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Online zangetsu468

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2016, 06:33:43 PM »
0
Nothing wrong with a good olde' fashioned split timeline.
I remember back in the hey-days of Zelda I was a splitist and used to take on many linearists in my spare time. Hell, I even called the 3 way timeline split for every game to both work while relating back to OOT.
I can't ignore that OOS sets up a plot where old man Dracula (his Spirit Guardian) is fought and the castle doesn't crumble, preceding LoD.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2016, 01:32:55 AM »
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Well, there's a simple technical reason for it actually. In the N64 games, the moment Dracula revives after 100 years in 1852 (this is also made clear in the Japanese version), which doesn't match up with the dates used for other games in the timeline at all. I suppose you could just ignore that information, but I'm guessing it's one of the reason the game ended up removed from the storyline. If the setting of the games is a completely different world and not an alternative timeline, then one wouldn't have to worry about details like that. Secondly, which is just my personal preference, there really isn't any set-up for it. But this is just what I think, of course.

So since Cornell appears in Judgment, has a shared history with the characters, but IGA still insist Legacy of Darkness is a gaiden, I thought the most simple way to reconcile this is that a event involving Cornell, with strong similarities to the plot of Legacy of Darkness, happend in a somewhat similar fashion in the IGA timeline. This may or may not fall in line with his comment about "tweaking" old storylines. Of course, a split timeline is still an alternative way to handle the situation, but it does require a lot of explanation.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2016, 01:56:55 AM »
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Well, there's a simple technical reason for it actually. In the N64 games, the moment Dracula revives after 100 years in 1852 (this is also made clear in the Japanese version), which doesn't match up with the dates used for other games in the timeline at all. I suppose you could just ignore that information, but I'm guessing it's one of the reason the game ended up removed from the storyline.

Actually makes sense and I can't ignore that. Indeed seems like one of the reasons the game got removed.

Yet, I must point out what Malus!Dracula says and how it conflicts with LoD itself: "Now, after 100 years, I return in the body of this child. I never dreamed it would last so long...ah the wasted years! I live again!!!"

Dracula was revived in 1844, and that was NOT an impostor -- the impostor is Gilles de Rais defeated by Reinhardt later. Gilles de Rais is seen on the ritual performed by Death that revives Dracula in the intro, so that is obviously the real Dracula who Cornell fought.

Therefore it's not been "100 years" since his last revival, but only 8 years. Either Dracula is speaking on a generalised manner, or the developers didn't think this through (OR in japanese he says something completelly different).

Your statement regarding the 100 years rule stands, and I'll have to rethink this through. I think it's STILL possible to build an split timeline from that, so I'll be looking for a feasible way to do it. But there is a clear contradiction within the logic here, unless what Dracula says makes more sense in japanese.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 02:38:28 AM by theplottwist »
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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2016, 02:29:43 AM »
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That's the thing though plottwist, LOD's Dracula was on the brink of being resurrected but Cornell sent him back to the underworld. Technically he never manifested into flesh (although his Guardian did).
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2016, 02:33:08 AM »
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That's the thing though plottwist, LOD's Dracula was on the brink of being resurrected but Cornell sent him back to the underworld. Technically he never manifested into flesh (although his Guardian did).

That's not really what happens, though. Dracula is indeed resurrected by Death in the first cutscene of the game, sacrifice and all. Gilles de Rais is there in the room with him, so that Dracula is not a fake.

The Guardian is Gilles de Rais himself in disguise.
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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2016, 02:39:46 AM »
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In the Japanese version, he says: "My memories from a hundred years ago have returned to me" or something like that. He doesn't actually say this was the first time he revived since then, but it does imply it was that time that his last full resurrection took place.

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2016, 03:35:35 AM »
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That's not really what happens, though. Dracula is indeed resurrected by Death in the first cutscene of the game, sacrifice and all. Gilles de Rais is there in the room with him, so that Dracula is not a fake.

The Guardian is Gilles de Rais himself in disguise.

That's old Dracula though, he is the Guardian of true Dracula's spirit.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

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Re: Cornell Is Not The Only One From His Timeline In Judgment
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2016, 09:50:37 AM »
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So since Cornell appears in Judgment, has a shared history with the characters, but IGA still insists Legacy of Darkness is a gaiden, I thought the most simple way to reconcile this is that a event involving Cornell, with strong similarities to the plot of Legacy of Darkness, happened in a somewhat similar fashion in the IGA timeline.

I have been arguing this for years. Thank you for saying it.

My personal belief is that the "canon" version of those events would be that Dracula's actual resurrection failed completely, but everything else is free to happen largely as displayed in game.
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