Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Lumas]

Okay so let me get this straight. Its been confirmed that you play a belmont and you go into a castle and fight Dracula. The only real major change here is that hes your dad/ancestor. Its 2.5d and offers multiple characters and the gimmick is that you play said characters over different times. Im not seeing really how this is a bad thing or how this is any less castlevania than playing a japense jpop teen being pulled into an eclipse to do battle with some crazed lunatic who thinks hes dracula then finding out along your journey you are really dracula.

[Nagumo]

Six games, not six stories, since Encore is SOTN remake and Pachislots barely count as anything. Maybe only as "alternate timeline to the old timeline". HD had a pathetic excuse for the story. I am not sure, if this should be counted seriously as a fullfleshed CV entry. Those games were milking famous name for what it worth. Castlevania Tetris? Seriously? So, nothing significant was done.

Like I said, Sumac, these stories didn't really contribute anything to the CV timeline, but that's inrelevant because it shows that they still haven't forgotten about the old timeline. They still wish to make stories in that setting and that's what matters here.   

And those games were not meant to bridge the time between LoS or whatever weird interpretation you have, because Pachislot 3 got released after it as well as HoDespair DLC, not to mention that there is a possibility for a CV3 comic adaptation, which means they still wish to cash in on CV media that is not part of the Lords of Shadow series.     

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Im not seeing really how this is a bad thing

The main problems seem to be:

-"We have taken the basic combat engine from Lords of Shadow and dropped it directly into the game." - no sign of understanding that 2.5D platformer combat is necessarily and beneficially different from 3D combat (as expected from a 3D dev); combat resembling LoS at all does not bode well for a 2.5D game since it would be unbelievably tedious compared to typical 2D platformer combat.
-"...with occasional shifts into full 3D gameplay" - this means you will be fighting bosses in 3D.
-Limited to one main weapon type per character instead of 10+ (still salvagable, but tends to kill replayability and beats down gameplay variation, making the gameplay more tedious)
-Experience being "spent" to unlock combos instead of causing level ups that increase stats (there probably are no "stats" judging from that comment, so more variation and depth out the window if that's the case)
-Only an extrapolation from what they didn't discuss and the 3D dev mindset, but probably no equipment, which loses a lot of flavor, weakens the "exploration" angle, and would be the final killer to any gameplay variation or depth)
-If there really are 4 different time periods, one for each of the 4 main characters they mention (2 still being unrevealed), it assures none of the 4 will have much depth. 2 wouldn't be much of an issue. Also, it assures what CV fans love to death: lots and lots of asset reuse.

Unfortunately, style analysis seems to be blotting out any rudimentary gameplay analysis with what was said in the article that could be happening at this time. I'm largely uninterested in the style discussion as long as the style vaguely resembles gothic horror, since style is not addictive, gameplay is.

[Maedhros]

The main problems seem to be:

-"We have taken the basic combat engine from Lords of Shadow and dropped it directly into the game." - no sign of understanding that 2.5D platformer combat is necessarily and beneficially different from 3D combat (as expected from a 3D dev); combat resembling LoS at all does not bode well for a 2.5D game since it would be unbelievably tedious compared to typical 2D platformer combat.
-"...with occasional shifts into full 3D gameplay" - this means you will be fighting bosses in 3D.
-Limited to one main weapon type per character instead of 10+ (still salvagable, but tends to kill replayability and beats down gameplay variation, making the gameplay more tedious)
-Experience being "spent" to unlock combos instead of causing level ups that increase stats (there probably are no "stats" judging from that comment, so more variation and depth out the window if that's the case)
-Only an extrapolation from what they didn't discuss and the 3D dev mindset, but probably no equipment, which loses a lot of flavor, weakens the "exploration" angle, and would be the final killer to any gameplay variation or depth)
-If there really are 4 different time periods, one for each of the 4 main characters they mention (2 still being unrevealed), it assures none of the 4 will have much depth. 2 wouldn't be much of an issue. Also, it assures what CV fans love to death: lots and lots of asset reuse.

Unfortunately, style analysis seems to be blotting out any rudimentary gameplay analysis with what was said in the article that could be happening at this time. I'm largely uninterested in the style discussion as long as the style vaguely resembles gothic horror, since style is not addictive, gameplay is.

Stats don't really give dept to anything. In fact, they're totally unnecessary in Metroidvania games in general.

[Dominus Agony]

This is all good news. Finally a Castlevania for the 3DS (was hoping they'd port Adventure ReBirth for the eShop). Lets see how this plays out. I'll reserve my copy soon!

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I made the thread someone else made a "Just the Facts" thread, Link Here.

Any new facts and information should be added to THAT thread, and keep the pages and pages of discussion about it in THIS thread.
That way people who want 'just the facts' have a place just for that.

That thread is stickied at the top of the CVGeneral Discussion page.

[Nagumo]

They did it in DMC and Tomb Raider

Do you mean just abandoning the old storyline or abandoning the old storyline without any vital questions answered and/or important events never witnessed?   

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

Stats don't really give dept to anything. In fact, they're totally unnecessary in Metroidvania games in general.

If you have stats, it allows the dev to put in ways that you can do things to alter them in multifaceted and nuanced ways--rather than just doing and taking base damage throughout the whole game with a few simple exceptions (like if you get some power up that ups your damage or damage resistance). They're not necessary for something to be considered Metroidvania, but they allow for more in depth management of your character.

[Lumas]

The main problems seem to be:

-"We have taken the basic combat engine from Lords of Shadow and dropped it directly into the game." - no sign of understanding that 2.5D platformer combat is necessarily and beneficially different from 3D combat (as expected from a 3D dev); combat resembling LoS at all does not bode well for a 2.5D game since it would be unbelievably tedious compared to typical 2D platformer combat.
-"...with occasional shifts into full 3D gameplay" - this means you will be fighting bosses in 3D.
-Limited to one main weapon type per character instead of 10+ (still salvagable, but tends to kill replayability and beats down gameplay variation, making the gameplay more tedious)
-Experience being "spent" to unlock combos instead of causing level ups that increase stats (there probably are no "stats" judging from that comment, so more variation and depth out the window if that's the case)
-Only an extrapolation from what they didn't discuss and the 3D dev mindset, but probably no equipment, which loses a lot of flavor, weakens the "exploration" angle, and would be the final killer to any gameplay variation or depth)
-If there really are 4 different time periods, one for each of the 4 main characters they mention (2 still being unrevealed), it assures none of the 4 will have much depth. 2 wouldn't be much of an issue. Also, it assures what CV fans love to death: lots and lots of asset reuse.

Unfortunately, style analysis seems to be blotting out any rudimentary gameplay analysis with what was said in the article that could be happening at this time. I'm largely uninterested in the style discussion as long as the style vaguely resembles gothic horror, since style is not addictive, gameplay is.

Okay I see what you are getting at here but from what I am gathering these points are made out of concern and are really not problematic, the game was just debuted the other day so there is still a lot we dont know "occational shifts into 3d" does not mean we will be fighting only bosses from a 3d point of view it could mean during special combo or grabs the game shifts or certain areas are played in a 3d manner until there is concrete evidence of this it cannot be said that bosses are the only part inthe game where it is 3d.

As far as fighting is concerned taking the mechanics from los and moving them into a 3d manner doesnt take away from the gameplay given that games like mvc 3 which are technically 2.5d games managed to pull off extreme combos very well, all you do is eliminate the over all "next stage, fight" and make the game flow like a regular 2d side scroller and there you go though there are probably better examples of this.

If you really enjoy stats then yes this would be an issue but not every game has to rely on it. LOS did that very well and as far as equipment is concerned. Im gonna go ahead and say since they are taking a lot of elements from LOS then it may be safe to say that relics will be returning and replacing equipment cutting down on the need to purchase and sell items, you get what you need to survive with the relic system and plus offers the ability to return to older stages in the game to re explore areas you could not before which actually increases the exploration issue.

As far character depth I'm still not seeing an issue since the game was only debuted the other day, Trevor is already starting off with a nice story given it isnt really the same old "You killed my girl you gotta die" revenge plot and you are assuming that just because there are 4 time periods means the game will be short when however this game could be lengthy and actually address each character accordingly. The interview did state they would be addressing why Simon is more wilder and barbaric than Trevor, the same could be said for the other two characters.

So in all I am seeing some concerns not problems. The game has everything a Castlevania really needs, a whip wielding hero an art style which seems more familiar than what LOS provided, Dracula confirmed (none of that bait and switch crap we got from LOS) as the final boss, out door areas as well as the Castle being the final area multiple characters tho play as and from what I have seen a lot of returning enemies. The only difference from this and other CV games is that Dracula is in fact the Belmonts ancestor/father (for Trevor).  If you look at it like this Castlevania didnt have much of a plot, it was a guy with a whip going into a Castle to kill Dracula to be brief. No character depth no love story no revenge just a sense of duty to go destroy evil. Other CV games were pretty much the same. CV 3 had the same deal plus it had multiple characters just this game has them only spread out though out a long time period. I see your concerns of what might be but I would hold off on them as of now until more information is provided especially given what MS did last time with their bait and switch routine.

The other issues I'm seeing on here from other posters is that basically a lot of people are upset that IGA is not involved with this game and it is a drastic change for them but change is needed with a series that has went on for this long. Marvel had to do the same with the Ultimate verse, but on the same token there is a lot of IGA bashing (Yes ive done it too and for that I apologize for showing my ass) but IGA did do some things right, some things wrong but he did provide a lot of games for us and there is still a chance he is still working on or is on the drawing board to continue the main timeline. But ultimately what we want is a game that feels like castlevania and so far this one seems to deliver but personally Im gonna hold off on the praise until I see how MS handles it, I'm still burned from LOS, BUT you all need to hold off on this whole this new cv sucks, the old timeline as Negumo has repeatedly stated is NOT gone and what Cox said about this story, its compared to the Ultimate universe and has not stated this is the new timeline and the old one is thrown out.

[MelancholySpork12]

Stats don't really give dept to anything. In fact, they're totally unnecessary in Metroidvania games in general.

They're not the most important feature, no, but it makes plowing through boatloads of skeletons slightly less annoying with the knowledge that you're gaining EXP. Which is something I highly appreciate in a game that forces be to walk down the same hallways again and again.

I think it's a little early to judge the game. Obviously it's going to be another MercurySteamVania, but we haven't even seen the game in action yet. As long as there's platforming, exploration, and gothic horror I will be satisfied. Not elated, but not altogether disappointed either.

[currylemon]

The main problems seem to be:

-"We have taken the basic combat engine from Lords of Shadow and dropped it directly into the game." - no sign of understanding that 2.5D platformer combat is necessarily and beneficially different from 3D combat (as expected from a 3D dev); combat resembling LoS at all does not bode well for a 2.5D game since it would be unbelievably tedious compared to typical 2D platformer combat.
-"...with occasional shifts into full 3D gameplay" - this means you will be fighting bosses in 3D.
-Limited to one main weapon type per character instead of 10+ (still salvagable, but tends to kill replayability and beats down gameplay variation, making the gameplay more tedious)
-Experience being "spent" to unlock combos instead of causing level ups that increase stats (there probably are no "stats" judging from that comment, so more variation and depth out the window if that's the case)
-Only an extrapolation from what they didn't discuss and the 3D dev mindset, but probably no equipment, which loses a lot of flavor, weakens the "exploration" angle, and would be the final killer to any gameplay variation or depth)
-If there really are 4 different time periods, one for each of the 4 main characters they mention (2 still being unrevealed), it assures none of the 4 will have much depth. 2 wouldn't be much of an issue. Also, it assures what CV fans love to death: lots and lots of asset reuse.

Unfortunately, style analysis seems to be blotting out any rudimentary gameplay analysis with what was said in the article that could be happening at this time. I'm largely uninterested in the style discussion as long as the style vaguely resembles gothic horror, since style is not addictive, gameplay is.

Just saying, but if there is no leveling, that will force players to think their way through a tough fight, instead of grinding until they can just beat the boss by mashing the attack button.

[CastleDan]

The main problems seem to be:

-"We have taken the basic combat engine from Lords of Shadow and dropped it directly into the game." - no sign of understanding that 2.5D platformer combat is necessarily and beneficially different from 3D combat (as expected from a 3D dev); combat resembling LoS at all does not bode well for a 2.5D game since it would be unbelievably tedious compared to typical 2D platformer combat.
-"...with occasional shifts into full 3D gameplay" - this means you will be fighting bosses in 3D.
-Limited to one main weapon type per character instead of 10+ (still salvagable, but tends to kill replayability and beats down gameplay variation, making the gameplay more tedious)
-Experience being "spent" to unlock combos instead of causing level ups that increase stats (there probably are no "stats" judging from that comment, so more variation and depth out the window if that's the case)
-Only an extrapolation from what they didn't discuss and the 3D dev mindset, but probably no equipment, which loses a lot of flavor, weakens the "exploration" angle, and would be the final killer to any gameplay variation or depth)
-If there really are 4 different time periods, one for each of the 4 main characters they mention (2 still being unrevealed), it assures none of the 4 will have much depth. 2 wouldn't be much of an issue. Also, it assures what CV fans love to death: lots and lots of asset reuse.

Unfortunately, style analysis seems to be blotting out any rudimentary gameplay analysis with what was said in the article that could be happening at this time. I'm largely uninterested in the style discussion as long as the style vaguely resembles gothic horror, since style is not addictive, gameplay is.

A lot of these are non issues.

Classicvania games typically did have a character with only one weapon, it worked back then why wouldn't it work now?

Fighting bosses in 3d...?...So?... Makes more an interesting sidescroller that mixes up 3d and 2d elements.

Having no depth is a non issue to because you could argue getting new fighting moves with experience points as depth, it's certainly more in-depth then a single slash like the old games.

4 characters yes but they all have their own unique abilities that gives you access to exclusive areas, and each character is from a different time period and it was rumored the castle looks different for each one of them. So that part debunks the asset reuse and why complain about that now? It was far worse in the IGA games this promises to give us a different looking castle.

Also, as far as the combat being meant for 3d not 2d, the article mentions that the gameplay feels great, the only negative is the pacing is off.


Sorry ^ is all jumbled up but your negativity sounds more stemmed from the fact that you hate mercury steam and less about the actual game.

[Lumas]

ALSO

Its 5.31.12

Where is that Dragon?

[CastleDan]

ALSO

Its 5.31.12

Where is that Dragon?

That's what the Spike Tv thread is about....

[Lumas]

Ohhhhh okay.