Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[derision]

I can understand why Cox is a bit miffed over some of the complaints. Nearly every hands-on video I've seen has been helmed by someone who has no idea what they're doing. No blocking, no magic use, no attempts to even dodge, etc.

[thernz]

"I hope I have allayed some fears. If you are looking for a Metroidvania game where enemies die with one or two hits...look elsewhere #reboot"

Or any of the older Castlevanias for that matter.

Or most 2D action games in general.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Or any of the older Castlevanias for that matter.

Or most 2D action games in general.

yea, I just love how he likes to take slight jabs at the "metroidvanias" lol.

Despite the fact that the classic games also had skeletons getting droped by 1 hit.

And wasn't cox supposed to be a "retro CV fan"?

Kind of weird for him to say something like that if he is so opposed to weaker enemies going down in 1 hit.

[DragonSlayr81]

yea, I just love how he likes to take slight jabs at the "metroidvanias" lol.

Despite the fact that the classic games also had skeletons getting droped by 1 hit.

And wasn't cox supposed to be a "retro CV fan"?

Kind of weird for him to say something like that if he is so opposed to weaker enemies going down in 1 hit.

It seems like that's quite a strange exchange. The characters are deep and with interesting backstories, but they are also rather weak and they have to wail on the weakest of enemies(even inanimate objects) just to take them down. That, opposed to simple characters of the classic canon, really bare bones backstories, though they, comparison, look like brutes, taking down enemies and ojects with one or two swipes. Like I've probably said elsewhere, I still don't get why it has to be either one or the other, which is the same with the whole JRPG vs WRPG and people say, you can EITHER have open explorations with little to no story, or limited linear exploration with heavy story. For the love of fuck, why hasn't anybody come out and say, "Why can't we have open exploration and heavy story?!". Y'know, *BAMM*, fuckin blow your minds! It's just that easy. Same for CV. Why can't we have deep characters that are poweful and don't look like pussies when they are trying to break barrels. Even if you are stronger while using magic, you think it's worth using it up just to make barrels break faster. That's asinine. You're going to save it for when you need it.

Like I said, why Cox is keeping this other than LoS did it is beyond me, especially considering LoS2. I said this before, but if they pussify Drac from being the menacing brute he was in the trailer to being some vampire that can barely take out human soldiers in 20 hits, it's gonna be ludicrous. It's gonna be a joke. Joke of the year and joke of the franchise.

[Munchy]

I have to pose this question, having read a lot of complaints about Cox's behavior in response to complaints... What did anyone expect him to do? The game's been in development for a couple of years and the thing's likely designed around the combat working a certain way. It's not like they have time and money to completely revamp the combat any time someone complains about it.

Okay, maybe blocking someone for their complaints is a little extreme, but it's a LoS game. Why would it suddenly have a different combat system than the console one?

[Inccubus]

I have to pose this question, having read a lot of complaints about Cox's behavior in response to complaints... What did anyone expect him to do? The game's been in development for a couple of years and the thing's likely designed around the combat working a certain way. It's not like they have time and money to completely revamp the combat any time someone complains about it.

Okay, maybe blocking someone for their complaints is a little extreme, but it's a LoS game. Why would it suddenly have a different combat system than the console one?

Because it's in the form of a different genre than the console ones? That's practically a universal trait in franchises when they make a sequel that switches it's genre. They usually try to adapt their game play to the new genre dumping what fails and keeping and expanding on what works. What MS & Cox seem to be doing here is taking a shoe horn to their LoS system in it's entirety and forcing into a completely different set of physics. I dunno. just seems really forced to me. We'll see how it turns out.

[e105beta]

do I sense a bit of condescending tone here?  lol

hay man. it's the fact that Trevor is wailing his CHAIN whip around & skeletons (arguably the weakest of CV minions) don't collapse after what should be a couple swings. I can see if he had the leather whip, but a chain whip should be strong enuff to take them down. this aint ghosts n goblins where a simple zombie is capable of destroying metal armor o.o; poor example i know lol but still

i hope nagumo agrees..

The only real distinction, it seems, between the chain and leather whips in MoF is that Trevor gets one and Simon the other. If they made them differing in strength, Simon would end up looking like a chump.

yea, I just love how he likes to take slight jabs at the "metroidvanias" lol.

Despite the fact that the classic games also had skeletons getting droped by 1 hit.

And wasn't cox supposed to be a "retro CV fan"?

Kind of weird for him to say something like that if he is so opposed to weaker enemies going down in 1 hit.

Well looking at the comments in the Neogaf thread that started this, it's kind of appropriate. Additionally, just because you like something doesn't mean all of your design ideas have to be lifted from it.

It seems like that's quite a strange exchange. The characters are deep and with interesting backstories, but they are also rather weak and they have to wail on the weakest of enemies(even inanimate objects) just to take them down. That, opposed to simple characters of the classic canon, really bare bones backstories, though they, comparison, look like brutes, taking down enemies and ojects with one or two swipes. Like I've probably said elsewhere, I still don't get why it has to be either one or the other, which is the same with the whole JRPG vs WRPG and people say, you can EITHER have open explorations with little to no story, or limited linear exploration with heavy story. For the love of fuck, why hasn't anybody come out and say, "Why can't we have open exploration and heavy story?!". Y'know, *BAMM*, fuckin blow your minds! It's just that easy. Same for CV. Why can't we have deep characters that are poweful and don't look like pussies when they are trying to break barrels. Even if you are stronger while using magic, you think it's worth using it up just to make barrels break faster. That's asinine. You're going to save it for when you need it.

Like I said, why Cox is keeping this other than LoS did it is beyond me, especially considering LoS2. I said this before, but if they pussify Drac from being the menacing brute he was in the trailer to being some vampire that can barely take out human soldiers in 20 hits, it's gonna be ludicrous. It's gonna be a joke. Joke of the year and joke of the franchise.

And yet, at the end of the game, it's the same result: The Belmonts have slaughtered everything in the castle, beaten Dracula, and stand victorious.

But while we're equating gameplay mechanics directly to story, never mind that in the old games the Belmonts were as agile as turtles and had papery constitutions.

Also, if it means anything, LoS2 is supposed to be open world.

[Maedhros]

Ehhh I'm Sorry but could you confirm This game is Suck because You more hit one enemy???

Come on! that Demo doesn't show anything more than the E3 one. I don't care if I have to swing whip to attack a bat with 100 hits. Because it's not everything for this game.

I Hope this Game is have something , Something For Castlevania fanboy , Something to change Hater LOS Mind come to Accept this game. I don't want people call "Castlevania Fan" Fighting over it because we haven't yet to see evething in this game.
Please Stop Fighting. I Don't want to see it anymore
OK?

In Castlevania games, combat is almost everything to me. Seriously. If the combat isn't enjoyable, I'll just drop it.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Well looking at the comments in the Neogaf thread that started this, it's kind of appropriate. Additionally, just because you like something doesn't mean all of your design ideas have to be lifted from it.

And was it "appropriate" of him to block a fan that had a legitimate complaint about the game as opposed to just blind hate?


Seems kinda childish for someone of his standing to just block a fan over a concern he/she has over the game lol.

[e105beta]

And was it "appropriate" of him to block a fan that had a legitimate complaint about the game as opposed to just blind hate?


Seems kinda childish for someone of his standing to just block a fan over a concern he/she has over the game lol.

Not really, no, but that's not what I was commenting on.

But if you're going to bring it up, then all I can say is that I'm not exactly privy to the inner workings of David Cox's twitter. Some guy on Neogaf said Cox blocked him, but beyond that I'm not fully aware of the situation, and I don't think anyone else is either.

Either way, Cox gave everyone their answer, and quite publicly at that.

[DragonSlayr81]

In Castlevania games, combat is almost everything to me. Seriously. If the combat isn't enjoyable, I'll just drop it.

This. I'm quite aware there are some that DO like it, and if that's so, more power to you. I don't.

[jimmay17]

Cox comes off like a thin-skinned reactionary whenever anyone criticizes him. It really is a poor quality for the public face of a development team.

And, of course, as other have already said, he's not just overreacting to criticism, he's outright wrong about the metroidvanias being unique for having low-hit pont lesser enemies, they have been a staple of the classicvanias he claims to love and insists he's paying tribute to.

But most of all what's pitiful about his whining is that if no one has played the game in any of these demos in a manner to his liking that shows off the finer aspects of the combat, then the solution is forehead-slappingly simple: release your own damn video showing off the combat! You're the one with the master of the game, genius!

[Dremn]

I just hope we get more 2D Castlevanias when the LoS series is finished. There's not much else to do, and I really don't want to see MoF become the norm for future 2D Castlevanias either.

[Kingshango]

This whole situation could be fix if Cox and Mercurysteam just listen to the legit complaints and use this 5 month delay period to address these problems and say "Hey we listened see, everythings cool."

But he gave his answer already "Don't like out strong, beefy, no selling enemies and object's? Either deal with it or go play thoses Metroidvania's you love so much for the 100,000th time." #Combovaniatill2014

[DragonSlayr81]

I just hope we get more 2D Castlevanias when the LoS series is finished. There's not much else to do, and I really don't want to see MoF become the norm for future 2D Castlevanias either.

This!!! I hope, and it might sound like an asshole wish, MoF's style of 2D-vania, becomes forgotten and if(hopefully "if")we get more 2D CVs in the future(fingers crossed), they are nothing like the whole LoS/MoF "takes 100 hits to break a wooden fence". It's one of those gameplay ideas, IMO, with the LoS, should be contained to just THAT series, and once LoS2 seals that series away, we won't see it again.

This whole situation could be fix if Cox and Mercurysteam just listen to the legit complaints and use this 5 month delay period to address these problems and say "Hey we listened see, everythings cool."

But he gave his answer already "Don't like out strong, beefy, no selling enemies and object's? Either deal with it or go play thoses Metroidvania's you love so much for the 100,000th time." #Combovaniatill2014

I'd actually respect him more if he DID listen. I mean, I'm not asking for the guy to go doormat mode, just take some of the complaints(which were really LoS's complaints to begin with) into consideration. Doing something like that goes a long way into bridging LoS fans and non-LoS fans. It's gesture could gain more non-LoS fan support. It's like saying, "We appreciate you too. Let's see if we could make this game BETTER and fix where we've gone wrong!".