Topic: What if they rebooted Lords of Shadow?

[Nagumo]

Yes, you've read that right: a reboot of a reboot.

This bizarre idea got into my head due to two things:

1) The announcement of that new Pachinko that's based on LoS but also features elements from earlier Castlevania games, such as going with a more traditional design for the Succubus and remixes of old tracks.

2) The rumours that were floating around about three years that Konami was interested in continuing the LoS series even though MercurySteam wanted to move on and do something different.

Of course, returning to the old continuity or creating an entirely new storyline would be my prefered way of  continuing the series. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world, so let's assume the management of Konami wants to continue banking on the LoS name. However, because Cox and friends are no longer around (good riddance) they return of the series back to one of their internal development teams. "Lords of Shadow" has to be slapped on the cover but they are given free reign to do whatever they want.

Let's assume further this development takes this opportunity to retool the LoS universe in such a way that this time it actually stays true to the spirit of the Castlevania series. Basically a "director's cut" that removes all the dumb elements and adds back the elements that makes the Castlevania unique.  I thought of a couple of things they could do:

First of all, they should sweep the previous LoS games under the rug by designating the LoS games made by MercurySteam to their own seperate universe  so they are not tied down by their garbage storylines. No stupid things like Satan, Castlevania City, giant robots attacking Dracula's castle, etc.  In other words, take this opportunity to start as fresh as possible. Take a couple of characters and rewrite the story in order to make it more suitable for the series. I suppose they still have to incorporate characters that fulfill the role of "Lords of Shadow". However, this time give each of them their own castle or have inhabit different parts of one huge castle. That way, the structure of the game follows that of a more traditional Castlevania game. Seperate the character of Dracula from Gabriel and make him resemble his past incarnations more.

Secondly, ditch the orchestral soundtrack and hire a more suitable composer this time. I doubt many people would disagree with me on this.

Thirdly, replace the generic enemies and bosses with a more interesting roster of foes or give them more interesting redesigns. There are a lot of cool and unique monsters from past games to choose from.

So basically this thread is a blend of "what-if?" and "how would you fix the the LoS series?". How would you react if Konami would do such a thing? What kind of things would you like to see improved in a "LoS remix" game.         

[AlexCalvo]

I've often thought about how easy LoS could have been made into a game that fit into the existing universe.  It's actually shocking how little would have to change, for the first LoS at least.  That is how I would like to see it done.

Set the game sometime between Leon and Trevor, maybe the 13th century.
The brotherhood of light is a holy order just as it is in the LoS games, maybe it was started by a Belmont.
Gabriel could be like the great grandson of the founder.
Make the Lords of Shadow all dark lord candidates vying for the title.
Satan tricks death into helping him actually steal the title of Dark Lord after manipulating Gabriel into killing the other candidates.
Gabriel manages to stop Satan, leaving the title of Dark Lord open/Satan is Dark Lord before Dracula, and is killed by Gabriel.

Make Gabriel the Belmont who becomes so powerful that people start to fear the Belmont's, leading to their exile.  He's the Belmont who takes the step from Van Helsing/Solomon Kane type hunter into the Achilles/Hercules level super warrior.

Keep Dracula in the post credits, but it's Mathias, monitoring the Belmonts' progress from afar, possibly just having taken the title of Dracula.

Other than that, I would do a lot of what you said.  More varied/interesting enemies.  More Castlevania appropriate environments.  I would also lean less on the high fantasy vibe, but not completely, as I think it is a viable avenue to explore in the series, though not one I would like to see as a central focus going forward.

Oh, and stop killing off interesting supporting characters as soon as possible.  I couldn't believe how many missed opportunities we had in story telling because mercury storm couldn't hold off killing anyone besides Gabriel and Zobek for more then ten minutes.

[zangetsu468]

The problem with canonising LOS is that in this series, Gabriel is Dracula. Back in the day you had to deal with theories that "Gabriel became Mathias became Dracula"  . If Gabriel is no longer Dracula, it's not LOS imho, because that was the main factor that set it apart from the original CV. Gabriel is that antihero and having him not be that seems like a cheap way to reuse his character, not that it really matters but why not just have a brand new protagonist?

[AlexCalvo]

Not really... It happened in a post-credit scene, then was elaborated on in a DLC.  I know that is an important factor in later LoS games, mostly 2.  So I would have no problem ignoring that in a reboot.

[theplottwist]

The problem with canonising LOS is that in this series, Gabriel is Dracula. Back in the day you had to deal with theories that "Gabriel became Mathias became Dracula"  . If Gabriel is no longer Dracula, it's not LOS imho, because that was the main factor that set it apart from the original CV. Gabriel is that antihero and having him not be that seems like a cheap way to reuse his character, not that it really matters but why not just have a brand new protagonist?

Even though I think Zangetsu failed to fully grasp the concept of this thread (ignore what LoS is NOW, make LoS anew and Gabriel is not Dracula anymore), I think he's right by putting forth that this is something even sillier than LoS is: separating Dracula from Gabriel. Unless he was responding to AlexCalvo, but the lack of quotes confused me.

Gabriel has been built to be Dracula, from the overly dramatic plotline beginning before LoS, to his own brooding characterization and expression. Supposing they rebooted the LoS trilogy, separating Gabriel from Dracula would take an almost not-worth-it effort, to the point of having to rebuild Gabriel entirely down to his personality (something that, in game designing, is basically what dictates what the character looks like, so that would pretty much require him to *look* different too). That would be too much for the fanbase, I believe, and the effort is better wasted on a completelly new game.

HOWEVER that's not to say there couldn't be other possibility. I can see, for instance one such being an alternate timeline springing from some point in LoS' backstory. For instance: What would happen if Gabriel had discovered that Marie was pregnant? This would lead to a chain of events for him to avoid being used by Zobek, NOT becoming Dracula, and another to take the mantle. Now that's something I could see working nicely to both save Gabriel's characterization, undo his being used like a complete retard (thus restoring our perception of him to status quo) AND create a new character to be Dracula (thus restoring our perception of what Dracula represents in LoS). In this imaginary reboot, he was destined to be Dracula (therefore why starting characterization is the same) but ESCAPED his fate. You're having the cake AND eating it too.

All in all, I don't think rebooting LoS by pretending "it's LoS" but in fact having a completelly different underlying concept is a good idea. But I do think a reboot acknowledging LoS' universe BUT taking it to another direction with concepts laid down by LoS would be a better idea.

[zangetsu468]

Not really... It happened in a post-credit scene, then was elaborated on in a DLC.  I know that is an important factor in later LoS games, mostly 2.  So I would have no problem ignoring that in a reboot.

Elaborated? No it happens during the DLC, as soon as Gabriel downed Laura's entire body of blood. He simply got so powerful after acquiring TF1's power, that he didn't need the combat cross anymore.

The end of LOS did explicity show what happened post credits, however, if you also look in the game's art collection after finishing it, there's a portrait of Gabriel that explicitly says "Dracula".

[SecretWeapon]

I like AlexCalvo version. He may not become Dracula but making Gabriel the one who made Europe fear and shun the name Belmont achieves pretty much the same result

[zangetsu468]

Even though I think Zangetsu failed to fully grasp the concept of this thread (ignore what LoS is NOW, make LoS anew and Gabriel is not Dracula anymore)

Plottwist, you sweet-talking devil.. How did you know that I enjoy fragments of insults served to me with a side of breakfast in the morning

I think he's right by putting forth that this is something even sillier than LoS is: separating Dracula from Gabriel.

Exactly, it's not Gabriel without Dracula, he's just a husk. A different Belmont.

Unless he was responding to AlexCalvo, but the lack of quotes confused me.

Speaking to whoever wanted to read the post, not specifically at AlexCalvo.

Supposing they rebooted the LoS trilogy, separating Gabriel from Dracula would take an almost not-worth-it effort, to the point of having to rebuild Gabriel entirely down to his personality (something that, in game designing, is basically what dictates what the character looks like, so that would pretty much require him to *look* different too). That would be too much for the fanbase, I believe, and the effort is better wasted on a completelly new game.

Yep, I agree.

HOWEVER that's not to say there couldn't be other possibility. I can see, for instance one such being an alternate timeline springing from some point in LoS' backstory. For instance: What would happen if Gabriel had discovered that Marie was pregnant? This would lead to a chain of events for him to avoid being used by Zobek, NOT becoming Dracula, and another to take the mantle. Now that's something I could see working nicely to both save Gabriel's characterization, undo his being used like a complete retard (thus restoring our perception of him to status quo) AND create a new character to be Dracula (thus restoring our perception of what Dracula represents in LoS). In this imaginary reboot, he was destined to be Dracula (therefore why starting characterization is the same) but ESCAPED his fate. You're having the cake AND eating it too.

I'm always down for alternate timelines (comes from my love of Zelda) and how about eliminating the whole "Devil Mask" scenario altogether Zobek tries to use Gabriel to kill Marie. Through some chain of playable events, he saves Marie and the God Mask/ Devil Mask scenario never takes place. Maybe somehow Zobek takes up the mantle of Dark Lord. I think I prefer Zobek to Satan as an antagonist to begin with.

Would I buy it and play it? Who knows.

[Chernabogue]

LoS is done and fine on its own. Rebooting Castlevania on its own would be better at this point.

[Dengo vlad tepes]

Konami needs to reboot themselves first.

But yeah, it is a great idea to reboot LoS and make it more Castlevania by changing a lot of things, but then there will be no point in calling it LoS ? so maybe they should just reboot the original Castlevania timeline while keeping the spirit of original Castlevania and add the redesigned LoS characters to that new timeline.

[thernz]

When's f2p Lords of Shadow where you can play as other members of the Brotherhood and you just do PSO2/Diablo II style loot runs? ? ? ?

It could be Harmony of Despair 2.

[Dracula9]

well this thread brought thernz back from the dead so that's one good thing that's happened

[JayDominus]

Yeah, while LoS reboot is an interesting possibility, I gotta disagree on a lot of points brought in the OP.

For one, some of the story ideas they had for LoS were good. I daresay, a lot of them were good. It was the execution that sucked, leaving some threads underdeveloped, while the others were just left hanging (and there were far too many of them at the same time; shoulda just took a couple and developed them fully).
For two, I don't think returning to the original continuity would be "the preferred way". Not for me, anyhow. Truth is, the original continuity is a convoluted mess mired in anime cliches which is why a reboot existed in the first place. I always said that LoS was an opportunity to bring the series back to its roots. A sorely missed opportunity, but whatchagonnado with Konami being Konami.
For three: Ditch the orchestral music? You know, the one unambiguosly good element about Lords of Shadow?

So how would I fix the LoS series?
The first game... I think I'd just trim some of the filler and leave the story mostly intact. Some things I'd elaborate more upon (like I would like some actual resolution to the whole God Mask macguffin) and add more development into Gabriel's transition from a hero to a spiteful villain.
From there on the series can just go into the "Belmont of the day" formula as usual, retaining the general gameplay (with some unique gimmicks for each character) while changing stories and time settings. That's what I thought LoS was going to turn into.
Oh, and subsequent games drop the "Lords of Shadow" subtitle. If it's a reboot, why the hell is subtitle a part of the sub-series title?

[Flame]

I do like the idea of taking Gabriel the Belmont, and sticking him in the classic series, minus the dracula and cronqvist bastard stuff. he can be that one edgy angsty Belmont. Hell, there's a big gap between Leon and Trevor, right?

perfect for a Belmont who doesn't actually fight Dracula

honestly id say the lost potential on LoS1 as it is, is that Gabriel turns into Dracula. As a twist on it's own, it was definitely surprising and compelling. Very Coppolla Dracula-esque.

However, as a CASTLEVANIA twist, it was really just unnecessary. The game was perfect as it ended. it had a real nice bittersweet ending. You beat the shit out of satan and saved the day, but you don't get your girl back.

[Nagumo]

I think the LoS universe is inherently flawed story-wise. It's not something that could be fixed with an alternative timeline of events in my opinion. For example, it wouldn't erase lame ideas like the Mirror of Fate, the Necromantic Wars, and Agartha. I think there a couple of good ideas that can be salvaged from the LoS series, but only when it's placed in a different context. Otherwise the terrible stuff keeps casting a shadow over it if you know what I mean.

Secondly, and I'm sure many people will disagree with me on this, but the reason why Gabriel doesn't really work for me as Dracula is that he is too different from how Dracula is portrayed in the previous. His look is too different and Dracula always been more of a magic user instead of using actual weapons. Of course, many people will argue LoS is a reboot, so it doesn't matter what Dracula was like before. However, I think there are some elements that should remain more or less consistent in a CV game, even if you're dealing with a reboot. Other games set in alternative universe, like for example CotM, got this right since Dracula's look is different enough but still recognizable.