shop in AoS with bare fist.

Even if Death didn't strip away Alucard's stuff, recurring fan will know about Death and he will certainly appear somewhere and even the manual says about Death himself.

I downvoted your post because it made no f'ing sense.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dracula9 on March 20, 2017, 01:57:56 PM
Try going through Castle Corridor until opening Hammer's shop in AoS with bare fist.

Used to do that all the time. I love naked runs of the MV titles. Really changes how you think about gameplay and combat.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Forigin.webcdn.theblackdesertonline.net%2Fforum%2Fservice_live%2Fmonthly_08_2016%2Ftumblr_static_tumblr_static_filename_640.jpg.2b74905477aad0e0b684869a4ab92fb0.jpg&hash=4cf8ac0d968f93550e6be7880927f162)
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on March 20, 2017, 02:37:16 PM
For protagonists: Hector.

Never mind that Curse of Darkness, Harmony of Dissonance and Aria of Sorrow (via the Castlevania Double Pack) were simultaneously my first ever Castlevanias. Hector actually gets a really good character arc (for an Iga game at any rate) about not letting selfish desires ruin you, letting go of past hurts, and moving on with your life. He's voiced by the superb Crispin Freeman during Freeman's golden period of voice acting, and Hector has a really cool general look. As the straight man to Isaac's crazy man, Hector is a great foil against his villain, and he got to have probably the greatest dialog interactions with Death in the series. Also his meeting with Saint Germaine is as silly and chuckle-worthy today as it was in 2005.

The only other Castlevania protags I hold with the same fondness are Soma and Shanoa, for the same Character Arc reasons. None of them are static protagonists. They all change, evolve, and grow over the course of their journeys, and emerge much different and improved people.

For villains? Walter. THAT. SEXY. ASS. VOICE.

Also he's probably the ultimate portrayal of a classic Fairy Tale villain in the series. But mostly that deep smexy baritone.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dracula9 on March 20, 2017, 02:45:57 PM
For villains? Walter. THAT. SEXY. ASS. VOICE.

Also he's probably the ultimate portrayal of a classic Fairy Tale villain in the series. But mostly that deep smexy baritone.

Don't forget being too big for his silly little chair.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dia on March 20, 2017, 03:37:41 PM
Gotta give it to Nathan, unique combat abilities and the fact that he wasn't a part of some prestigious bloodline was enough for me. Of course, Circle of the moon is my favorite, so I'm clearly biased.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 20, 2017, 05:34:12 PM
I have kinda personal feelings against CoD. Not counting that Isaac looks like he's high on drugs, Igarashi made Kojima concentrate on CoD while DoS was being made. Result is stupid anime art and art that is kinda high on a drug. Clearly LoI and AoS art is clearly superior when Kojima drew their arts simultaneously. We had to wait till 2008 till a decent CV artwork.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 21, 2017, 07:57:44 PM
I downvoted your post because it made no f'ing sense.

Well, if you think my argument makes no fucking sense, try rebutting. Downvoting and acts such means that your arguments has ran out and you admitted defeat on this debate.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dracula9 on March 21, 2017, 08:40:09 PM
Or you could just quit starting shit with people and deal with what they say without turning it into a fullblown argument.

That's an option.

Oh, and your post doesn't make any fucking sense. It's a poor comparison to Aria because Death has no prior relationship with Soma like he does with Alucard. Alucard got his gear stripped in Symphony because Death has a history with him and has the leeway to fuck with him (not to mention the implication of "if I take his shit, he'll have to go get it, and if he hangs around long enough looking for it we might still be able to convince him to either join our side or leave," since Death makes the "join or leave" offer again in the Inverted Mine despite Alucard's seemingly final verdict at the start of the game).

Meanwhile Soma has no extensive history with Death (him have Dominance/being Mathias' reincarnation doesn't count), isn't waltzing in the Castle with high-level gear capable of wrecking pretty much everything but the big guys without much effort, and isn't (yet) being entreated by the enemy forces to join the bad-guy side. He's a kid in the wrong place at the right time who just so happens to have a vested involvement in the story's goings-on.

So, yeah. I'd say the comparison and hypothetical makes no fucking sense, either, since there's absolutely no sensible basis for it other than for you to make the comparison in the hope of somehow painting Death stealing Al's shit in a bad or nonsensical light. There is no foundation for the hypothetical to work in Aria as the reasons it works in Symphony are not present in Aria.

There's your rebuttal. Now can we be done with this before this thread turns into another shitfest?
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 22, 2017, 12:39:22 AM
Well, if you think my argument makes no fucking sense, try rebutting.

No see that's where you're wrong, your post addressed NONE of my points and so in return rather than acknowledging any of your irrelevant points, which would require time on my behalf - time which I was unprepared to spend rebutting to something utterly shit and nonsensical, as well as uninformed - I decided that I would tell you how bad it was with a downvote, making the point to inform you.

I only debate when there's something to be debated, not when people display little to no understanding of the subject matter on which they're posting.

Downvoting and acts such means that your arguments has ran out and you admitted defeat on this debate.

Um fucking how exactly? Who made you the DICtator of downvotes? Using your logic I can say "You informing me that my downvote is due to lack of rebuttal is because you're the one who has none", but I'm not fucking 5 years old so I won't fabricate immature reasoning which is based on emotion rather than fact, to win a debate which only 1 party only perceives as such. There was no debate, I gave reasons that the Death sequence was there in SOTN, from both a narrative and a gameplay perspective and you replied that you didn't like it, other Castlevania games (that were released after) did it better (in your opinion) and that you felt the game was "teasing you". (I lol'd while writing that last sentence by the way.)

You see, your opinion in this particular example is based on things which are out of context. If you don't like it say you don't like it, explain why, and move on. For the record, I don't believe any game at the time of SOTN's release handled 2d exploration platforming as well as it did.

A downvote is a downvote. It is something which I rarely use, even in the most heated of debates where the mods are telling people to cool it. Additionally if a post is not relevant or I don't find the ideas within it attractive, I generally I ignore it and pay no attention. However, that post you wrote was utter dog shit, enough so to make me want to downvote it. I have used downvotes a total of about 3 times in all the years I've been on CVD.

In a general sense, there are sometimes interesting posts which are not researched/ uninformed, by the same token there are well researched posts which aren't that interesting. There's one thing in getting overly excited about an idea or theory or reasoning and running with it, but in future making sense and addressing what someone has said point by point (talking to someone) rather than serving random useless opinions which have no basis in context (talking at someone) would better support your idea/ theory.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 22, 2017, 05:05:26 AM
Yes. Yes. But, everytime someone gives dislikes or that kind is usually the losing side in "my" experience. And I didn't knew there were like buttons until you pointed out, which I have to give gratitude for, so I can throw bunch of upvotes on everything now. My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again. Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Also, I condemned on the stealing item itself, not Death doing it, just that Death is only one to do it. Soma just came for comparison. Also that I have personal grudge towards this theft of items cuz when I played SotN for the first time and getting smashed with Slogra-Gaibon because of lack of weaponry and protective gears and when I replayed  the game and checked Alucard's stats made me pissed.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/21/dc/77/21dc779cf4fa010983ff04cb3e2b4e1a.jpg)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F67a84d747fa6e79fac7b52c92c12f913%2Ftumblr_inline_n93lhtlPd91rnw8xk.gif&hash=a99770d6a50e569d223c801051944c22)
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Dracula9 on March 22, 2017, 07:19:57 AM
Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Haven't you played the God of War series? Half the games do it after the first area.

Also, consider balancing.

Alucard has his own shit and there wouldn't be any sensible reason for him to wage war on the Castle without some kind of gear of his own. He left home centuries prior with his mother's heirlooms and went to sleep, so there's no reason why he wouldn't or shouldn't begin his journey with some of his own gear.

What would the devs have done if Death didn't steal it? Think about the point in the game you get it all back--very lategame, with every item obtainable at the same time(s) being lategame and strong gear also. If Death doesn't steal it at the start, then Alucard begins the game with lategame gear, and thus there's no difficulty curve. Every item leading up to the Inverted Castle would have to be on-par with the items within it, and therefore the Inverted's items would have to be even stronger than they already are.

And we already know how easily one can break the difficulty of the game in half after a certain point/getting certain items. If Alucard doesn't lose his gear, the difficulty curve doesn't exist, and as a direct result the game's balancing would be breakable even sooner. We all know the Crissaegrim breaks the difficulty like a twig, now imagine getting it in the Alchemy Lab or Marble Gallery. Game loses all semblance of pacing and structure (or at least, what little it has up until the "become OP" segments are accessible).

And we can't just run with the idea of "well rebalance the difficulty curve to accomodate Alucard starting with and keeping his gear," since that would require all the lategame enemies being around from the start (which, regardless of equipment, isn't a fair notion since you still start the game at a low level regardless of your gear), and throwing even harder ones in at the end. It isn't as though Alucard begins the game so OP the thing's barely a challenge--he can still die in a few hits in the hands of a careless or reckless player. So it isn't as if he himself was always super powerful when the game started, he just had really good gear. Meaning, of course, that his start-game skill is less to do with his stats or level and almost exclusively to do with the quality of his gear. And since his start-game skill is determined almost solely by a series of items, those items become a very viable threat to the intended pacing of the game if allowed to be retained. Just look at how differently the game plays when one uses the Warg knockback trick to keep all the Alucard gear.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 22, 2017, 08:28:11 AM
Haven't you played the God of War series? Half the games do it after the first area.

Also, consider balancing.

Alucard has his own shit and there wouldn't be any sensible reason for him to wage war on the Castle without some kind of gear of his own. He left home centuries prior with his mother's heirlooms and went to sleep, so there's no reason why he wouldn't or shouldn't begin his journey with some of his own gear.

What would the devs have done if Death didn't steal it? Think about the point in the game you get it all back--very lategame, with every item obtainable at the same time(s) being lategame and strong gear also. If Death doesn't steal it at the start, then Alucard begins the game with lategame gear, and thus there's no difficulty curve. Every item leading up to the Inverted Castle would have to be on-par with the items within it, and therefore the Inverted's items would have to be even stronger than they already are.

And we already know how easily one can break the difficulty of the game in half after a certain point/getting certain items. If Alucard doesn't lose his gear, the difficulty curve doesn't exist, and as a direct result the game's balancing would be breakable even sooner. We all know the Crissaegrim breaks the difficulty like a twig, now imagine getting it in the Alchemy Lab or Marble Gallery. Game loses all semblance of pacing and structure (or at least, what little it has up until the "become OP" segments are accessible).

And we can't just run with the idea of "well rebalance the difficulty curve to accomodate Alucard starting with and keeping his gear," since that would require all the lategame enemies being around from the start (which, regardless of equipment, isn't a fair notion since you still start the game at a low level regardless of your gear), and throwing even harder ones in at the end. It isn't as though Alucard begins the game so OP the thing's barely a challenge--he can still die in a few hits in the hands of a careless or reckless player. So it isn't as if he himself was always super powerful when the game started, he just had really good gear. Meaning, of course, that his start-game skill is less to do with his stats or level and almost exclusively with the quality of his gear. And since his start-game skill is determined almost solely by a series of [/i]items[/i], those items become a very viable threat to the intended pacing of the game if allowed to be retained. Just look at how differently the game plays when one uses the Warg knockback trick to keep all the Alucard gear.

Haven't played it yet, but now that I am aware of it, I'll check it out.

About balancing, they could have given Alucard a basic knife to start with. Like Soma, Jonathan and Shanoa. Soma gets a knife, Jonathan has this seriously-nerfed VK and Shanoa has basic rapier glyph. Later in the game they get Clamih Solais, Crissaegrim better glyphs and open VK's power. Could have made that Alucard had to go find the sets, since he lived in the castle before CV3, and there were no mention about it in CV3. Even though the concept didn't exist in CV3.

Another fact is that Alucard's sets could grow its power according to Alucard's level. in very early stage, it barely has any difference with other weapons or worse then other. However, it gets stronger, and at the end, it gets so strong that it almost feels like it can do anything. So the sword's power grows with its master, like Master Sword in LoZ Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: aensland on March 22, 2017, 08:34:19 AM
Symphony literally gives you 2 weapons that can carry you up until getting to the Long Library shop right after you get stripped of your starter set
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: X on March 22, 2017, 09:54:20 AM
superc4@

Getting both the Short Sword and Red Rust in SotN is not very far into the game. It's not like the designers are throwing you to the wolves after you get stripped of your Alucard equipment. You literally progress about two chambers of the map before encountering a bloody zombie that carries the Short Sword. Have you ever played the Metroid series? Some of the games strip you down of your high-end equipment and you have to relocate your lost gear. It happens throughout the Prime series.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 23, 2017, 02:42:31 AM
On a random aside to this, because of the discussions about Death making his offer to Alucard to rejoin Dracula's side, and his gear prior to rebelling has suddenly made me think about what if there was a game that had had Alucard as a major antagonist (and not boss fight that finishes with him joining your team).  Where you see Alucard at his darkest point, when he was sided with his father. That could be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 23, 2017, 02:49:13 AM
On a random aside to this, because of the discussions about Death making his offer to Alucard to rejoin Dracula's side, and his gear prior to rebelling has suddenly made me think about what if there was a game that had had Alucard as a major antagonist (and not boss fight that finishes with him joining your team).  Where you see Alucard at his darkest point, when he was sided with his father. That could be pretty cool.

That actually sounds really cool. Like Alucard walked the same path of his father to avenge his mother, but that case, we would miss the one of greatest CV Protagonist.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: TatteredSeraph on March 23, 2017, 03:09:39 AM
I've seen it done in a fanfic, where he ends up meeting iirc Trevor under diferent circumstances.  In my idea I'm thinking it's set during when he was for a brief time wanting to avenge his mother, before later on joining the side of the Belmonts, but an alternate timeline where he never joins Trevor's side could also be interesting. 
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 23, 2017, 06:12:12 AM
Yes. Yes. But, everytime someone gives dislikes or that kind is usually the losing side in "my" experience.
So you're trying to win? Good for you, unlike you I was not trying to win as I don't consider your points as rebuttal and hence not a debate.

My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again. Thinkng, no game that I've ever played gets [player's weapon stripped for no apparent reason (e.x. Game over).

Legacy of Kain, Metroid: Zero Mission, Metroid: Prime, as three examples of good games nonetheless.

Also, I condemned on the stealing item itself, not Death doing it, just that Death is only one to do it.

No one literally ever said that Death was a relevant factor in your personal likes/ dislikes.
If you don't like your gear getting stolen, do the Death glitch, keep your gear, simple.

Also that I have personal grudge towards this theft of items cuz when I played SotN for the first time and getting smashed with Slogra-Gaibon because of lack of weaponry and protective gears and when I replayed  the game and checked Alucard's stats made me pissed.

No one cares about personal grudges or peoples' anger. One person's tantrums don't make a critically acclaimed game's design choice unfavourable.

Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: suomynona on March 23, 2017, 06:58:32 AM
Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.

Malus, I think was the beta for Soma Cruz (or Soma was based on Malus), like he's Dracula's reincarnation or that sort and it is revealed very late in the game, when you think the other guy is Dracula.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: chainsawmidget on March 23, 2017, 05:06:23 PM
Quote
My concluding point is that stealing player's deus ex item to make the player from badass to wimp is a hard joke played by game and never should be happening again.
I loved that moment.  It was a well played slap in the face.  Alucard goes strolling in there like he's Mr. Hotshot Vampire Killer and gets slapped right down. 

Quote
Back to the thread, in an antagonist sense, I'm surprised no one mentioned Malus from CV64/ LOD. I thought his character was handled very well, particularly for the era in which those games were released.
Not only for the era where his games were released,but overall.  I think C64 had some of the best supporting characters the series has ever seen. 
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: SecretWeapon on April 12, 2017, 04:28:07 PM
Shanoa. Also just dropping the "I am the morning sun come to vanquish this horrible night" line makes her more badass than Aluard, Soma and the others together.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: zangetsu468 on April 12, 2017, 04:50:10 PM
Shanoa. Also just dropping the "I am the morning sun come to vanquish this horrible night" line makes her more badass than Aluard, Soma and the others together.

Although that was for the English localisation, but yes fucking badass nonetheless XD
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Vesperaevis on April 21, 2017, 02:12:46 PM
Hm. My first CV game was Aria, so I'm definitely biased towards Soma. I did really love running around the DoS castle as Yoko, though, and I would've loved an option to play as Mina in either game.

Also, jumping on board the Shanoa is a badass train with how she ended the lighthouse boss fight. "Go to hell."
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: Lashen on March 26, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
Grant Danasty or Nathan Graves if we're talking playable characters.
Title: Re: Your Favourine Non-Belmont Character?
Post by: FanOfDracula on March 26, 2019, 11:54:31 PM
carmilla and alucard although I think that carmilla lacked more history to the character... also hector is very good, but I prefer alucard