Topic: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real

[BLOOD MONKEY]

Haha, I don't either. And he's the only Patton I know of.

Who the hell's Patton?

General Patton probably. Although he's been dead for many, many years.

Patton is my last name.

[X]

Whoops 

Well I guess i now know two Pattons 

[JR]

I grew up Catholic, but don't really follow religion now (not out of any dislike of Christianity or anything, but just that I don't believe anymore). But I really like this guy. 

[PFG9000]

Nah, the bible and evolution really aren't compatible.  This pope is just trying to be a crowdpleaser. 

Christianity is all about faith, which doesn't require proof or scientific evidence.  So it's okay if what you believe isn't logical.  It was never supposed to be.  If your faith is based on things you can observe and measure and repeat in a lab (not that evolution is any of those things), then it's not really faith at all.

If this makes me a fundamentalist or an extremist, then so be it.

[Lelygax]

Nah, the bible and evolution really aren't compatible.  This pope is just trying to be a crowdpleaser. 

Christianity is all about faith, which doesn't require proof or scientific evidence.  So it's okay if what you believe isn't logical.  It was never supposed to be.  If your faith is based on things you can observe and measure and repeat in a lab (not that evolution is any of those things), then it's not really faith at all.

If this makes me a fundamentalist or an extremist, then so be it.

To say the truth you aren't wrong at all, people are adapting religious teachings for a long time for modern days. It was never something to prove, but to believe.

[GuyStarwind]

Not saying there was or wasn't some sort of science or big bang with the creation but I think if you believe in a god then you'd have to be open to the endless possibilities. As a god he would have unlimited power and could do anything he wanted as an omnipotent being and has no reason to follow the logic of mortal men. The point I'm getting at is as a god he could use any means to do anything. But I'm probably just rambling.

[uzo]

Nah, the bible and evolution really aren't compatible.  This pope is just trying to be a crowdpleaser. 

Christianity is all about faith, which doesn't require proof or scientific evidence.  So it's okay if what you believe isn't logical.  It was never supposed to be.  If your faith is based on things you can observe and measure and repeat in a lab (not that evolution is any of those things), then it's not really faith at all.

If this makes me a fundamentalist or an extremist, then so be it.

So you're saying God could not have made evolution and set events on a course where evolution would end up birthing humanity? Personally, I think that's short sighted. If in the event the Christian god exists, there's nothing to say he didn't create things as they are. The Bible works heavily in metaphors so the 'commoners' can understand. If the book was talking about quantum theory and evolutionary traits passed down through DNA mutations... Well, I think you can see what I'm getting at.

[Flame]

Oh boy. This guy is definitely getting the poison ring.

[Abnormal Freak]

As a god he would have unlimited power and could do anything he wanted as an omnipotent being and has no reason to follow the logic of mortal men. The point I'm getting at is as a god he could use any means to do anything.

This is what baffles me about the Pope's statement, where he implies God couldn't create the universe with the mere speaking of words. If God is limited, he is not God. He can make all the molecules and energy and all the things that make up life and the cosmos but requires a natural progression of time and change to make anything of them? Apparently Jesus also didn't work miracles and cheated his way to turning water to wine, because miracles are magic that a deity is incapable of doing. An unbelief in miracles and the power of God to perform the extraordinary would mean that Jesus also couldn't raise his body from the dead, making Christianity unnecessary if there is no resurrection after salvation.

If God can make the rules of the universe it should go without saying that he can bend and manipulate them in whatever way he pleases.

[theplottwist]

This is what baffles me about the Pope's statement, where he implies God couldn't create the universe with the mere speaking of words. If God is limited, he is not God. He can make all the molecules and energy and all the things that make up life and the cosmos but requires a natural progression of time and change to make anything of them? Apparently Jesus also didn't work miracles and cheated his way to turning water to wine, because miracles are magic that a deity is incapable of doing. An unbelief in miracles and the power of God to perform the extraordinary would mean that Jesus also couldn't raise his body from the dead, making Christianity unnecessary if there is no resurrection after salvation.

If God can make the rules of the universe it should go without saying that he can bend and manipulate them in whatever way he pleases.

"Free will", "God is so wise that he [insert plothole in an overglorified way to justify]" etc etc

Omniscience and omnipotence are contradictory. Not amongst each other, but inside themselves. An omnipotent being has incredible contradictions stating how he can't be truly omnipotent because being omnipotent ALSO implies being able to "be unable" to do something (That anedocte about the too-heavy-to-lift rock, y'know), and omniscience has contradictions concerning free will and the knowledge of the future.

Maybe that's what the Pope is getting at. You have to be truly faithful to overlook these things, and you have to be wise to accept what science has demonstrated.

Do I think this was a shot in the foot? Yeah, kinda... But the Pope needs to appease the people and "somewhat" say "Dudes, stop being silly. Look at this evidence and grow up".

It got to a point where no one can deny evolution or the Big Bang without looking like an ignorant or dishonest person, specially this year which many discoveries about the Big Bang have been made. I personally think that this Pope is being very wise.

(I told myself I'd not coment here. How wrong I was)

[Shiroi Koumori]

I think the Pope just wanted to set an example that everyone should tolerate what others believe in.

As for proof of the existence of God, and all other things related to it, please keep the arguments down cuz we don't want an all out fight that might lead into a thread lock.

[Mooning Freddy]

I think that Judeo-Christian religion and science do not contradict each other if you treat them metaphorically. I heard that religious people who believe in evolution would argue that the fact evolution took billions of years does not contradict the argument in Genesis that the world and all life on it was created in six days, because "One day for God are many years for man".

Personally, I believe that the book of Genesis is a collection of Jewish mythology, a large part of which was ripped off from the mythologies of other Mesopotamian ancient nations.

[X]

I've always had trouble with the big Bang theory (not the TV show, lol.). According to the ancients and their advanced knowledge the Universe was always in existence. The big Bang theory is based on how far we can peer out into the universe. And though we've seen pretty far out there's still much more out there. However our instruments all require light in order to see and this is where the big bang has trouble. With each new innovation for our telescopes we can peer that much further out into the universe. That means that scientists will have to keep readjusting their big bang model until they actually come to the same conclusion that the ancients had. And as for God? The ancients also knew that the universe itself is his body which is why it's always been around. God is eternal therefore so is the universe. That which dwells in the universe is finite; stars, planets, galaxies, etc. are all created, growing, changing, evolving, and then eventually die off which then feeds new life into other creations. But the universe itself has always been. Think of it in much simpler terms as the Greek myth of Atlas holding up the world. That's a good 'a description as any. I don't know about anyone else but this is a rather comforting thought to know there won't be a big crunch (end of the universe). Both our sciences and religions are still in their infancy when you compare them to the ancient knowledge and spirituality. However as they continue 'evolve' so will their understanding of the universe and of God. This--to me personally--is how I feel things are the way they are.

[BLOOD MONKEY]

My opinion is considerably different. I am agnostic, therefore I don't believe in anything. But, as opposed to the people saying god created evolution, I think they are wrong. The big bang theory was based all on science. Not on god. The fact that people are now saying god created the big bang upsets me. It means that even thought the real truth is in front of their face, they cannot grasp it. So what do they do? They bend the truth. They bend the truth because their minds are too fable to grasp the concept of no god, because they don't like change. Why? Because change is different. Just like immigrants were different in the U.S. Just like Jewish people were different to Hitler. The fact that people are constantly trying to convert me also upsets me. Why? Because they don't like difference. They have very little tolerance to difference. That's how close minded mankind is.

[Flame]

My opinion is considerably different. I am agnostic, therefore I don't believe in anything. But, as opposed to the people saying god created evolution, I think they are wrong. The big bang theory was based all on science. Not on god. The fact that people are now saying god created the big bang upsets me. It means that even thought the real truth is in front of their face, they cannot grasp it. So what do they do? They bend the truth. They bend the truth because their minds are too fable to grasp the concept of no god, because they don't like change. Why? Because change is different. Just like immigrants were different in the U.S. Just like Jewish people were different to Hitler. The fact that people are constantly trying to convert me also upsets me. Why? Because they don't like difference. They have very little tolerance to difference. That's how close minded mankind is.

You realize how childish that sounds?

"WHAT? RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE ACCEPTING SCIENTIFIC FACT AND ADAPTING THEIR RELIGION TO FIT IT IN? THAT MAKES ME MAD! ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK THAT WAY!"