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Offline Crying Freeman

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The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« on: August 25, 2015, 07:52:47 AM »
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We all know the VK used to go from a leather to a chain whip to a longer chain whip with powerups. But then once Rondo game around, it was just the chain whip. Then in pretty much every game excluding the 64 titles and cotm, its a chain whip.

It's easy to see why this happened: the devs saw how pointless it was to let you powerup since the first few candles u hit are powerups, so just keep the whip in one state.

From a story perspective, it makes no sense. Like Simon holding the leather whip at the end of 4, same with Morris in the end of Bloodlines. Then again Simon buys new whips in CVII, so could the powerups just be new whips that they pick up and use instead of the VK? Even then, later Belmont's just end up with the chain whip. Guess the family ditched a leather whip cus they just keep picking up and using a more effective chain whip anyway  ;D

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 08:39:16 AM »
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Not entirely. In ROB/ XX the Vampire Killer commences as a Morning Star but if Richter uses a sub weapon without having one it becomes the Flame Whip.

Also Julius wields the Leather Whip in AOS (if I recall correctly) and he's hell overpowered.

As opposed to a game mechanic in classic Castlevania, I speculate that with Metroidvanias the Vampire Killer simply takes on different forms which are reflective of the wielder. Of course there are instances such as with Juste (HOD) and Simon (CVII) where certain additions,  whether physical or magical, can enhance/ slightly alter the Vampire Killer.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline X

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 11:00:09 AM »
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I'd chalk this one down to artistic interpretation, and that's putting game mechanics aside. For me the Vampirekiller is not a leather whip. Ohhh no! It's a muthafugg'n 9 foot chain whip with a spike ball (morning star) at its end. Nuff said.
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Offline Shinobi

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 11:35:05 AM »
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Also Julius wields the Leather Whip in AOS (if I recall correctly) and he's hell overpowered.

Julius whip was leather in official artworks but in the actual game it was chain whip, same case as Juste and Jonathan.

Offline Nagumo

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 01:14:35 PM »
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The game's themselves established the whip can change from a leather whip into a chain whip. In all the games where the whip doesn't starts out in its leather form it's consistently depicted in-game as being a chain whip. You can asume that in the artwork, it just so happens to be always depicted in its normal state. No need to overthink this.

Offline crisis

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 05:22:46 PM »
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fun fact about me: i have in my possession a full-size replica of the whip IGA used 2 carry around during his tenure as producer


Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 10:52:46 PM »
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IGA still carries that same whip even when he promotes Bloodstained. :)

Offline Gaawa-chan

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 02:50:00 AM »
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It's a magic whip and if LoI is to be considered canon, it was made with alchemy.  What is alchemy purported to do?

So yeah, it's both a leather whip and a chain whip.

Offline Inccubus

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 06:33:21 AM »
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Exactly, it's alchemically created weapon.
I've always interpreted the different forms / upgrade systems in the different games to be reflective of each wielder's proficiency with alchemy.
VK, CV2, & HC don't really fit that idea because you find/buy individual whips beside the leather one, but these games are also from before the idea of The Vampire Killer as a unique artifact even existed in the series.
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Offline son_the_vampire

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 08:01:50 AM »
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Does seem a bit confusing. Leather whips that only Nathan can spin but Simon and Leon can hang with (I think Simon uses a chain in SCIV though).

The chain whips can be swung too. My guess was the most proficient wielders of the whip could unlock its potential. It stopped Having the ability to power up and I assumed it to be only a chain from then on. I thought some sorta hocus pocus made it into a chain though?

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Offline X

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 08:22:57 AM »
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Quote
(I think Simon uses a chain in SCIV though)

Yes, he does  ;)
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2015, 08:43:12 AM »
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Exactly, it's alchemically created weapon.
I've always interpreted the different forms / upgrade systems in the different games to be reflective of each wielder's proficiency with alchemy.
VK, CV2, & HC don't really fit that idea because you find/buy individual whips beside the leather one, but these games are also from before the idea of The Vampire Killer as a unique artifact even existed in the series.

In CVII both the merchants, guys who sell you the oak stake and the guy who unlocks the Flame Whip, ferryman etc all look the frikkin same. I realise there's graphical restrictions at play but I would propose that for example for a fee, the merchants use magic to unlock the VK's potential/ power a bit more progressing from Leather>Flame.

Also it springs to mind that there's got to be a canon version of events ie either Simon beats Dracula with the leather whip, thorn whip, chain whip, Morningstar or flame whip. My money would be he uses the most powered version; the flame whip. (Just how like Link can use the Master Sword in ALTTP to defeat Ganon, but the Master Sword has levels 3 and 4, which are canon to the Zelda Universe.) Why? Because some merchant who looks exactly like the others but has a slightly different cloak exchanges your morning star for a flame whip... It's a lot of effort to place that in the game when they could have followed suit. Plus this guy doesn't expect
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Super Waffle

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2015, 02:10:09 PM »
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Either one works fine as long as there's a chick's soul stuck inside it.

Offline Crying Freeman

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2015, 07:39:48 PM »
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The alchemy theory is the only one that fits really. If it was just a change on the box art for the games, I'd look past and say the art was just done without considering what whip it was, but in the games the whip changes as well. I'd say you guys are right, it's down to the alchemy.

Offline Inccubus

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Re: The vampire killer: chain or leather?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2015, 09:15:45 PM »
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Does seem a bit confusing. Leather whips that only Nathan can spin but Simon and Leon can hang with (I think Simon uses a chain in SCIV though).

The chain whips can be swung too. My guess was the most proficient wielders of the whip could unlock its potential. It stopped Having the ability to power up and I assumed it to be only a chain from then on. I thought some sorta hocus pocus made it into a chain though?

(On my phone sadly, ignore the cluster that is this post)

SCV4 Simon has the same whip progression as in CV1 naturally.
I thought that about the eventual change into just being a chain whip, too.
Looking at the series timeline it makes sense.
Juste had the whip before Richter and he is one of the most magically inclined Belmonts in the series.
I think it would stand to reason that Juste is the one that managed to get the Vampire Killer to stay as a chain.
Later on when the whip passed to the Morris clan it reverted back to how it used to be until Johnathan got it.
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