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Offline theplottwist

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Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« on: March 30, 2017, 11:47:43 AM »
+4
Hello Dungeon. This will be my second huge-ass article trying to explain an aspect of the series with evidence in an effort to further enrich our understanding of specific imagery and symbolism on the games we love. For reference, my previous one was trying to unravel Saint Germain, and although I believe it could get a touch up, I still think it gives a pretty nice idea of the general concept.
 
But today isn't Germain's day. Today I'm talking of Chaos. More specifically, Chaos' first form:
 

I will be trying to demonstrate what exactly is Soma Cruz fighting on the first round against Aria of Sorrow's final boss. Also, I should credit Dracula9 who has co-written the reasoning behind this whole thing.
 
HUGE text ahead, be warned.
 
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 01:49:59 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline Foffy

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 03:17:13 PM »
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Fascinating post, friend. I am intrigued with how you explained the Buddhistic connection, though as someone personally familiar with Zen, I've noticed a few interesting things as I pondered on your post.

One of the realizations of any discipline of Buddhism is emptiness of form, which is to say, the lack of a vitalistic "fixed" entity like a self or ego. In a sense, this plays into the Dracula/Soma connection, because the powers of Dracula when passed to Soma are "empty" in that they don't carry the malice and evil Dracula had when in use: Soma largely uses them to deal with the threats he encounters, but doesn't use them as a means to eliminate humanity. All that transferred was the process, or in this case, the power Dracula had to Soma. It's all of Dracula's tools, but not Dracula's soul, in which was the mechanism that used those tools for hatred of humanity.

Another thing I've pondered is the imagery with the moon. Another key aspect of Buddhism is "nonduality" which, if I were to use secular words, is to describe an interconnected, interdependent, innate reality. What is in reality is of reality, and not disconnected or separated. You can perhaps see this theme with Soma and accepting his role as the inheritor to Dracula's powers, to Julius' connection and "calling" to the castle, to Soma having to deal with Chaos all as themes that the characters in play are not separate from their calling, from their "karma," for what they must do. They are not isolated or disconnected from the conflict in the game who are there by happenstance. You could use the word "destiny" if this helps.

However, the imagery with the man and the moon reminds me of a quote about the finger and the moon, which I'd like to share...

Quote
“Truth has nothing to do with words. Truth can be likened to the bright moon in the sky. Words, in this case, can be likened to a finger. The finger can point to the moon’s location. However, the finger is not the moon. To look at the moon, it is necessary to gaze beyond the finger.


― Hui-Neng

The quote is a "pointer" in contemplative efforts, but I feel the quote and the game showing imagery of a man and a moon is more to highlight that Soma is not subservient to the same ways of engagement as Dracula, where he does not have to live and act with malice, and that in a sense, can transcend that "cycle" of hatred and violence. Soma is not Dracula, and can escape that cycle by facing Chaos, which attempts to force Soma into being the "rebirth" of Dracula if he loses.

Hope my rambling was of interest, for I find the topic here fascinating. Much like "pointers" in Buddhism, a topic like this is helping us see what clearly has been in front of us for perhaps the first time that we've deeply overlooked.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 05:44:16 PM »
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I'd like to just point out one thing in particular (which generates much confusion over here):

All that transferred was the process, or in this case, the power Dracula had to Soma. It's all of Dracula's tools, but not Dracula's soul, in which was the mechanism that used those tools for hatred of humanity.

Soma's soul is that of Dracula's, which is that of Mathias. Soma inherited Dracula's power of Dominance AND his soul, but not his will. This is important to point out because a lot of people don't understand the concept of the soul without the will. Even though this soul still possesses all of Dracula's memories (which Dmitrii Blinov was able to scan) and his power, it is free from the evil will spawned from Dracula's dabbling with Chaos.

Dracula's will, dubbed by Aria as "evil spirit", is the thing that drives Dracula's tools, as you put, to be used for evil. This evil spirit is what made Dracula revive as a maniac after SotN up until 1999 even if he had already repented at the ending of SotN.
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2017, 01:22:42 AM »
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Cool! I knew you're gonna make a topic following a translation request. :)

I think you are the only person who read Ricordanza lots of times. Did you catch any weird parts? Do I need to edit the translation?

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2017, 02:47:20 AM »
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Cool! I knew you're gonna make a topic following a translation request. :)

I think you are the only person who read Ricordanza lots of times. Did you catch any weird parts? Do I need to edit the translation?

You once told me that this translation was done literally so I believe that there is nothing to be changed. Many people dislike its writting because its too obtuse -- and I kinda agree. I had to read it a couple times to figure out who was saying what or what they were referring to. Sometimes a character is responding to another and it feels like they're speaking of something completelly unrelated to the question or context but, again, after re-readings I entered the "mindset" of the author (and your translation) and understood what those sections meant. Nagumo's explanation of how Japanese structure works also helps you understand the text.

So, in respect to keeping it as close as to the author's intention as possible, I would say that no, don't change anything unless you think there is something really mistranslated. I don't fully understand Japanese (I can only discern and read a very small bit of the katakana) so I'd not be able to tell if there is something mistranslated.

Sometimes I'm able to tell if something is mistranslated/the idea is lost on translation on the translation alone (IGA's Double Jump interview is such one very egregious example). But this doesn't seem to be the case on your text.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 02:50:41 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 03:05:38 AM »
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You once told me that this translation was done literally so I believe that there is nothing to be changed. Many people dislike its writting because its too obtuse -- and I kinda agree. I had to read it a couple times to figure out who was saying what or what they were referring to. Sometimes a character is responding to another and it feels like they're speaking of something completelly unrelated to the question or context but, again, after re-readings I entered the "mindset" of the author (and your translation) and understood what those sections meant. Nagumo's explanation of how Japanese structure works also helps you understand the text.

So, in respect to keeping it as close as to the author's intention as possible, I would say that no, don't change anything unless you think there is something really mistranslated. I don't fully understand Japanese (I can only discern and read a very small bit of the katakana) so I'd not be able to tell if there is something mistranslated.

Sometimes I'm able to tell if something is mistranslated/the idea is lost on translation on the translation alone (IGA's Double Jump interview is such one very egregious example). But this doesn't seem to be the case on your text.

Thanks. :)

Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2017, 07:51:00 AM »
0
Cracking post. well put indeed, as this think is always helpful to understand the more hidden parts of CV. shame IGA never made a third game staring  Soma.
Can I ask, was it always Omnia Vanitas, or was it called Shikisokuzeku in Japan

And on a side note just got The Hardcore Gaming 101 Presents: Castlevania.  And Gutted to see that
 Umbra of Sorrow Or Last light   was not present  anywhere, as they talked about other fan projects.
 
As for a time I really thought that it was a sounding board for a Real CV game, as the work put in to it really, really blows one away, and I really think it deserves to be put in something like a Book about Castlevania, as I just saw your new art work. I mean F**** it looks like there  from an  official  game... will there be a fan game of this, as would play/ pay for that over.
blood-stained.
As far as i'm concerned UoS  IS apart of the cannon timeline.

But on topic, This was outstanding helpful and interesting, and well made.
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Offline Foffy

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2017, 02:33:48 PM »
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Cracking post. well put indeed, as this think is always helpful to understand the more hidden parts of CV. shame IGA never made a third game staring  Soma.
Can I ask, was it always Omnia Vanitas, or was it called Shikisokuzeku in Japan

And on a side note just got The Hardcore Gaming 101 Presents: Castlevania.  And Gutted to see that
 Umbra of Sorrow Or Last light   was not present  anywhere, as they talked about other fan projects.
 
As for a time I really thought that it was a sounding board for a Real CV game, as the work put in to it really, really blows one away, and I really think it deserves to be put in something like a Book about Castlevania, as I just saw your new art work. I mean F**** it looks like there  from an  official  game... will there be a fan game of this, as would play/ pay for that over.
blood-stained.
As far as i'm concerned UoS  IS apart of the cannon timeline.

But on topic, This was outstanding helpful and interesting, and well made.

Sorry to pivot from the main topic at hand, but I have two remarks to offer here.

- What is Last Light? o:
- Umbra is likely not mentioned by HG101 because the book came out years ago. Umbra started work as a fangame with a game engine last year, IIRC.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2017, 09:49:03 PM »
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Sorry to pivot from the main topic at hand, but I have two remarks to offer here.

- What is Last Light? o:
- Umbra is likely not mentioned by HG101 because the book came out years ago. Umbra started work as a fangame with a game engine last year, IIRC.

"Last Light" is the name of a track on Umbra of Sorrow that is available on Youtube. He probably mistook it for the project's name.

Can I ask, was it always Omnia Vanitas, or was it called Shikisokuzeku in Japan

It was indeed always called "Shikisokuzeku." The translation equivalent of this idea is the Bible's "Omnia Vanitas"

Quote
As far as i'm concerned UoS  IS apart of the cannon timeline.

Thank you for the consideration of the project. It's nice to see that there's a lot of people betting on us to make this story happen.

But I have to say that, as much as we're trying, this project is can't be considered canon. We will try our best to make this as closest as everyone is expecting the Demon Castle War to be (and, if I may be so bold, I'd say we're suceeding), but ultimatelly it's only a fan project and can't be considered canon.
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 01:01:42 AM »
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But I have to say that, as much as we're trying, this project is can't be considered canon. We will try our best to make this as closest as everyone is expecting the Demon Castle War to be (and, if I may be so bold, I'd say we're suceeding), but ultimatelly it's only a fan project and can't be considered canon.

Yeah. Once it is considered canon, the suits at Konami would come knocking.

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2017, 01:40:39 AM »
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I prefer to think of it as the ultimate headcanon.

We're working to ensure everything technically-situated within the canon is adhered to and what new material we come up with fits as snugly in there as possible, but more importantly we're working to retain and expand on the feel that made us all fall in love with the series.

This to us is much like what the final boss of Dark Souls 3 was to the Souls community--a love letter of grand proportions.


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Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Essay on Chaos -- What Does Its First Form Mean?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 12:07:16 PM »
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"Last Light" is the name of a track on Umbra of Sorrow that is available on Youtube. He probably mistook it for the project's name.

It was indeed always called "Shikisokuzeku." The translation equivalent of this idea is the Bible's "Omnia Vanitas"

Thank you for the consideration of the project. It's nice to see that there's a lot of people betting on us to make this story happen.

But I have to say that, as much as we're trying, this project is can't be considered canon. We will try our best to make this as closest as everyone is expecting the Demon Castle War to be (and, if I may be so bold, I'd say we're suceeding), but ultimatelly it's only a fan project and can't be considered canon.

Yeah silly me I thought  that the album name to the UoS OST, and silly me again I saw that the book was done in 2014 so, yeah. But yes must say that UoS is really amazing looking. 
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