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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« on: February 27, 2017, 09:06:28 PM »
0
Mostly because it's an idea I'd like to revisit.

I really don't see Chaos as being a sentient entity. I think it's more like a simple fact of the universe; it just is. It has all the planning capability of an algae in and of itself, but living beings under its influence are profoundly affected and can come up with vast schemes that end up benefiting the proliferation of this negative force we know as Chaos. It can't make plans, but those it affects can, and their plans naturally turn to the benefit of chaos.

PlotTwist gave me a really in-depth description of the nature of the Dark Lord some time ago and I think, honestly, this seems to fit. I'd throw the link he threw at me but I don't have it anymore. Dracula, as the Dark Lord, would be more affected by this "will" than anyone else, and so would work tirelessly in its service, but all the planning and heavy lifting would be on him. It's not like Chaos is giving him orders "go there, attack that", but more it would register like hunger does for us: just this base need driving him that he was even more vulnerable to because of all his "rage against the heavens" that he had going on in the beginning. Death, who himself serves Chaos in his own way (and benefits by it) would have likely also taken a side role of "the corrupter" to Mathias in those formative years before he truly became Dracula. That's at least the vibe I get from him.

Which also occurs to me that Lisa must have been TRULY remarkable to be able to stave off that influence for as long as she did.

Tell me what you guys think.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 04:57:48 PM »
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I'll just say this, there's been a lot of talk of "Chaos" in AoS not being universal Chaos itself, but Dracula's Chaos i.e. what I identify as the link between universal Chaos and Dracula (his soul).

I went back to the AoS English in game scans the other day and in the bestiary I couldn't find anything under Chaos.

You can use the Gameshark to obtain the Chaos soul and the description reads as follows:

| NO. 113                                  Name: Chaos                        |
| Tolerance: Darkness                      HP/ 9999                           |
| Weakness:                                Drop:---                           |
| Exp: 0                                       :---                           |
| Found: Chaos Realm                                                          |
| The root of all chaotic things.

However, the in-game script mentions this:

Arikado: The evil in this spirit comes from those who seek chaos and destruction. So we need to cut off the source of the chaos influencing the spirit.

Soma: Is that possible?

Arikado: This castle is a product of Dracula's magic. It's a spiritual world. My point is this...a stream of chaos exists in this castle as well. There is a place where only you, Dracula, can go. That's where the chaos is!


The two contradict one another, this is where I take the in game script over the bestiary description (which is also not readily available without the gameshark). The creature called Chaos to me is the medium or messenger between universal Chaos and Dracula's spirit.

An interesting sidenote is CV Crypt, I'm wondering where they obtained their boss descriptions for Chaos from:

http://www.castlevaniacrypt.com/aos/bosses

1st form Chaos: Consists of Dracula's 3 Souls
2nd form Chaos: Deadly core with a snake ally

Dracula's 3 souls?? Sounds a lot like the 3 components which make up Dominus, also.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Dracula9

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 05:11:36 PM »
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Dracula plays second fiddle to no one but his own hubris. Not Chaos, and certainly not Death. The servant does not control the master, after all, and that is the crux of their relationship. Death serves the "King who wields the Crimson Stone," and nothing more.

Chaos is also pretty strongly implied to be the earthly antithesis to earthly good in the lore, in that the Belmonts and Lisa and all the heroes are earthly mediums of "good," while Shaft and all those nameless reviver priests and Bartley and everyone else atagonistic are earthly mediums of "evil."

Dracula's Chaos is simply the manifestation of that earthly medium--all that "darkness in the hearts of men that gives me life anew" stuff he keeps going on about. It's like Menace, an amalgamation of many sources of evil, only with far deeper and long-reaching roots. It's not chaos in such terms as quantum physics or universal entropy or anything like that.


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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 06:15:49 PM »
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To reiterate, my point was that there's no killing off universal Chaos just as there is no killing off universal Order, though the two will always coexist.

The Chaos Creature is in a part of the Castle where only Dracula can reach, therefore this region of the castle is simply whereby "Chaos" (universal) is channeled to Dracula's spirit, allowing him to resurrect, reach complete resurrection etc.

The creature is simply a manifestation of all of that chaos energy taken form which is also the medium for Dracula's spirit. Therefore destroying the creature is only destroying the link, that's what I mean. The energy will always exist.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 07:53:58 PM »
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You can use the Gameshark to obtain the Chaos soul and the description reads as follows:

| NO. 113                                  Name: Chaos                        |
| Tolerance: Darkness                      HP/ 9999                           |
| Weakness:                                Drop:---                           |
| Exp: 0                                       :---                           |
| Found: Chaos Realm                                                          |
| The root of all chaotic things.

EDIT: OK so I was able to verify the description by another means (using a hex editor). However, I'm unable to look it up in Japanese.

I was familiar with this description but it was removed; It must have been removed for a reason, and I'm betting it is because it was contradicting the story -- Chaos isn't the "root of all chaotic things", but the unwilling creation of mankind which, in turn, gives rise to chaotic entities such as Death. So it can't really be used as an argument, I think. As you said, the in-game script takes importance over the removed description, so we agree there.

However, the wealth of evidence pointing chaos as a creation of HUMAN origin is too extensive. "Chaos the monster" never once received any single importance whatsoever in any of the mentions of chaos that build its nature. There is no difference made between "chaos the monster" and "chaos the source of Dracula's powers".

Furthermore, the novel specifies that chaos cannot be destroyed, but can be sealed. At the beginning it says that the castle was resealed within the eclipse by the church in 2035. And that as long as HUMANS exist and have free will, Dracula's castle can be summoned from their hearts.

The castle isn't being called from "universal chaos". There is no proof on the series it exists as an universal concept. But there's plenty that it does as a man-made entity/essence/source of power.

What I mean here is that Castlevania's chaos is constantly made to be a force that drives home the point of "humans will be their own undoing". This trope is outright stated word-for-word on Dracula's ending on CV: Judgment:




It makes no sense for it to be the cosmological/universal concept if its human action that determines chaos' nature. Specially when it's chaos that makes the spirit evil -- unirversal chaos ain't evil. But the "chaos spawned from humans" most certainly is.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 08:25:23 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 02:33:26 AM »
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Plottwist I appreciate the lengthy and detailed post as always. However, I'm not coining the concept of Universal Chaos as any particular "thing" or trope or concept etc. When I used the term UC, I literally mean that energy that exists outside the confines of Dracula's Castle, the (chaos) realm Soma enters, etc.

I wasn't aware that UC was an already accepted term pertaining to an existing concept, so if you're saying "chaos which comes from humanity", we're actually speaking about the same thing. Therefore I don't believe we're in disagreement about that particular concept. I'm flat out just being less articulate in my terminology than yourself.

Also I do agree that Chaos' description was more than likely removed from the game and therefore they didn't want to use it. As for the "why" this happened, I think it probably would have become lost in translation and too difficult or long to properly explain without being contradictory - as is demonstrated by the removed description.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 05:30:53 PM »
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as is demonstrated by the removed description.

also demonstrated by the fact that we're still puzzled as a community to the actual specifics of what Chaos is how many years later?

Dracula plays second fiddle to no one but his own hubris. Not Chaos, and certainly not Death. The servant does not control the master, after all, and that is the crux of their relationship

I'm not saying Dracula plays second fiddle to anyone here. But let's imagine Mathias, for a moment, fresh from having absorbed Walter's soul/power (depending on the translation). Death is present in the picture, but right now Mathias is raging against God, which doesn't help him, or Death. Chaos' influence, as I have theorized, is less a conscious command and more like an instinct in those affected by it. Death follows this instinct by saying things to Mathias, by suggesting things that now Mathias is more susceptible to in his unbalanced state. Death in this scenario isn't controlling Mathias by any means, but he'd certainly be capitalizing on something that already existed. He'd give Mathias a push, here and there, until Death no longer felt it was necessary, i.e; the Dracula persona had cemented itself. Being that this is happening on an instinctual level, I doubt that Mathias or Death would have even been aware of it -- after all we don't analyze WHY smelling a well-cooked meal makes us hungry. Death is just doing something that he feels is somehow "best", although he's certainly one of the most intelligent characters in the series, no matter his incarnation. He's been shown to manipulate people before several times.

In this sense, he's not so much Dracula's master as a twisted version of Merlin to Dracula's Arthur. Death is Dracula's best friend and confidant, but by the nature of that specific kind of relationship, he's also someone who holds a great deal of influence over his liege with the advice and suggestions he gives. To suggest that the Advisor/Grand Vizier/Confidante holds no serious ability to sway and influence his superior is kind of the height of baleful ignorance. What I am trying to suggest is that Death may have had a more direct role in shaping Mathias into Dracula than what has been outright shown. I do not at all believe he was just passively tagging along for that particular ride.

I'm also suggesting that in essence "the devil made him do it", if the devil is Chaos and Chaos is indeed some sort of instinct that would be difficult to consciously identify and therefore refuse (instinct, after all, can only be refused if one is consciously aware of it at the time). Although given his personality, I'm pretty sure that even if Death WAS aware of the influence being exerted on him, he'd still have done it anyway because he still stood to benefit from that course of action -- lots of people to kill and a best friend to be had. That'd be like Christmas Come Early to a entity that personifies the process of shuffling loose the mortal coil.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 05:33:57 PM by The Bloody Aperture »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 10:01:07 PM »
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also demonstrated by the fact that we're still puzzled as a community to the actual specifics of what Chaos is how many years later?
This is one of those things that's more of an abstract concept which is why I'm convinced that they let the in game script illustrate the story.

He's been shown to manipulate people before several times.

True but he's manipulated everyone aside from Dracula. In COD he was manipulating Hector, in HoD he was manipulating Maxim and Juste to an extent, in SOTN he stole Alucard's weapons, and in POR he killed Brauner and let Dracula absorb his soul. Everything he did was for Dracula's resurrection.

To suggest that the Advisor/Grand Vizier/Confidante holds no serious ability to sway and influence his superior is kind of the height of baleful ignorance.
Except that he's never been  shown to manipulate Dracula.
If the LOI Manga is correct we know (moreso ontop of the game) that he manipulated Walter, but the LOI manual blatantly states that Death serves the owner of the Crimson Stone. One therefore has to assume that Death himself does not have influence over such an artefact. The manual also states hes a being who hunts souls, therefore given Mathias' situation in LOI, one can infer that Death would side with this individual and he wants to hunt more souls.

Outside LOS, name one time Death has not acted in Dracula's best interests, wavered from his subservience or betrayed him. You can't.

I'm also suggesting that in essence "the devil made him do it", if the devil is Chaos and Chaos is indeed some sort of instinct that would be difficult to consciously identify and therefore refuse

The Devil is not Chaos though. Plottwist said this best, the abridged version being that Chaos in the context of the universe is the opposite to order, in the context of humanity it gives rise to people doing messed up shit eg doing evil things.

I personally don't believe the whole Chaos element played a great big part in Mathias' life until his need to be resurrected, post-destruction in CVIII.

This is why Chaos was so emphasized in AoS, because of the Dark Lord's potential return.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline Dracula9

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 10:33:31 PM »
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Death does no such thing to Dracula.

Death serves the King who wiedleth the Crimson Stone, and that King is one capable and willing to cause large swathes of death in his wake--something Death has a vested interest in. His servitude likely stems from "this dude'll give me shitloads of work," rather than any manner of manipulation and hushed whispers to get Dracula to serve his goals. The master does not answer to the ministrations of the servant, after all--it's why those roles exist as they do.

Also, Castlevania has no "Devil" outside of LoS (mook enemies bearing the name do not qualify). The closest thing is the being which holds title of Demon King--as far as the lore goes, Dracula IS the universe's equivalent of the Devil/Satan--the supreme power of evil waging war against God and the forces of good.


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Offline X

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 11:50:27 PM »
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There is a creature that comes close to being the Devil in CVIII. But the game called it Leviathan. Not sure what the Japanese game called it. That, and the enemy sprite is a little different in the Japanese version making it look more like Satan then in the US version which looks like a Gargoyle.


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Offline Dracula9

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 12:41:59 AM »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 02:10:31 AM »
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When I said "the devil made me do it" I was talking in idioms and expressions. Not literally.
Chaos would be the FIGURATIVE devil that influences Death and Dracula to do their evil deeds on an instinctual level, not giving commands, but simply registering as a need, or gut feeling. Much as we feel the biological need to eat or sleep, Dracula feels a biological need to kill and induce suffering in man. His long exposure to that corruption has changed his very nature and because he was on the inside looking out, he never really noticed until Alucard forced him to see the monster he'd become.

I apologize for my poor word choice.

Side note: why Castlevania dodges the idea of a proper true devil figure is beyond me as almost every mythology features one. In my personal opinion, Dracula doesn't count in this role; he's strictly an Earthly threat with little to no ability to affect anything outside this plane, which means he may be the Dark LORD, but he's no Dark GOD. Much as he's stylized as the "opposite number to God", he can't actually ever do much to actually defeat the God he opposes. Of course, this is assuming that God in Castlevania A) exists at all, and B) is the Christian one as has been frequently implied -- though the bizarre mix of eastern and western religious themes and imagery throughout the franchise really means I can't rule conclusively in ANY direction here as "God" means different things in European and American cultures vs Japanese culture.

But that is quite literally an entirely different topic, and I'm far from the best man to broach that discussion anyway.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 02:13:26 AM by The Bloody Aperture »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 03:31:55 AM »
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When I said "the devil made me do it" I was talking in idioms and expressions. Not literally.
Chaos would be the FIGURATIVE devil that influences Death and Dracula to do their evil deeds on an instinctual level, not giving commands, but simply registering as a need, or gut feeling.
 
Figurative or not the part I'm not buying is the "devil" part. If you're saying "Chaos itself is the
source of evil things that occur by the hands of humans" then I can understand. However devil to me means innately "evil" or evil by nature, whereas chaos in itself is not evil by nature, is what I'm saying. However chaos applied to humans (who have free will) causes the evil which exists within humans to be either augmented or focused etc.
There's no 'The Devil' (entity or influence) in the original CV universe.

Much as we feel the biological need to eat or sleep, Dracula feels a biological need to kill and induce suffering in man. His long exposure to that corruption has changed his very nature and because he was on the inside looking out, he never really noticed until Alucard forced him to see the monster he'd become.

That's not true. The thing that differentiates Vampire biology and human biology typically is that Vampires can live eternally/ prolonged lives, but they have to feed on humans in order to survive, which also doesn't mean killing them. (Although some of them such as Walter have been shown to, yet Walter is specifically shown to kill for pleasure and as a game. He also fed on Lisa and turned her without killing her).

Mathias doesn't have a biological urge to harm people, it was said by IGA he lived a relatively quiet life, undetected by the Belmont clan - which was around 300-400 or so years. His vengeance upon humanity only started when humans killed Lisa.

Side note: why Castlevania dodges the idea of a proper true devil figure is beyond me as almost every mythology features one. In my personal opinion, Dracula doesn't count in this role; he's strictly an Earthly threat with little to no ability to affect anything outside this plane, which means he may be the Dark LORD, but he's no Dark GOD. Much as he's stylized as the "opposite number to God", he can't actually ever do much to actually defeat the God he opposes. Of course, this is assuming that God in Castlevania A) exists at all, and B) is the Christian one as has been frequently implied -- though the bizarre mix of eastern and western religious themes and imagery throughout the franchise really means I can't rule conclusively in ANY direction here as "God" means different things in European and American cultures vs Japanese culture.

The CV universe seems to dip into the entire pantheon of Gods/ deities while having the singular and Christian God. However, there's no need to assume when it comes to Mathias/ Dracula because he was beside Leon during the Crusades and Leon being a holy knight it's obvious their faith was Christianity.

I don't believe his aim was to defeat God (such as Satan was trying to in LOS), Mathias rejected and defied him by gaining eternal life so that he could continue to curse him for eternity. He achieved this already when he received the Crimson Stone, which is what started his feud with the Belmonts (to his dismay, Leon not choosing to reject God with him despite Sara's fate).

I also believe that chronologically throughout the series from CVIII-1999 inclusive, he does further exact his revenge by harming humans; God's children. However, this only happens after they execute Lisa. Dracula basically has little to no regard for God or humans during this time. (We do know, however, that he still acknowledges God exists when he quotes the book of Matthew in SOTN.)

It seems from what I've seen that Dracula intends to corrupt the Earth and humanity which God created, rather than trying to wage a war with God (like LOS Satan).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:37:56 AM by zangetsu468 »
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 06:02:29 AM »
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Side note: why Castlevania dodges the idea of a proper true devil figure is beyond me as almost every mythology features one.

It's a Japanese culture thing. For them, the idea of a single demonic entity constantly ruling above all others mostly doesn't exist on their predominant belief system and folklore currently (Shinto). Even the predominant supreme benevolent god can get corrupted and doom the world (as is the tale of Amaterasu -- though she was not called Demon King, she did act out of selfishness). They DO have their evil characters but they are very nuanced. They favor the idea of "anyone can be fucking evil" instead, which is why the name they give to the "supreme demonic figure of the week" is a title, and not a proper name. The term, however, did came from a belief where there was a single "most evil" deity -- from Buddhism, the demon Mara's title.

As I said above, the term has acquired a new meaning currently. Satan IS commonly referred to as "Demon King" when on the Christian context there on Japan to the point of both words meaning the same thing. But Satan actually has a proper way to spell his name, while "Demon King" remains another separated concept. The correct usage of "Demon King" is to refer to the ultimate evil deity of a given story, or of a given belief (in this sense, all greatest evils of other beliefs are referred to as "Demon King").

TL;DR: The Demon King is the baddest dude of the current story being told/current religion being discussed. It's currently a catch-all term for "the one who is opposite of good".

There is also the issue of Castlevania having a myriad of mythologies mashed together (with their own "supreme evils" represented as enemies). So they choose the antagonist character to be the Demon King, instead of placing one mythology above all others by crowing the respective enemy as Demon King.

Also...

Quote
which means he may be the Dark LORD, but he's no Dark GOD.

Wew lad...

I'll just... skip the "screenshot manual > post on the Dungeon" routine and straight up tell you that yeah, Dracula is actually referred to as "god of evil" at one (important) point. If you want I can bring you the screenshot anyway. I just skipped it because I'm a lazy bastard.

EDIT: my OCD was killing me sorry



This comes from the Rondo's manual. The highlighted words are "jashin no kami" meaning "god of evil/malice"; The section of the text is referring to Dracula. This does repeat on the DXC manual aswell.

That's not true. The thing that differentiates Vampire biology and human biology typically is that Vampires can live eternally/ prolonged lives, but they have to feed on humans in order to survive, which also doesn't mean killing them. (Although some of them such as Walter have been shown to, yet Walter is specifically shown to kill for pleasure and as a game. He also fed on Lisa and turned her without killing her).

Mathias doesn't have a biological urge to harm people, it was said by IGA he lived a relatively quiet life, undetected by the Belmont clan - which was around 300-400 or so years. His vengeance upon humanity only started when humans killed Lisa.

You took that too literally. He's basically saying that all the bundle of evil dudes tapping on/born from Chaos are infected with an instinctive drive to do evil. Dracula the Demon King is indeed such a case, more or less speaking.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 07:43:16 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: So, this is me digging up a quote by me from a year ago
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2017, 04:46:20 PM »
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I get what you're saying but "god" in Japanese is used very differently than it is in a western Eurocentric mindset. What would pass as a god in a Japanese context would not in a western one. So, if we can agree that the manual is referring to it in the former sense, then yeah. He's a god.

I think we could call Dracula a God of Evil, but I believe that, being written in Japanese for a primarily (at the time) Japanese audience, they're most likely using it in the Japanese sense of "extremely powerful in this field and emblematic and symbolic of the concept but occasionally not the be-all-end-all of the idea", much as shinigami are referred to as "the gods of death" despite not exhibiting any traits that Christians would find to be very godlike. It boils down to a cultural difference. But seeing as Dracula himself was a Christian, I'm sticking to the Christian viewpoint of what makes a god a god, and Drac himself fundamentally would not qualify for that title under his own criteria. He's at best an annoyance for God. I mean, kudos I guess. That was his original goal all along so well done Drac. But it doesn't make him more a god.

If god, indeed, exists in Castlevania. There's scant evidence to really suggest it.

If there isn't, then we have no actual comparison to rate Drac against in which case, sure yeah he's a god in light of having no objective thing to compare him to. He is at least shown to be visibly stronger than Death (who IS a god in the Japanese sense of the word), so he clearly outclasses the shinigami in any case.

Whether one agrees that he is or isn't a god, we can all agree that he's definitely not someone to screw with.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 06:00:49 PM by The Bloody Aperture »
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

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