Topic: Netflix Castlevania vs. Bloodstained

[Guy Belmont]

Jesus Christ, no. We don't need yet another video game timeline to confuse people who think Gabriel is original Dracula to this day.

Yeah We really need something like this... really as CV is a dyeing art, and maybe this will pump some interest back in it. we can only hope.

And did any of you see that Vampire Killer Design, gotta say that I'm a convert to the whole thing being a leather Whip after that lovely design.

And its nice that hes got a Scottish accent, as that place is rich monster  legends... and I have Scottish  blood too

But yes I can't wait for this to come out, it also looks a bit like Vampire hunter D, and that's a nice tie in as Yamamura was a fan of Hideyuki Kikuchi.

But after seeing this, I must say that I hope its as good as it looks.  OH man I hope its good.

[Super Waffle]

Why not both?

[theplottwist]

A soft reboot based on the classic games is exactly what CV needs in my opinion.

And setting it all up with 2 seasons of an animated series would be the perfect way to assure that nobody is confused.

People are already thinking Gabriel will appear or get mentioned somehow as being Dracula on this series. They're now confusing the new timeline with the old timeline with the animation timeline.

I'm not willing to "take anything" because "we got nothing". And I'm not even talking about the series being bad -- it might turn out to be actually pretty good. Now, remember what happens when:

1. We take anything because we got nothing.
2. Games get made out of movies/animations.

Nah I'm cool. Let it grow as an animated series with 48237489 seasons instead of turning them into games. The odds of a game out of this being utter crap are too high for my tastes even without having watched one single episode of this series yet, and I don't subscribe to this "more=better" culture.

(click to show/hide)

Also a reminder/side-note that I, personally, having based my opinion on the past behavior of the guys behind this animation, think that they are doing a crap job already and have zero respect for them until the animation proves itself beyond a teaser.

[AlexCalvo]

Most of what I was going to say has already been said. I would rather have a soft rebooted classic timeline oriented game based on this animated series than nothing.  And that does not mean I'd just "take anything"  I mean an Igavania Cv3 remake with this aesthetic would have to be really really bad to not be satisfying and this is a franchise that's survived Dracula X, Legends, and LoS2.  We just need some kind of forward motion to keep this series alive outside of pachinko machines. I get that you are very apprehensive about this series, but I think your hate is getting less and less warranted.  It kind of seems like you won't be satisfied unless it falls in line 100% with the original Canon. I mean first you were all about how this series was going to be to far away from the source material, teaser comes out and you say it's too safe... It just seems like they can't please you. We can already see it is doing a much better job than most adaptations.

[Guy Belmont]

Most of what I was going to say has already been said. I would rather have a soft rebooted classic timeline oriented game based on this animated series than nothing.  And that does not mean I'd just "take anything"  I mean an Igavania Cv3 remake with this aesthetic would have to be really really bad to not be satisfying and this is a franchise that's survived Dracula X, Legends, and LoS2.  We just need some kind of forward motion to keep this series alive outside of pachinko machines. I get that you are very apprehensive about this series, but I think your hate is getting less and less warranted.  It kind of seems like you won't be satisfied unless it fall in line 100% with the original Canon.  We can already see it is doing a much better job than adaptations.

Yeah I have to agree with that,

People are already thinking Gabriel will appear or get mentioned somehow as being Dracula on this series. They're now confusing the new timeline with the old timeline with the animation timeline.

I'm not willing to "take anything" because "we got nothing". And I'm not even talking about the series being bad -- it might turn out to be actually pretty good. Now, remember what happens when:

1. We take anything because we got nothing.
2. Games get made out of movies/animations.

Nah I'm cool. Let it grow as an animated series with 48237489 seasons instead of turning them into games. The odds of a game out of this being utter crap are too high for my tastes even without having watched one single episode of this series yet, and I don't subscribe to this "more=better" culture.

Also a reminder/side-note that I, personally, having based my opinion on the past behavior of the guys behind this animation, think that they are doing a crap job already and have zero respect for them until the animation proves itself beyond a teaser

I Think your just shooting this down cos it really doesn't go with what IGA has been doing, and I agree it is sad for fans who hoped for more of an IGA feel.

Also a reminder/side-note that I, personally, having based my opinion on the past behavior of the guys behind this animation, think that they are doing a crap job already and have zero respect for them until the animation proves itself beyond a teaser

I think this is a REALLY unfair statement. To be honest, this is bordering on angry ugly Fanboyism that just feels that IGA's work has been messed on, and it really cuts down on your credibility, as you've just shot something down with hate missiles for no real reason, other then the fact that you feel that it's not respecting the aspect of CV that you like, even though you have no idea how it will turn out.

And I know a lot of IGA fans don't like hearing this, but there have been many takes on CV, like the older backstory of the count (and yes, IGA added parts from that into his work -- but I have huge problems with IGA's character psychology for Dracula, though that's for another day).

I think this series is just another look into the world that is Castlevania, not IGA's Castlevania. I mean, one could say that IGA has taken a lot of things out, and upset many by doing so, but that's not to say that he did something bad. He was just trying to give life to something in the only way he knew how. And it's the same with this -- YES it's new, YES it's not like IGA's work. But I think that this could be really well-made.  And to me, someone who has Loved CV for years, I can see that it has the spirit of CV.


As you worry about past behaviour, let's compare it to the film, missing one of the most important parts of CV lore: the whip. But the new show is not only using it, it has really taken the time to redesign it, showing that they are putting real time and care into this.
 
And I think it's important to say yes, IGA has done a LOT For CV.
He carried it for years, giving it life and making sure that it didn't fade into an echo -- but the world of CV does not just begin and stop With IGA.


It's filled with the sweat, tears and blood of other men and women who worked their backs off to bring CV to life, and make something that can still stand up today and bring people together from all parts of the world to talk about and debate, and share in a love for something that was so well made that the first Nes game still stands up today as one of the greatest games of all time.


And CV3 had new ideas and other things that helped grow the world of CV, and just like this new show, I'm sure a lot of fans felt that maybe it would be bad, as after 2 was sooo different from 1, maybe it should just stop as CV really isn't what it used to be. But it turned out to be a fantastic game.


So what I'm trying to say is, let's put aside hate for something that we all have very little info on, as it could be really good. Of course, I'm not saying it will be a hit -- it may be really, really bad. But at the same time, it could be really, really good. So let's just wait until it's on before we throw our rotten fruit at it.

[Dracula9]

Some of you all need to get it through your skulls that having a liking of the IGA canon does not instantly mean you hate anything non-IGA, have nothing but poor opinions on anything non-IGA, are incapable of liking anything non-IGA, or only like the IGA stuff because it has IGA's name on it.

Getting really fucking tired of seeing this shit in here. Especially when the people being attacked and demeaned as "oh you're just buttmad it's not IGA" when they've outright stated why their opinion is what it is and the reasons have nothing to do with IGA.

[theplottwist]

Alex Calvo:

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but I think your hate is getting less and less warranted.

So, either I should LOVE OH MY GOD THIS IS THE INCARNATION OF GOD ON EARTH, or I'm just expressing "unwarranted hate"?

While you keep telling me my hate is unwarranted, I see you praising something as the new coming of Jesus with no real basis at all beyond some nice graphics (LoS2 had those, remember?). Difference being I don't keep judging you for it.

So, yeah.

It kind of seems like you won't be satisfied unless it falls in line 100% with the original Canon.

Point me where I said it should fall in line 100% with the original canon.

It seems everyone throwing stones at me did not once get where my criticism is coming from. You look at my posts and think "oh this guy loves the canon" then assume I hate the product that doesn't fall in line with the canon.

Which is incredible considering my favorite Castlevania is not canon and is listed right beneath my username for everyone to see.

I mean first you were all about how this series was going to be to far away from the source material

Yeah, but not "story-wise" but instead "theme-wise". Every single time I criticised this product is due to it shitting on the Castlevania themes (something LoS2 also did). I like the first LoS (sans the final 15 minutes), and its plot has nothing to do with the old timeline at all.

See how you don't get what my criticism is? Another important part of my criticism is that, from the people behind this, the writter thinks he's above studying the source material to create something respectful of it, and the producer thinks this is some kinda Mortal Kombat parody to market it "super violent".

"B-BUT THE TEASER"

Remember: It's a teaser. You saw virtually nothing about the series itself. Neither did I, but the current evidence tells me I shouldn't get too happy.

teaser comes out and you say it's too safe...

I also said I liked it and it looked solid. Avoid Confirmation Bias, man.

And will you tell me it ISN'T safe as fuck? C'mon, man.

It just seems like they can't please you. We can already see it is doing a much better job than most adaptations.

They can. But given what I know, I'm not too confident. And, they're not here to please me after all, are they?

And this being a "much better job" is debatable. The animation is truly solid and looks attractive, but without a good plot it won't go too far.

GuyBelmont:

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To be honest, this is bordering on angry ugly Fanboyism that just feels that IGA's work has been messed on

Castlevania III is not "IGA's work". I wonder what the hell I am saying that some of you think I must be some goddamn retard.

and it really cuts down on your credibility, as you've just shot something down with hate missiles for no real reason

So, once again, either I applaud or I shut up. Is that how it is?

And, what will you do if my criticism of the series turns out to be warranted? Nothing, of course. You'll all pretend I never said anything.

not respecting the aspect of CV that you like

What is that I like that is is not getting respected? Can you cite what it is?

And I know a lot of IGA fans don't like hearing this, but there have been many takes on CV, like the older backstory of the count (and yes, IGA added parts from that into his work -- but I have huge problems with IGA's character psychology for Dracula, though that's for another day).

See, you keep treating me (because this message is to me, isn't it?) as some idiot who can't tell shit from squat. You all believe I'm criticising this work because "it disrespects IGA".

You all missed when I posted the entire CVIII backstory in one post to explain how IGA had nothing to do with it, didn't you? I'll ignore every mention of IGA aimed at me henceforth.

As you worry about past behaviour, let's compare it to the film, missing one of the most important parts of CV lore: the whip.

We're certainly not thinking about the same project when I say "past behavior". There were two feature-length projects before, not one. And the one you are mentioning is not the one I keep pointing at.

So what I'm trying to say is, let's put aside hate

You can put it aside, if you want.

Also, stop saying I'm "hating" and trying to gaslight me. Return some posts and see me praise this goddamn animation you're making me hate even more with your blind appraisal.

we all have very little info on

How do you know my info is the same as yours?

I'm not saying it will be a hit -- it may be really, really bad. But at the same time, it could be really, really good. So let's just wait until it's on before we throw our rotten fruit at it.

Yeah, another thing that gets on my nerves: Do you even see me criticising shit the project DIDN'T show? Or things I haven't seen the people behind this do themselves?

You keep acting as if I'm criticising the SHOW ITSELF when it was always aimed at things that came out before the show but are related to it somehow. I have also already proved that old shit script summary is related to this directly, which only works to mine whatever growing confidence I could have on this. Go on, read that crap yourselves and see if your confidence resists imagining that Sypha is something completelly different from what she was, and that LoS did the exact same bullshit by using names from well known characters without actually using the CHARACTER.

Get it through your heads that there is a pretty good reason that you have NOT researched, for me to not respect this animation as a well-done work. I didn't spend hours scavenging through Ellis' words on the matter and that crap script for you to come here and tell me "I'm just hating for no reason".

In conclusion, I GET ALL OF YOUR POINTS, and the "wait until the show is out" one is the best one, which I have already outlined myself -- I'm keeping my expectations to until it comes out. I have had my share of these guys and I can't trust them until I see the work. And that's that.

So yeah, if I hear anymore "you dislike it because not canon" I'll have to start arguing that you'll like anything you see that's not canon. Just as logical.

[Aiddon]

I fail to see how this is a binary decision

[Dracula9]

nobody's treating it like it is

opinions and personal experiences are clashing and turning ugly because past fanbase prejudices never seem to die

nothing more is happening here and not an ounce less

[Lumi Kløvstad]

*comes in*
*sees all the drama*
*sidesteps, not touching that shit with a hundred foot pole*

I voted Bloodstained, giving it a slight edge. I am very likely to watch the series once. Once.
Maybe twice if it's exceptional, and more than that if it ever releases on Blu-Ray (Netflix series though, so that's incredibly unlikely).

But given how even my least favorite Iga game (Dawn of Sorrow) got at least 8 playthroughs from me, I think for me this vote is safely in Bloodstained's court here. I will most likely just enjoy it more times, though hopefully both will impress me.

[Shiroi Koumori]

nobody's treating it like it is

opinions and personal experiences are clashing and turning ugly because past fanbase prejudices never seem to die

nothing more is happening here and not an ounce less

Yup. This also happens with other fan bases like the FF peeps.
Oh boy... it's a clusterfuck over there.
C'mon guys you know better.

But given how even my least favorite Iga game (Dawn of Sorrow) got at least 8 playthroughs from me, I think for me this vote is safely in Bloodstained's court here. I will most likely just enjoy it more times, though hopefully both will impress me.

Me too! I did a lot of playthroughs for AoS and a slightly smaller number for DoS. I still have the maps memorized in my head. hahahaha.

[Dracula9]

Yup. This also happens with other fan bases like the FF peeps.
Oh boy... it's a clusterfuck over there.

EFF EFF SIVIN IS UBJECTIVLEE DA BIST GAEM OF ALL TIEM AND ANY1 HOO DISAGREEZ WIF ME IS RONG AND SHUD BEE FLAID AND HUNG FORE THERE SHINANIGINZ

SEFIROTH IS PURFIKT AND CLOWD IS HUZBIND MATEARIAL

WHAT

WHAT DO U MEEN YOO THINK EFF EFF NEIN HAZ A BETUR STOR-E-LINE AND CHARIKTURS THAT AREN'T SHALOW AZ HELL

FUK U UR AN ASSHOEL YOO SHUD NAWT BEE ALOUD 2 HAV AN OPINYUN

MODS MODS MODS MODS MODS PLEEZ BAN THIZ PURSIN THEY DUN'T LIEK WAT EYE LIEK AND THEIR BEEING MEEEEEEEEEEEEN 4 STAYTING THERE OPINYUNS

(in a nutshell, of course)

[Shiroi Koumori]

@D9: Yup in a nutshell.
And it is a world war everytime there is a new release. LOL.

[zangetsu468]

Don't think FF and CV are the only sufferers.. Zelda (No Spoilers for Breath of the Wild Please) gets the "Zelda cycle" and Sonic gets put through Sonic-spin-cycle of sorts... The salt and fanbase division is real these days, and hard to understand people... #gamingtowerofbabel

[AlexCalvo]

I really want to point out that no one here is being as aggressive and angry as you are plot twist. And you are exaggerating everyone else's arguments into hyperbolic non sense.  You seem to be arguing from a very emotional place, you can't see a discussion on the topic of this series without dumping vitriol all over it.  Surely you are aware that there is middle ground between the drastic extremes you present, no one is saying you should be on your hands and knees praising the teaser for perfection.  Saying your level of hate is unwarranted does not mean you should be loving everything, it just means its surprising that your opinion hasnt budged even in the face of something positive, when the slightest negative sends you groaning onto the forum.  Seriously, you thought a mediocre teaser poster was enough to stir up hate, but optimism after an awesome teaser trailer is unwarranted?  You are not being intellectually consistent.

Oh... And I'm not with that guy using this topic to rant/bitch about Iga. One of the things I loved most about the teaser was how Trevor and Alucard represented their Iga era designs. And Sypha looking perfect.

And just throwing out there that Warren Ellis is a SUPERB writer. We really couldn't have asked for anybody better.  And while he is certainly his own beast, and will start from his own point, he had Iga working with him on the script for literally a decade (sending it back with notes at least 4 times) and Shankar (who you should know from his facebook feed is a passionate Castlevania fan) to reign in his eccentricities.  And Adi Shankar is an extremely passionate fan and film maker who has produced some of the least compromising/Most quality work on film adaptations in decades.  So he dresses kind of goth... whatever. I am thrilled he got behind this.  We are VERY VERY lucky to have Shankar as the current steward of our beloved series.