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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #345 on: July 12, 2017, 10:52:14 AM »
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character designs are ok. I liked Trevor's outfit. is it just me or is his crest the LoS Belmont crest?

People had noticed it, but they flat out confirmed it two days ago, too.

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Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #346 on: July 12, 2017, 10:52:39 AM »
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The church sucks in real life and in the series. Makes sense to me.

Very much this. Besides, the church portrayed in the Castlevania games is little defined and what we saw of it already differs massively from the church found in real life.
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Offline Dremn

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #347 on: July 12, 2017, 11:25:51 AM »
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I wonder if the corruption of the church will be a plot point later on explaining where are all the dark cults that keep resurrecting Dracula will come from.


Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #348 on: July 12, 2017, 11:35:38 AM »
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I wonder if the corruption of the church will be a plot point later on explaining where are all the dark cults that keep resurrecting Dracula will come from.

Well, it is known that Shaft was a former priest who turned to Darkness... So this is already semi-canon, basically.
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Offline Dremn

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #349 on: July 12, 2017, 11:46:32 AM »
+1
Yeah, so it leads me to believe that's also the route they're taking. Instead of just random cults popping up, we would have a better understanding of where their influence originates from.

Also this whole argument about the show being anti-christian/catholic is silly. It is anything but that, people just blatantly ignoring the scene of Trevor asking the Priest to make holy water to fend off demons, and the demons telling the corrupt Bishop that even God thought he was a joke. I appreciate the whole "not everything is black and white" approach.


Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #350 on: July 12, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »
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Now that is an interesting thought.  It could make sense, actually.  I also saw the point about the priest who wasn't corrupt being fine, and able to make hoy water properly.  I wonder if he'll pop up in season 2?
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #351 on: July 12, 2017, 12:23:19 PM »
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There's a problem with anti-church stance this series aside from it simply not fitting in with what was established before. That's actually fine because this series seems to be a similar yet different take on the CV mythos anyway. The problem I'm talking about is that it makes Dracula' motivation for wanting to destroy humanity completely nonsensical.

In this series,  humanity's evil actions seems to fueled by the fear of an authority figure, the church. This is illustrated in the series itself by the exchange between the Bishop and the Mayor, the latter clearly having second thoughts about Lisa's execution. Clearly, the local village people don't have any power to stand up to the church, either. So Dracula's blames them for what exactly? If they don't resist the church they're fucked by Dracula, if they do the right thing and resist they're fucked by the Church.

Why doesn't Dracula just go after the church? Why don't Dracula, the village people, and the Belmonts just team up? In this series, Dracula only does what he does because that's what the plot requires him to do. There's no logic to any of this.

In story of the original timeline, the point is made that humanity is capable of committing atrocities on its own volition. This means Dracula actually has somewhat of a point. Fleshing that out would have ten times more interesting than going for the lowest hanging fruit: the church is evil!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:30:01 PM by Nagumo »

Offline Reinhart77

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #352 on: July 12, 2017, 01:22:39 PM »
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It's not just you, because it is.
well that put me in a good mood :)

edit: ugh, quotes are hard.  talking about belmont crest being from lords of shadow
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 01:26:46 PM by Reinhart77 »

Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #353 on: July 12, 2017, 01:45:25 PM »
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There's a problem with anti-church stance this series aside from it simply not fitting in with what was established before. That's actually fine because this series seems to be a similar yet different take on the CV mythos anyway. The problem I'm talking about is that it makes Dracula' motivation for wanting to destroy humanity completely nonsensical.

In this series,  humanity's evil actions seems to fueled by the fear of an authority figure, the church. This is illustrated in the series itself by the exchange between the Bishop and the Mayor, the latter clearly having second thoughts about Lisa's execution. Clearly, the local village people don't have any power to stand up to the church, either. So Dracula's blames them for what exactly? If they don't resist the church they're fucked by Dracula, if they do the right thing and resist they're fucked by the Church.

Why doesn't Dracula just go after the church? Why don't Dracula, the village people, and the Belmonts just team up? In this series, Dracula only does what he does because that's what the plot requires him to do. There's no logic to any of this.

In story of the original timeline, the point is made that humanity is capable of committing atrocities on its own volition. This means Dracula actually has somewhat of a point. Fleshing that out would have ten times more interesting than going for the lowest hanging fruit: the church is evil!

I think it's to do with the line "there are no innocents!" that he proclaims.  Firstly, the people stood by and watched, regardless of whether that was out of fear.  Then, they celebrated a year later, the people joining in to him was evidence that they were glad that the alleged witch was dead. 
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #354 on: July 12, 2017, 02:27:16 PM »
+1
There's a problem with anti-church stance this series aside from it simply not fitting in with what was established before. That's actually fine because this series seems to be a similar yet different take on the CV mythos anyway. The problem I'm talking about is that it makes Dracula' motivation for wanting to destroy humanity completely nonsensical.

In this series,  humanity's evil actions seems to fueled by the fear of an authority figure, the church. This is illustrated in the series itself by the exchange between the Bishop and the Mayor, the latter clearly having second thoughts about Lisa's execution. Clearly, the local village people don't have any power to stand up to the church, either. So Dracula's blames them for what exactly? If they don't resist the church they're fucked by Dracula, if they do the right thing and resist they're fucked by the Church.

Why doesn't Dracula just go after the church? Why don't Dracula, the village people, and the Belmonts just team up? In this series, Dracula only does what he does because that's what the plot requires him to do. There's no logic to any of this.

In story of the original timeline, the point is made that humanity is capable of committing atrocities on its own volition. This means Dracula actually has somewhat of a point. Fleshing that out would have ten times more interesting than going for the lowest hanging fruit: the church is evil!

People weren't forced to watch this happening (the old lady bringing flowers to Lisa's house proves that) and nor forced to celebrate 1 year later. Yet they do so, so its not only because of the church.

Also while watching this scene, Alucard's phrase from SotN ringed at my head all the time:


In the games he wanted to destroy humanity because they killed Lisa, same happens here. If he wanted to destroy only the culprits, he could've destroyed the village in the game, same here. I understand that if he wanted to take revenge by killing the culprits it wouldn't make sense, but Dracula conversation with Alucard shows that he isn't interested in killing only the culprits.

It doesn't seems to matter why, someone could've tried to do the right thing and yet no one did. This theme seems to be recurring in the animated series: Do the right thing, don't let lies prevail, etc. So even if its not humanity alone but a guy from the church that did this, the other present acted as accomplices by simply being there.

Now it becomes bullshit later, because of another thing: the 1 year of time to repent. So while I don't agree with you for the earlier motives, I have to do so because of these.

Even if Dracula was really going to spare people if they changed their way (What I doubt he would do in canon, since he didn't listen to Lisa last words again in this version, he didn't knew where she was or that she was dead until someone told him), I really doubt that he would spare these people present when Lisa was burned at stakes.
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #355 on: July 12, 2017, 03:08:38 PM »
+2
Why doesn't Dracula just go after the church?

Because he makes comments multiple times that suggest he's been wanting an excuse to have a Purge for quite some time, and Lisa was the only thing stopping it.

Generally I agree with you, but this one's a stretch. The plot may not be to your liking, but it does explain why he goes after everyone and not just Discount Frollo.

the lowest hanging fruit: the church is evil!

The only people who interpret the show's message as anti-religion or anti-church are either religious people looking for something to take as blame or people who are already anti-church looking for a dog in their corner.

The show doesn't spend all its time differentiating asshole clergy from non-asshole believers for no reason.

If the common people are supposedly afraid of the church, then why do they all seem to express surprise and volatility when Trevor spills the beans on the actions of the bearded priest who was fucking with the old guy? Why go to the lengths of pointing out the problems with a priest carrying a thief's dagger at all times or bullying an old man who'd done no wrong if not to establish this point?

And besides, Shankar's already confirmed his intentions on the front regarding the church. Yes, I've seen and fully expect people to continue raising the argument that "well one random good priest that made holy water isn't enough to compensate the obvious CHURCH IS EVIL vibes the rest of the show gives off!", but that's only half-right and here's why.

Correct, one random schmuck with ten seconds of screentime isn't a very good buffer for the hour or so featuring the Bishop and whatnot. But let's not act like that's a fair point in a four-episode extended pilot. Good luck properly defining the nuances and grey-area that is religious morality and fanaticism in the span of 160 minutes when you have all this other shit to lay out for the base plot. It's just not happening. Antagonists need to be established early with nuances relating to them following suit, and that's all that was done.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying it was done well or even as well as it could've or should've been, but that it was done in some measure at least.

I'm all for denoting the flaws in the show, but c'mon people, at least denote them for the right reasons. This thing with the show being anti-church is a serious stretch based on assumptions and conceptions from a rushed pilot season that charges through a lot of its important subject matter haphazardly.


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Offline TatteredSeraph

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #356 on: July 12, 2017, 03:47:17 PM »
+1
I think that yes, a little more screen time to develop some of the counters probably wouldn't have gone amiss, but I read things the same way, D9.  Lelygax's quote from SotN, about the way for evil to endure is if good people stand tehre and do nothing plays well into this as well.  Also, Alucard says that while he';s also grieving, he's calling out his father on going too far.  Yes, he was justifiably angry and wantign vengeance, but he targetting innocent people was well, irrespective of the one year warning.  Lisa wouldn't have wanted him to do this, and he's not honouring her memory by acting like this.

Thanks btw on that horrible worm of thought.... Discount Frollo.  Now I'm thinking of the Bishop singing an adjusted version of Hellfire, and wanting Lisa, who rejected him. :P
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Offline Aiddon

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #357 on: July 12, 2017, 07:01:58 PM »
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I think it's to do with the line "there are no innocents!" that he proclaims.  Firstly, the people stood by and watched, regardless of whether that was out of fear.  Then, they celebrated a year later, the people joining in to him was evidence that they were glad that the alleged witch was dead.

Indeed, and he even gave them a chance out of respect for Lisa. He gave them one year to make peace and flee which was far more than they ever gave Lisa.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #358 on: July 12, 2017, 07:29:59 PM »
+1
Indeed, and he even gave them a chance out of respect for Lisa. He gave them one year to make peace and flee which was far more than they ever gave Lisa.

>"You, old woman showing deep respect and appreciation for Lisa, as my last act of kindness, leave Wallachia tonight because shit is going down"
>finds burned Lisa
>"lol nope, listen here, people who burned my wife: have one entire year as a last act of kindness"

poor old woman left Wallachia in desperation with the clothing she had on her body for nothing lol
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 07:32:28 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Netflix Castlevania Animation: Cast Revealed
« Reply #359 on: July 12, 2017, 09:15:25 PM »
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poor old woman left Wallachia in desperation with the clothing she had on her body for nothing lol

Well, she was sick anyway and Lisa was prolonging her life. So, without Lisa, I doubt that she would like for 1 whole year. She must have died from natural causes before the ultimatum was up. That's what I think. Better die from natural causes than be demon chow.

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