Topic: Streaming CV64, FINALE

[Laina]

Hey, muchachos. Uzo & I are in the home stretch of our CV64 run, expecting to complete sometime tonight. If anyone's inclined to do so, you can watch him either breathe a sigh of relief at conquering it or spiral so deeply into that madness that he is forever lost to us. It's a real crapshoot. She all begins at 10:00 pm EST, July 16th.

www.twitch.tv/marcdwyz

[Abnormal Freak]

Did you guys ever finish it, or did Uzo just say, "Fuck this game forever"?

[redrum]

i played it again recently, first time since i transcribed all the game's text (which since then has been lost, sadly)
for me, this game holds up so well that it's amazing.  contrary to what people say, i never had a problem with the camera and actually found it to be more versatile than cameras in similar, more recent games.  also the epilogue is fantastic.  after all this time, i had forgotten that

(click to show/hide)

Malus is the son of Cornell/Ada.  well, at least it's heavily implied that way, but it's a twist that really brings things full circle.

[TheTextGuy]

i played it again recently, first time since i transcribed all the game's text (which since then has been lost, sadly)
for me, this game holds up so well that it's amazing.  contrary to what people say, i never had a problem with the camera and actually found it to be more versatile than cameras in similar, more recent games.  also the epilogue is fantastic.  after all this time, i had forgotten that

(click to show/hide)

Malus is the son of Cornell/Ada.  well, at least it's heavily implied that way, but it's a twist that really brings things full circle.

aye, I need to dust off the old Ninty-64 again.

I remember when I first played it I thought it was a good game.  The first level stumbles a bit, but the rest of the game is pretty solid.  I think I did have problems with the camera or the aiming system, but obviously not enough to deter me from beating the game.  Also, that nitro part of the Castle wasn't that bad at all.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Uzo's a little bitch with that game.
It's kinda nice to see him screaming.
"Blah blah memory card is broken for this game only"
"Blah blah i are ded"

[redrum]

Plz record and make a death montage clipshow 

[Laina]

Did you guys ever finish it, or did Uzo just say, "Fuck this game forever"?

Saving it for when we can find my memory pack that is in working order. We'll announce it when we attempt a one shot.

[RichterB]

I'll be interested to check this out when it happens. These N64 games are worth the effort.

I'm reposting this here for those who mostly frequent this side of the forums:

You've undoubtedly seen me lay out my case for these games before. But I decided to show why these had so many fundamentals down from the franchise. I used the original hardware to make this video. It's not as comprehensive as I'd like--that'd be a much larger project and include LoD as well--but this shows the basics of why CV64 laid the groundwork for Castlevania in 3D better than any game since, IMO. I set it to Battle of the Holy to show how it's not a black sheep, but works with classic tunes as well: http://bit.ly/2v64Hkt

[redrum]

the people who love this game should get their own little badge or whatever, that way we can identify each other from all the other people who are WRONG.  WRONG AND HORRIBLY INCORRECT.  i think folks put too much stock into video game reviews as it is, but the criticism of this in particular seemed to have spread like wildfire.  ah well, it's here for all of us who enjoy it.  everyone else can just go off and be WRONG.  WRONG AND HORRIBLY INCORRECT. ?

[Abnormal Freak]

It could be an icon of Carrie flashing her panties.

[uzo]

Guess nostalgia really blinds you from that bad game design and bad controls.

[redrum]

just because you can't get through the game doesn't mean that it's bad, oozey.  if you're having trouble figuring it out then maybe those PS2 games are more your speed?

as for nostaliga, i've been a fan of the game  (and it's design, and it's controls) since it came out in 1999.  i suppose that it seems to get better with age, though.  that whole maze garden scenario still gets my heart pumping.

[Abnormal Freak]

CV64 and LOD had pretty bad controls even when they came out. Didn't stop me from enjoying them, and I've played through them several times, as recently as only a few years ago. What they lack in finesse, they make up for in ambience and the little quirks that make video gaming wonderful. I tend to favor stilted games with an interesting vision over the polished same-old.

There's no denying that of all the 3D Castlevanias, the N64 ones still captured the spirit and gameplay of the originals the best. (Although the actual best 3D Castlevania is called Bloodborne.)

Citing nostalgia when one enjoys something is always a lazy criticism; and no, there's nothing wrong with embracing nostalgia either.

[redrum]

it's interesting playing it with a PS1-type "singleshock" controller.  feels like i'm breaking some sort of unwritten fundamental law when using it on an N64 game, it really works great when properly calibrated correctly, though.
i agree that saying people only enjoy something because of nostalgia is a flimsy argument.  it's a weak push with strangers, but even weaker with people you know already, on a subject you've discussed with them before.  sounds like oozer's just trying to be a sassy beeyotch.

[RichterB]

When Castlevania 64 came out, I remember playing it and thinking it was interesting and good, but I sort of took it for granted and didn't necessarily think it was special. In fact, I think Lament of Innocence had a stronger first impression on me in some ways. But I never thought of either N64 game as bad. And then, sometime after Curse of Darkness or the first Lords of Shadow, I really began to admire what Castlevania 64 (and Legacy of Darkness) had done. It wasn't simply nostalgia. They're flawed, but still managed to legitimately bring Castlevania into the third dimension in a big way.

I've found that over 90% of the camera problems can be fixed with the R Button, and I've never had much issue with the controls, especially after some practice (aside from a few ledge-grabbing sequences, I suppose). I posted a video earlier in this thread, and when you get in a rhythm with this game, it flows pretty darn well. The N64 game was the growing pains for Castlevania in 3D, but those growing pains were cut short in a "helicopter parent" sort of way with the attempts at taking shortcuts with LoI, CoD, and LoS. (i.e. Let's do Castlevania through the lens of Devil May Cry, God of War, etc.) LoD wasn't so much a full-fledged second attempt as it was a DLC patch that was likely trying to shore up development costs from the first game.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but like Abnormal Freak, I tend to give credit for the overall experience over the nuts and bolts. In today's overly perfectionistic world, we tend to judge video games by if they dotted all their I's and crossed all their T's, but if that were the case we could retroactively condemn a whole host of classic, influential, and fun games. And on that note, I'm trying to figure out what Castlevania 64/LoD is being compared to in that sense. The 3D biggies of its time were like Mario 64 and Tomb Raider and a few others. (You can throw in Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Metal Gear Solid...but those are not platformers by any means, and the former couldn't really be used as any sort of major reference given the overlap in development times.) Anyway, when you look at the general attempt at realistic proportions, physics, and environments in terms of translating real-time, input-driven 3D action-platforming with exploration elements and the quirks/trappings of the Castlevania franchise, it had a taller task than the highly praised Mario 64. If I compare it to contemporary games that I guess had similar-ish tasks...maybe Soul Reaver, Medievil, Nightmare Creatures, Tomb Raider...Castlevania 64 is generally less herky-jerky in controls/camera/visuals and in many ways just as or more ambitious while doing it. So, while the N64 era of Castlevania could be awkward or rough around the edges at times, for a first attempt, I think it stood up against the competition just fine and I don't completely understand where the judgment is coming from on that front.

I suppose there is the front that it wasn't SotN or SotN in 3D. But that's unfair. That's like saying Castlevania IV wasn't Dracula's Curse, or Rondo of Blood wasn't Castlevania IV, or Bloodlines wasn't Rondo of Blood, etc. Castlevania has always been a series that experimented and remixed itself, and the N64 games tried to bring a little bit of everything, including their own spin. (I guess I've heard the argument that the N64 games took too many cues from Tomb Raider...but that's not a fair argument, because they each brought a different gameplay mix to the table and one could also easily say that Mario 64 was too much like Tomb Raider compared to the franchise's earlier 2D entries.) There's a place for different interpretations within reason, where there is give-and-take from each entry, and that's what helped make this franchise great, IMO. If I'm disappointed about anything with the N64 games, it's that they weren't allowed to be completed as planned. The interviews and beta videos promised even more than what we got with the additional material of LoD. The hearts and minds of the people that worked on this were in the right place, I feel.

There's no denying that of all the 3D Castlevanias, the N64 ones still captured the spirit and gameplay of the originals the best. (Although the actual best 3D Castlevania is called Bloodborne.)

Not so fast...Bloodborne's got the visuals, atmosphere, interconnected world, and challenge...but it's lacking in the "platforming" and enemy placement departments, and has too much combat grinding, just like Dark Souls. I think we have to be careful that, should such a thing happen, the next 3D Castlevania doesn't end up trying to carbon-copy a successful 3D game that's missing fundamental ingredients of the franchise. It's probably much harder to get a potential new 3D Castlevania up and running with a paradigm of its own, but that's what the franchise needs to stand out and get the most mileage. I think Lords of Shadow proved that to me once and for all. But I doubt there's the guts to go for it at this point.