Castlevania Dungeon Forums

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Bergaron on December 11, 2012, 12:21:10 PM

Title: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Bergaron on December 11, 2012, 12:21:10 PM
Source: Link (http://www.vidaextra.com/accion/dave-cox-y-mercury-steam-quieren-ir-a-por-un-nuevo-contra-no-seremos-nosotros-quienes-se-lo-impidamos)

Very interesting interview with Dave Cox, in June 2012. It's in Spanish, more or less says that:

- Tired of being "Mr Castlevania". Want to get a new project. (works in Castlevania since 1997)

- Not good for a team becomes "Castlevania Team". Every so often, the project would have to change hands, to bring new ideas.

- She loves working with MercurySteam (gets along very well with them). She loves the franchise "Contra / Probotector" and has new ideas to put into practice with MercurySteam.

- He hopes that after LOS2, Konami lets them work with the new project in "Contra". And Castlevania proyect pass to a new Team. (Warning: already said a hundred times never continue the story of Lord of Shadows because it was a special trilogy that tells a story from the point of view of "Dracula". It is a story in the world of "Castlevania" but is not part of the history of Castlevania.

My opinion: no matter what he says, if LOS2 and MoF sells well, Konami wants money and will give the project to another to continue it ... or resurrected in a few years. Who take the Castlevania proyect now? IGA? new Team? i think new team and i put my money in a PSPVita game of classic Castlevania with 2.5D (like MoF), and of course a Wii U Version of LOS....


Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Claimh Solais on December 11, 2012, 07:57:33 PM
He's been part of Castlevania for that long?

I'm pretty sure the "Dave Cox" in MGS2's credits is him, if that's so.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Flame on December 13, 2012, 10:36:02 AM
I'd like a new team to tackle CV next. (Wayforward? :3) bring new ideas to the table.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: TheCruelAngel on December 14, 2012, 08:39:58 AM
A new take would be nice, though it doesn't always mesh well with the community I've come to found (LoS brought new things and seems to get flack to the max).

I think, for a lulzy new direction have KojiPro do a MGS style sneaking game set in the 1999 Demon Castle Wars playing Hammer. Much like in MGS2 where we play through as Raiden through the main hero is doing awesome shit off screen. Come on...you know you want it.  ;)
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Claimh Solais on December 14, 2012, 08:01:35 PM
I think, for a lulzy new direction have KojiPro do a MGS style sneaking game set in the 1999 Demon Castle Wars playing Hammer. Much like in MGS2 where we play through as Raiden through the main hero is doing awesome shit off screen. Come on...you know you want it.  ;)

This would definitely get my Game of the Year award.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: A-Yty on December 14, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
A new take would be nice, though it doesn't always mesh well with the community I've come to found (LoS brought new things and seems to get flack to the max).

LoS didn't mesh well because it excluded too much while doing too much differently and not in a very original way.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Successor The Cruel on December 24, 2012, 06:10:14 PM
I'll be straight up. I'm not really convinced about the stated reasons here. If Lords really did as well as they say, it's only smart business to continue with a successful trend. I'm personally of the belief that Dave Cox doesn't want to work on Castlevania because he's tired of getting (justifiably) crapped on by fans and others for the strange aesthetic of his game. He has come across as rather defensive and frustrated at times, talking about how reviewers don't know what they're talking about, or something like that. I'm also personally of the belief that Konami doesn't want to continue any further down this road for the same reason, and possibly because Lords of Shadow wasn't the smash success that they might have hoped it to be. Therefore, I think he's being allowed to wrap up his stuff and then being sent down the road. I have a strong hunch that, say, ten years from now, Lords will be known in history as the Castlevania that wasn't Castlevania, but that some people still like anyway. Not the thing that saved the Castlevania series.

You can call me cynical and pessimistic, but I'm only using common sense here. If Lords was received really, really well, we'd see a heck of a lot more of its ilk. History and common sense says so : p
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: darkmanx_429 on December 24, 2012, 06:22:14 PM
I'll be straight up. I'm not really convinced about the stated reasons here. If Lords really did as well as they say, it's only smart business to continue with a successful trend. I'm personally of the belief that Dave Cox doesn't want to work on Castlevania because he's tired of getting (justifiably) crapped on by fans and others for the strange aesthetic of his game. He has come across as rather defensive and frustrated at times, talking about how reviewers don't know what they're talking about, or something like that. I'm also personally of the belief that Konami doesn't want to continue any further down this road for the same reason, and possibly because Lords of Shadow wasn't the smash success that they might have hoped it to be. Therefore, I think he's being allowed to wrap up his stuff and then being sent down the road. I have a strong hunch that, say, ten years from now, Lords will be known in history as the Castlevania that wasn't Castlevania, but that some people still like anyway. Not the thing that saved the Castlevania series.

You can call me cynical and pessimistic, but I'm only using common sense here. If Lords was received really, really well, we'd see a heck of a lot more of its ilk. History and common sense says so : p

I totally agree with that. He doesn't really seem like a likable personality to me..
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: X on December 24, 2012, 10:22:52 PM
Quote
I'll be straight up. I'm not really convinced about the stated reasons here. If Lords really did as well as they say, it's only smart business to continue with a successful trend. I'm personally of the belief that Dave Cox doesn't want to work on Castlevania because he's tired of getting (justifiably) crapped on by fans and others for the strange aesthetic of his game. He has come across as rather defensive and frustrated at times, talking about how reviewers don't know what they're talking about, or something like that. I'm also personally of the belief that Konami doesn't want to continue any further down this road for the same reason, and possibly because Lords of Shadow wasn't the smash success that they might have hoped it to be. Therefore, I think he's being allowed to wrap up his stuff and then being sent down the road. I have a strong hunch that, say, ten years from now, Lords will be known in history as the Castlevania that wasn't Castlevania, but that some people still like anyway. Not the thing that saved the Castlevania series.

You can call me cynical and pessimistic, but I'm only using common sense here. If Lords was received really, really well, we'd see a heck of a lot more of its ilk. History and common sense says so : p

I definitely have to agree with this too. it makes good, logical sense.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 06, 2013, 04:31:47 PM
A few things here:


I'll be straight up. I'm not really convinced about the stated reasons here. If Lords really did as well as they say, it's only smart business to continue with a successful trend.

Well yes and no. You are right that if Lords did as well as they say then one would think they would continue along the model of doing what is best for business. However, most publishers these days have gone batshit crazy and have no problem screwing over their fanbase, making bad business decisions, and just overall being dicks because they can. I'm looking at Capcom, Sega, and Square-Enix specifically. Of course Konami appears to have more business sense than any of those companies so perhaps you're right.



I'm personally of the belief that Dave Cox doesn't want to work on Castlevania because he's tired of getting (justifiably) crapped on by fans and others for the strange aesthetic of his game. He has come across as rather defensive and frustrated at times, talking about how reviewers don't know what they're talking about, or something like that.

I completely agree with you. Part of the reason the current generation is suffering from a lack of new ideas is because gamers today, more specifically western gamers are too stupid to appreciate something new. 1) I am aware of the irony in classifying Lords as something new given that it takes a lot from GoW. 2) I do believe that casual gamers and the companies that cater to them are the bane of the industry. Getting back to how these two items tie into my support of what you have said, the marks out there don't want Castlevania to change and so the moment someone introduces something new they bristle up like rabid porcupines. Hence the reason Lords wasn't as well-received as it should have been. On my end I've been rolling with the series since Castlevania 3, and while SotN is my absolute favorite I also enjoyed other titles like Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness, and Lords of Shadow just to name a few. But I'm an open-minded gamer. Most gamers nowadays are not. So when something different from the norm shows up in a series entry they get all bitchy even if they don't have a justifiable reason for it. This is how many people said they hated Lords despite the fact they never even played it. When it comes to the Dave Cox situation and his claims that reviewers don't know what they're talking about he's probably write. Gaming Journalism has become irredeemably corrupt. So much in fact that it's just like News Journalism. You've got rags like Gameinformer and IGN dominating the industry and if a publisher isn't kissing their ass, wanking them off, or sponsoring them then that publisher's game is getting shit on. End of story. Konami isn't exactly the model of gaming purity but they have a lot more business etiquette than say EA, Microsoft, or Ubisoft, and with that said I've never known Konami to kiss-up to a magazine to get good reviews, opting to let their games stand on their own feet.



I'm also personally of the belief that Konami doesn't want to continue any further down this road for the same reason, and possibly because Lords of Shadow wasn't the smash success that they might have hoped it to be. Therefore, I think he's being allowed to wrap up his stuff and then being sent down the road. I have a strong hunch that, say, ten years from now, Lords will be known in history as the Castlevania that wasn't Castlevania, but that some people still like anyway. Not the thing that saved the Castlevania series.

Totally agree.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Phoenix7786 on January 06, 2013, 09:03:44 PM
I have a strong hunch that, say, ten years from now, Lords will be known in history as the Castlevania that wasn't Castlevania, but that some people still like anyway. Not the thing that saved the Castlevania series.

Kinda like how the 64 CV titles (and to a lesser extent LoI and CoD) are viewed as the titles that could have but weren't?
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 07, 2013, 08:26:17 AM
Kinda like how the 64 CV titles (and to a lesser extent LoI and CoD) are viewed as the titles that could have but weren't?

Yeah I still don't acknowledge the N64 titles. Nor should Konami.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Ratty on January 07, 2013, 08:46:11 AM
Wait, why is this in "Off Topic"?
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: X on January 07, 2013, 09:58:47 AM
Quote
Getting back to how these two items tie into my support of what you have said, the marks out there don't want Castlevania to change and so the moment someone introduces something new they bristle up like rabid porcupines. Hence the reason Lords wasn't as well-received as it should have been. On my end I've been rolling with the series since Castlevania 3, and while SotN is my absolute favorite I also enjoyed other titles like Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness, and Lords of Shadow just to name a few. But I'm an open-minded gamer. Most gamers nowadays are not. So when something different from the norm shows up in a series entry they get all bitchy even if they don't have a justifiable reason for it.

I can somewhat agree with this. Change is necessary for anything to survive in this world, even games. IGA himself brought change to the series, but unlike Mercurysteam IGA did it gradually. He would introduce a new gimmick or something else in the series one game at a time, and he kept the core of what made Castlevania intact. Mercurysteam didn't do this. Instead there was too much change for one game. And the core of Castlevania I felt was virtually non-existent. The combat was over-emphasized on wailing on enemies with a GoW style rather then Mercurysteam inventing their own combat style, and forcing the QTEs down the player's throat. You also have the titan battles that were taken directly from Shadow of the Colossus rather then Mercurysteam doing something more original or angain, something of their own. And the puzzles were just too much. Too much puzzles. They took what was hot in other games and applied it to LoS rather then putting any real effort into it to making something of their own. As stated above there was just too much change and that reason alone alienated many long time fans. Change is inevitable for any game franchise, but for a series like Castlevania specifically it should happen gradually and not abruptly. If LoS  was an experiment then it succeeded in the "What NOT to do with said franchise" category.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Weiss Belmont on January 07, 2013, 10:43:01 AM
Instead there was too much change for one game. And the core of Castlevania I felt was virtually non-existent.

I agree. While I enjoyed Lords of Shadow it is still hard to picture it under the guise of being a Castlevania game. And given how much I enjoyed LoI and CoD it has more to do with the number of changes you pointed out rather than say the third person adventuring. I point this out because some fans out there love to say "Nooooooooo Castlevania should stay 2D. LoI and CoD aren't real Castlevanias! Rage!!!" That was actually among some of the gripes with Lords is that some fans felt it should have been in 2D. My advice to them is wear a helmet.




The combat was over-emphasized on wailing on enemies with a GoW style rather then Mercurysteam inventing their own combat style, and forcing the QTEs down the player's throat.

QTEs aside I actually enjoyed the "Intense Whip Action" of Lords of Shadow. ;D I liked how they took the groundwork of Lament of Innocence and then built on it. But indeed the QTEs were annoying as hell. Especially after the fourth or fifth chapter.



You also have the titan battles that were taken directly from Shadow of the Colossus rather then Mercurysteam doing something more original or angain, something of their own.

Totally agree. If Mercurystream was going to blatantly rip other games (besides GoW) at least do something to wow us. As someone who enjoyed Shadow of the Colossus (and Ico by the way) I felt that original title redefined adventure games and boss battles. If however Mercurystream could have taken the approach "Oh you thought that was something? Check this out!" and if they wowed me then sure. But not only did the fight against the Ice Titan and the Ancient Titan seem uninspired but they were both tacked on and completely out of place. It's almost like they wrote the lost civilization of Agartha into the script just so they could add their own colossi battles.


And the puzzles were just too much. Too much puzzles.

Agreed. While puzzles are a mainstay of CV - at least since SotN - Lords had way too many of them. It seemed that nearly every level had at least two. And let's not even get started on all the "puzzle stages" Gabriel encountered on the way to kill Carmilla. It was just too much. So many puzzles in fact they took me out of the in-game universe and I had to ask "WTF lives in a castle like this?!"  :D
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: theo_ on January 07, 2013, 12:10:45 PM
oh god please not contra. already butchered castlevania, please leave contra ALOOOONE
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Bergaron on January 09, 2013, 04:13:50 AM
oh god please not contra. already butchered castlevania, please leave contra ALOOOONE

Um, Contra is a pure arcade .. not a great story ... just an arcade, I see no problem to make a version. I agree it is very difficult to make a current version of a game like Contra because you can be accused of copying thousand games. (Bionic Commando example).  But I always liked Contra and is currently dead, if it is on platforms like Android or IOS so I prefer to see a new Contra back on next generation consoles than not see a Contra ....

With respect to LOS tell you two things. First I found the best game of the year, was the most played and the most I had fun. Luckily I bought it because it had initially ruled out my shopping list for the notes of the media, but a friend recommended it to me. Second, if it is very good game but does not stop being a castlevania, that's true, I missed some things like hearts in chandeliers, more exploration, a character more, something RPG ... but as action game with good story was the best, I loved it and I'm pretty sure I'll like MoF and los2, but as I like the game related to the world of Castlevania, but not as a thoroughbred castlevania. It's like what happens to castlevania the arcade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEZuvzbK9K8), related to the world of Castlevania but not a Castlevania clasic.. but I have no problem playing it and enjoy it as anyone else.

For the future .. mmm I think it would only work on 3DS or Vita games with 2.5D graphics but with more 2D style .. something like Donkey Kong .. I do not see any way a 2D Castlevania XBOX720 or Play4 selling (Xbox Live and PlayStation Store exceptions..).
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: X on January 09, 2013, 09:54:34 AM
Quote
QTEs aside I actually enjoyed the "Intense Whip Action" of Lords of Shadow. ;D I liked how they took the groundwork of Lament of Innocence and then built on it. But indeed the QTEs were annoying as hell. Especially after the fourth or fifth chapter.

Actually the GoW combat was okay and I liked it...in GoW. But in LoS Gabriel has to wail on an enemy for a long time before they die. In GoW it only took one or two seconds to drop the weakest of enemies. In LoS the weakest enemies died after roughly 30 seconds to a full minute. Ridiculous. It was not a smart thing for Mercurysteam to do.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Neobelmont on January 09, 2013, 10:44:47 AM
A few things here:


Well yes and no. You are right that if Lords did as well as they say then one would think they would continue along the model of doing what is best for business. However, most publishers these days have gone batshit crazy and have no problem screwing over their fanbase, making bad business decisions, and just overall being dicks because they can. I'm looking at Capcom, Sega, and Square-Enix specifically. Of course Konami appears to have more business sense than any of those companies so perhaps you're right.


I think we can all agree that there is not a whole lot of sense on konami's part.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Shiroi Koumori on January 12, 2013, 04:03:06 AM
I think we can all agree that there is not a whole lot of sense on konami's part.

I second the motion.

We just have to wait and see which development team would be passed the CV torch. And hope that would save the franchise.
Title: Re: The future of Castlevania / MercurySteam / Dave Cox
Post by: Pfil on February 02, 2013, 05:03:13 PM
I'm really, really hoping for a WayForward developed Castlevania, and if that cannot be possible, Platinum.

But, of course, the ideal scenario would be for the fantastic three to come back (IGA-Michiru-Ayami).
Hey, we can dream, can't we? :)

Another great scenario would be another japanese Metroidvania, even if the staff is formed by new people or people that previously worked on the series (like composers Sotaro Tojima, Yuzo Koshiro or Yasuhiro Ichihashi, whose works on the series I love).