Topic: How popular IS Castlevania?

[Nagumo]

Also, I don't think video games and food are the same kind off market. You can't compare the two. 

[crisis]

I eat video games while playing food all the time 

[Nagumo]

The perfect future: games are packaged with food.       

[e105beta]

Both food and games are products based off of personal enjoyment, so I'd say the analogy works.

There's only so many times a business is going to dump money into spicing up a product that nobody wants. If everybody is buying their steak (Metal Gear) but not their chicken (Castlevania) even after attempts at making it new, they might not eliminate the chicken from the menu, but they're going to not be spending much time on making it good.

Also, bringing in fish and other foods is essentially irrelevant to the point I'm making considering that Konami does have other franchises. People just don't buy them as much. I mean, Konami is trying to sell Castlevania in different ways. Judgment, Encore of the Night, and Harmony of Despair are perfect examples of this. The point is that when people go to Konami for dinner, they really want to eat their world-class steak. Konami's trying to make their chicken better, but people just might not bite.

[Nagumo]

Both food and games are products based off of personal enjoyment, so I'd say the analogy works.

No, they literary are not the same thing. Both of the markets they belong to work differently. Its basic economics really.

[e105beta]

No, they literary are not the same thing. Both of the markets they belong to work differently. Its basic economics really.

Of course they're not literally the same thing. The markets work differently, but both restaurant food and video games are a luxury good, and thus both follow the same rules of economics.

[Nagumo]

Food is homogeneous, every chicken is the same whereas the Castlevania series is heterogenous, its a totally unique series with its own stamp on it. You can't change your chicken, not to mention that I wouldn't be smart to not sell it anymore completely since all your buyers that you have left for that product would go to your concurrents. Which isn't the smartest move.

With the Castlevania Konami has a monopoly since its completely unique (comparing a Castlevania game to any other random video game is the same as saying every kind of food is the same) and besides it not not selling all that great they were still making profit since they kept pumping out one or two games every year before and even more after if you still remember Castlevania was releasing/announcing spin off titles and media like crazy in 08. If you look purely at the DS titles sales data they were doing fine with the two first games.  OoE's decline in sold copies should be ignored because it was made after LoS started developement in 07. Or at least before the plans for the reboot were made. With a monopoly and moderate sales Konami has no reason to just give Castlevania the boot. In fact its quite stupid.

Therefore the only reason why Konami wants Castlevania to reboot is to turn it into a triple A series. Thus your logic is flawed.

[e105beta]

Food is homogeneous, every chicken is the same whereas the Castlevania series is heterogenous, its a totally unique series with its own stamp on it. You can't change your chicken, not to mention that I wouldn't be smart to not sell it anymore completely since all your buyers that you have left for that product would go to your concurrents. Which isn't the smartest move.

With the Castlevania Konami has a monopoly since its completely unique (comparing a Castlevania game to any other random video game is the same as saying every kind of food is the same) and besides it not not selling all that great they were still making profit since they kept pumping out one or two games every year before and even more after if you still remember Castlevania was releasing/announcing spin off titles and media like crazy in 08. If you look purely at the DS titles sales data they were doing fine with the two first games.  OoE's decline in sold copies should be ignored because it was made after LoS started developement in 07. Or at least before the plans for the reboot were made. With a monopoly and moderate sales Konami has no reason to just give Castlevania the boot. In fact its quite stupid.

Therefore the only reason why Konami wants Castlevania to reboot is to turn it into a triple A series. Thus your logic is flawed.

Orange chicken is not the same as lemon chicken, and chicken fondue is not the same as a chicken breast sandwich. Case in point.

And how does that make my logic flawed? "Doing fine" is your opinion. Clearly Konami disagrees and believes Castlevania should be a AAA title. I'm wagering that if it fails to make that jump, Castlevania will be permenantly stuck in low budget spin-off land.

[Nagumo]

Orange chicken is not the same as lemon chicken. Case in point.

Yeah like only one store got the brilliant idea of adding flavours and what not to their chicken (or prepraring it differently) and other stores still have to catch up. That is all inrelevant, chicken is still homogeneous.       

And how does that make my logic flawed? "Doing fine" is your opinion. Clearly Konami disagrees and believes Castlevania should be a AAA title. I'm wagering that if it fails to make that jump, Castlevania will be permenantly stuck in low budget spin-off land.

Oh I see I thought you meant it was the reason why the reboot was made in the first place as some claim.   

[e105beta]

Yeah like only one store got the brilliant idea of adding flavours and what not to their chicken (or prepraring it differently) and other stores still have to catch up. Flavour doesn't matter, chicken is still homogeneous.

I'm talking restaurants. You're talking stores. Why do you think a person would prefer chicken from one restaurant over another if it was all homogeneous?

[Nagumo]

Seems I interprented that wrong though the logic behind it still doesn't make sense. There is nothing that prevents them from trying as many recipes as they want (if we just talk about the way it is prepared rather than quality) since well uh chicken can taste good if you prepare it right. Nothing would prevent them from trying as many times as they want since they are still making profite with all their other dishes. Its not like people don't buy anything if they don't like the chicken. You got also got Metal Gear stake.

[Sumac]

Nothing would prevent them from trying as many times as they want since they are still making profite with all their other dishes.

Except if the series didn't sell well even after few reimagings, Konami could possibly abandoned for some time (not forever of course) or use it as cheap sticker that can be put on anything. Though this already happened with Medal and Pachislots. Besides tasty chicken could done by a single human in one day. Video games require team, time and money.
So if franchise fail after several attempts - Konami could possibly put it on hiatus, because they simply don't want to spend their money and people on creating games no-one interested in.

And catering to the fans is a generally bad idea. Sooner or later, series will be in desperate need of changes and so-called fans will sink new formula, just because it was never done before and in their mind it is not true part of the series or some other nonsense.

[Nagumo]

EDIT: Wait, I condradicted myself with the last sentence of my previous post and I have no idea why I said that. Talk about mindtwists. Otherwise the post makes perfect sense.

[Innovator]

I basically agree with shelverton's assessment. Mario and Zelda in terms of notoriety between about 1987 and 1992. However, after the success of Super Castlevania IV, there was nothing that really hit big in the consciousness of gamers until Symphony of the Night.

Hi everybody. Thanks for this subject.

Basically, I think as RichterB, many thanks for this big history explanation. It's quite right, what you say. And more interesting than difference between chicken and video games, sorry for Nagumo and e105beta.

I think hardcore fans are ready for changes since ages. SOTN was a very good game. COTM too. But since then, Castlevania games are always the same, minus the difficulty. I don't want to explain again why Harmony was a deception. The worst were the 3 DS games, which are basically upgrades copies of GBA games, which were already less good than SOTN and COTM. What can I say more ?

In my view, Shattered Soldier was a good change for Contra series. Ocarina of Time was a very good game too. Ninja Gaiden was an excellent reborn for the series. And finally, Resident Evil 4 which offered a total change for the series is probably one of the best. Super Mario 64 and Galaxy are maybe the 2 best Mario as well.

= every major series can reborn in a new way / new dimension / new gameplay.

As someone said, no changes is BAD. I agree. What hardcore fans do no want anymore, is : continuity in mediocrity. Castlevania are not medium game. They used to be TOP games, HITS for every release and ranked CULT games. There is no more innovation in actual Castlevania games. No more innovation since...2002.

So yes, it's time for big changes and even long-date fans like me need and EXIGE big changes. The completely renew style with Lords of Shadow, can be the best thing the series ever had since many years. I understand why IGA fans want other games made by him : they correspond to the type of guys who absolutely rejects any innovation and changes. They should see what does concurrence has to offer since Next Gen machines.

Actual Castlevania directed by actual producer are less good in many ways than concurrence, so it's time for change.

Thanks Konami and Cox for bringing new elements and new Gameplay to the series. We'll see if LOS sales will be huge or not. I have confidence in gamers. An all new database of fans can be created with this reborn. I hope so to see new & more radical changes in Castlevania saga in the future !

(Sorry for the long post)

[Kale]

As someone said, no changes is BAD. I agree.

Correction, no changes is bad by default.