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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 04, 2012, 07:36:25 PM

Title: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 04, 2012, 07:36:25 PM
Nothing we haven't discussed before, but maybe you guys can drop them a line with your thoughts?

Here's the Jump (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/11/15/frankenvania-building-the-perfect-castlevania-game.aspx?PostPageIndex=2)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 04, 2012, 07:58:00 PM
The article pretty much sums up everything.  And, it is true that at the start of OoE, the deck is somewhat stacked against you.  Plus, you need more than just power to beat some of the bosses.  You need some strategy.
The article also mentions how powerful Sypha was in CV3 in terms of offense and painfully weak defensively.  I really think the Belnades family deserves a spinoff.  For example, a game starring Sypha before she was turned to stone by the cyclops (and freed when Trevor/Ralph kills it).  Could be very interesting.  Hell, a game starring Yoko around to time of the Sorrow games would be nice.  We all know that the Belnades family are allies of the Belmonts, but they deserve a spinoff where they are doing there own thing independent of the Belmonts.  Sypha before she is rescued by Trevor/Ralph, and Yoko around the time of AoS and DoS are best bets for great spinoffs if done right.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: crisis on December 04, 2012, 08:20:54 PM
"With the exception of the most recent entry in the series, you would never mistake a Castlevania soundtrack for a film score or anything else, and that’s the way it should always be."

"Do we really need to know anything beyond the fact that there’s an evil master vampire at the heart of an extradimensional castle overflowing with evil? No. No, we do not."

"You’re not drunk – the room is really spinning."

MAKE IT HAPPEN KONAMI, RESURRECT AKUMAJO DRACULA WITH WAYFORWARD & IGA AS CREATIVE CONSULTANT, KOJIMA CREATING BYZANTINE-STYLE ART & CASTLEVANIA WILL TRULY BE REBORN!!!!!


as for spin-offs, i would like to see games with characters like these

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Fladygunner-01.png&hash=9bbe1b80feeca1623e221a772832d10e)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Flittlewitch-01.jpg&hash=db5ec3defb54f0b97b6e561e8de201e3)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Neobelmont on December 04, 2012, 11:18:57 PM
"With the exception of the most recent entry in the series, you would never mistake a Castlevania soundtrack for a film score or anything else, and that’s the way it should always be."

"Do we really need to know anything beyond the fact that there’s an evil master vampire at the heart of an extradimensional castle overflowing with evil? No. No, we do not."

"You’re not drunk – the room is really spinning."

MAKE IT HAPPEN KONAMI, RESURRECT AKUMAJO DRACULA WITH WAYFORWARD & IGA AS CREATIVE CONSULTANT, KOJIMA CREATING BYZANTINE-STYLE ART & CASTLEVANIA WILL TRULY BE REBORN!!!!!




Yeah but take out IGA and Kojima.
Let's see what wayfoward could do by themselves and give iga and kojima a break make them work on something else I mean would it really be a rebirth with the same folk at the helm again? Or what about if I dunno Keiji Inafune were to lead a castlevania project. Yeah right now he is working on the new ninja gaiden from my understanding, but with what he said about japan being behind in gaming innovation I would want to see how much innovation could be pumped into the series.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: A-Yty on December 05, 2012, 03:14:56 AM
I can do fine without Kojima. There's just so many other options. Masaki Hirooka for example. Or someone completely new. Or hell, track down some of the guys who did the S/NES cover art.

IGA I would keep around as an advisor. Maybe as executive producer (it's kind of an ambiguous title, but the point is I'd like to employ his experience in producing, but not hand him the responsibility of day-to-day production decisions).
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Chernabogue on December 05, 2012, 04:14:39 AM
Creating the perfect Castlevania is impossible, just because everyone has a different opinion on it.

Every point described there is arguable.

However, nice article.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: crisis on December 05, 2012, 05:40:51 AM
Quote
Yeah but take out IGA and Kojima.

why? IGA is great at original stories (not so much sequels to pre-existing stories) and Kojima's style is unique all its own (have you seen the work she did for Best Collections Music Box, or Santa Lilio Sangre, her artbook? Pure excellence.) Masaki is good but his art is too "generic," kinda like the CotM artist. Not bad art at all, don't get me wrong, but a new Akumajo title with brand new Kojima designs (as I said, hopefully in the Byzantine style she did for the Music Box) would be sweet and highly praised, without a doubt.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: beingthehero on December 05, 2012, 06:37:32 AM
Why not just make IGA director again like in SotN, so he worries about programming and level design instead.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: sannyclause on December 05, 2012, 06:41:14 AM
HO HO HO great read these guys really do know their stuff :)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Neobelmont on December 05, 2012, 09:24:55 AM
why? IGA is great at original stories (not so much sequels to pre-existing stories) and Kojima's style is unique all its own (have you seen the work she did for Best Collections Music Box, or Santa Lilio Sangre, her artbook? Pure excellence.) Masaki is good but his art is too "generic," kinda like the CotM artist. Not bad art at all, don't get me wrong, but a new Akumajo title with brand new Kojima designs (as I said, hopefully in the Byzantine style she did for the Music Box) would be sweet and highly praised, without a doubt.

All what I am saying is like the originals there was all most always a different team working on a cv just have someone else have a cack at it maybe have IGA produce something else like a remake on fuma or something else that is classic like yie-air kung-fu or even jackal, and as for the byzantine style it would be incredible for a gamecover that would be very unique. I do not think I can really counter that statement I have never seen a game that uses or at least incorporates a style like that. But in the end I just think both of them should do different things beyond castlevania and is that so bad?
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Sumac on December 05, 2012, 09:40:54 AM
Quote
IGA is great at original stories
It's very arguable.

Quote
Creating the perfect Castlevania is impossible, just because everyone has a different opinion on it.
Definitely right.


Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: X on December 05, 2012, 10:00:36 AM
I'd avoid Kojima for now as Castlevania has way too many pretty boys and that is leaving the series only one step closer to being like twilight. All they are missing is the sparkles  :P  As for IGA, An assistant director role so that he can be supervised and controlled so that he doesn't go all out and mess things up. Music-wise, bring in some of the original talent that made the NES, GB and SNES games a success.

Quote
"Item drops have given vampire slayers new capabilities ever since Simon got his first lucky axe, but none have done it better than the franchise’s first Nintendo DS outing. Soma’s ability to occasionally absorb the soul of a fallen enemy opened up a whole new world of passive abilities, active attacks, summon spells, and one-off powers like a spectral vacuum cleaner that absorbs HP from opponents."

I'm assuming the author hasn't heard of Area of Sorrow for the GBA which was the first to touch on this system of soul-collecting. But as for the rest, the article is decent.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: A-Yty on December 05, 2012, 10:26:40 AM
It's quite bizarre. Kojima's non-CV work often looks so much better than the majority of her CV art. And the "unofficial" CV work, like, for examples, the one of Soma with a spear and the DoS gang (sans Hammer) in a black and white portrait.

But honestly, I think her male CV protagonist illustrations are incredibly repetitive. And I can never unsee the anatomical oddities in some of her work.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: TheCruelAngel on December 05, 2012, 10:40:25 AM
That was a pretty fun read with a lot of interesting ideas pointed out.

When talking about lead artist, as much as I like Kojima's work I think letting someone else have a crack at it would be incredibly beneficial for the series. Some suggestions I have are:

THORES Shibamoto:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_me9c669IWq1r0ux83o1_500.png&hash=7ac5ccc61b2eca76d1908e755ad6c862)
https://yande.re/post/show?md5=0d49b4ffdfa4b42dc8f99db6b03c7278 (https://yande.re/post/show?md5=0d49b4ffdfa4b42dc8f99db6b03c7278)

Yoshitaka Amano:
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fillustratorslounge.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fyoshitaka_amano_02.jpg&hash=6ac6f02109a83ebb5f7b3dea0567b305)

I think they would have absolutely amazing takes on the world of Castlevania, all the while retaining that gothic/horror stance we've grown and loved with Kojima's work. I lean more toward Amano personally because I would love to see his style in fluid motion as a 1:1 interpretation...but that could just be me.  :-[
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Maedhros on December 05, 2012, 03:22:52 PM
I don't really care about who makes the game, I just hope we see the things they listed there on the next Castlevania game.

Why not a kickstarter? I'm sure they could make the money needed from it and release it in PSN/Steam/XBLA/etc.

Someone, send this idea to Konami.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Sumac on December 05, 2012, 03:35:28 PM
Quote
But honestly, I think her male CV protagonist illustrations are incredibly repetitive. And I can never unsee the anatomical oddities in some of her work.
Same here.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Dremn on December 05, 2012, 03:39:11 PM
The official Castlevania facebook group even acknowledged the article.

I really do hope Konami hasn't fully abandoned 2D Castlevania.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: crisis on December 05, 2012, 03:59:45 PM
HOHOHO you guys are missing the point when you say Kojima can only draw "pretty boys"

when I say Byzantine-style art I mean this

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FBooklet20Front.png&hash=43cd7bc56c005d0655dbe2d5f4ec7a1f)

which is WAY more appropriate for Castlevania & unique [amongst game artwork nowadays] considering  the  time  period  said  hypothetical  game  will  be  set  in
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Neobelmont on December 05, 2012, 05:07:21 PM
HOHOHO you guys are missing the point when you say Kojima can only draw "pretty boys"

when I say Byzantine-style art I mean this

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2FBooklet20Front.png&hash=43cd7bc56c005d0655dbe2d5f4ec7a1f)

which is WAY more appropriate for Castlevania & unique [amongst game artwork nowadays] considering  the  time  period  said  hypothetical  game  will  be  set  in


and as for the byzantine style it would be incredible for a gamecover that would be very unique. I do not think I can really counter that statement I have never seen a game that uses or at least incorporates a style like that. But in the end I just think both of them should do different things beyond castlevania and is that so bad?

I knew what you meant I am for sure we all did

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fusih.merchantrunglobal.com%2FImageHosting%2FViewImage.aspx%3FGlobalID%3D1003%26amp%3BMerchantID%3D33342%26amp%3BImageID%3D1171%26amp%3BDisplaySize%3D-1%26amp%3BListingID%3D215&hash=24e7a1e7ca277bbd83ce015e1fb90d40)

on an other note some folks seem to not agree with me a -4 come on was is the reason behind that....  :P  really what's the reason, like my suggestion was that bad  :rollseyes:

Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: knightmere on December 05, 2012, 05:18:17 PM
Good article, nice find Jorge.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: X on December 05, 2012, 05:52:24 PM
Quote
HOHOHO you guys are missing the point when you say Kojima can only draw "pretty boys"

when I say Byzantine-style art I mean this

That's only when Kojima steps out of her comfort zone and delivers something truly unique, like those Byzantine-style illustrations you've just shown us. But again you can still see her pretty-boy look in the Belmont Byzantine image though it's not as pronounced as it is in her other works. Kojima is a really good artist and her attention to the little details are amazing. And I really like how she illustrates her women. some of them are knock-outs. Unfortunately when it comes to men they come off as very androgenic with little to no variation. It is no-doubt due to the way she sees the men around her as Asian males have that pretty boy look for the most part. But if she's going to draw a European man then she needs to break away from that pretty boy look and deliver something a little more rough and ragged. European men of the middle-ages were not pretty at all and that was due to the harsh times they lived in. Sure Castlevania is a fictional game series, but I feel a little reality here and there wouldn't hurt at all. In fact I think it would help to enhance it somewhat. The American illustrations we've seen for the NES, GB, Genesis and SNES CV titles were a good example of masculinity in Castlevania and suited the themes of the games very well. I would love to see more of them in a future title.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: beingthehero on December 05, 2012, 06:10:14 PM
The original 8-bit and 16-bit Castlevania artwork in Japan were the same as those in the United States. They all used variations of the art inspired by the Conan the Barbarian films. The 'barbarian' Castlevania artwork is not really American.

That said, Kojima is inspired from art from the medieval and renaissance period. Men were depicted as effeminate back then as well:

St. George and the Dragon:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fst_george.jpg&hash=501831f71ed41b4c3393e5eb3119b76d)

St. Michael:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fstmichael.jpg&hash=bdb92eed5bcfdce30f9a13e3571c62b2)

Gabriel (lol) and Mary:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FAnton_Raphael_Mengs_-_Annunciation-1.jpg&hash=cd0afe5bcca959b240728465da22beac)

Knight and Lady:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fthumb_arth340frauminneloverimage.jpg&hash=745b36a558012dc568fbe4edb345253c)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: X on December 05, 2012, 06:18:48 PM
Quote
That said, Kojima is inspired from art from the medieval and renaissance period. Men were depicted as effeminate back then as well:

Definitely true, but do keep in mind that any artist of any time period will evoke their own personal touch to elevate the images as they see them. If someone looks rather ugly then the artist in question will detract from the ugliness and inject some form of artistic license to better beautify the image. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If we actually had photographs of the medieval times then we could really see who the people of that time looked.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Inccubus on December 05, 2012, 06:25:57 PM
The original 8-bit and 16-bit Castlevania artwork in Japan were the same as those in the United States. They all used variations of the art inspired by the Conan the Barbarian films. The 'barbarian' Castlevania artwork is not really American.

That said, Kojima is inspired from art from the medieval and renaissance period. Men were depicted as effeminate back then as well:

St. George and the Dragon:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fst_george.jpg&hash=501831f71ed41b4c3393e5eb3119b76d)

St. Michael:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fstmichael.jpg&hash=bdb92eed5bcfdce30f9a13e3571c62b2)

Gabriel (lol) and Mary:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FAnton_Raphael_Mengs_-_Annunciation-1.jpg&hash=cd0afe5bcca959b240728465da22beac)

Knight and Lady:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fthumb_arth340frauminneloverimage.jpg&hash=745b36a558012dc568fbe4edb345253c)

Hate to burst your bubble, but most of those pieces were created well after the Renaissance. And the angels are also meant to be androgynous, not male.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: beingthehero on December 05, 2012, 06:54:39 PM
First two are from the Victorian era, so that's true. But it does mean that effeminate depictions are not 20th century nor Japanese in origin. The last one is an illuminated manuscript from the 12th century. Archangels are also assigned specific genders, but this does vary from religion to religion, and even further once you break down into denominations. Some say angels have sex, others believe they are sexless beings. but i majorly digress, HOHOHO

Here are some more illuminated manuscripts from the medieval period

Knight kneeling:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fkneel-1.jpg&hash=75ccdac0c523faf426cd235e1b87efb3)

Two Martyrs:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fmartyrs.jpg&hash=edde51e565c87dea8eb6eb4d0deda54b)

Lancelot and Guinevere:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2FLancelotandGwendoingtheNasty.jpg&hash=15b64ac291abc9f91f3be98c975bf3e2)

St. George and the Dragon, again:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fstgeorgealtar.jpg&hash=6ab0d38d3fb0353f4a236962b2beaea1)

Knight presented with ring:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fknight.jpg&hash=6361b6d369e4f420c5d085acc6790205)

Three Kings from the Orient:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2F6335945294_6e2e71796e.jpg&hash=618b6e83f90cd890551be67735a2f7a7)

French lord and lady:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Flordandlady.jpg&hash=8bd2c4d7dbf69317840b57f25decfb79)

Lord hunting:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fillumination.jpg&hash=b360152821b821b5e27fc61aa8156bb3)

All from the 15th century and prior.

Of course, even early 20th Century Germany loved them some pretty boys:

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee35%2Fbeingthehero%2Fnibelungenstill-1.jpg&hash=acf765e7ce9bd2dd0e5e7bfc62d6a0e0)
Siegfried, from Fritz Lang's Der Nibelungen circa 1924.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: beingthehero on December 05, 2012, 07:04:43 PM
Definitely true, but do keep in mind that any artist of any time period will evoke their own personal touch to elevate the images as they see them. If someone looks rather ugly then the artist in question will detract from the ugliness and inject some form of artistic license to better beautify the image. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If we actually had photographs of the medieval times then we could really see who the people of that time looked.

That's true, but Kojima's art does make the heroes look angelic and 'perfect', while making the architecture and such much more sinister and skeletal.

Hey, perhaps if Simon's true appearance was his x68k look, then perhaps his Chronicles look was how he was depicted in-universe as according to the Church. A more beautiful barbarian.  :D

Also all this medieval art makes me want to play some chapel stages.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: TheCruelAngel on December 06, 2012, 10:46:51 AM
Going back to artist that may be sweet for the series, I think Kentaro Miura (Berserk mangaka) could provide something unique and fun to the series as well (if we can't convince Konami/Kojima to go full Byzantine I mean).

If you aren't familiar with his work...well...let's just say Berserk is not for everyone, and the beginning manga are kind of rough, but the later stuff is pure artistic gold. I recommend it, but only if you're into really dark fantasy, gore and nudity. Like I said, not for everyone.  :-X

(Yes all images are spoiler free and SFW)
http://fdzeta.com/imgcache/10989.imgcache.jpg (http://fdzeta.com/imgcache/10989.imgcache.jpg)
http://www.nonsolomanga.it/imm_manga2/berserk/bp_cavalieredelteschio.jpg (http://www.nonsolomanga.it/imm_manga2/berserk/bp_cavalieredelteschio.jpg)

If anything, the monsters will look really awesome and unique?
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 06, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
2nd Link = no hotlinking
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Ahasverus on December 06, 2012, 11:04:06 AM
I'm sorry but I don't wanna see a 2D main castlevania again in my lifetime. LoS independently of how Cv enough was for some showed that the series works really well in a grandiose scale, and even if it returns to japanase hands I don't want them to abandon that.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: thernz on December 06, 2012, 05:00:52 PM
If you think 2D can't be grandiose, I suggest you look at Harmony of Despair.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: uzo on December 06, 2012, 05:09:58 PM
I'm sorry but I don't wanna see a 2D main castlevania again in my lifetime.

Die monster. You don't belong in this world.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: crisis on December 06, 2012, 05:26:45 PM
HOHOHO awesome themes like this belong in a 2D CV game

Bloodrayne: Betrayal OST - Poisoned Halls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgZue4XHzE#ws)

Bloodrayne: Betrayal OST - Peaceful Moon (NES Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0fwtS3Ye7g#ws)


+1 for you uzo, lump of coal for Ahasverus  >:(
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Munchy on December 06, 2012, 05:56:24 PM
I'm sorry but I don't wanna see a 2D main castlevania again in my lifetime. LoS independently of how Cv enough was for some showed that the series works really well in a grandiose scale, and even if it returns to japanase hands I don't want them to abandon that.

While I do like the idea of a well-functioning 3D Castlevania, I still love the 2D ones. And it's not like you have to buy them if you don't want them.

My main gripe with the DS games was the lack of stuff to do in the individual rooms. Games like Metroid have very intricate rooms with different ways to navigate them, while in the Castlevanias for the most part it's just "walk right, hit things". Mirror of Fate looks like it will try to address this, but to what degree, who knows.

Also I'd like a female character who isn't a Belnades/mage type character for once. Shanoa was a good start, but even then they "justified" her use of weapons by saying "they're magical."

Any evolution of different types of levels would be highly welcome too. I can only see so many Clock Towers, Castle Keeps, and whatnot before they begin to blur together. Not to mention giving them appropriate enemies and bosses. I loved OoE a lot, but really, what the hell is a giant ass bug doing in a chapel?
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: crisis on December 06, 2012, 06:04:28 PM
HOHOHO Munchkins did you not notice the "Lady Gunner" from Akumajo Dracula:The Arcade?

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Fladygunner-01.png&hash=9bbe1b80feeca1623e221a772832d10e)

WHY HASN'T THIS GAME BEEN PORTED YET
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Kingshango on December 06, 2012, 06:21:49 PM
I'm sorry but I don't wanna see a 2D main castlevania again in my lifetime.

Ahasverus I like you but that's just.....insane. Like in the membrane.

No sane person in the world would say this, no one.

Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Gaawa-chan on December 06, 2012, 06:54:27 PM
If we're talking about art style, Amano is too heavily associated with Final Fantasy.  Castlevania deserves a more unique look.

Personally, I'd love to see it in the hands of the person who did the art for Daikoukai Jidai IV: Porto Estado, or something like it tweaked to fit the series better, anyway.  The general style feels like a cross between Order of Ecclesia's art and Ayami Kojima's work:
http://attachment1.tgbusdata.cn/image/jpg/b4/bc/e9b70e694b21be2d9b0f369b3d4f.jpg (http://attachment1.tgbusdata.cn/image/jpg/b4/bc/e9b70e694b21be2d9b0f369b3d4f.jpg)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/hotut/koukai4.jpg (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj248/hotut/koukai4.jpg)
http://www.freeforpsp.com/upload/201012/10122811322357.png (http://www.freeforpsp.com/upload/201012/10122811322357.png)

I think the style is more open to masculine designs than Ayami Kojima's, but retains the elegance.  Needs a gothic touch, though; the atmosphere of these works isn't right, obviously.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Ahasverus on December 06, 2012, 08:52:24 PM
If you think 2D can't be grandiose, I suggest you look at Harmony of Despair.
That's actually what I did before getting to that conclusion lol

Why guys why do you hate me :(
OF COURSE I like more 2D Castlevanias, OF COURSE I want retail sized 2D Castlevanias, only thing I don't want are Mainline entries, as, say, Mirror of Fate that is a direct sequel of the new main line,I think that's the worst possible move ever made by MercurySteam. I'd love the 2D games to have its own timeline or something like that, but I just don't think of a developer that has enough experience, resources and most importantly confidence in a 2D game to be "complete" enough to warrant the title of Mainline entry. The fact that Symphony was the last one in 15 years says something about the viability of that.

I'd LOVE to be wrong, of course.

Surprise me, Konami.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Neobelmont on December 07, 2012, 12:01:07 AM
HOHOHO awesome themes like this belong in a 2D CV game

Bloodrayne: Betrayal OST - Poisoned Halls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgZue4XHzE#ws)

Bloodrayne: Betrayal OST - Peaceful Moon (NES Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0fwtS3Ye7g#ws)


+1 for you uzo, lump of coal for Ahasverus  >:(
Hot girls with red hair also belong in castlevania



Why guys why do you hate me :(


No one hates ya  :)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Chernabogue on December 07, 2012, 12:30:30 AM
I kinda agree with Ahasverus on the fact the LoS did bring back Castlevania from the dead and gave it the place it deserved. With MercurySteam, the series would only be a few Pachislot games or one/two random titles (Encore of the Night, wtf). Hopefully, we got Harmony of Despair, which was, IMO, a great step forward: multiplayer (even if the all-recycled was a bit boring).

Sure, I'm all in for another 2D CV game. But not an IGA game with recycled sprites, manga style and akward story-telling. Let a team, like they did with MS, do it. But a team who did some great 2D games (the guys from Bloodrayne or Rayman Origins for instance).

However, I don't want the series to go back to onyl 2D games. I'd be happy if other VG teams make "their" version of CV, like MS did. I'd be happy other timelines, and with a few more games in the original/IGA timeline (1999 anyone?). But not with only one type of game. (And not Pachislot games!!)

Anyone can love or hate any CV title or type of game. We will never be all happy with only one (type of) game.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: TheCruelAngel on December 07, 2012, 09:00:22 AM
If we're talking about art style, Amano is too heavily associated with Final Fantasy.  Castlevania deserves a more unique look.

While Amano is generally associated with FF, I think more people recognize Nomura than Amano since VII and up have used him entirely (with the exception of a few) and are unfortunately the more popular FF titles. Not to mention Amano's work ingame has always been heavily interpreted to be better translated to the screen and a lot of his unique color and style is lost.

The closest we've actually gotten to a proper interpretation of Amano in a FF title is the FFIV remake for the DS, it's still heavily interpreted and not a 1:1 translation of this style.

So while yes, Amano is associated with FF, I feel he could lend a unique style to Castlevania and make it it's own. I mean, just look at his work for VHD and Guin Saga. The man knows how to do dark fantasy. But again, I could just be fanboy fantasizing and trying to hard...  ;D
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: A-Yty on December 07, 2012, 09:04:29 AM
Hot girls with red hair also belong in castlevania
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20081116072754%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff4%2FArtbook20.jpg&hash=17ff982cab2c322c8b62988447d9f03f)

Hell yes they do.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Sumac on December 07, 2012, 09:11:02 AM
Quote
If you think 2D can't be grandiose, I suggest you look at Harmony of Despair.
If anything this game is as far from "grandiose" as possible.

Quote
I kinda agree with Ahasverus on the fact the LoS did bring back Castlevania from the dead and gave it the place it deserved. With MercurySteam, the series would only be a few Pachislot games or one/two random titles (Encore of the Night, wtf). Hopefully, we got Harmony of Despair, which was, IMO, a great step forward: multiplayer (even if the all-recycled was a bit boring).
And somebody minused such an obvious statement...

@Ahasverus
As always you've managed to be a breath of fresh air. Keep going!!  ;)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Maedhros on December 07, 2012, 09:43:34 AM
And you still wonder why so many people hate your oppinions...
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Neobelmont on December 07, 2012, 03:48:38 PM


Hell yes they do.

Hell yes indeed we need more
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 07, 2012, 04:30:42 PM
That's actually what I did before getting to that conclusion lol

Why guys why do you hate me :(
OF COURSE I like more 2D Castlevanias, OF COURSE I want retail sized 2D Castlevanias, only thing I don't want are Mainline entries, as, say, Mirror of Fate that is a direct sequel of the new main line,I think that's the worst possible move ever made by MercurySteam. I'd love the 2D games to have its own timeline or something like that, but I just don't think of a developer that has enough experience, resources and most importantly confidence in a 2D game to be "complete" enough to warrant the title of Mainline entry. The fact that Symphony was the last one in 15 years says something about the viability of that.

I'd LOVE to be wrong, of course.

Surprise me, Konami.

It sounds like you backpedaled a bit.  No 2D Castlevania at all?!  Say you did not mean that.
URGH Please, no one bring up Harmony of Despair.  That game is bloody awful... having said that, I do agree that the 'stages', were largely-scoped.... though that's as far as I go with that.

No 2D Castlevania mainline series entries?  That's crazy talk.

In my opinion, Castlevania Rebirth was the true step in the right direction... even though technically it took steps waaaaay back to the old CV's with stage progression.

I think what people really want (based on a couple of good ideas mentioned in this forum over the years) are the the following:

1. Kickass memorable music to go with our vampire killing efforts.
It cannot just be 'good' music or even 'great' music.  I think the general populace wants the music to be 'kickass' music.  That is, music that, no matter what style it chooses to do, manages to earworm into your head way after you're doing playing the game.  It cannot be throwaway generic music,  it has to stick.  It doesn't really matter the style or the composer, but it has to be stuff that you're done, and you're like "mmmm...mmmmmMmmmm mMmm" in your head.  That kind of thing.  It's a little difficult to explain, but I can tell you that, while LoS had great music, it was not 'this' type of music.  Can you hum any of the LoS tunes except the music box?  On call?  If someone put a gun to your head right now and told you to hum the seventh stage's battle music, could you really do so?  However, tell anyone here to hum "Poison Mind" or something like that, and it'll be VERY difficult not to instantly recognize that tune.  Again, it's not the style of the music, or the composer... it's that it sticks.

2. Development that looks like it gives a damn.
This is where Harmony of Despair falls terribly short, and Castlevania: Rebirth (sort of) does better.  As many people here have mentioned, since Symphony of the Night the titles have started to just recycle sprites, which starts to scream 'lazy and shoddy'.  Harmony of Despair cranked this up to 11, with pretty much everything (except the music) being exact elements directly copied from previous games.  LoS (and Mirror of Fate, from the looks of it) actually did a great job here at having the production values high enough.  You played the game and, although you cannot recall much of the music, the locales were quite breathtaking.  Going to Malphas's Tower and crossing the Ruins of Agharta, or trudging through the Castle or even the otherwordly Necromancer's Abyss are stuff that looked proper, beautiful, and at the same time a touch scary.  So, good production values, and try not to recycle stuff.

3. The core game must include platforming.  Anything else is secondary or even tertiary.
Seems to be that Castlevania cannot be a flat affair.  From what the critics of titles like Curse of Darkness and Lament of Innocence say, long flat hallways and boxy rooms are not cool.  In the 2D titles it was somewhat more forgiveable because there either were platforms in the rooms, or enemies to break up the monotony but in the 3D titles, this is important.  The N64 titles and the LoS series did a fine job here (though LoS overdid it with wall climbing and it wasn't fun... at least, not "Assassin's Creed 'fun').  In the 2D games there were some instances where the long room/big room thing worked against the design (Portrait of Ruin with large rooms with little platforming, Harmony of Dissonance with large but only zig-zagging corridors).  Also, this is not Dynasty Warriors;  Not every room needs to be a battle of 1 vs. 20.  It is also not Final Fight; stop locking the door and forcing the player to defeat a horde of enemies before proceeding in every chamber.  Make tougher enemies, but put only a few in a room.  And 'toughness' comes in terms of attacking and attacking patterns, not just oodles of oodles of health (this is where Mirror of Fate worries me terribly).  But the core gameplay should be platforming, not battling.  And by platforming, it means jumping on platforms and interacting with the terrain, not just wall climbing, rope climbing, or whip-swinging. 

I think these are the three core aspects that most people can truly agree upon.
They also work whether the game created is a 2D title or a 3D title.

Again, this is an opinion, but one forged from years spent with you guys as a community.  I am also trying very hard not to be biased toward any one particular game, just noting the best aspects of the tiles so far.

Ahasverus:
People like some of the 2D titles, and there have been more of them that are considered 'good' than there have been 3D titles that have been considered 'good'.  So cutting out all forms of 2D gameplay, or reducing it to 'side stories' (which is what I think you're meaning to say?  Not sure, you flip-flopped there at the last moment) would clash against most people's opinions, so I can understand why you would get a few cringes from that statement.

Sumac:
Please do not fuel the flames.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Maedhros on December 07, 2012, 04:53:22 PM
The best thing Konami can do for the 2D Castlevanias is outsourcing it to other studios, seriously.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: DragonSlayr81 on December 07, 2012, 05:25:35 PM
The closest we've actually gotten to a proper interpretation of Amano in a FF title is the FFIV remake for the DS, it's still heavily interpreted and not a 1:1 translation of this style.

I think the closest we got was the Dissidia games, which were still stylized via Nomura, but really kept true to Amano's design of certain characters.

Original:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060224061853/finalfantasy/images/0/0d/FFOrigins_PAL_boxart.jpg (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060224061853/finalfantasy/images/0/0d/FFOrigins_PAL_boxart.jpg)

Nomura-rized design:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090407205803/finalfantasy/images/c/c6/Dissidia_Warrior_of_Light.png (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090407205803/finalfantasy/images/c/c6/Dissidia_Warrior_of_Light.png)

CG:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090917162746/finalfantasy/images/5/5b/Warrior_cg_render.png (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090917162746/finalfantasy/images/5/5b/Warrior_cg_render.png)

Original:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120724220630/finalfantasy/images/2/22/200px-Ff6_amano_tina.jpg (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120724220630/finalfantasy/images/2/22/200px-Ff6_amano_tina.jpg)

Nomura-ized design:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101110154921/finalfantasy/images/1/1d/Dissidia_Terra.png (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101110154921/finalfantasy/images/1/1d/Dissidia_Terra.png)

CG:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905215725/finalfantasy/images/1/12/DFF_Terra_Render.png (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905215725/finalfantasy/images/1/12/DFF_Terra_Render.png)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Phoenix7786 on December 09, 2012, 08:58:14 AM
What a relief it is to see a woman that ISN'T designed with completely over-sized breasts. It's getting to the point with a lot of these games where it's just getting insulting, but I don't want to de-rail this thread.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Sumac on December 09, 2012, 02:21:23 PM
Quote
Sumac:
Please do not fuel the flames.
I wasn't planing to do it anyway.
All this wishful leads nowhere, since only developers will decide what exactly they want to do with the game according, but not limited, to: costs, technology and trends.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on December 09, 2012, 08:36:14 PM
Nothing wrong with voicing the hopes.
Technically it's all pointless... and yet, it isn't.

History has shown that this community is not completely ignored by Konami's developers.

Do you propose we never say anything, ever?  That would make this a dull and quiet place.
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: TheCruelAngel on December 10, 2012, 09:59:46 AM
I think the closest we got was the Dissidia games, which were still stylized via Nomura, but really kept true to Amano's design of certain characters.
(click to show/hide)

I forgot about the Dissidia titles...but even then, through Nomura's filters I think the hard lines he gives the characters is kind of grating compared to the elegant flow of Amano. Do I think Nomura does a bad job of it? No. I think Nomura is very faithful to the original design, and you can tell he really respects Amano's work.

But I digress, it is pretty equivalent to Amano's original work, despite the hard lines of Nomura...though I think I still prefer the FFIV DS's interpretation of Cecil over Dissidia.'s XP

Amano:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KfOd-5as-qM/TeK5htnUAUI/AAAAAAAAANA/kiGxGo_jWIo/s1600/cecil2.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KfOd-5as-qM/TeK5htnUAUI/AAAAAAAAANA/kiGxGo_jWIo/s1600/cecil2.jpg)

FFIV DS CG:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dKpjcPLFmEQ/UEUe04vYKAI/AAAAAAAAQtk/pAvQX5Rl2zo/s1600/final+fantasy+iv+wallpaper.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dKpjcPLFmEQ/UEUe04vYKAI/AAAAAAAAQtk/pAvQX5Rl2zo/s1600/final+fantasy+iv+wallpaper.jpg)

Dissidia:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1433/777240-paladin_cecil.jpg (http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/1433/777240-paladin_cecil.jpg)
Title: Re: A GameInformer short article about Castlevania
Post by: Sumac on December 10, 2012, 11:23:10 AM
Quote
Do you propose we never say anything, ever?  That would make this a dull and quiet place.
Of course not. But sometimes, it looks like some people here, seriously think, that Konami must follow every of their single whims, completely ignoring all changes, that had happened in the game industry in the past decade.

Hope is good, but hope must have realistic foundation to begin with. Without it - it's just fantasy, that will never come true. By believing seriously in such fantasies those people doom themselves to big dissappointment and neccessity to went they anger on others who appreciated changes and had realistic expectations. In the end - having a clear border between your imaginary outcome and reality is much better. At least it hurt less, when dreams didn't come true.