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Offline Super Waffle

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SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« on: June 22, 2020, 01:57:36 PM »
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After one of my recent Reddit experiments failed, it called my attention to the fact that there's a significant subset of 'Vaniers (yeah let's call them that) who feel the shift to make all Castlevania games more like Metroid games is where it all started going bad.

Interesting. I was always under the impression SotN was near-universally loved as an improvement to the series. How does CVD feel about the hate?

Offline Holy Diver

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 03:21:58 PM »
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It did spawn a few bland SotN wannabes, but honestly saying that it's the reason it all went to shit is an overstatement. I don't blame a single game, there were always ups and downs.
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Offline DraculaCronqvist

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 05:46:05 PM »
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As much as I like Classicvania, the games reached a whole new level of excellence with SotN. It introduced not only deeper game mechanics but also a richer lore and story.
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Offline The Puritan

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2020, 03:47:59 AM »
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Completely agreed, though I've been wondering if the Metroidvania formula worked a little too well to the point it backed the franchise into a corner. No other attempt to break new ground, from going 3-D to making a fighting game to revisiting the Classicvania style, ever really clicked.

Offline X

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2020, 10:30:34 AM »
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SotN was definitely a turning point for the series, for good or for ill. With the metroid formula having been added to CV, the series underwent an interesting transformation. However this led the series to firmly 'stick' to this form of gameplay, and as such, other modes of gameplay weren't given the real opportunity to succeed (the 3D vanias just to name one). They all now were trying to emulate SotN and never really succeeded in capturing that success again. And unfortunately the Classicvanias, while having the odd release here and there, was something that CV never really went back to. It's kinda funny to me that, while the classicvanias were the mainstay of the series before SotN, I never got tired of the classicvania formula. There was just something about it that made each classic game fun and enjoyable despite some of them being as difficult as s@#t! Like others have stated the metroidvania formula has backed the franchise into a corner. I think at this point it's going to take someone with vision and a love for the old series to bring it back.
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Offline piscesdreams

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2020, 02:54:16 PM »
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After one of my recent Reddit experiments failed, it called my attention to the fact that there's a significant subset of 'Vaniers (yeah let's call them that) who feel the shift to make all Castlevania games more like Metroid games is where it all started going bad.

Interesting. I was always under the impression SotN was near-universally loved as an improvement to the series. How does CVD feel about the hate?

While I do think SotN and OoE are the crown pinnacles of the non-linear games, and are fantastic games in their own right, I've been guilty of saying time and again that SotN is where it went bad for me.  But that's not entirely honest because SotN is a great game, it's just a huge departure.  There are three points where I think Castlevania got further from itself and never looked back.

1) After Super Castlevania IV, the tone of the games shifted dramatically and lost the Hammer Horror feel entirely.
2) When SotN came out, it was pretty much nothing but non-linear games after that point, save for a small selection such as Legends, Chronicles, Dracula X Chronicles and Adventure Rebirth.
3) The point where I really feel the series just fully went downhill was when they were relegated to handhelds only for GBA and DS.  Had they stuck with consoles, I think I could have embraced them more.  Around this time, the PS2 games were released and honestly, that's the worst the series has ever gotten for me.  I'll take Lords of Shadow any day over the PS2 games.  I can see the appeal for people, but they bore me to death with how repetitive they are. 

TL;DR, SotN was the beginning of the end for me, but the PS2 games were where it hit rock bottom for me.

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Re: SotN and why it is the inevitable death of the universe
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 11:42:12 AM »
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I love SOTN and the games that followed, but the older play style is where it's at.
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