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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: sannyclause on December 20, 2012, 07:30:55 AM

Title: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: sannyclause on December 20, 2012, 07:30:55 AM
HO HO HO when satan was revealed to be the main villain of los what did you think about, did you love it did you hate it, are you excited to see him again in LOS 2, comment below and let me know :)
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Chernabogue on December 20, 2012, 07:36:02 AM
HO HO HO You spoiled almost everyone who didn't finish LoS1.

On topic: at first, I hated him, as I wanted Dracula. Then, with more time and knowing more about the plot, I liked him a bit more. But I still prefer Dante's Inferno's Satan.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: VladCT on December 20, 2012, 07:56:21 AM
Quote from: Chernabogue on December 20, 2012, 07:36:02 AM
But I still prefer Dante's Inferno's Satan.
So you actually like his monstrous shlong in full view? :P
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: crisis on December 20, 2012, 08:01:01 AM
HO HO HO Satan being the last boss was leaked right before LoS was released, so i think it's common knowledge by now so the limitation on "spoiler" may have expired, imo of course

butt, Satan's presence in LoS kinda makes sense if you think about it. The LoS saga has been said to be from Dracula's perspective, and it shows how Dracula basicallu usurps Satan's throne for Hell, making him the new "Lord of Darkness." which is why Zobek says "Satan's acolytes are preparing for his return," because they're still loyal to him, the original fallen angel. Dracula's battling Satan's demons in LoS2 because they want revenge. That's how I understand it anyway.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Chernabogue on December 20, 2012, 08:10:34 AM
Quote from: VladCT on December 20, 2012, 07:56:21 AM
So you actually like his monstrous shlong in full view? :P
Yeah. Except THAT thing.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Claimh Solais on December 20, 2012, 08:46:13 AM
Like all others, I legitimately believed Jason Isaacs would be doing the voice of Dracula, who would have been the final boss of LoS.

However, upon discovering it was Satan, I was like, "...Ooooookaaaaay..." and didn't really expect much. But after reaching that point in the game, and hearing Isaacs' performance, I was wowed. And not to mention that it was an incredible boss fight (but nothing compared to the Silver Knight).

Overall, I think his inclusion was a plus, though I would have liked it if they gave some foreshadowing of his presence somewhere in the storyline.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: flyingchai on December 20, 2012, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: Claimh Solais on December 20, 2012, 08:46:13 AM
Like all others, I legitimately believed Jason Isaacs would be doing the voice of Dracula, who would have been the final boss of LoS.

Overall, I think his inclusion was a plus, though I would have liked it if they gave some foreshadowing of his presence somewhere in the storyline.

Oh hooooooo, but they did.

Before meeting his end, Abbott Dorin told Gabriel and Zobek that they were demons who were working for The Devil and that The Devil told him that they would be coming. His ramblings turned out to be not-so-crazy.
And then of course Baba Yaga told Gabriel that her master, "The King of the Angels" told her that he would be coming, which got Zobek super nervous.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Melanicus on December 20, 2012, 09:08:47 AM
Quote from: Chernabogue on December 20, 2012, 07:36:02 AM
HO HO HO You spoiled almost everyone who didn't finish LoS1.

On topic: at first, I hated him, as I wanted Dracula. Then, with more time and knowing more about the plot, I liked him a bit more. But I still prefer Dante's Inferno's Satan.

I prefer LoS's. Yeah, in Dante's Inferno he's more traditional looking and visually impressive, but in LoS he acts more like I would expect. In Dante's Inferno Satan comes across as kind of whiny ("...and then he created YOU in His image..and I was supposed to bow down to YOU!?"), and pretty much begs not to be put back in his "prison". In LoS he's still acting like a dick when he's badly wounded and Gabriel has him in a chokehold, and commands that Gabriel release him, knowing God's probably about to send him back to hell. I think in LoS he's a much better villan.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Kingshango on December 20, 2012, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: flyingchai on December 20, 2012, 08:59:44 AM
Oh hooooooo, but they did.

Before meeting his end, Abbott Dorin told Gabriel and Zobek that they were demons who were working for The Devil and that The Devil told him that they would be coming. His ramblings turned out to be not-so-crazy.
And then of course Baba Yaga told Gabriel that her master, "The King of the Angels" told her that he would be coming, which got Zobek super nervous.

And don't forget Cornell mentioned that the brotherhood founders were trying to defeat Satan and his army. Im guessing most people forgot about it because they mention him very early on and very little throughout the game ( like a grand total of three times. )
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: A-Yty on December 20, 2012, 10:17:33 AM
He was cheesy and clichéd. And I simply can't take someone wearing black smoke underpants seriously.

Overall, time has done serious damage to Satan as a villain or a personification of evil. Of course it could be argued if he was ever actually meant as one anyway. As a character I prefer him as someone working so far behind the shadows he's hardly mentioned. Or that he has a hell of a lot better things to do than petty bad things or dreams of world domination. The antiheroic or neutral type is the type of Satan I like.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Claimh Solais on December 20, 2012, 10:32:12 AM
Quote from: flyingchai on December 20, 2012, 08:59:44 AM
Oh hooooooo, but they did.

Before meeting his end, Abbott Dorin told Gabriel and Zobek that they were demons who were working for The Devil and that The Devil told him that they would be coming. His ramblings turned out to be not-so-crazy.
And then of course Baba Yaga told Gabriel that her master, "The King of the Angels" told her that he would be coming, which got Zobek super nervous.

I thought "The King of the Angels" was referring to Pan.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Flame on December 20, 2012, 11:30:26 AM
 I thought it was about time he showed up in the franchise. We already went to hell in DoS, it was only logical to go the next step.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Heuss on December 20, 2012, 11:44:23 AM
Cine de Warrior - The Killing of Satan - Dracula Filipino contra El Tio La Vara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRk2D_9Q8tA#)
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Bergaron on December 20, 2012, 01:13:20 PM
Ermmm i prefer LOS Satan... and this classic..

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw210%2Fspookieweasel%2FMySpace%2F2c36ff4d.jpg&hash=ea4a538de0f0f9effc750f3348213a09)
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Heuss on December 20, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
Satan is now part of the universe of Castlevania's creatures

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-23/cmof-library-statue.html (http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-23/cmof-library-statue.html)

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.creativeuncut.com%2Fgallery-23%2Fart%2Fcmof-library-statue.jpg&hash=340ad700950f37193566ecd7bfa2759c)

Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 20, 2012, 03:15:38 PM
I was pretty neutral regarding the idea of Satan being the big bad at first.  At least, until I learned that Gabriel was going to become Dracula.  Also, the idea that we will be playing as Dracula in LoS2 and likely fight Satan as Dracula is kind of exciting.  I mean two dark entities fighting each other to become the Lord of Darkness and lead the forces of evil against God.  Come on, super powerful vampire versus fallen angel.  I couldn't think of a more epic battle.  Let's just hope that Mercury Stream doesn't screw it up.  I can't wait to play as an evil character for once.  Fighting on the side of good in the service of God is overrated and boring. 

Screw God!!!  Darkness is cool!!!
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Esco on December 20, 2012, 04:07:49 PM
First let me say that I loved Lords of shadow, and thought it was a VERY interesting spin on the classic castlevania games mythology.

Now as for the version of satan they used: he was not only LAME, but very easy to beat even on the HARDEST setting. He didn't even have a second form.

I expected something like out of Dante's inferno, or even Devil May Cry (Mundus was just an AWESOME boss, and he is their equivalent of Satan) and instead got a plain looking model surrounded by some dark energy. And on top of all this, he barely had any cool attacks at all. Just boring generic stuff for the most part and colored rings. **YAWN**

Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: darkwzrd4 on December 20, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
Quote from: Esco on December 20, 2012, 04:07:49 PM
First let me say that I loved Lords of shadow, and thought it was a VERY interesting spin on the classic castlevania games mythology.

Now as for the version of satan they used: he was not only LAME, but very easy to beat even on the HARDEST setting. He didn't even have a second form.

I expected something like out of Dante's inferno, or even Devil May Cry (Mundus was just an AWESOME boss, and he is their equivalent of Satan) and instead got a plain looking model surrounded by some dark energy. And on top of all this, he barely had any cool attacks at all. Just boring generic stuff for the most part and colored rings. **YAWN**
Yeah, it was kind of lame.  It was almost move-for-move the exact same as the fight with the silver warrior (Pan).  Satan should have had more powers we shouldn't have had infinite magic.  Hell, Gabriel had more powers and skills than Satan.  That's disappointing.  I like the idea of countering light magic with shadow magic and shadow magic with light magic, but the battle could have been so much more.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Heuss on December 20, 2012, 05:38:32 PM
Quote from: Esco on December 20, 2012, 04:07:49 PM
First let me say that I loved Lords of shadow, and thought it was a VERY interesting spin on the classic castlevania games mythology.

Now as for the version of satan they used: he was not only LAME, but very easy to beat even on the HARDEST setting. He didn't even have a second form.

I expected something like out of Dante's inferno, or even Devil May Cry (Mundus was just an AWESOME boss, and he is their equivalent of Satan) and instead got a plain looking model surrounded by some dark energy. And on top of all this, he barely had any cool attacks at all. Just boring generic stuff for the most part and colored rings. **YAWN**

Something like the Forgotten One? Dracul is more powerful than Gabriel, Because he has the powers of Forgotten One
Satan could not with Grabiel, much less with Dracul

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Resurrection (Ending) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK9U1NszGa4#ws)

Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Kingshango on December 20, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
That's one thing I didn't like about Satan in LOS, he was awfully weak for the ruler of hell and all. But as his beastiary stated, his power is greatly limited on Earth due to being chained in Hell and did not expect Gabriel to life with infinite magic. Still they should have made him tougher with more interesting attacks.

When he comes back in LOS2 (at this point he's most likely gonna be the final boss again), he better unchain himself and bring hell to Earth cause I want a no holds barred battle between Dracula and Satan next time, with final forms for the both of them. Just picture Satan transforming into his true form and then Dracula transforming as well, that shit would be amazing.

Oh and while I didn't like his in game model(it looked plain tbh) I did like his artwork and that he actually  looked like a fallen angel. Just hope they put as much effort into his design next time and just don't give him black smoke pants, at least put a loincloth on him, Dracula did (see the CG trailer).
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: crisis on December 20, 2012, 06:15:34 PM
HO HO HO is it confirm that's a statue of Satan in the first LoS2 trailer? i mean it loox like him but did Cox actually confirm it? Dragon put Satan on crucifix statue in his chamber?

I just thought it was weird when Dragon gave Satan this whole spiel on how God still loves Satan & we should all seek forgiveness, then a couple hours later he forgets all that & becomes vampire. Dragon contradicted himself, or poor writing on the developer's part.

Butt I can't wait to play as Dragon in LoStwo too, i just hope there won't be a QTE when he's biting his enemies. And Kingshango when you say Satan artwork do you mean the in-game?
(click to show/hide)

or this?
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120816110018%2Fcastlevania%2Fimages%2F8%2F8d%2FUnholy-One.jpg&hash=058e3747f49656c1ee964525b81984d6)


i don't think Satan will be last boss again, i think MercurySteam got something unique planned for last boss, Dragon will no doubt fight Satan, but Belmont must fight Dragon.


Off-Topic: what if Mark Hamill dies before Episode VII is released  :-[
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Inccubus on December 20, 2012, 06:47:10 PM
I thought then and I still think now, that I hate the misnomer. Satan isn't Lucifer and vice versa. The last boss of LoS is most definitely Lucifer.
Other than that I didn't much like how he was handled. He's written pretty, meh. And the whole manipulator behind the curtain thing has been done to death. That whole set up really diminished both He and Zobek as big-bads.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Heuss on December 20, 2012, 06:58:32 PM
There are many legends of mortal men who managed to defeat Satan.

Lucifer = King of Angels
Satan = King of Hell

Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Inccubus on December 20, 2012, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: Heuss on December 20, 2012, 06:58:32 PM
There are many legends of mortal men who managed to defeat Satan.

Lucifer = King of Angels
Satan = King of Hell

The Satan is only mentioned a couple of times in the Old Testament/Tanakh. He's an angel God has sent to earth to test certain humans. His title means the adversary as in a prosecutor in a trial so to speak. Also, The Satan is never equated to Lucifer at any point in any original scripture neither implicitly or explicitly.
And, on a side note, Lucifer isn't the Serpent either.
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: Kingshango on December 20, 2012, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: Santa Clisis on December 20, 2012, 06:15:34 PM
HO HO HO is it confirm that's a statue of Satan in the first LoS2 trailer? i mean it loox like him but did Cox actually confirm it? Dragon put Satan on crucifix statue in his chamber?

I thought it was a regular statue at first but then I noticed the angel wings on the back, plus having Satan crucified in his chambers would act as a reminder of his victory against him. Either that or he fought another angel with long hair again.

Quote from:
I just thought it was weird when Dragon gave Satan this whole spiel on how God still loves Satan & we should all seek forgiveness, then a couple hours later he forgets all that & becomes vampire. Dragon contradicted himself, or poor writing on the developer's part.

A bit of both prolly. But when you think about it, he gave that speech thinking he was gonna get his wife back and all that good stuff but it didn't happen. As a result, he started questioning his faith in God and what he really said back then was nothing. Well that's what I got outta that whole thing.  :-\

Quote from:
And Kingshango when you say Satan artwork do you mean the in-game?
(click to show/hide)


That's the one, much better than what we got in game imo.

Quote from:
i don't think Satan will be last boss again, i think MercurySteam got something unique planned for last boss, Dragon will no doubt fight Satan, but Belmont must fight Dragon.

Here's how I think it's gonna go down:

Dracula will fight Belmont near the end of the game, they fight but the battle is interupted. (This is where I draw a blank)
Dracula goes on and reaches Satan and they fight multiple times, Satan is defeated.
Zobek returns and offers to end Dracula's eternal suffering.
Then suddenly, CHOICE TIME! Let Zobek free you or refuse and fight him.
Accept: Dracula is free and game ends roll credits
Refuse: Dracula declines and decided if anyone is going to kill me, it's my kin.
Zobek get's pissed and transforms into his Death form, complete with a badass scythe.
Dracula defeats Zobek and absorbs his power to control his Death, thus giving him the power to permanantly die if he chooses to.
Belmont appears once more and he and Dracula do a dramatic staredown and exchange a few words
Final boss: Belmont

I'll let you decided the ending to that.

Of course none of this could happen but eh. (Although I we do get to beat Zobek's face in.)

Quote from:
Off-Topic: what if Mark Hamill dies before Episode VII is released  :-[
I hope not. :(
Title: Re: HO HO HO thoughts about satan
Post by: crisis on December 21, 2012, 12:29:36 PM
HO HO HO another thing that bugs me are the God and Devil masks; they weren't really clear on what their true purpose was, or those plot points were executed poorly. As I understand it the God Mask makes you "God's vassal on Earth," yet all it truly did was make ghosts appear more visible (Marie became "solid" when Gabriel put it on, and he was still stronger than Satan even with the mask on, despite it containing "Holy Power." People might argue that Satan is an evil being thus he cannot use the God Mask to his benefit, yet he was still capable of using Light & Dark magic so that just doesn't make sense. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.)

Then there's the Devil Mask, which to my knowledge only makes the wearer do things he doesn't wanna do or unaware of. It only served to help Zobek "transform," which he didn't even need to do in the first place (due to what he is and represents).

I think they just wanted a plot device similar to the Ebony & Crimson Stones from LoI, except those served a more clear purpose, imo