Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: DingusBelmondo on June 06, 2010, 06:23:01 PM
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It just seems like people are too lazy to create detailed 2D sprites and art, and too lazy to construct a full in depth 3D game. Honestly I don't know what the craze is. I much prefer beautiful artwork in games like Muramasa the Demon Blade or full epic 3D worlds.
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I would agree with you, but without 2.5D, I'm far more confident in the efforts they've shown in 2.5D than 2D which is just full of style-clashes, bad shading, and etc. And we wouldn't have the awesome waterfall segment in DXC if it was redone in 2D. And while, Muramasa is beautiful, such a style wouldn't fit Castlevania in my opinion what with its paperish storybook style of animation. But without that style of animation, doing a game in that style just seems impractical.
It seems that in the higher res 2D games that still retain a pixel art aesthetic, that they begin to eschew the principles of pixel art, most commonly shading like in the newer KOF sprites. Or they also tend to not be as animated or are more choppy as shown in Guilty Gear (it too ditches more sophisticated shading for simplistic cell shading).
So...
I rather they go with 2.5D, it also has the added bonus bringing an astonishing new level of depth in backgrounds that could not be replicated in 2D. It also seems all the more practical and I doubt IGA would reuse as much if he focused on a 2.5D style but that's just speculation on my part~
As for them being too lazy to construct a full depth 3D game, I could care less since they seem too lazy to construct more than boxes and hallways in full depth 3D games anyway, heh.
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To answer your question; yes.
Obviously 2.5D can have many more benefits than strictly 2D. See also Shadow Complex.
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the big allure of 2.5d is the fact that you get all the bonuses of workin with full 3d with the styles and gameplay afforded by classic 2d. Its 10x easier to make 1 model and 10 different textures than it is to make 10 different full sets of sprites
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I like 2.5D quite a bit. It just depends on how it's done. I mean, a straight up 3D game is probably better most of the time, but a 2.5D is good in it's own right.
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I think I've just always been a sucker for hand drawn. Pixar is the only CGI/studio that can make animated films I find as thrilling to view as Miyazaki's work, because they put time into making everything so detailed. And Miyazaki, like Castlevania (in some cases) and Metal Slug have absolutely astounding attention to detail in their backgrounds, and It's hard for me to see that being captured with 3D
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I only like sprite work when it's actual sprite-work. When it's going the route of almost pre-rendered world, I'm not a fan. I totally dislike pre-rendered games. I always have(which is funny, because I recall when a lot of games for PS1 started doing the whole pre-rendered thing, everybody was raving over how highly detailed pre-rendered graphics look, but I always thought they looked too static and tacky. I always saw it like scanning a work of art into the computer, then having an animated sprite walk back and forth in front of it. Oooh, look, the sprite's walking in front of painted trees and stuff! BEAUTIFUL. Nah, I could never get past that illusion. It would always seem like sprites and polygonal models interacting in fake space with static rendered backgrounds that are just there for looks. That's why I I always preferred just sprite games where even the backgrounds are made from sprite tiles, or all out fully immersive 3D world where everything moves with you.
Interestingly enough, I DO like 2.5D games.
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I'm one of those guys who like the pre render stuff... you are talking about I think. Like... hmm, Odin Sphere. If that is what you're talking about, I love it.
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I like both 2D and 2.5D and I've been playing Rocket Knight on XBLA and it's pretty decent.
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"2.5D" is pretty neat, especially when the games don't strictly move from left to right. I mean, mechanically they still do—the play control is still the same, essentially—but the foreground can bend and curve and do all sorts of cool stuff, that makes it very fascinating.
However, a console sprite game would be awesome for Castlevania. Higher resolution has rendered pixel art almost impossible (unless the artists are insane and really want to put THAT MUCH effort and detail into the art), but there's no reason they couldn't do digitally-drawn art a la Muramasa, as you mentioned. Although obviously a much different drawing style would be needed for a Castlevania game. Though I fear they'd go for a very shiny, plasticky style, much like most current anime; the colors and lighting just look awful in most new anime I've seen clips of, and they sure like to blast the image with lots of really poor glare effect, but it seems to be the popular thing to do. Digital art doesn't have to look so artificial; you look at Miyazaki's more recent stuff, particularly Ponyo on the Cliff, and you see how traditional-looking his films are. It's a style, it's an aesthetic, and one a lot of people in the animation field don't really seem to hold on to these days.
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Obviously 2.5D can have many more benefits than strictly 2D. See also Shadow Complex.
Except Shadow Complex actually fucks up 2.5D something hardcore, and can never quite tell the difference between when you're trying to aim at some enemy in the backdrop or straight up at the ceiling.
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2.5D isn't as visually satisfying as 2D. I love sprites/pixel art, and I wish developers stopped refusing to use them. Pixels will never die.
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its not that ppl refuse. Its just that it makes more sense and takes less time which means less money to produce 2.5d games than it does actual 2d. I mean unless your specifically goin for that style then your plannin it from the beginnin but that doesnt mean its gonna be any faster or cost any less just because the game was planned to be actual sprites
But these days companies that still make actual 2d games arent usin sprites theyre usin hand drawn 2d art either digital or hand drawn. The only actual sprite games that have come out in the last few years have been low budget or fan games. The other games have been 2d art like Muramasa Odin Sphere and BlazBlue or actually 3d like Street Fighter and Shadow Complex
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I love Street Fighter IV's use of 2.5D. 2D battles with really nice, highly detailed 3D models. You get full 3D special move effects when you pull them off, and it looks spectacular. I always wanted a CV game to do something like that. It was a dream of mine, but I had this idea where you'd be playing through a CV game and it's totally highly detailed 2.5D, then, you come to a door in the background(which, frankly, you see in various CV games as background decor) and you press up(like in CV2) and perspective changes to 3rd person view as the camera swings around and your character enters the door and into a 3D corridor, battling through inner halls and tunnels, up staircases, and such.
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But these days companies that still make actual 2d games arent usin sprites theyre usin hand drawn 2d art either digital or hand drawn. The only actual sprite games that have come out in the last few years have been low budget or fan games. The other games have been 2d art like Muramasa Odin Sphere and BlazBlue or actually 3d like Street Fighter and Shadow Complex
"Pixel art" and "sprite" should not be confused. A sprite doesn't have to be pixel-drawn; the pre-rendered CG models in the Donkey Kong Country series are sprites, as are the digitally-drawn characters and so on in Muramasa. And pixel art isn't strictly used for making sprites; older video games and some today (like the DS Castlevania games) have pixel-drawn backgrounds, etc.
I could go into it further, but it would be easier just to link to Wikipedia's article on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_%28computer_graphics%29).
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yes thats all fine and good but the minute I woulda said the art in demons blade or odin sphere was sprite some wise ass woulda posted about how it wasnt sprites it was hand drawn art work... You cant win with symatics in stuff like this
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Or, you could just educate them and call 'em out on their idiocy if they try to be a wise-ass about it. :P
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Klonoa, Strider 2, Ultimate G'n'G and Tombi 2 would like a word with this thread...
But really, I do prefer traditional 2D, but there are some incredible 2.5D games out there. I do hope they stick with traditional 2D for Castlevania though. The 2,5D in DXC seemed unnecessary.
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Except Shadow Complex actually fucks up 2.5D something hardcore, and can never quite tell the difference between when you're trying to aim at some enemy in the backdrop or straight up at the ceiling.
The bright red aiming laser pointer wasn't enough of a hint for you?
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I have no real problems with 2.5D games but I'll always have a heart for my good ol' fashoned 2D.
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