Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 04:57:41 PM
Title: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 04:57:41 PM
I'm sure nearly everyone has heard this highly controversial and tactful youtube "marketing campaign" by the Fine Bros over the last week.
Basically from what I've gathered, they're trying to trademark the term and action "REACT" in the context of making videos. I don't know about anyone else's opinion but a number of youtubers who have a decent following have expressed concern over this. A few that come to mind are: AlphaOmegaSin, Tyrone Magnus, Boogie2988, MrRepzion, and Becky Boop. The list goes on.
The issue that troubles me most is that when Ellen Degeneres reacted to something on her own show, they tweeted expressing disappointment that they weren't shouted out to by her.
Their whole campaign about becoming an MCN and having people join them is coming from a place of them taking the stance that they already own the REACT trademark/ they invented react videos. This stance I do not appreciate and makes me believe that they're misinformed on their own ownership of what they're attempting to trademark in the first place.
Personally I believe trademarking REACT would be like trademarking "walking down the street". It's not a concept, it's an action that people undergo daily without even knowing. You surely can not place a patent on something which is so generic.
What's next, people react in every day life and every time they do income is drained from our bank accounts and into the pockets of the fine bros? Not so fine... bro
If I'm alone in my stance, then I'm in a minority of over 1 million, as their susbcriber count is still falling and fast!
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: theplottwist on February 04, 2016, 06:03:14 PM
I think the internet is doing what it has always done: Blow everything out of proportion.
I'm not siding with the Fine Bros because they have done shady stuff, but this reaction to this specific event is way, waaaaaaaay too much.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: VladCT on February 04, 2016, 06:48:35 PM
This went beyond simply shady though, they went after Ellen freaking Degeneres for crying out loud. I'd say they went full corporate greed syndrome on this. For the sake of some perspective, TotalBiscuit discussed it with some others in his latest podcast for the first 40 minutes or so:
Anyway, if you still wish to forgive them for what they've done, then at least don't forget what they did in the first place.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 07:25:51 PM
I think the internet is doing what it has always done: Blow everything out of proportion.
The internet is a warehouse for information storage. Similarly, "The Media" as in news etc is exactly the same type of medium as the internet, a digital format which reaches people worldwide.
Who are you specifically saying is blowing things out of proportion in your opinion?
I'm not siding with the Fine Bros because they have done shady stuff, but this reaction to this specific event is way, waaaaaaaay too much.
It doesn't fit "way too much" when something encroaches on peoples' civil liberties.
How can you place a patent on something so general for the purposes of residual income without expecting the public's backlash? If I asked for a cut of your paycheque you'd tell me to fuck off, probably punch me in the face, and rightly so! Why would I do that? (Why would anyone fucking do that?)
Nobody is entitled to patent something that general, furthermore if you'd read the article you would see they've already placed patents on TEENS REACT, ELDERS REACT and a bunch of other bullshit terms/ actions.
So I ask again how is this being blown out of proportion when it's potentially infringing upon peoples' constitutional rights? Freedom of speech can not be patented, whether in video-recorded format or other. This is exactly what they're trying to do. If I had to bet would bet Fine Bros have had people's accounts suspended or videos pulled for having their material in it. (even if it was within youtube fair usage policies and procedures.)
For a more unbiased opinion I would recommend watching Boogie2988's video on the matter. He makes some very informative commentary and stays unbiased.
Back to the matter at hand:
This is a classic example of people making it big and being struck down by the lightning bolt that is corporate greed. If I'm lying, then my lies and opinions are over 1 million strong.
Anyone watch their apology video? It was a fucking grade A shitsandwich where they just kept biting and biting, saying they couldn't address "everyone's questions" but expressed that they're not trying to coax people into joining their network, but that "we're not saying you have to - it's your choice". By this point in their video, it looks less like an apology and more like it was made out of frustration.
You can not 'grant' someone their freedom because it is not yours to grant.
Seriously #fuckfinebros #1millionandcounting
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: Dracula9 on February 04, 2016, 07:38:46 PM
Hot damn, it hit a million already? Nice.
Anyway, yeah, while the internet HAS made a slight bit bigger deal of this than is necessary (where was all this camaraderie when King tried to do this shit with the word "candy"?), I must say the unsubscribe movement is appropriate.
These guys thrive on subs, and those numbers are dropping like a brick. They tried a powerplay too ambitious for where they were at, and it blew up in their faces, and they waited until well after the appropriate period to make an apology video, and even that was just more condescension and trying to save face (and badly, at that).
Watching the live count plummet has been immensely satisfying, because on the principle of the matter these guys got way too big for their britches, and as far as I care, got their comeuppance for trying to overstep their status with a poewrplay overflowing with arrogance and greed (not to mention idiocy).
I don't particularly wish them ill outside of the subs drop, as comparatively they haven't done something horribly inhumane or evil...just ridiculously stupid and equally presumptuous. I don't wish them personal harm or ill, but a lesson needs to be learned and I believe a massive drop in subscribers is sufficient.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Anyway, yeah, while the internet HAS made a slight bit bigger deal of this than is necessary (where was all this camaraderie when King tried to do this shit with the word "candy"?), I must say the unsubscribe movement is appropriate.
These guys thrive on subs, and those numbers are dropping like a brick. They tried a powerplay too ambitious for where they were at, and it blew up in their faces, and they waited until well after the appropriate period to make an apology video, and even that was just more condescension and trying to save face (and badly, at that).
Watching the live count plummet has been immensely satisfying, because on the principle of the matter these guys got way too big for their britches, and as far as I care, got their comeuppance for trying to overstep their status with a poewrplay overflowing with arrogance and greed (not to mention idiocy).
I don't particularly wish them ill outside of the subs drop, as comparatively they haven't done something horribly inhumane or evil...just ridiculously stupid and equally presumptuous. I don't wish them personal harm or ill, but a lesson needs to be learned and I believe a massive drop in subscribers is sufficient.
It's the best thing people can. It's essentially a boycott, and hitting people in the wallet changes their tactics as fast as they can. The hate is over the top, but the unsub movement is definitely appropriate.
I just hope this could be a beginning of the end for the shady false copyright claims on youtube. I know corporations will be after google and youtube, but it shouldn't be so easy for them to express power against people who are using things legally. Nostalgia Critic's channel got 1 claim from Studio Ghibli, and now they can't get ANY monotization, which is BS!
If someone does a review where they include footage, it's legal because it's commentary and education for the public essentially, and that is put in place so corporations and companies can't do what they are currently doing on youtube. Look at the false claims TotalBiscuit recieved for showing how shitty some games are, and the devs don't want anyone to hear that. It's awful that they can get away with that.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: theplottwist on February 04, 2016, 10:22:33 PM
Who are you specifically saying is blowing things out of proportion in your opinion?
The internet, specifically because of this:
Quote
How can you place a patent on something so general for the purposes of residual income without expecting the public's backlash?
I might be a little uninformed here, but I'm yet to see actual, cold proof of them trying to specifically register the word "REACT". The first time I saw the React World video I was very skeptical since, as Boogie pointed out later, the system left way too many openings for potential abuse (and seeing how the Fine Bros reacted in the past for people "stealing" their format, such as the Ellen debacle, the potential for abuse was a very tactile possibility).
Now, the rage is warranted - the Fine Bros have erected their empire upon snatching free videos from the internet to earn money without giving the video's original owner any compensation, but ALL I saw people rage about was this supposed registering of the word "REACT".
I was skeptical of the React World idea for the reasons above, and not because I thought "they were trying to register the very idea of reaction videos." When I first watched the video, I understood it as EXACTLY what they explained on their second video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHyss0GDvHY).
Sure, people picked on the important matters later, but before they got to that the internet had already blown it in such an absurd proportion I almost rooted for the Fine Bros to successfully trademark this goddamn "format" and rub it on the internet's face.
So, if you registered something very common and started charging me money to do it, of course I would be pissed. BUT this doesn't seem to be the case here as I understood it.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 10:33:58 PM
I might be a little uninformed here, but I'm yet to see actual, cold proof of them trying to specifically register the word "REACT". The first time I saw the React World video I was very skeptical since, as Boogie pointed out later, the system left way too many openings for potential abuse (and seeing how the Fine Bros reacted in the past for people "stealing" their format, such as the Ellen debacle, the potential for abuse was a very tactile possibility).
Now, the rage is warranted - the Fine Bros have erected their empire upon snatching free videos from the internet to earn money without giving the video's original owner any compensation, but ALL I saw people rage about was this supposed registering of the word "REACT".
I was skeptical of the React World idea for the reasons above, and not because I thought "they were trying to register the very idea of reaction videos." When I first watched the video, I understood it as EXACTLY what they explained in their second video.
Sure, people picked on the important matters later, but before they got to that the internet had already blown it in such an absurd proportion I almost rooted for the Fine Bros to successfully trademark this goddamn "format" and rub it on the internet's face.
The thing is you have a number of days before anyone can dispute a patent on something, if nobody had flamed them and if they had shut up nobody had noticed what they were doing, they may have actually gotten away with this.
Dude, read their apology letter or youtube it. It was in the second link I posted on youtube above, Fine Bros have "rescinded" on their patents which I previously listed.
The apology is fact enough, nobody apologises for and rescinds something they haven't actioned.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: theplottwist on February 04, 2016, 10:39:05 PM
Quote
The thing is you have a number of days before anyone can dispute a patent on something, if nobody had flamed them and if they had shut up nobody had noticed what they were doing, they may have actually gotten away with this.
Yes, I saw that, which is why I think the internet reacted in a blind, hate-fueled manner. I doubt the Fine Bros do not understand that registering something common will cause flamewars (we've seen this happen to King trying to trademark the word "Saga"), which makes me think that they were not trying to do what the internet thinks they were EVEN THOUGH the internet later regained its composture and formed actually decent arguments.
The apology is fact enough, nobody apologises for and rescinds something they haven't actioned.
When you're dealing with angry, hivemind gods, you will apologize even if you think you are right just to appease their wrath. You will apologize for saying we breath oxygen if they decide to destroy you for saying it.
On the internet's case, though, there are no such things as mercy. Once it sees you as a threat, you're as good as exterminated.
I love the internet, but sometimes it acts in such a ridiculous manner I feel like I should simply move to a nearby mountain and live in a hut for the rest of my life.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: JR on February 04, 2016, 10:50:34 PM
I heard about this on kotakuinaction...sounds like these guys have dug their own grave. I honestly have never heard of them until now, but this sort of thing ALWAYS comes back to bite you in the ass. Anyone remember Tim Langdell, the copyright troll who went after people who used the word "edge?" Things didn't go so well for him, either.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 10:54:39 PM
I'm not trying to bash them, nor am I making this up. Their loss of subscription will be punishment enough imo.
I've read that when it came out. Still lacks any honesty to it. This bit is a special gem:
Quote
The concerns people have about React World are understandable, and that people see a link between that and our past video takedowns, but those were mistakes from an earlier time. It makes perfect sense for people to distrust our motives here, but we are confident that our actions will speak louder than these words moving forward.
So, TL;DR: The concerns the internet has are understandable, but we still think you're a bunch of retards and didn't get what we meant. We will stop talking, and start doing.
Seems like they think they're right, but are saying what the internet wants to hear. But this might be just me, since I still don't trust their words.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 04, 2016, 11:01:57 PM
I've read that when it came out. Still lacks any honesty to it.
Seems like they think they're right, but are saying what the internet wants to hear. But this might be just me, since I still don't trust their words.
I don't trust them at all, maybe they won't even rescind the patents, at this point what would they have to lose aside from subscribers and respect.. Oh wait..
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: Donvermicelli on February 05, 2016, 01:39:55 AM
I've read that when it came out. Still lacks any honesty to it. This bit is a special gem:
So, TL;DR: The concerns the internet has are understandable, but we still think you're a bunch of retards and didn't get what we meant. We will stop talking, and start doing.
Seems like they think they're right, but are saying what the internet wants to hear. But this might be just me, since I still don't trust their words.
Ineed, funny enough once I read the letter all I understood was: "We tried to set up a system that would let us screw over people, you noticed before it took root, so we are sorry we didn't hide it better."
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 05, 2016, 02:31:09 AM
Ineed, funny enough once I read the letter all I understood was: "We tried to set up a system that would let us screw over people, you noticed before it took root, so we are sorry we didn't hide it better."
It's more like "we're sorry you all feel bad about us making money off you"
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: Dracula9 on February 05, 2016, 01:39:36 PM
They're sorry because they got caught. That's all there is to it. Watch the actual apology video; they spend most of it patronizing viewers for not understanding them the first time and overall don't sound or act even remotely remorseful.
As I previously noted, this is a pretty open-and-shut case.
They tried a powerplay, albeit a really stupid one.
They got caught and busted because they weren't ready for such a play and handled it poorly.
The powerplay blew up in their faces and they scrambled to save face while still trying to save the play on the side.
The backlash was so massive, they stopped trying to continue the side play and put all efforts into damage control.
And this is where we're at now.
Honestly, had they been a little more patient and a little less ambitious, and planned things out a bit more cleverly, this powerplay could have been a resounding success. But they weren't, they didn't, and it wasn't.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: Bloodreign on February 06, 2016, 06:56:51 AM
I have no idea who the Fine Bros are, but hopefully they aren't related to the Venture Bros, or the Warner Bros, and their sister Dot.
Title: Re: #UnsubTheFineBros
Post by: X on February 06, 2016, 10:27:20 AM
Quote
1. They tried a powerplay, albeit a really stupid one. 2. They got caught and busted because they weren't ready for such a play and handled it poorly. 3. The powerplay blew up in their faces and they scrambled to save face while still trying to save the play on the side. 4. The backlash was so massive, they stopped trying to continue the side play and put all efforts into damage control.
This is exactly what happened with Microsoft's XBONE security attempts. Then it was leaked and they were up shit creek.