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Offline Nagumo

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #705 on: November 03, 2018, 03:54:57 AM »
+1
For real... that's worse than superman's dad in Man of Steel...  Also I have to lol at the "smug atheist scientist woman" comment above.  Some people have a hard time hiding their feelings on certain topics...  There is nothing more saint like than healing people, given the time period, and the idea of her being a healer, the changes here were 100% warranted.  I've got my problems with plenty of the changes in this series, there characterization of Lisa is not one of them.  The kind of character some people seem to have wanted would be a completely 2 dimensional bore.

Science and religion were deeply intertwined in the Middle Ages, though. It also included elements of what we now label as magic.  You act like it makes no sense that someone with scientific knowledge wouldn't actually be religious while the far majority of scientists in that period believed in the existence of God. The Bible was considered to be the highest authority of knowledge.

What I'm getting at is that Ellis could easily have included these three aspects (magic, science, and faith) into her character. Not only would it have be consistent with her character, it would have made her less one dimensional, actually would have fitted the universe he's supposed to be writing for, and be historically accurate as well.

Instead we got a character with a 21th century worldview placed in the middle ages along with religious strawmen. Do you understand how dumb that is?

Also, you're mistaken if you think I take issue with this because I'm personally offended by the depiction of religion in the show.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 03:57:24 AM by Nagumo »

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #706 on: November 03, 2018, 04:32:53 AM »
0
Science [was] deeply intertwined in the Middle Ages, though.

except for that time everyone turned out the lights and it got really dark


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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #707 on: November 03, 2018, 09:00:56 AM »
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To be fair, all of the characters in Dracula's Curse are 2 dimensional.
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Offline X

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #708 on: November 03, 2018, 10:13:10 AM »
0
There was very little science going on in the middle ages. If one was practising science 'he' and especially 'she' needed to be very careful of their studies or the church would come down hard on them. That's not to say there weren't those who did it secret as well as Wicca. The Church did accept science in some semblance, but only that which did not interfere with their Religious doctrine.
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #709 on: November 03, 2018, 12:17:40 PM »
+1

There was very little science going on in the middle ages. If one was practising science 'he' and especially 'she' needed to be very careful of their studies or the church would come down hard on them. That's not to say there weren't those who did it secret as well as Wicca. The Church did accept science in some semblance, but only that which did not interfere with their Religious doctrine.



There was plenty of science. You had mathematics, natural philosophy, and theology  (regarded as the most most imporant science). Universities began during the middle ages and were usually founded or funded by the Church. There were secular ones too but these taught theology as well. There were advancements in mathematics, architecture, and navigation. Christian priests were educated and were responsible for preserving many Greek/Roman texts.  The medieval church wasn't anti-science. Science explained how things worked and brought you closer to God because God was in everything.

Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #710 on: November 03, 2018, 12:30:04 PM »
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The Japanese SOTN is of course better than all translations but even if it has the deepest plot among all, please be reminded that IGA wanted to add more plot, but did not do so. Maybe all the missing plot went into Nocturne of Recollection?
Yeah. I do wish we'd get a solid answer on why the Belmont's gave up the whip, its one of those things that keeps me up an night, I have my ideas,

 
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Offline TheouAegis

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #711 on: November 03, 2018, 04:29:39 PM »
+1
Medicine itself wasn't heretical. Folk medicine became heretical during the Inquisitions, which was not until long after Castlevania originated. Lisa's crime, if anything, was that she was a learned woman. She probably also didn't have a license to practice medicine, which probably gave the Church reason enough to go after her. The Church had plenty of physicians as well as veterinarians by that time; blurting out that her lab had nothing to do with God might have sealed her fate, but it would have been quite feasible that all of her equipment would have been confiscated by the Church and adopted for research by one of the other clergy. In all likelihood, the bishop was just on a misogynistic power trip. Dracula's Curse took place in the 15th century, nearly two centuries after St. Albert the Great, but since it took place in Romania, it should have been an Orthodox Catholic Church, so the scholastics of Western Catholics might have been unknown to the bishop and others.
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Offline Aiddon

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #712 on: November 03, 2018, 08:48:52 PM »
0
Medicine itself wasn't heretical. Folk medicine became heretical during the Inquisitions, which was not until long after Castlevania originated. Lisa's crime, if anything, was that she was a learned woman. She probably also didn't have a license to practice medicine, which probably gave the Church reason enough to go after her. The Church had plenty of physicians as well as veterinarians by that time; blurting out that her lab had nothing to do with God might have sealed her fate, but it would have been quite feasible that all of her equipment would have been confiscated by the Church and adopted for research by one of the other clergy. In all likelihood, the bishop was just on a misogynistic power trip. Dracula's Curse took place in the 15th century, nearly two centuries after St. Albert the Great, but since it took place in Romania, it should have been an Orthodox Catholic Church, so the scholastics of Western Catholics might have been unknown to the bishop and others.

Yeah, medicine and science were commonly practiced in the various sects of Christianity and many great scientific breakthroughs happened because of monks and priests, but the problem was the people in charge had really, REALLY bad habits. One, was hoarding knowledge but not sharing it that in turn made the populace more dependent on the clergy instead of becoming more educated. Two, they did NOT like the idea of using old, folk medicine that they considered pagan or heretical (fittingly, folk healers also were more likely to be women).

Offline TheouAegis

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #713 on: November 03, 2018, 09:26:37 PM »
+1
Except clearly Lisa's work wasn't folk medicine; even the clergy were like, "What the heck is all this stuff?!" They were just haters.  :-X
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Offline Aiddon

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #714 on: November 03, 2018, 11:02:53 PM »
0
Except clearly Lisa's work wasn't folk medicine; even the clergy were like, "What the heck is all this stuff?!" They were just haters.  :-X

True, a lot of it was in fact stuff she either discovered or learned from Dracula. What she prescribes to the elderly woman is just penicillin and when she says "It's old knowledge" that's also true because a lot of medicinal techniques were lost to a lot of Europe during the Dark Ages, with a lot of it instead spreading to Byzantium or Muslim nations. And that's a painfully common thing in that a lot of helpful science was probably destroyed by zealots trying to maintain control

Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #715 on: November 04, 2018, 09:06:46 AM »
+1
Natural philosophy and the groundings of science were extremely different in the Middle Ages compared to today, and things such as medical practices then were based off of notions which would be just plain laughed at today, but were seen as science then.  Science such as what Lisa practices would be seen as odd even by other doctors, and easily heretical, even though it’s very much true that knowledge was lost - you can believe Lisa’s claims.  Heck, different sects of the church were at each other’s throats.  During the Dark Ages, a lot of things were unfortunately lost.  Paranoia were rampant, and folk medicine healers, such as village wise women, were persecuted a lot.

  You also need to bear in mind the line that the bishop says about Lupu’s former wise woman.  She made allegations against Lisa, very likely from a mix of fear as well as jealousy.  During witch trials often people would make accusations at others as a way to escape being tried as a witch oneself.  The former wise woman likely had been accused herself, then having seen Lisa’s strange equipment, as well as wanting her old position back, pointed the finger at Lisa. 

  As for occultism and magic, any folk medicine could easily be misconstrued for witchcraft, regardless of it was or not.  Wicca is not the correct term for it either, X - Wicca is a modern neopagan religion created by Gardner in the 1950s. 
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Offline X

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #716 on: November 04, 2018, 09:44:22 AM »
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@TatteredSeraph

Thanks, just looked it up. This might be more accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_(word)

In terms of the Church and science, so long as the church controlled it (or other things) then yes it was acceptable. If not, then there were investigations. And in other cases, serious repercussions to the practitioners.
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Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #717 on: November 04, 2018, 12:54:23 PM »
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You’re welcome.  ;D. Gardner appropriated the term from those older terms, confusing things, and made claims about his Wicca being ancient.  It isn’t.  In the Middle Ages. There would have been no central set of beliefs, no central religion to it.  You’d get pockets of folk beliefs and pagan practices handed down by the odd practitioner here and there’s.  If you’re interested in this, I recommend to look up the history of modern witchcraft in the British Isles and in Europe.  I’d also recommend looking into things such as famous witch trials, and things such as the Inquisition’s witch hunts.  The UK has a particularly interesting and very well recorded case called the Pendle Witch Trials, of 1612.  (The Pendle witches are actually one of the sources of inspiration behind Good Omens by Pratchett and Gaiman, and is currently being made into a tv series.)
  As such, I would say that the way Lisa’s case is portrayed in the series makes a heck of a lot of sense to me, having read into some of this stuff.  I also had absolutely no issue with how Lisa herself came across in the series.  I really liked her actually.  She came across as an inquisitive and sensible woman who wanted to learn better how to be a doctor, and then she met someone who has very advanced medical knowledge compared to most.  You also have to remember that Dracula, as well as having older, otherwise lost, knowledge, is if anything, very anachronistic, and ahead of the times.

  As a whole I did love season two, although I had issues with certain things within it.  Isaac did grow on me I admit on a rewatch.  The final fight in episode seven and the final scene have me in tears each and every time. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 01:03:10 PM by TatteredSeraph »
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #718 on: November 04, 2018, 01:54:00 PM »
+2
you all know what the ultimate form of healing during the middle ages was

zombie puppy


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Offline Guy Belmont

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #719 on: November 04, 2018, 03:35:24 PM »
+2
you all know what the ultimate form of healing during the middle ages was

zombie puppy

As there's going to be a TON of CV  merchandise Coming our way, there better be a Stuffed zombie Puppy.
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