Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[e105beta]

At best that's the same number of basic maneuvers, not less. And replacing  ducking with rolling changes the basic formula of 2d Castlevania in a really big way, only it seems superfluous to have done so as as having ducking would give the player more control/options during combat and is fundamental to what a large number of players are both used to and many expect. And before anyone even mentions that LoS didn't have ducking, I'll point out that fact as being irrelevant. Not only is MoF a fundamentally different experience, but contextually it can only be compared to others of it's ilk. That's the price for slapping that Castlevania logo on it and making it a side-scrolling platformer. Actually I'm starting to think that attempting to translate LoS's game play to 2D is going to be as ill fated as translating classicvania to 3D has thus far been.

I literally just proved otherwise, like, a post ago. If the game designers don't design duckable attacks into the game, then ducking becomes completely superfluous. If the hitboxes of your strikes cover the space in front of your feet, then ducking becomes completely superfluous. If you can block quick attacks that would otherwise be duckable...then ducking becomes completely superfluous. See where I'm going with this?

You're making an absolute claim that ducking > blocking/rolling, which forces you to make this assumption that "if it's 2D, it has to have ducking" which is not the case at all.

When you get your hands on the game, I want you to come here and tell me all the ways in which ducking would improve MoF as it is designed upon release. Until then, accept the fact that Cox has specifically stated that Mirror of Fate is an attempt to translate LoS into a 2D plane, not to create a 2.5D Classicvania.

[NeoLiza]

The guy who leaked MoF info on 4chan said Judgement was a "send off" game for IGA. But that doesn't really make sense since HoD happend.

I doubt HD was supposed to be any kind of send off. I think it was a "just for fun" type of game to make a quick buck.

[Inccubus]

I literally just proved otherwise, like, a post ago. If the game designers don't design duckable attacks into the game, then ducking becomes completely superfluous. If the hitboxes of your strikes cover the space in front of your feet, then ducking becomes completely superfluous. If you can block quick attacks that would otherwise be duckable...then ducking becomes completely superfluous. See where I'm going with this?

Making an argument doesn't in and of itself prove anything. So you have, in fact, proven nothing. You don't know what the collision sizes on the attacks in the game are. You're making a lot of assumptions about what's programmed into the game before it's even out. They could do all the things you mentioned, but the facts are we don't know that they're doing that.

You're making an absolute claim that ducking > blocking/rolling, which forces you to make this assumption that "if it's 2D, it has to have ducking" which is not the case at all.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said ducking was better or worse a design choice than blocking & rolling. I'm saying not having it takes away from the game's potential and moves it farther away from the rest of the 2D games in the series, nothing more.

When you get your hands on the game, I want you to come here and tell me all the ways in which ducking would improve MoF as it is designed upon release. Until then, accept the fact that Cox has specifically stated that Mirror of Fate is an attempt to translate LoS into a 2D plane, not to create a 2.5D Classicvania.

Any time you give the player more ways to maneuver their character it makes for more interesting and varied game play. Playing the end product that would presumably be design specifically with the lack of a crouch in mind will prove what exactly? You can't prove or disprove a hypothetical game mechanic's worth by playing something that isn't designed to include it. That makes no logical sense at all.

[e105beta]

Making an argument does in and of itself prove anything. So you have, in fact, proven nothing. You don't know what the collision sizes on the attacks in the game are. You're making a lot of assumptions about what's programmed into the game before it's even out. They could do all the things you mentioned, but the facts are we don't know that they're doing that.

My comment about collision boxes was a hypothetical, not a proof, but if you want to go there, based on common sense, history, and gameplay videos, I would bet a sizable sum that the collision boxes are exactly as I predict.

And a proof is an argument. You said taking out ducking gives the player less functionality, but the issue with that is the game replaces it with at least two other functions, making your statement false.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said ducking was better or worse a design choice than blocking & rolling. I'm saying not having it takes away from the game's potential and moves it farther away from the rest of the 2D games in the series, nothing more.

"Takes away from the game's potential". Qualitative value judgement right there.

Any time you give the player more ways to maneuver their character it makes for more interesting and varied game play. Playing the end product that would presumably be design specifically with the lack of a crouch in mind will prove what exactly? You can't prove or disprove a hypothetical game mechanic's worth by playing something that isn't designed to include it. That makes no logical sense at all.

So you get it, but you don't get it.
Games are about function, not form. To that end, maneuvers posess no intrinsic value. Adding ducking serves no purpose, makes nothing more varied and interesting, unless it is given one within the game.

Take Sonic the Hedgehog, for example. The games have ducking, but it there are few situations in which ducking allows you to dodge an attack, and does little more than add an unnecessary motion that needs to be done before rolling. You could map the dash roll to its own button, and nothing would change. Nothing would be more varied and interesting.

[uzo]

+1's for e105beta

You got the idea my boy. You could possibly make a fine game designer some day.

[Claimh Solais]

To be honest, I don't see how taking out crouching takes away from the game's potential. The roll also seems a million times more useful, anyway (granted, I do know that crouching has been a part of the CV franchise since the very first game, but still. Opinions, opinions).

[Maedhros]

The game isn't designed with crouching in mind. There's nothing wrong with it. If it's a good or bad thing, that's enterily subjective. I find dodges in 2D games very, very pointless.

[Claimh Solais]

Completely unrelated to the crouching argument:

Anyone else here who thinks Mirror of Fate's story sounds a million times more interesting than Lords of Shadow's?

[flyingchai]

Anyone else here who thinks Mirror of Fate's story sounds a million times more interesting than Lords of Shadow's?

Definitely. I will say though that the origin of Dracula in this universe was a lot more interesting than how he began in LoI.

[crisis]

too bad the music's still gonna suck DOHOHOHOHO


to be honest i'm looking forward to LoS2 more than MoF

[e105beta]

+1's for e105beta

You got the idea my boy. You could possibly make a fine game designer some day.

I'd sincerely hope so. It is my studied trade of choice, haha

Completely unrelated to the crouching argument:

Anyone else here who thinks Mirror of Fate's story sounds a million times more interesting than Lords of Shadow's?

Definitely. I mean, I like LoS's storytelling, but Belmonts vs Dracula is where it's at.

[Sumac]

As for the Brute classification, that would equate to a savage and cruel person. That I don't see in Simon.

Brute character, not neccesarily should be a savage. Besides, developers have final say about character personalities.

[uzo]

Completely unrelated to the crouching argument:

Anyone else here who thinks Mirror of Fate's story sounds a million times more interesting than Lords of Shadow's?

Not really honestly. Time travel Belmonts just doesn't excite me, nor leave me with the feeling I'll be at all impressed.

[Chernabogue]

too bad the music's still gonna suck DOHOHOHOHO

The music won't suck. It will only be different to what traditional CV games brought in terms of music, as LoS' was. I say that because I love LoS' music and that I'm impatient to hear MoF's soundtrack.

[crisis]

it'll suck compared to the spectacular soundtracks they gave us in the traditional Akumajo series.. back when each song sounded unique from one another heh
i'm betting only a handful of people here will like it (don't care about other forums opinions)