Topic: January 2015 Castlevania Dungeon MUSIC Contest

[uzo]

It wasn't snide, but quite literal. He didn't even down mix. He went UP in sound technology and flexibility. That is against the spirit of the contest isn't it? If you're looking for a down mix then GBA should only go to Genesis (though I gather not an acceptable target system) or NES. I think you can see there by how picking GBA to SNES is really not fitting, and in a way a REALLY easy and safe pick.

If you want my take on the rules:
Advanced Chiptunes (GBA, DS) -> NES
Non-Chiptunes -> SNES or NES
Non-Acceptable Sources: SNES, NES, GEN

Call my entry cop-out, let me see what you've got.

I hope you're not implying that musicians are immune to criticisms from non-musicians? Or is your ego really that easily bruised?

Oh, Drac9, that was a snide remark there. Ya know, just so we know the difference.

[Dracula9]

Better part of seven years I've known you, I know when you've got your cheeky cap on. But the spirit of the contest isn't purely an NES-conversion, it calls for either SNES or NES/FC conversion. Had I originally made it a strictly 8-bit theme, Chern's entry would indeed be violating rules. But since I didn't, it's not. As I said in the long post, whether or not it's good is a matter of opinion. Is it an easy/safe route on a technical level? Yes, but there's no rule against that. And he also did the entire OST, which definitely is a show of work more than a single song. To me, that counts.

Figure I'll post mine. Circle of the Moon songs downmixed to Akumajo Densetsu VRC6.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/7vlfglg4wf4f45d/ClockworkMansion.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/damz6lvdbc04rsc/Clockwork.mp3

I might go Chern's route and do 'em all. They convert nicely.

[Shiroi Koumori]

@Drac9: Go with Chern's route and convert em all! Just post everything in one place when they're done.

[Chernabogue]

I hope you're not implying that musicians are immune to criticisms from non-musicians? Or is your ego really that easily bruised?

I'm not. I'd be understanding if your criticism focused on the music itself and not my choices. You didn't even commented on the music itself. I thought AoS would be perfect with SC4's soundfonts, since they both share a certain atmosphere.

If you want me to go with GBA -> NES, fine, I'll finish a few things a have to do and re-do HoD's soundtrack in NES format. Guess I won't have your vote in the end, eh?

----

@Dracula9: Yeah, go for it, dude!

[uzo]

If you want me to go with GBA -> NES, fine, I'll finish a few things a have to do and re-do HoD's soundtrack in NES format.

Oh come on, now you're just doing it on purpose.

Honestly if it was any random noob I wouldn't have batted much of an eye at it, but I know you're way better than easy conversions. I really expected a stand out entry from you.

@Dracula9: Well it's your baby now. If you want to accept UPmixes in what you seem to describe as a DOWNmix contest, then whatever.

[Chernabogue]

Oh come on, now you're just doing it on purpose.

Honestly if it was any random noob I wouldn't have batted much of an eye at it, but I know you're way better than easy conversions. I really expected a stand out entry from you.

Well now don't tell me GBA sounds are similar to NES sounds. XD Maybe in terms of quality/composition? Wanted to do GBA since I have the complete soundtracks in MIDI format but maybe I'll find another source, like a PS2 game.

I appreciate you don't see me as a noob, but if you want some great entries from me, wait for a non-chiptune month (not my cup of tea).

[Dracula9]

I don't know how well you know the technicalities of chiptunes and console soundchips uzo, but nothing posted has been an upmix in the sense you're making it. Easy routes, surely, but certainly nothing deserving of you treating Chern's entry like a pariah.

Converting Aria's songs into SCVIV's style only counts as an upmix on extremely mundane levels of what each console could support. Due to the GBA being a tiny handheld, it should be expected that it has less processing power than a console five times its size. So in that regard and that regard alone you're correct.

And what part of "he did the entire soundtrack" are you conveniently forgetting? He's done a good deal of work, which for someone known not to do chiptunes, samples, or soundfonts is a display of skill. Am I saying his Aria entry is perfect? No (could have done with a little bit more release time on the samples, Chern), but for being entirely out of his usual playing field I think he's done a fine job. But I'm not a judge, so what do I know, right?

Yes, converting HoD is an even easier route, since it reused a lot of CVIII's samples and styles, but it falls under the demands of the contest. Even I have to facepalm a little at it, but that's only because sampletunes and chiptunes are a practiced specialty of mine. Chern doesn't do it, so of course he's going to take paths of lesser resistance. It's not a lack of skill on his part, it's a safe play. He doesn't know the full technical ramifications that go with the territory of chiptunes, and it's not really something you can just up and get the swing of in a month. Expecting a "standout" entry from him is unfair of you, because you know this area isn't his forte. If he had more experience in chiptunes I have no doubt he'd be putting forth Emmy-nominated songs, but that's not the case.

Your opinion is not law. Are his entries upmixes? On a purely technical level, and a minute one at that, yes. But they sound good and fit the style adequately for him being out of his element.

Lose the attitude. I knew what to expect going in with this theme, so calling it "my baby now" is irrelevant. It was my baby from the start; you can't dump something you don't like on my lap like it's going to shame me or something. Save your snark and snide for after more entries get in.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Alright guys, cut the snarky remarks.

Remember, a bunch of random people who only bothered to listen to the samples and vote in the poll will be the judges. The simple rule is, if you don't like what a contestant submitted, don't vote, vote for someone else, or if you really hate this month's contest, then don't vote at all.

[uzo]

Well now don't tell me GBA sounds are similar to NES sounds. XD Maybe in terms of quality/composition?

Naw. More or less in that the HoD soundtrack makes very frequent use of primitive samples making it sound "8bit" a lot of times. They're almost like NES songs with the occasional other sample mixed in.

[theANdROId]

Just curious about a random thing... "HoD" is thrown around a bit, but could technically be one of two different games.  Is there a common way either dungeonites or CV fans abbreviate and differentiate between Harmony of Dissonance and Harmony of Despair?

[uzo]

It's generally accepted that HoD is Harmony of Dissonance and HD is Harmony of Despair.

[darkmanx_429]

I am not an expert in this kind of stuff by any means so that's probably why you guys haven't got so much participation in this month's contest.

Is there an option where you guys could post a tutorial on how the process of coverting a post NES song into a SNES song or is it too in-depth like for novices to jump aboard?

[Dracula9]

There are a ton of different options for doing it. There's no single "right" method. You have more accurate programs like trackers, more flexible programs like FL (what I use), mixxcraft, etc., lesser-quality output converters like GSXCC (which contrary to popular belief does NOT emulate the NES, but rather the MSX), and various other methods.

[BMC_War Machine]

Im by no means tryin to criticize or slam anyone but more or less asking what is involved with making these songs from midi to chiptune. Is it a simple conversion in the sense that all that is needed is loading the sondfont in a DAW then just putting the midi track on it? Basically, is the composer adding anything or merely using an already made midi file? If so I can see where some people can get pissed.

[Dracula9]

It can be that, yes. Personally I don't believe people have the right to get pissed about it if the musician states as such. I require a MIDI for basically every song I do, and I don't pretend any differently. If someone lies and tries to play it off like they did it themselves, however...that's another story.

But in the case of MIDI > chiptune, there's quite a few ways to do it, some better than others. There are instant conversion programs like GSXCC, which due to the nonexistant amount of effort required typically get slammed pretty hard. There's also opening up the MIDI in a program and replacing the MIDI channels with the chiptune sounds. From that method, there are those who export it as-is and pay no heed to console limitations, usually resulting in a shoddy conversion that gets understandably bricked. Then there's what I do, which constitutes breaking the MIDI up into the appropriate number of channels for whatever system I'm trying to emulate, load in the waveform samples, and from there add/replace/cut out parts as necessary to make sure no limits are being violated (i.e. having five channels' worth of stuff playing in a 2A03 NEs song, when there should only be four). If I'm doing an 8-bit system I then isolate the entire thing to one side and make it monaural.

In the defense of my method, I believe there's actually a degree more work required than, say, someone using a tracker, because FL Studio doesn't have the console restrictions built into it like a tracker does. But that's just my two cents.