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Offline Super Waffle

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A Tale of Two Renards
« on: January 05, 2021, 04:16:46 PM »
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Bosses I can’t beat as Saturn Maria:
- Galamoth

Bosses I can’t beat as Android Maria:
- Shaft
- Galamoth
- Cautious Castlevania III Heroes
- Olrox

Who is the weaker Maria?


Offline X

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 09:01:19 AM »
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Who is the weaker Maria?

DX Chronicles Maria. Hands down. IGA severely nerfed her character's power set when he remade SotN for the compilation release. I don't mind that here Dracula X attacks have been restored to her but it should have been much stronger. After all, she is a Belmont by blood so that should have been factored in.
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Offline Shinobi

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2021, 09:57:09 AM »
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DX Chronicles Maria. Hands down. IGA severely nerfed her character's power set when he remade SotN for the compilation release. I don't mind that here Dracula X attacks have been restored to her but it should have been much stronger. After all, she is a Belmont by blood so that should have been factored in.

Belmont by blood but not purely isn't it? Same case as those villagers from Order of Ecclesia, plus she doesn't wield a Vampire Killer that makes a Belmont supreme among other hunters.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 09:59:00 AM by Shinobi »

Offline X

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 05:13:40 PM »
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Belmont by blood but not purely isn't it? Same case as those villagers from Order of Ecclesia, plus she doesn't wield a Vampire Killer that makes a Belmont supreme among other hunters.

It's not the whip that makes a Belmont's power supreme among other hunters, it's the magical properties in their blood. This magic allows them to kill creatures much stronger then your basic undead. The Vampirekiller is an added bonus that compliments their hereditary abilities and further up's the anti. This was made true in LoI during one of the conversations between Leon and Reinaldo. Even if Maria isn't of the direct Belmont line, that won't suppress/diminish the inherent magic within her. Magic is magic. It isn't bound by the laws of physics nor genetics. It is supernatural; a spiritual matter. We can use Jonathan Morris as a sighted example. Though he wasn't using the Vampirekiller until the two sisters unlocked it, he was able to successfully slay monsters far more stronger then he, whereas other hunters would struggle or die. And that was due to his inherent Belmont magical properties giving him a leg up in terms of inner strength and combat prowess, brought about by his non-vampirekiller training. Having the Vampirekiller just helps making the killing of monsters quicker and easier. Another sighted example of the Belmont blood in action would be Carrie Fernandez from CV 64/LoD. And before anyone says that she's descendant of Sypha, know this: Sypha only married once. To Trevor Belmont. Thus Carrie has the Belmont blood within her too which allows her to surpass other sorcerers in terms of magical ability. But that's not to say every Belmont-blooded person is successful at the hunter gig. Dispite his training Soleiyu was abducted and used against his Father. And there is the other Fernandez in CV64/LoD whom journeyed to Castlevania but failed in her attempts only to be used against, and was ultimately killed by Carrie. Anyhoo, sorry for the (somewhat) long-winded info dump but yeah, there it is.
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Offline Super Waffle

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 09:32:37 PM »
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whatchu guys talkin about?

Offline X

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2021, 08:38:56 AM »
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lol. Sorry for the off-topic Super Waffle. The reply from Shinobi was an interesting so I couldn't help myself  ;D
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Offline Shinobi

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2021, 02:44:22 AM »
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It won't suppress/diminish the inherent magic within her. Magic is magic. It isn't bound by the laws of physics nor genetics. It is supernatural; a spiritual matter.
Maria in DX Chronicles is still nerfed from her younger Rondo counterpart but not way too nerfed like in Saturn version, clearly the developers behind the Saturn port of SOTN didn't do enough research from Rondo of Blood that's why Maria moves and feels absolutely nothing from her younger Rondo version(Not to mention her own subweapons are compeletely different but using the same as Richter's), heck even Belmonts while nerfed in every generation their skills or moveset is practically the same, so as Belnades family like Yoko who has practically the same moves and powers as her ancestor Sypha.

Quote
We can use Jonathan Morris as a sighted example. Though he wasn't using the Vampirekiller until the two sisters unlocked it, he was able to successfully slay monsters far more stronger then he, whereas other hunters would struggle or die. And that was due to his inherent Belmont magical properties giving him a leg up in terms of inner strength and combat prowess, brought about by his non-vampirekiller training. Having the Vampirekiller just helps making the killing of monsters quicker and easier.
He's not a good or fair example though, remember that Charlotte is with him and she can use magic spells to aid Jonathan giving him much more advantage to slay monsters far more stronger than him until Vampire Killer is fully unlocked.

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Dispite his training Soleiyu was abducted and used against his Father. And there is the other Fernandez in CV64/LoD whom journeyed to Castlevania but failed in her attempts only to be used against, and was ultimately killed by Carrie.
While it's true with this case, Belmonts while superior doesn't necessarily mean they are totally invulnerable but more on falling or resisting to the darkside or brainwashing, also you missed that Christopher is already a veteran so Soleiyu while passed his training but still inexperienced was beaten by him.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 03:40:22 AM by Shinobi »

Offline X

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2021, 09:18:02 AM »
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While it's true with this case, Belmonts while superior doesn't necessarily mean they are totally invulnerable but more on falling or resisting to the darkside or brainwashing, also you missed that Christopher is already a veteran so Soleiyu while passed his training but still inexperienced was beaten by him.

I never stated they were invulnerable as that would be unrealistic, even in the Castlevania universe. As for the rest it wasn't apparent to the case I was attempting to make.

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He's not a good or fair example though, remember that Charlotte is with him and she can use magic spells to aid Jonathan giving him much more advantage to slay monsters far more stronger than him until Vampire Killer is fully unlocked.

I can agree with this to an extent. He is still a good example of Belmont blood not aided by the whip until it is unlocked. It's also true that Charlotte helps him so that things don't end up going south should that ever be the case. But I was mainly using the single player option game-play as a cited example. But easier to stomach is the story evidence provided by Wind (Eric) that stated Jon's father wanted his son to be trained without relying on the whip, bringing about a much tougher combatant so that, even without the aid of the vampirekiller, Jonathan could still take on Dracula's forces. I have no doubts that Jonathan would have aided Julius with this exact same format of training which is why Julius is the most powerful Belmont to date.

Quote
Maria in DX Chronicles is still nerfed from her younger Rondo counterpart but not way too nerfed like in Saturn version, clearly the developers behind the Saturn port of SOTN didn't do enough research from Rondo of Blood that's why Maria moves and feels absolutely nothing from her younger Rondo version(Not to mention her own subweapons are compeletely different but using the same as Richter's), heck even Belmonts while nerfed in every generation their skills or moveset is practically the same, so as Belnades family like Yoko who has practically the same moves and powers as her ancestor Sypha.

This is true, but from game mechanics more so then in-game story/history. I was referring to the in-game story, but the response does bring us back to Super waffle's question, right? And from the sounds of it you also agree that DX Chronicles Maria is also weaker then her Saturn counterpart.

Well Super Waffle, that's two votes for which one's the weaker Maria  :)
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Offline Super Waffle

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2021, 02:02:40 PM »
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https://www.reddit.com/r/castlevania/comments/kxfrs5/

Do you know my dad?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH.

Offline X

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2021, 04:33:02 PM »
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Nope. Never done anything on Reddit.
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Offline Super Waffle

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Re: A Tale of Two Renards
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2021, 11:12:00 PM »
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your loss.

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